Financial Survey of Clubs

[WoodquayBoy]

The Indo sports section carries a financial survey of the 22 league clubs today and accompanying article with headline'cash lunacy plunging league into darkness'.
Link: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/cash-lunacy-plunging-league-into-darkness-1448242.html

[finnpark]

The Indo sports section carries a financial survey of the 22 league clubs today and accompanying article with headline'cash lunacy plunging league into darkness'.
Link: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/cash-lunacy-plunging-league-into-darkness-1448242.html

The guy thats buying Bohs' stadium is Liam Carroll. He recently was in the papers for losing €20M in Aer Lingus shares.

Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country, I just think that there is a good chance of the Dalymount deal breaking down. I know there are contracts signed but those contracts become worthless if the company that signed them is no longer trading.

I hope this deal still goes through but I would have my doubts that Bohs will ever be able to sell that stadium in the short term.

[bohs til i die]

The guy thats buying Bohs' stadium is Liam Carroll. He recently was in the papers for losing €20M in Aer Lingus shares.

Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country, I just think that there is a good chance of the Dalymount deal breaking down. I know there are contracts signed but those contracts become worthless if the company that signed them is no longer trading.

I hope this deal still goes through but I would have my doubts that Bohs will ever be able to sell that stadium in the short term.


Contract is not signed

[Dodge]

Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country

Thats total ********

[finnpark]

Thats total ********

Is it really. There is 0 activity in that market so I can't see how they can survive :confused:

[monutdfc]

Contract is not signed
well then it won't be now.

[Dodge]

Is it really. There is 0 activity in that market so I can't see how they can survive :confused:

Do you honestly believe there isn't a single thing being built at the moment. Sure there's a downturn but stuff still needs to get built, and its ridiculous to say "Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country"

[galwayhoop]

Do you honestly believe there isn't a single thing being built at the moment.
there is very, very little action in this sector. less than 10% of this time last year. i would imagine the only things being built are existing projects. to be devils advocate there are no (or so few as to register) new medium to large construction projects commencing.


and its ridiculous to say "Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country"
agreed. however most construction / development companies in an effort to ride out the current situation and save from going to the wall are down to skeleton staff, have shed most of their workforce and vastly reduced all overheads (including marketing and sponsorship), real tighten the belt stuff.

[gufct]

there is very, very little action in this sector. less than 10% of this time last year. i would imagine the only things being built are existing projects. to be devils advocate there are no (or so few as to register) new medium to large construction projects commencing.


agreed. however most construction / development companies in an effort to ride out the current situation and save from going to the wall are down to skeleton staff, have shed most of their workforce and vastly reduced all overheads (including marketing and sponsorship), real tighten the belt stuff.

The development sector is under severe financial pressure from all the banks and even the biggest ones in the country are sitting on properties and land banks which have almost halved in valuation in the last 2 years. The commercial sector has also hit the skids big time countrywide and after coming back from the USA after a 3 week holiday I can tell you its worse over there.

The backers of Drogheda and St. Pats are property developers while Bohs are spending money they mighnt ever get so a lot of what is in this and other articles is true.

[garyderry]

Do you honestly believe there isn't a single thing being built at the moment. Sure there's a downturn but stuff still needs to get built, and its ridiculous to say "Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country"

There on another planet up there in Donegal dodge ;)
Plenty of building around Dublin, and plenty of developers making money
especially inside the canal where Dalymount is.

[sligoman]

Average crowd figures are wrong in it.

[jebus]

Average crowd figures are wrong in it.

Thought that alright, article isn't as bad a hatchet job as I would have expected though, espcially as I think Drury and his goons were behind it

[Dodge]

Average crowd figures are wrong in it.

As are turnover figures. A whole apssage on the wages is lifted from a post by charliesboots on this forum during the week

[jinxy lilywhite]

Stats and figures generally can be used to argue any case. The article isn't saying anything that we don't already know.
The attendence figures have been pointed out to be incorrect but the actual figures are low too.

in relation to the recession just because the papers say its a recession doesn't actually mean that there is a recession. Development has slowed down but there is still growth in the economy. Its very low but there is still growth.

[John83]

... Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country...
That's just wrong. Many of them are sitting on their assets and cutting back on building, but I've yet to hear of one actually going to the wall, and my whole family is in the industry. I think that maybe you don't understand what 'bust' actually means.

[red bellied]

Is the financial survey in the same link, the facts and figures part?

[gspain]

Stats and figures generally can be used to argue any case. The article isn't saying anything that we don't already know.
.

I think I counted 46 unknows - thrown in a few unavailables and a lot of "approx". The article doesn't seem to know anything except it was a good day to do a hatchet job on the league without any facts. The only backpage football story is some Bohs director I've never heard of leaving the club. It's not as if the premiership or scottish champions were within an inch of knocking out Dynamo Kiev - now that would have made the backpage. :mad:

I don't know Daniel but I do know he is a football fan so he is just following somebody else's agenda to do a hatchet job on the league.

[jinxy lilywhite]

That's just wrong. Many of them are sitting on their assets and cutting back on building, but I've yet to hear of one actually going to the wall, and my whole family is in the industry. I think that maybe you don't understand what 'bust' actually means.

The amount of companies going for voluntary liquidation is up 150% on last year.

[pineapple stu]

No-one's saying the economy isn't in trouble. Your stat doesn't equate to the original point being challenged, which was -


Nearly every property development company has gone bust in this country

[John83]

The amount of companies going for voluntary liquidation is up 150% on last year.
The percentage of mortgage defaults is also up, which also doesn't tell me if any builders are going to the wall.

[passerrby]

so the league is in dire straits with clubs spending more than they take in so his solution is to give the running of the league to someone who will abolish the 65%.. really smart

[Youths4Ever]

firstly this is not a thread on the building industry which it seems to have turned into when reading through it

the article has to many missing pieces of information and guesses at information to be accurate although a bit of hatchet job does make some valid points about pitfalls league facing.


Average crowd figures are wrong in it.

where can you get the correct ones?

[finnpark]

That's just wrong. Many of them are sitting on their assets and cutting back on building, but I've yet to hear of one actually going to the wall, and my whole family is in the industry. I think that maybe you don't understand what 'bust' actually means.

I know of one property developer that owes 800M to a bank, another one that has checked into the mental unit in a hospital and another one that sold 10 houses for 100K each just to save his ass short term. Companies are closing left, right and center. Sitting on what assets? Property is a liability now, not an asset. And its been like this for the last 18 months.

As for the Bohs stadium buyout; surely its value at least has decreased enormously since that deal was done :confused:

[pete]

I think I counted 46 unknows - thrown in a few unavailables and a lot of "approx".

I noticed that too although I did not count them. Hard to call it a financial survey with no actual figures as even the ones listed are just hearsay.

[finnpark]

Can we not buy in cheaper/better players from Lithuania and other countries ranked above us? :confused:

[pineapple stu]

I know of one property developer that owes 800M to a bank, another one that has checked into the mental unit in a hospital and another one that sold 10 houses for 100K each just to save his ass short term. Companies are closing left, right and center. Sitting on what assets? Property is a liability now, not an asset. And its been like this for the last 18 months.


Oh, so there's only three construction companies in the country?

My mistake.

[finnpark]

Oh, so there's only three construction companies in the country?

My mistake.

Funny guy.

Well Im not going to argue with you as 1. Ive no interest anymore in the topic and have never worked in the area and 2. this is a footballing forum.

But for the record I don't think a single property development company can make money in Ireland this year.

[Dodge]

But for the record I don't think a single property development company can make money in Ireland this year.
Well if nearly all of them are going bust someone is going to be making money :rolleyes:

[hoops1]

Contract is not signed

Excuse me :eek:

[finnpark]

Well if nearly all of them are going bust someone is going to be making money :rolleyes:

No, how do you make that out? Some will keep trading with little expediture waiting for the lowest points in the markets to come.

I will be shocked if that Bohs deal goes through, at the same value as before. Hope it does but not a chance. I realise that a lot of these property developers are stupid and made their money with pot luck but none could be that stupid :D

[finnpark]

Excuse me :eek:

Exactly, Dalymount stays and it might even be good for Irish football. :)

[A face]

Excuse me :eek:

You're excused ..... what did you do anyway?

[hoops1]

I was led to believe by Bohs fans that the contracts were signed and the huge wages being paid at the moment would be offset by monies paid by Liam Carroll if the deal didnt go ahead.
No contracts signed and its Bohs own money they are spending

[finnpark]

I was led to believe by Bohs fans that the contracts were signed and the huge wages being paid at the moment would be offset by monies paid by Liam Carroll if the deal didnt go ahead.
No contracts signed and its Bohs own money they are spending

Well I think they already got 2M, I assume so anyway but Id say liam Carroll and co will cut their losses at that.

[bohs til i die]

Well I think they already got 2M, I assume so anyway but Id say liam Carroll and co will cut their losses at that.


Bohs received a pile of cash from Carroll last year but no more this year due to the ongoing court case with Albion Properties.

Carroll will walk away and most likely come back with a new offer that'll cost him about €15M less then the one the board claim is signed but isnt.

[finnpark]

Bohs received a pile of cash from Carroll last year but no more this year due to the ongoing court case with Albion Properties.

Carroll will walk away and most likely come back with a new offer that'll cost him about €15M less then the one the board claim is signed but isnt.

Yes, that sounds more like it. As time goes on that 15M becomes bigger

[sligoman]

where can you get the correct ones?Nowhere cos not all clubs count them. No point in just making it up either though, like they did in this.

[SMorgan]

Thought that alright, article isn't as bad a hatchet job as I would have expected though, espcially as I think Drury and his goons were behind it


It's certainly occurred to me that there are those within the local game and just outside it, that appear to be manipulating the difficulties being experienced at some clubs for their own narrow self-interested ends. Of course all St. Pats, Cork's, Bohs and Drogheda's troubles will be resolved by their participation in a 10-club league with no P&R for three years. I wonder what colour the sky is on planet these people live on!!

[sullanefc]

Exactly, Dalymount stays and it might even be good for Irish football. :)

I hope so. I honestly thought the sale of Dalymount was a mistake. While I didn't begrudge Bohs the money, I really think the FAI should step in here to preserve Dalymount. Although that could be unlikely with all their money tied up in Landsdowne. There is an oppurtunity here for the FAI to make Dalymount Dublin's second football ground.

[EalingGreen]

On the question of the state of the economy generally, and the construction industry specifically, as far as football is concerned, it probably doesn't matter whether e.g. 90% or 50% or 10% of building companies are facing going bust. Nor does it matter whether 90% or 50% or even 10% of all new projects are being cancelled. Ditto whether economic growth is down to 2% or 1% or even Zero.

In the end, when things are tight - as they clearly are - it is the most risky and speculative projects which get binned first, as what capital there is still around flows to the most secure ventures.

And Irish Football is clearly in the (far?) Risky/Speculative end of the spectrum. :(

[oldyouth]

firstly this is not a thread on the building industry which it seems to have turned into when reading through it
Totally agree with my colleague here. The thread is about the financial status of the clubs in the league, not the economy

[finnpark]

Well overall crowds are poor and players are overpaid. St Pats, Cork, Bohs and Drogs have very good players but there are hardly a good 11 amongst all the other clubs put together including Derry,Sligo And Shamrock.

In fact I suspect that many of the teams are like Harps, out boozing half the time and getting paid professional wages.

The prices into matches seem too high for a start and what is the story with having matches on a Friday night? :confused: Any clown would tell you that Saturday night games get bigger crowds, especially outside the capital. :rolleyes:.

[Paddyfield]

Any clown would tell you that Saturday night games get bigger crowds, especially outside the capital. :rolleyes:.

Galway United played all home games on Saturday nights for 5 years but crowds increased when the Club switched to Fridays.

[passerrby]

there was no financial survey just guesstimate by some hack jurno with a friend with an agenda

[finnpark]

Galway United played all home games on Saturday nights for 5 years but crowds increased when the Club switched to Fridays.

Yeah, I would suspect that in Galway alright as Galway wouldn't have many exiles returning home plus most of the fan base is local. Saturday is better for the rural teams though, Harps for definite anyway.

[Paddyfield]

Yeah, I would suspect that in Galway alright as Galway wouldn't have many exiles returning home plus most of the fan base is local. Saturday is better for the rural teams though, Harps for definite anyway.

A slight majority of GUFC fans live in County Galway not Galway city. A marketing survey by 3 NUIG students revealed this in 2003.

[pete]

Whatever about the top full time players getting paid a lot some part times are definitely doing better. Even at E500 a week on average 40 week season is 20k which is good money for training 2 nights a week & 1-2 matches. Might even be net tax. If they were playing non-league would put in as much effort.

[gufct]

Seems like its spreading.The Stars back page says Cork Players havent been paid for 3 weeks and they owe €800k to their Creditors including the Taxman.

[pineapple stu]

Not the worst article I've ever read about the league, though ultimately it said nothing we didn't know anyway. The top four are losing ridiculous sums of money, the solution to which is to get rid of everyone else and only have Dublin derbies it seems. Nothing major is going to happen until the top four get a reality check though.

Interesting that Shels, the most cooperative club, are apparently still drawing down the lease on Tolka. Wonder what our friend higgins would say? :p

[Buile Shuibhne]

Interesting that Shels, the most cooperative club, are apparently still drawing down the lease on Tolka. Wonder what our friend higgins would say? :p


From what part of the Indo article did you dream that up?