feelings regarding roy keane

[thecorner]

when brian kerr took over i bet most of the anti-roy keane brigade here were like the rest of the country hoping he could change roy keanes mind. bet he wasnt a traitor then

AND DONT BULLSH!T

[Gary]

Originally posted by patsh
.
You dismiss somebody else's opinion, because you say it's probably based on "well he is from Cork like", and then you go to prove the sound basis of your own opinion by posting an inane ditty, containing a rascist slur and a contradiction in it's last two lines.


Right so. I didnt exactly dismiiss everyone else opinion, merely Coners because all i can see from him is hacknied barstool cliches, with absolutely nothing to back them up.

As for everyone in the pro roy camp , well i didnt dismiss them, i just chose to ignore their comments!!!! I know that alot of them are very valid, and it is totally a matter of ones choice on whetjer to agree or not. I can see where people are coming from, but what i cannot understand is why people think that RK is a legend, the ultimate pro, when in effect he was the master of his own destiny.

Not getting into it again Pat, i know u will just ignore everyting i say anyway.

If i have an opinion it is this. RK and MMc are 2 overpaid idiots who let their own super egos get in the way of the true cause last summer. MMc was wrong calling a public meeting, Roy was wrong in his reaction (it would have been ok ghad he waited til AFTER the world cup). can u at least agree with me on that????????


:rolleyes:

[Gary]

Originally posted by thecorner
when brian kerr took over i bet most of the anti-roy keane brigade here were like the rest of the country hoping he could change roy keanes mind. bet he wasnt a traitor then

AND DONT BULLSH!T


Your point being?????

:rolleyes:

[tiktok]

Originally posted by Gary
Staunton quit because he is past international football.

He says he is, it's still only a year since he played very well at the World Cup, he's still playing football at as high a level or higher level than many of the players that are called up. Why not just leave himself available for selection in case of injury crises.


Originally posted by Gary
Kiely quit becoz he was never going to be first choice.

Which is pathetic, here we have a premiership keeper (and a very good one) who has abandoned the national side because he's not first choice. Where are all the arguments about being proud to pull on the irish shirt, even if it's as a sub against Kiely.. as opposed to his primary school "it's my ball and i'm going home" sentiments. Now there's a traitor for you....

Shearer is also a good yardstick, he left to prolong his career, and it's worked, he's in better form than for a while (making light of the suggestions that the six games a year would have had no effect), until Rooney england had to persist with Heskey as a replacement. so basically, probably englands best option in his position retired leaving a hole they still haven't properly filled. sounds like an accurate parallel regardless of nationality.

[patsh]

Originally posted by Gary
Right so. I didnt exactly dismiiss everyone else opinion,
My post said "somebody else's opinion"
*********************************

Originally posted by Gary
merely Coners because all i can see from him is hacknied barstool cliches, with absolutely nothing to back them up.

as opposed to the following hacknied barstool cliche with absolutely nothing to back it up?

Originally posted by Gary
Roy Keane is a traitor
He wears a traitors cap
And when he went to Saipan
He didnt fancy that
He could have captained Ireland, In Korea and Japan
but he is just a mayfield knacker
AND NOT AN IRISH MAN

**********************


Originally posted by Gary
Not getting into it again Pat, i know u will just ignore everyting i say anyway.
This from the same poster who posted "As for everyone in the pro roy camp , well i didnt dismiss them, i just chose to ignore their comments!!!!"

How am I ignoring you, if I replied to you ?
Anymore constructive criticism I can offer?

[carnstein]

Well its not much point being "Irelands greatest ever footballer"
if your not actually playing for Ireland is it?
He might as well be playing for Rangers for all the use he is.


This is the same Roy Keane who needs an pain-killing injection before every game and does not train for 2 days after a game. His body is in ****, Shearer retired from international football for the same reason and it IS a valid reason.

Roy Keane battered his body for years in the futile persuit of success for no-hopers and when we were on the verge of that success it was taken away from him. Its *******s like you who forget what he did for Ireland, more than any other footballer in the history of our nation.

[tiktok]

That's the problem with this debate though Conor, and it's likely to be for a while.
Both sides can, as i said earlier, make decent arguments but at best incomplete ones, because only a few know exactly what happened in Japan, and only one knows what's going on in Roy Keane's head (and it's not Dunphy:D ).
People on both sides get personal with it, because we don't have all the facts, and all have at some stage to make the jump that includes personal feelings/opinions/ prejudices (be they against Keane, McCarthy or the FAI) , and Roy seems to elicit passionate support or else vitriol depending on one's own feelings.
Makes for long threads though.....

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74
I agree on the point that we may never agree and it is just a game of football. But I think we can only judge him by what he has and hasn't done on a pitch. I don't know how we can judge him as a person, because we don't know him.

Then again, the outbursts, the rooming alone, the attitude, the holding a grudge for years and trying to end a players career, the apparent dislike of his own fans at Old Trafford - I know he may give the odd cheque to Rockmount and go to a hospital (heck, what footballer doesn't), but I don't know if I would want to know him...

Nice dog though...if a bit on the tired side....:D :D :D

I think that is the main point we will diagree on I feel the man should be judged on what he has done, not just on one part of his life, if we are to judge him on his football I think we need be of equal standing or his peer in order to judge him in terms of footballing.

[liamon]

Originally posted by Dricky
.......... if we are to judge him on his football I think we need be of equal standing or his peer in order to judge him in terms of footballing.
Nonsense.
What's the point in having a website like Foot.ie if we're not going to make judgements and air our opinions?

[Duncan Gardner]

Liamon's right. I read books and occasionally earn a few pennies as a jobbing hack. This obviously makes me better qualified to assess any ghosted footballer's book, than the 'authors' themselves.

In RK's effort, it was obvious that large sections of the book were ****-stirring by Dum-dum, and that Roy hadn't bothered to read them/ it. For example, they make NI-RoI in 1993 sound like a rerun of the battle of Aughrim; when in reality RK has never shown any previous interest in commenting on the tension around this particular fixture. If he had, I'm sure that big Norm Whiteside (a regualr dining companion in the pubs of Altrincham) would have provided briefing :)

[Bluebeard]

Originally posted by carnstein
This is the same Roy Keane who needs an pain-killing injection before every game and does not train for 2 days after a game. His body is in ****, Shearer retired from international football for the same reason and it IS a valid reason.

Roy Keane battered his body for years in the futile persuit of success for no-hopers and when we were on the verge of that success it was taken away from him. Its *******s like you who forget what he did for Ireland, more than any other footballer in the history of our nation.

Ok. Intriguing post. Not going to comment on it in any great length, just two words.

PAUL MCGRATH.

And anyway, as everyone knows, Terry Phelan is Ireland's ever player.:D :D

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74
Spot on. This whole site, like most sites, is comprised of opinions and conjecture. We share opinions on games, refs, clubs, fans, politics, music, whatever, and one cannot rule out an opinion on Keane because we haven't played beside him.

For what it's worth I thought Keane was a very good midfielder, for a player with limited talent. Could be inspirational, though as Man U's victory without him in the CL showed he was not indispensible. Had none of the technical ability of those around him at Man U, but perhaps had a desire to win that outstripped many others.



Okay if that’s the case he's a good footballer better then the petty people putting him down for looking after his best interests his family and his job.




Nonsense.
What's the point in having a website like Foot.ie if we're not going to make judgements and air our opinions?

Whats the point in airing an opinion if its one-sided. look at what was written by everyone including Roy Keane and McM and tell me that he did wrong.

On this board there is no problem listing how he turned on Ireland etc but the fact is and it is a fact.... he got fired.

Another fact is he brought Ireland through so many games.

Basically I am saying unless people are willing to look at the truth how can they give an opinion that is fair true and one that reflects one beliefs and not just shouting because we feel bitter that the best player we had decided to call it a day.

Therefore unless the facts are taken into account (and these ARE fact everyone agrees with) then he will never get a fair trial.

If people are so twisted with hate for Keane because he walked away from Ireland have they blinkers and will not admit that there is a possibility that this was not his doing.

If it had been Gary Breen had caused the fuss would he have been treated any better.
'judgements and air our opinions' now just to my final point how many people would judge someone without taking the facts and not the hear say.

If you still think that Keane was wrong to put his family and his job first and say goodbye to international football well then that is your choice.

Do you feel the same about Staunton, he retired and is still going.

Can you say if you were set up by your boss that you could sit and take it?

No people look at this either through rose tinted glasses or with daggers in their eye. If the opinion was one that was balanced I'd say well and good but the we hate keane camp have done nothing but look at one side. The 'opinion' is one of misinformation regurgitated as if the person was suffering with verbal diarrhoea. There has been no proof to and claims here.

I'm not telling people to listen to me I'm saying look at the facts form your own opinion, support your opinion with fact but don't regurgitate what others write.

Tell me you wouldn't have quit,if you wouldn't to that I say fair dues I know I for one would put Family first.

If people are not willing to look at the facts and give a balanced view on what happened how can that be considered 'opinions and conjecture.'

The allegations are unfounded yet they are brought up again and again and again, is that an opinion or a mantra? If its an opinion how did you come about this, where is your proof.

If someone can prove the allegations to be true I will listen but the only if its backed up.

The attacks on Roy Keane have been about him in and out of football, therefor he should be jugded in and out of football, otherwise by his peers, tell me you've been objective in your views and how, you never know you may sway me but do it with fact.

[John83]

Originally posted by tiktok
{Staunton} says he is {past international football}, it's still only a year since he played very well at the World Cup, he's still playing football at as high a level or higher level than many of the players that are called up. Why not just leave himself available for selection in case of injury crises.

...here we have a premiership keeper (and a very good one) who has abandoned the national side because he's not first choice. Where are all the arguments about being proud to pull on the irish shirt, even if it's as a sub against Kiely.. as opposed to his primary school "it's my ball and i'm going home" sentiments. Now there's a traitor for you....

Shearer is also a good yardstick, he left to prolong his career, and it's worked, he's in better form than for a while (making light of the suggestions that the six games a year would have had no effect), until Rooney england had to persist with Heskey as a replacement. so basically, probably englands best option in his position retired leaving a hole they still haven't properly filled. sounds like an accurate parallel regardless of nationality.


Superb post. I have had no time for Kiely ever since his retirement. If every player had his attitude, we'd have lost Staunton years ago - which would have left us in a spot of bother in the last World Cup, wouldn't it? Staunton's retirement is regretable, though you can understand him retiring. I'd be surprised if he refused a call-up if we did have an injury crisis, retired or not.

Shearer's retirement is very much comparable to Keane's, the only major differance being Keane's appauling timing and ungraceful exit. Shearer bowed out quietly after Euro 2000.

I hold the actual retirement against neither player (or would, if I cared tuppence for the England team), but the circumstances of Keane's retirement do annoy me.


Originally posted by carnstein
This is the same Roy Keane who needs an pain-killing injection before every game and does not train for 2 days after a game. His body is in ****, Shearer retired from international football for the same reason and it IS a valid reason.

Roy Keane battered his body for years in the futile persuit of success for no-hopers and when we were on the verge of that success it was taken away from him. Its *******s like you who forget what he did for Ireland, more than any other footballer in the history of our nation.

:rolleyes: Sure. Guys like McGrath and Giles never cared about the shirt. Sure Brady wasn't fit to lick Keano's boots. :rolleyes:

I don't, and won't forget what Keane did for the NT, but I won't let that get him off the hook for everything he does.

[liamon]

Originally posted by Dricky

Whats the point in airing an opinion if its one-sided. ......

On this board there is no problem listing how he turned on Ireland etc but the fact is and it is a fact.... he got fired

OK, first off, all opinion tends to be one sided. You assess the facts and then form an opinion which is that you support one side of the argument or the other. If you don't come out on one side or the other, you pretty much don't have an opinion.

Secondly, I am on Keane's side, but I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he got fired. He had an argument with a very stupid manager, but I can't see how that can be viewed as getting fired. If so, I may as well pack my bags, coz I've been fired dozens of times from my job.



Originally posted by Dricky
.......The attacks on Roy Keane have been about him in and out of football, therefor he should be jugded in and out of football, otherwise by his peers,

Why by his peers? Why not us mere mortals? Are we incapable of digesting information and forming an opinion? Granted, there are idiots on foot.ie, but there are also some people that appear to be able to use some form of reason. If yo utruely believe we can't judge players, then why bother with www.foot.ie at all?

[Gary]

One thing kinda confuses me wih the whole thing, and that is this:

Did Keane not say before the WC that he was finished w international football after the World Cup anyway?????????

I dont dislike him for quitting international ball, he did that to prolong his career, nothing else, no matter who is manager. I just think that if he spent more time concentrating on his football, and less making ridiculous statements, he would be an even better footballer?

????????????

[John83]

Originally posted by Gary
One thing kinda confuses me wih the whole thing, and that is this:

Did Keane not say before the WC that he was finished w international football after the World Cup anyway?????????


I think he floated the idea. Don't remember if he announced a firm decision on it prior to Saipan.

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74
Dricky, you must accept that it's a litle disengenuous in a discussion to suggest that the opposiotion are petty or bitter. In fact, if you read back through the thread, the fans of Roy have used pretty colourful language to dismiss those of us who object to his behavious - I believe one defence of Roy was that we were all fit for castration anyway. Is that not a little bitter?

I have no personal axe to grind with Keane, I don't know the man.

But again, it is quite incorrect to suggest that our arguments are based on hearsay while you have a geniune insight into how he treats his family and you alone know what a super nice guy he is. The cynic in me is tempted to ask "which family where", but perhaps neither of us should go there. Anyway, it's a fact that Roy himself raised the issue about his family. It's a fact that he subsequently remembered that his real reasoning was problems with the FAI/Mick. These are conceded on the Tommy Gorman interview. It's a fact that he did not play for this country in the WC. It's a fact that he walked out prior to the WC before crawling back. There the facts. You on the other hand must rely on conjecture, what may or may not have been said by Roy, Mick, his solicitor, Sir Alex, the infamous meeting, the facilities etc. etc. The only thing we know for certain is that he quit...before being thrown out. And noone else did. Maybe they were all out of step with poor Roy...

Sorry Conor the Fay McM And Keane have said a lot of different things but they have said the same thing on one thing, he went to walk was convinced to stay then got set up and fired. nearly walked doesn't count it's not a fact.

You see Keane said he'd never play again under McM but what if he had played under BK would you view his walk out on the world cup and return under BK as okay????' Would that have been okay`?`???????? because that is what he did before the 'team meeting'. This is where people suffer from double standards.
My view he quit the team he should have been sent home.
The management asked him to stay/he changed his mind.
Did an interview and the castigated by his boss.
He blew the top and got fired.
I've never said Keane didn't deserve to be sent home, I think he did deserve it but he didn't walk he also didn't set himself up.

Your point on injury that it was faked where did you get that from.
that has been one of the sticks you have beaten him with.
The Dog walking
The bad language that Shocked Quinn.
He retired leaving the country up Sh!te creek.

You said the pro Keane posse uses colourful language, so they may doesn't mean I agree with them, but to be fair I'm not supporting them either I am going on what was coming from FAI Genisis report, MCM book and SuperQuinns ramblings interviews and newspaper reports. I am answering posts in response to mine, my information is there for reference. If it were untrue do you not think Keane would of go the same reception as he did over the Alfie thing??(Which I thought was out of order he is a pro not a spoilt child but that was delt with TWICE)

I'm not saying Keane is an angel but judge him on what happened, and then judge the rest under the same criteria.

If you are going to judge him on Football then you must judge him equally on his life outside football because his peers are really the only people who can judge him because they are the people who surround him and know what happened. The seems to be a lot of anti Keane sentiment with no foundation.

[Dricky]

Originally posted by liamon
OK, first off, all opinion tends to be one sided. You assess the facts and then form an opinion, which is that you support one side of the argument or the other. If you don't come out on one side or the other, you pretty much don't have an opinion.

[B]I agree but there have been no facts proven by the anti Keane crowd, did he fake it ??' where’s the proof. Did we not all ready know that winning was the thing that pushed Keane, can you say the same about the FAI and McM


Secondly, I am on Keane's side, but I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he got fired. He had an argument with a very stupid manager, but I can't see how that can be viewed as getting fired. If so, I may as well pack my bags, coz I've been fired dozens of times from my job.

Easy McM sent him home that is fired he may have planned to walk and then changed his mind but he did stay. I never said he didn't deserve to be sent home but he was sent home


Why by his peers? Why not us mere mortals? Are we incapable of digesting information and forming an opinion? Granted, there are idiots on foot.ie, but there are also some people that appear to be able to use some form of reason. If you truly believe we can't judge players, then why bother with www.foot.ie at all? I agree but there have been no facts proven by the anti Keane crowd, did he fake it ??' wheres the proof

Why by his peers? because we are not judging him as a mortal, Yes there is an incapability amongst us to form our own opinion, we are a nation that is led not lead. I do believe we can judge the players but there is no way Keane has been judged the same as Staunton, Keily, Quinn, or McM, he held out on a contract for more money, is that what loyalty is? thus my point if your not going to treat him as you would others why should he be judged by you(p)

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74
Ummm, but he himself conceded that he quit the team citing personal reasons (again Tommy O'Gorman's interview). So, is it your contention that not only are we wrong about what happened, but Roy himself was wrong too and you know what happened? It is somehow, in your opinion, notwithstanding Roy's own admission, NOT a fact that he walked out on the team? Or because he couldn't get off the island (because of flights) that his walk out was technically not a walk out? He was captain and he quit the team. Saying it didn't happen is ignoring the facts - not opinions, not hearsay, but facts.



It would not have made everything better, of course. But it would have gone a long way to confirming that his problem was not with playing for Ireland, as his detractors would say, but playing for McCarthy, and would have gone a hell of a long way in restoring his position. It could also have meant that we'd all have had a lot better memories of him than the images from Saipan.



Stop me when I go wrong. But Roy Keane indicated that he would only play one match in the qualifiers. He agreed with McCarthy that it would be the game in Dublin and would be excused from the away fixture. I appreciate that none of us know the ins and outs of back injuries, but it still seems, objectively, remarkable that someone could say they can definitely play next week and they will be too injured to play the week after. Particularly when it is not an injury so significant as to train the day of the away game, and play a Champions League a few days later. I wish I could say to my boss "I will be okay this week, I will definitely be sick on a specified day next week, and I'll be on top form the week after." I think "incredulous" springs to mind. I will not rely on what McCarthy, one of the contributors to the "non-playing pact" said, because I accept that the whole "who said what" does not necessarily amount to much.

The anti-Keane sentiment again is not without foundation. He was our country's captain and he let us down, at the most critical time. He didn't play in the World Cup. You can secondguess why, but he didn't. Again, as I said before, it is his defence that is based on conjecture, what may have happened at the meeting, what may have been said by him or Mick...


Keane's name was on the final 22 team and he was still in the hotel and with the team, he blew his lid infront of the players and rightly was sent fired as captian of Ireland. This is in Keanes book McM book and the FAI reports. This is the point interview or not Keane was fired.

[liamon]

Originally posted by Dricky
there is an incapability amongst us to form our own opinion, we are a nation that is led not lead.

Dodgy ground here. I'm not buying that argumant one bit.


Originally posted by Dricky
but there is no way Keane has been judged the same as Staunton, Keily, Quinn, or McM,

Agree with you on that point though. Esp Kylie.
He used Ireland to get a higher profile and then dumped us when it didn't suit him. Public reaction?
None.

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74
No no, Dricky, that is YOUR point, not THE point. For some of us, his walkout is not some irrelevancy but perhaps the most damning aspect of the incident. He was the captain of his country, and he quit. He quit right before the World Cup. Yes, he subsequently went back and there was a meeting where everything blew up, but before that meeting ever took place Roy Keane had let us down. That, and his failure to play in a World Cup qualifier because of a "positive result" (Niall Quinn quoting Keane) in the first leg, was enough quitting for me. I wouldn't damn him for his reaction to the meeting, in my opinion he had stepped way over the mark long before that...

How can he have let us down, so he said 'I've had enough I'm off' changed his mind, now the only people who would of know this was Keene MCA and the FAI, Keene didn't tell everyone I'm off he told MCA therefore when he changed heart and was asked also by the FAI to stay there would of been no one else would of know if the manager had done his job and not try to bring his captain down,
That is not my opinion that is what has happened as we have been told by 'ALL PARTIES' they do not disagree this happened. Therefore no matter what you say his name was on the squad therefore he was on the team.
You cannot use Conjecture as we have the proof there is no guesswork here. The facts are in Print from all parties that is where the references should be taken. Before the information was put to bed then conjecture could of been used but its time to update the facts.

Nearly never won the race surely you have heard of that Conor. The Facts are there this is not my opinion you are looking to blame Keene no matter what.

Conor you are jumping around point to point on anything you can find Niall Quinn has already been made a laughing stock with his 'I never heard language like that before' Yet you seem to take his word on it, do you really believe him??? This injury and the Iran game. If it was arranged with Mcm and Ferg well my feelings for Mcm sink even lower, to know and agree and then set it up so he can attack him in front of his team. If it wasn't then he may have been injured. but then he has been injured before and played for Ireland, so from the proof that is there I would have to favour Keene as he has played before injured.

Roy Keene hated playing for mca we all know that yet he played up until the point where he blew his lid with mca, he was then in sent home, that is fired all THE SOUND BITES OF INTERVIEWS ETC mca IS letting it be known he sent his captain packing.

You seem to have a standard for Roy keane and a standard for others, as you make him out to be such a let down to our country I again ask has Keene been judged the same as Staunton, Keily, Quinn, Kelly or mca??????


Liamon.
How else did Teflon Bertie get into power
Look at the Barstoolers.
Why are we in the Euro more to it then money.
Maastricht treaty
Nice treaty

Tell me we are not a nation led. (not all of us I agree)

[liamon]

Originally posted by Dricky
.
How else did Teflon Bertie get into power
Look at the Barstoolers.
Why are we in the Euro more to it then money.
Maastricht treaty
Nice treaty

Tell me we are not a nation led. (not all of us I agree)

OK, I am probably the least patriotic person on the planet. So I don't think we're looking at this through green tinted spectacles.

Teflon Bertie - Teflon Tony, or G. W. Shrub? Same the world over.

I don't get the barstoolers reference. They fell for Sky's slick marketing avalanche. So did Asia and lots of Scandinavian countrys. People can be lead by marketing the world over. So what?

I agree there is more to the Euro than a simple change in the currency of this country, but it does have advantages. Why has most of Europe adopted it? We're not alone.

Masstricht threw lots of cash our way and I voted for it.
Nice was just wrong. A bridge to far. I voted no, so I won't argue that with you. But the rest of Europe also adopted these treaties. Does that mean France & Germany now rule Europe? I don't think so.

Basically., I've spent enough time outside Ireland to know that we're no different to anyone else. We hae the same political weaknesses as everyone else. We're no worse or no better.

Anyway, this is a football site, so I'm not going to discuss this any further, unless we want to take it off topic.



Originally posted by Conor74
.Problem with Kylie was that more people were interested in the ass than in the ability
That wasn't a spelling mistake. he's also an annoying beeyatch and one hell of an ass.

[Dricky]

Originally posted by liamon
OK, I am probably the least patriotic person on the planet. So I don't think we're looking at this through green tinted spectacles.

I agree there is more to the Euro than a simple change in the currency of this country, but it does have advantages. Why has most of Europe adopted it? We're not alone.

Masstricht threw lots of cash our way and I voted for it.
Nice was just wrong. A bridge to far. I voted no, so I won't argue that with you. But the rest of Europe also adopted these treaties. Does that mean France & Germany now rule Europe? I don't think so.

Basically., I've spent enough time outside Ireland to know that we're no different to anyone else. We hae the same political weaknesses as everyone else. We're no worse or no better.

Anyway, this is a football site, so I'm not going to discuss this any further, unless we want to take it off topic.




Well I suppose we are not as bad as the Americans, so I do agree with the basis but your right, football.

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74



Liamon, Drricky, Tiktok surely we all agree on one thing:-
this argument/thread is getting boring.


Never

Fair enough but judge the others the same way if Keane is such a let down.


The news stories are not Mcm book Keanes book or the Genisis report

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by Dricky
Never

Fair enough but judge the others the same way if Keane is such a let down.




Of course others should be judged the same way. I am almost as disappointed in Kiely and Irwin as I am in Keane. Their timing was however a lot better (hence the "almost"). Staunton is a different matter. Having won 102 caps since 1988, and representing his country in every major tournament we took part in, his international career came to a natural close. Keane only played at the top level once (in 1994), which was probably our worst showing in a tournament finals.

Wasn't it nice to hear Jason McAteer's statement this morning.

Injured again on Saturday he said,

"I'm really missing the Irish scene. I want to get fit and get back into it. I feel I still have something to offer. As long as I think I am needed then I will be keen to play. Playing for Ireland has been the highlight of my career"


Spoken like a true patriot, when he could so easily choose to prolong his injury ridden career by just retiring. Makes you proud to be Irish.

[John83]

Originally posted by Greenbod
I am almost as disappointed in Kiely and Irwin as I am in Keane. Their timing was however a lot better (hence the "almost"). Staunton is a different matter. Having won 102 caps since 1988, and representing his country in every major tournament we took part in, his international career came to a natural close.

I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally. If you were the most decorated Irish player in history, deservedly nicknamed "Mr. Consistancy", and your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

Irwin retired a bit too early, but by the last World Cup, he was already showing his age in his declining pace and stamina. I don't hold his retiring against him.




Wasn't it nice to hear Jason McAteer's statement this morning.

...a true patriot, when he could so easily choose to prolong his injury ridden career by just retiring. Makes you proud to be Irish.

Actually, I hope to never again see McAteer in a green shirt. He faked injury and let down his team, his manager (who trusted him), his country, and his fans. He even admitted to trying to convince Mark Kennedy to do the same before the WC, which would have deprived us of another player. The international team for McAteer is one big holiday. That disgusted me.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by John83
I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally. If you were the most decorated Irish player in history, deservedly nicknamed "Mr. Consistancy", and your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

Irwin retired a bit too early, but by the last World Cup, he was already showing his age in his declining pace and stamina. I don't hold his retiring against him.





Actually, I hope to never again see McAteer in a green shirt. He faked injury and let down his team, his manager (who trusted him), his country, and his fans. He even admitted to trying to convince Mark Kennedy to do the same before the WC, which would have deprived us of another player. The international team for McAteer is one big holiday. That disgusted me.


Wrong. He actually faked "non-injury" in his eagerness to represent his country. There is a big difference. He made himself available to play despite being injured. Admirable. It was the manager's job to look and decide whether he was fit enough.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by John83
I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally. If you were the most decorated Irish player in history, deservedly nicknamed "Mr. Consistancy", and your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

Irwin retired a bit too early, but by the last World Cup, he was already showing his age in his declining pace and stamina. I don't hold his retiring against him.





John, regarding Irwin, you admit he retired to early. I don't buy that being told by your manager to "go out and prove yourself" is a valid reason to stop playing for your country. Surely EVERY player needs to go out and prove themselves every time. No player should be above this. Personality conflicts with the manager should have no bearing on your desire to play for your country. They weren't playing for McCarthy you know. They were playing for IRELAND!

[liamon]

Originally posted by John83
I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally..your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

Agree totally with that. I would probably have smacked that muppet of a manager if I was Irwin. But he didn't. Played a stormer, won his place and played until he felt he wasn't up to it anymore. Retired from international footie and stepped down a division in the UK, coz he didn't think he could handle top flight football aymore.

Don't see how anyone can criticise him.

[patsh]

Originally posted by Greenbod
Wasn't it nice to hear Jason McAteer's statement this morning.
Injured again on Saturday he said,
"I'm really missing the Irish scene. I want to get fit and get back into it. I feel I still have something to offer. As long as I think I am needed then I will be keen to play. Playing for Ireland has been the highlight of my career"
Spoken like a true patriot, when he could so easily choose to prolong his injury ridden career by just retiring. Makes you proud to be Irish.
A footballer wants to get back from injury to playing again and it makes you feel like a :
True Patriot ?
Proud to be Irish?

You've been listening to far too much George W Bullsh*t boy.

[John83]

Originally posted by Greenbod
Wrong. He actually faked "non-injury" in his eagerness to represent his country. There is a big difference. He made himself available to play despite being injured. Admirable. It was the manager's job to look and decide whether he was fit enough.

Sorry, yes I ment that he faked fitness. While his eagerness to play is commendable, he betrayed McCarthy's trust by lying to him about being fit, and he then let down his country by playing in the place of a fit player.

Besides, your counter-argument neatly ignores his encouragement of similar behaviour in Kennedy.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by John83
Sorry, yes I ment that he faked fitness. While his eagerness to play is commendable, he betrayed McCarthy's trust by lying to him about being fit, and he then let down his country by playing in the place of a fit player.

Besides, your counter-argument neatly ignores his encouragement of similar behaviour in Kennedy.


If a player "fakes fitness" and gets away with it, then his manager is at fault. Have you ever heard of fitness tests?

I don't know anything about him encouraging Kennedy so didn't comment on it. What's your source on this? I'd like to hear what he actually said to Kennedy.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by patsh
A footballer wants to get back from injury to playing again and it makes you feel like a :
True Patriot ?
Proud to be Irish?

You've been listening to far too much George W Bullsh*t boy.


I didn't say it makes me feel like a true patriot. I said McAteer's stated desire to play for his country and it being the highlight of his career was spoken like a true patriot.

And yes, to hear an Irish footballer (especially one not born here) speaking like this does make me proud. Sorry if you don't understand this feeling.

There are many forms of patriotism and pride in your country. I don't see what this has to do with George Bush, not being one to listen to much he has to say, but perhaps you could enlighten me as to what Bush has said recently which could be linked in any way to my post...................




Boy.:)

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by Conor74
Folks folks folks...

McAteer? McCarthy? Irwin? Kennedy?



And don't forget Bush!;)

[carnstein]

Originally posted by John83
I don't, and won't forget what Keane did for the NT, but I won't let that get him off the hook for everything he does.
What the hell did he "do". He didn't do ****e. He demanded perfection, perfection which was imperitive for the deliverece of success. Our manager was a muppet who couldn't see that we had a squad capable of challenging for the World Cup. Keane saw it the way it was, he was the only one with the intelligence to know we had a chance. He was dumped because he was brave enough to be ambitous. He did not walk out on Ireland, Ireland was not couragous enough to walk with him.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by carnstein
He didn't do ****e.

Correct. The rest of the team played in a World cup followed by Euro qualifiers. He didn't do ****e.

[scouser]

Originally posted by carnstein
What the hell did he "do". He didn't do ****e. He demanded perfection, perfection which was imperitive for the deliverece of success. Our manager was a muppet who couldn't see that we had a squad capable of challenging for the World Cup. Keane saw it the way it was, he was the only one with the intelligence to know we had a chance. He was dumped because he was brave enough to be ambitous. He did not walk out on Ireland, Ireland was not couragous enough to walk with him.

A rite, just got back from the Blackburn game at the weekend, and to put it simply, I am quite disgusted by the amount of,well ya know, ****ty that has been put against the lad Keane. Everytime he took the field for us, he wore the green,white and gold shirt with great pride, that of a liverpudlian. Quite frankly, I cannot understand where this is all coming from. He has been a great servent to the game and the lad carnstein there has summed quite well imo.

Ta,
Scouser

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Greenbod
Correct. The rest of the team played in a World cup followed by Euro qualifiers. He didn't do ****e.
Who the hell got us to the World Cup. Its obvious to anyone who watched the games. In a group with a couple of no hopers like the Swiss and the Russians, our current batch are struggling.

If you can't acknowledge what Keane did for Ireland you are obviously deluded.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by carnstein
Who the hell got us to the World Cup. Its obvious to anyone who watched the games. In a group with a couple of no hopers like the Swiss and the Russians, our current batch are struggling.

If you can't acknowledge what Keane did for Ireland you are obviously deluded.

Yes. Keane made a hugh contribution to our qualification to WC2002 as part of a team. NOT ON HIS OWN.

It's really insulting to the other players to claim that Keane got us to the World cup. It's simply not true. What about Richard Dunne's performance in Amsterdam against Kluivert (If Kluivert had scored we wouldn't have qualified). Do people claim Dunne got us to the World cup? McAteers TWO goals against Holland (home and away, if these two goals hadn't been scored we wouldn't have qualified). Do people claim McAteer got us to the World cup? Holland and Kinsellas midfield performance away in Estonia when Keane wasn't playing (If we hadn't won that game we wouldn't have qualified). Do people claim Holland and Kinsella got us to the world cup? The answer of course is that they all contributed. Some are STILL contributing.

Yes. Our current batch are struggling. But our current batch are PLAYING! I will support my national team win lose or draw and I don't waste my time pineing for someone who used to be good for but is no longer bothered.

[patsh]

Originally posted by Greenbod
I didn't say it makes me feel like a true patriot. I said McAteer's stated desire to play for his country and it being the highlight of his career was spoken like a true patriot.

And yes, to hear an Irish footballer (especially one not born here) speaking like this does make me proud. Sorry if you don't understand this feeling.

There are many forms of patriotism and pride in your country. I don't see what this has to do with George Bush, not being one to listen to much he has to say, but perhaps you could enlighten me as to what Bush has said recently which could be linked in any way to my post...................




Boy.:)
If you can't see for yourself that the sentiments you expressed are overblown hyperbole, how can it be explained to you?:rolleyes:
Mr. Bush, and his coven, have a habit of calling anyone that agrees with them a "patriot", thus completely devaluing the word and stripping it of any meaning.

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by patsh
If you can't see for yourself that the sentiments you expressed are overblown hyperbole, how can it be explained to you?:rolleyes:
Mr. Bush, and his coven, have a habit of calling anyone that agrees with them a "patriot", thus completely devaluing the word and stripping it of any meaning.

"Overblown hyperbole"!:D Well done, you've just managed to strip another two words of any meaning.

If you don't understand the sentiments expressed because Mr Bush has stripped them of any meaning for you :rolleyes: , then don't bother commenting.

Have you anything to contribute to the topic being discussed by the way?..... or has Mr Blair or Mr Hussein stripped the whole thread of meaning for you?:rolleyes: .................................................. .........................................boy!

[carnstein]

Originally posted by Conor74 You see folks, in carnstein's world, courage means quitting a football team and walking out. [/B]
The main arguement of the anti-roy keane brigade is that he walked out, he is a traitor, blah-blah-blah. When your main arguement is not even valid, it shows that you truely are an idiotic deluded fool. He was SENT HOME. Get it ****ing right. HE DID NOT WALK OUT. His country walked out on him. If he was supported we could have won the World Cup, but that is ambitous, not what you would call a typical trait of an Irishman.

Why should we settle for second best, Roy Keane's problem is that he was a winner, managed be someone who was happy to settle for honourable defeat.

[ger121]

Keane was right/not right to go home.

McCarthy was right/not right to send him home.

We would have won/not won the world cup if he had stayed/not stayed.

We miss him/do not miss him.

Ireland has moved on/not moved on.

Now I hope that's all covered/or not covered.

and can we move on/not move on to something else:p

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by Conor74
I know, why don't you make up completely stupid, baseless, irrelevant and pointless remarks about the Irish people to support a point about Roy Keane?

Sorry, I see you've started already.

Again, I have sourced the whole Roy Keane walkout/quitting saga above and would suggest you check them out. Again, I would reiterate that I am referring to what happened before the meeting, not his subsequent dismissal. Is there a collective amnesia here, or did you just forget a whole day of news surrounding his walkout (again, I stress, before the infamous meeting) to suit your own arguments?

Conor, It's useless. Some people just have a complete blindspot when it comes to HRH Roy Keane. It's bordering on the obsessive. Maybe there's a sexual element involved?

[Greenbod]

Originally posted by ger121
Keane was right/not right to go home.

McCarthy was right/not right to send him home.

We would have won/not won the world cup if he had stayed/not stayed.

We miss him/do not miss him.

Ireland has moved on/not moved on.

Now I hope that's all covered/or not covered.

and can we move on/not move on to something else:p

I have to agree with everything you've just said.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by carnstein
.....but that is ambitous, not what you would call a typical trait of an Irishman......

Conor 'n Greenbod:
I don't actaully agree with Carnsteins point wrt to Irish people in general. But it is IMO it definitely applies to the FAI who played a large role in this farce.
I've been following Ireland and the LOI for a long time and have never witnessed much ambition from anyone going abroad, either to european ties as a club or to Euro/WC championships as a country (up until very very recently).
It drives me mad, I'm old enough to remember Turkey being the whipping boys of every Group qualifiers, and sat back to watch them get to a WC semi final.
In the last WC Turkey, Korea, Japan, USA all got further than us, and what i still think was one of the worst German sides I'd ever seen got to the final.

We should have long since passed the crap we come out with "oh isn't it great to be there for the occasion", and stop turning the Phoenix Park into a love fest after we consistently fall at the second hurdle.

We should be looking to challenge now (realistic or not) and we do lack ambition. What has that got to do with this debate,

Keane was used to winning at Manchester United, he saw how that could be achieved, starting by a professional approach, McCarthy and the FAI since '88 were used to enjoying the occasion and being too greatly rewarded for it to actually take the next step.

The timing couldn't have been worse, and as i've said before i was on Keane's side (since you had to take one) but i wish both he and McC had been men enough to put it aside for three weeks.

Ambition and attitude might not be the fundamental point of the argument but it contributes to understanding it.

[patsh]

Now Conor, you can hardly use the opinion of two people, Giles and Lawrenson, as to what was going on in a third persons mind, as any sort of basis for an argument.
As for describing a change of mind by a player about playing for Blackburn and opting for Man U instead, as "dishonest" is really stretching it. I do not know any details of the contract, but wasn't that the time that Blackburn were throwing money at everyone to become one of the "big" clubs in England, so I doubt if the money would have been any object. Isn't it possible that a player decides to go for the club with more chance of success on the playing field?
As "we'd be dismissed as contrary b*****d", isn't it generally accepted that RK is just that, a contrary bast*rd?
Looking at the title of the thread, I have to say that when I think abut it, I have no feelings about him at all, anymore. TBH, I'm slightly embarrassed when I look back and see how the whole country, no matter what side of the divide you were on, carried on last year, over what was essentially a trivial matter.

[Dricky]

Originally posted by Conor74



Is there a collective amnesia here, or did you just forget a whole day of news surrounding his walkout (again, I stress, before the infamous meeting) to suit your own arguments?

But Conor are you forgetting Nearly never won the race. he didn't walk, he went to but didn't for what ever reason weather his own, flights or persuasion he didn't walk, he was on an Island covered with water, Now I don't think he's in the same class as Jesus Christ as the walking on water thing was out but if he walked it wouldn't of mattered if he was on the Island or not, he wouldn't of been on the team. There was more room on the Island to put Roy Keane, he didn't have to leave the Island to leave the team. If he had left the team it wouldn't matter where in the world he was he would not have been part of the 22.
This point of just cause he couldn't get off the Island he stayed is not really that plausible. If McM did not want Keane there it wouldn't of mattered where Keane was.

Also look at ALL the newspaper reports from that day and the only thing that is conclusive is the press had a whiff of a story and then made the rest up. Your memory is selective, he was going because of his Family, a report in the Sun, not fit, had a break down these all were bantered around on that day.

Why don't you take what Fai Keane and McM have to say??? Surely they were there, because the Press certainly were not there.
You taken the word of the Press by the looks of it.

Hearsay is what you use, the FAI Keane and MCM all say the same thing that he did not quit that he was fired. yet Gilies and Lawernson have a different view now come on Conor are you honestly taking hearsay above the printed word of the Three parties involved., the basis of your argument is he left.

I am not saying Keane is God,
I don't believe he should be on the team anymore as no matter whether McM was right or wrong Keane shouldn't have screamed abuse at him Just as McM should of been sacked
I do think he let himself and his team down by blowing his top.
I've never said he's not a spoiled little child wanting it all.
I don't think he mother Therese.
But I do think he was Fired.


Conor what worries me on this is you are always returning to rumour yet the information from the parties involved they have all said he was fired, which is now in print is always ignored in preference for sensationalism.

Do you honestly think this just started on the Island??????

[thecorner]

Originally posted by Conor74
I mean, there are a lot of myths that have grown up about Keane. Dunphy likes to say he is honest. Kenny Dalglish would say he was dishonest and reneged on Blackburn for the money at Old Trafford

the money man utd offered RK was lees than the contract offered at blackburn

i mean if u had a choice between these two clubs who would u pick:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[thecorner]

yes he did and no hes not a fool

any player in the world would turn down blackburn for the likes man utd,arsenal etc...........