Creativity in midfield

[colster]

Saturdays result seems have pointed out our creative deficiencies in midfield. I think it was as much to do with a lack of penetration up front.

Anyway we do lack creativity in midfield. Many have put MacPhail forward as the solution to this problem.
I don't think that MacPhail is strong enough to play in the centre of a 4 man midfield.
So are we talking about a return to the 4-5-1 formation as used by JC when John Sheridan was around.

I would like us to try the new in-vogue formation which is an attacking variation on 4-5-1 i.e 4-2-3-1.

My team would be

--------- Given--------

Carr O'Shea Cunnigham Finnan

-----Healy-----------Delap--------

Keane---MacPhail--------Duff

---------- Morrisson

I think that Keane, MacPhail and Duff are intelligent enough footballers to float behind Morrisson. Keane likes to play in a withdrawn role.

What do you think?? I think this formation would be worth a try in some friendlies.

[pete]

You clearly been playing too many computer games to come up with a formation like that.

I do not understand why you would play Robbie Keane ( top goal scorer) on the right wing. I hate to use an english analogy but don't think you'll see Owen play on the wing anytime soon.

I still don't understand what people have against Breen - his irish performances in recent years have been great + can see at the game that he has a good partnership with Cunningham such is the communication between them.

Would be interested to see how Delap improved in last couple of years but IMO McPhail not good enough yet.

[colster]

Originally posted by pete
You clearly been playing too many computer games to come up with a formation like that.

I do not understand why you would play Robbie Keane ( top goal scorer) on the right wing. I hate to use an english analogy but don't think you'll see Owen play on the wing anytime soon.

I still don't understand what people have against Breen - his irish performances in recent years have been great + can see at the game that he has a good partnership with Cunningham such is the communication between them.

Would be interested to see how Delap improved in last couple of years but IMO McPhail not good enough yet.

I've nothing against Breen. I'd just like to see O'Shea given a chance in the centre and Finnan on the left.
The reason I've gone for this formation is to accomodate MacPhail who looks like a player who has the talent to unlock defences like the Russians on Saturday. Real and Utd have been usinng this formation recently.
I don't think he is strong enough to play in a 4 man midfield.
I think Keane is better behind the front man. He likes to roam. I think he would be wasted up front on his own.
The Keane-MacPhail-Duff trio would interchange and move around. I think they are all talented enough to do that.
Healy and Delap are both good defensively and very strong runners which they'll need to be to play this formation.

I'm not advocating that we play this against Switzerland. Just that it would be worth looking at .

[John83]

Whatever about Delap, McFrail ain't gettting another cap anytime soon. Injuries aside, he hasn't played well for a good two (three?) years, and has barely played at all in a long time.

His loan spell at Millwall was an absolute disaster.

[colster]

Originally posted by John83
Whatever about Delap, McFrail ain't gettting another cap anytime soon. Injuries aside, he hasn't played well for a good two (three?) years, and has barely played at all in a long time.

His loan spell at Millwall was an absolute disaster.

Seems to be doing well at Forest at the moment.
He's been unlucky over the last couple of seasons.
He's probably played more games and is more experienced than Healy.He has played in the Champions League and Europe did very well there.
Look he is the most creative midfielder available to Ireland at the moment.
We are a small nation so sometimes we can't wait for players to re-estbalish themselves.
Sometimes we have to help them along by playing them in friendlies.

Anyway we tried 4-3-3 with Connolly, Keane and Duff up front. Why not try this variation in a friendly. Thats what they're for after all.

Also I think it's time that we brought in players such as Thornton, Reid and Miller into the senior squad and gave them a run out.
Hopefully we can see some of them against Turkey.

[pete]

The loan spell at Nottingham Forest will do McPhail well. Best to see how he does & then maybe give him a chance in the spring friendlies.

btw thought Reid impressive for the u-21s on friday & certainly better than Butler. Dunno if he ready for senior level yet.

[Slash/ED]

Butler, Reid and Miller are all ready I reckon, McPhails place in my formation would involve boot cleaning and generally being as far away from the Lansedown road pitch as possible. Tried and failed.

[Colm]

No doubt I'll be laughed at for suggesting this but, if it's creativity you're looking for, I honestly believe George O'Callaghan is at least worth a try.

[Éanna]

Originally posted by Colm
No doubt I'll be laughed at for suggesting this but, if it's creativity you're looking for, I honestly believe George O'Callaghan is at least worth a try. agreed.

[Seamus #1]

I appreciate what people are saying about creativity in midfield. But I really think Ireland needs a dominant all round midfielder, someone who will take the game by the scruff of the neck as it were.

Basically a Vieira rather than a Zidane.

I know we struggled on saturday but we were without our star striker and Duffer was getting hacked to pieces every time he got the ball. All the creativity in the world won't help if the rest of the team seem incapable of passing the ball properly which to me seemed the problem.

[Seamus #1]

Originally posted by colster
Also I think it's time that we brought in players such as Thornton, Reid and Miller into the senior squad and gave them a run out.
Hopefully we can see some of them against Turkey.

Totally agree. I can't understand why he didn't give particularly Miller a go against Australia

[Ultan]

Is O'Shea worth a look in centre midfield? He looks comfortable on the ball and seems to make an effort to use it when he gets it, certainly more so then the crap like Kinsella and Holland. He's already played there for Man United and by all accounts didn't look out of his dept. Coupled with the fact we have full backs a plenty I think it should at least be tried in a future friendly.

Remember, Paul McGrath was essentially a full-back who played in the middle of the park for Ireland.

[noby]

Originally posted by Éanna
agreed.


is that agreed that he'll be laughed at.

[colster]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
Butler, Reid and Miller are all ready I reckon, McPhails place in my formation would involve boot cleaning and generally being as far away from the Lansedown road pitch as possible. Tried and failed.

Agree with you about Reid and Miller but not sure about Butler. He hasn't yet got a 1st team place at Sunderland.
MacPhail has, I agree, yet to impress for Ireland but he has either been played on the left or in a 4 man midfield.
I'm not saying that he should get into the first team for competitive games. All I'm saying is that it would be worth a try just like Kerr tried Duff,Keane and Connolly in a front 3.
From what I've seen of MacPhail he has the potential to be a very good midfielder.

I think it's time for Kerr to experiment with midfield and bring in the likes of Reid, Miller and Thornton.

[carnstein]

McPhail and Healy should be our central midfield partnership for the future. Healy offers a bit of steel and is a great tackler and McPhail offers what we have been lacking scince Keano departed the posistion, creativity.

[Schumi]

Originally posted by Colm
No doubt I'll be laughed at for suggesting this but, if it's creativity you're looking for, I honestly believe George O'Callaghan is at least worth a try. Yeah and play Mick Devine in goal as well. :rolleyes:

[colster]

Originally posted by carnstein
McPhail and Healy should be our central midfield partnership for the future. Healy offers a bit of steel and is a great tackler and McPhail offers what we have been lacking scince Keano departed the posistion, creativity.

I don't think that MacPhail is strong enough to play in a midfield partnership. IMO he can only be accomodated as a 3rd central midfielder.
Teams like Ireland need to have 2 defensive ball winning midfielders because we don't keep the ball well enough. We don't have enough players that are comfortable on the ball to accomodate MacPhail in a 4 man midfield.

[Colm]

Originally posted by Schumi
Yeah and play Mick Devine in goal as well. :rolleyes:


Schumi, that's exactly the kind of ignorant response I was expecting.
However, you wouldn't have been one of the people I expected it from!

[petef]

Who the hell is George O Callaghan? I'm just guessing but does he play for Cork by any chance?

[joeSoap]

originally posted by Ultan:
Remember, Paul McGrath was essentially a full-back who played in the middle of the park for Ireland.
Ultan...you are an idiot...goodbye!!!

[noby]

good guess petef!

schumi, that is an ignorant response. it's dan connor should be in goal:)

i mean , if o'flynn and o'callaghan are good enough...

[Ultan]

Originally posted by joeSoap
originally posted by Ultan:
Ultan...you are an idiot...goodbye!!!
I was waiting for someone to take me up on this... Paul McGrath started as a full back, learnt his trade as a full back and always classed himself as a full back who was played out of position. He was just best remembered for his central midfield displays at international level and his latter-day career games at central defence.

I think you should know your facts and history before you class people as "idiots".

[Schumi]

Originally posted by Colm
Schumi, that's exactly the kind of ignorant response I was expecting.
However, you wouldn't have been one of the people I expected it from! Oh come on, you seriously think O'Callaghan should start for Ireland?

[Colm]

Originally posted by Schumi
Oh come on, you seriously think O'Callaghan should start for Ireland?

He's as good as any of the other options, imo he's better than Flynny. I mean if Crowe can get in the squad then surely I'm not being at all unrealistic.
I think that old inferiority complex is rearing it's head again, sure if he was any good he wouldn't be still playing for City!:rolleyes: What a load of crap!

[Schumi]

Originally posted by Colm
I think that old inferiority complex is rearing it's head again, sure if he was any good he wouldn't be still playing for City!:rolleyes: What a load of crap! It's not that at all, I just don't think he's at that level (yet?) whether he plays for Bohs or Cork.

[John83]

Originally posted by Ultan
Is O'Shea worth a look in centre midfield? He looks comfortable on the ball and seems to make an effort to use it when he gets it, certainly more so then the crap like Kinsella and Holland. He's already played there for Man United and by all accounts didn't look out of his dept. Coupled with the fact we have full backs a plenty I think it should at least be tried in a future friendly.

Remember, Paul McGrath was essentially a full-back who played in the middle of the park for Ireland.

It's a good suggestion, and the vast bulk of Man Utd fans who have the faintest idea of what football is believe that O'Shea is being groomed to eventually take over Keane's old role for them. Certainly, he has the attributes and the ability, though Keane's influence was as much down to his attitude and mental toughness as any talent.

I don't remember O'Shea playing in midfield for Man U yet though. They've tried Butt, Phil Neville, even Michael Stewart, but not O'Shea. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Incidently, despite rating O'Callaghan highly, I don't think very many eL players are up to international standard. He might be worth a risk if there was an injury crisis, but not under normal circumstances.

[pete]

Originally posted by John83
Incidently, despite rating O'Callaghan highly, I don't think very many eL players are up to international standard. He might be worth a risk if there was an injury crisis, but not under normal circumstances.

Yeah even Crowe is really only deserving of a squad place when some injuries. Then again the forward options are so thin now that Connolly could be dumped for anyone else.

[Ultan]

Originally posted by John83
It's a good suggestion, and the vast bulk of Man Utd fans who have the faintest idea of what football is believe that O'Shea is being groomed to eventually take over Keane's old role for them. That'll be all 3 of them then.

He definitely, definitely, definitely did play in centre mid-field for the Man United first team, I seen him interviewed after it and he was saying how much he enjoyed the chance (it was in a league cup tie) and that he'd love to be there more often. He also said he played there regularly for the reserves.

May I be struck down by Kevin Hunt if I am wrong...

[Macy]

Originally posted by Ultan
That'll be all 3 of them then.
LOL :rolleyes:

[Slash/ED]

I remember O'Shea in central mid field, worthington cup tie against Preston (I think!?) either way, he was fantastic, and it was his class through ball that brought about a goal (Forlan scored it I think).

I wouldn't mind seing Kevin Hunt in an Ireland shirt, apparently he'll be a naturalised citizen this year and his family are Irish and he'd jump at the chance to play for us, he's good enough I think given our central mid field options.

[pete]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
I remember O'Shea in central mid field, worthington cup tie against Preston (I think!?) either way, he was fantastic, and it was his class through ball that brought about a goal (Forlan scored it I think).

In fairness i'm sure i'd look fairly handy playing for Manchester in midfield against Preston.

;)

[Seamus #1]

Originally posted by Ultan
I was waiting for someone to take me up on this... Paul McGrath started as a full back, learnt his trade as a full back and always classed himself as a full back who was played out of position. He was just best remembered for his central midfield displays at international level and his latter-day career games at central defence.

I think you should know your facts and history before you class people as "idiots".

Kevin Phillips started his career at Southampton as a right back. Essentially all these years he has been playing out of position as a striker!

Some players start in one position and mature into another.

For my money McGrath played 99% of his club career as a centre back the only time I remember him playing full back was for Ireland in Malta in the last qualifying game before Italia 90. Chris Morris was injured so McGrath played right back.

[Lionel Hutz]

Although he has only made a handful of appearences, I like many other Celtic fans believe Liam Miller could be the one!
Assuming he stays fit for a sustained period of time we will soon find out as he is now first choice replacment if either Lamber or Lennon get injured so this comming phase of champions league football may show us just how close he is OR isnt to being a quality midfielder

[Ultan]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
I wouldn't mind seing Kevin Hunt in an Ireland shirt, apparently he'll be a naturalised citizen this year and his family are Irish and he'd jump at the chance to play for us, he's good enough I think given our central mid field options.
Kev said last year that he thought people who played for countries that they had little connection with was "sad" and stated that he would never feel comfortable playing for another country other then Eng-ger-land.

[Ultan]

Originally posted by Seamus #1
Some players start in one position and mature into another.
Absolutely! And that was the point I was trying to make, and I hope everyone got, bar this joeSoap guy. Words like 'sharpest knife', 'drawer', and 'not the' come to mind...

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Ultan
Kev said last year that he thought people who played for countries that they had little connection with was "sad" and stated that he would never feel comfortable playing for another country other then Eng-ger-land.

He seems to have gone back on that though, I definitely saw him say recently he'd love to play for Ireland and would do given the chance.

[John83]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
He seems to have gone back on that though, I definitely saw him say recently he'd love to play for Ireland and would do given the chance.

Yeah, that was posted here, and met with mixed response. If he really wants to play, and if he's good enough, I wouldn't have a problem with that. On the other hand, lots of people would.

[sadloserkid]

Originally posted by Colm
No doubt I'll be laughed at for suggesting this but, if it's creativity you're looking for, I honestly believe George O'Callaghan is at least worth a try.

I'll laugh. Some games at eircom league level seem to pass him by lads so I can't see him playing a senior international.