IL attendances

[sonofstan]

It's probably been asked before but I can't find it:
1) Average attendances in the IL - both divisions?
2) Linfield and Glens averages?
3) High and low figures for both - I'm guessing the derbies skew them upwards; so I'd like know how many go to Windsor when Newry or whoever are the opposition as well as Glens or Cliftonville.

[Morrissey]

Coleraine are the only club who publish attendances.

Last season our average was 864, and was up for two years in succession. Another increase is expected. Without the Blues/Glens attendances I think it's around 700.

[AnnaghRed]

Probably round 800 in the premier league and 100 in the first division.

Would guess Linfield average round the 2000 mark, Glenturn round the 1500. Both probably pull in 8000 against each other, not in the setanta though.

Really are desperate times for domestic fitba in the north, and i cant see the new league boosting attendances at all.

[sonofstan]

Probably round 800 in the premier league and 100 in the first division.

Would guess Linfield average round the 2000 mark, Glenturn round the 1500. Both probably pull in 8000 against each other, not in the setanta though.

Really are desperate times for domestic fitba in the north, and i cant see the new league boosting attendances at all.

Thanks for that - I'm trying to get a picture of the financial situation of NI clubs, particularly the big two, in comparison with EL teams. 2 and 1.5 K would put them about on a par with Bohs and Pats respectively in terms of gate revenue? (and a good bit below Derry and Cork) BTW, am I correct in thinking that VAT is payable on ticket sales in the UK?

[Steve Bruce]

Linfields average is higher than 2000. We have over 2000 season ticket holders for a start.

I'd say without Glentoran games our average would hover around the 2500 mark. With the Glentoran games, our average would exceed the 3000 mark.

This year our average would probably be closer to 3500 because we will be playing the Glens 1 extra game and Cliftonville as well.

I don't know much about the Glentoran averages.

[Steve Bruce]

Thanks for that - I'm trying to get a picture of the financial situation of NI clubs, particularly the big two, in comparison with EL teams. 2 and 1.5 K would put them about on a par with Bohs and Pats respectively in terms of gate revenue? (and a good bit below Derry and Cork) BTW, am I correct in thinking that VAT is payable on ticket sales in the UK?

Vat is payable AFAIK.

[AnnaghRed]

Thanks for that - I'm trying to get a picture of the financial situation of NI clubs, particularly the big two, in comparison with EL teams. 2 and 1.5 K would put them about on a par with Bohs and Pats respectively in terms of gate revenue? (and a good bit below Derry and Cork) BTW, am I correct in thinking that VAT is payable on ticket sales in the UK?


Afaik we pay vat on gate receipts, think Derry fans have complained on here about it in the past.

[AnnaghRed]

Certainly v's Portadown there'd normally be about 3000 Bluemen at Windsor, but there were crowds of less than 1000 being mentioned last season on ILF for some of the midweek games.

[sonofstan]

Thanks lads - last question: are attendances a) increasing, b) declining, or c) about the same? (say over a 10 year period?)

[Mr_Parker]

Thanks lads - last question: are attendances a) increasing, b) declining, or c) about the same? (say over a 10 year period?)

Are you working for Platinum 1? :D

[AnnaghRed]

Thanks lads - last question: are attendances a) increasing, b) declining, or c) about the same? (say over a 10 year period?)

Declining drastically, at Shamrock anyway....found these "official" figures on ILF:

"average league gates are 1,970" for Glentoran

"taken our numbers beyond 7-800 which is what we were getting this season" for Ballymena

[sonofstan]

Are you working for Platinum 1? :D


Rumbled :D

[Mr_Parker]

Declining drastically, at Shamrock anyway....found these "official" figures on ILF:

"average league gates are 1,970" for Glentoran

"taken our numbers beyond 7-800 which is what we were getting this season" for Ballymena
Anything you read on forums must be taken with a large pinch of salt especially in regards attendance figures in the IL.

Though if sonofstan is really doing some work for Platinum 1 widely sweeping guestimates and genralisations seem to be the norm for them. :D

[Mr_Parker]

Rumbled :D
:eek:

[sonofstan]

:eek:

Eh, no not really........ just wondering at the comparative health of the game on either side of the border. My impression is that outside the big two, it's in slightly worse shape in the North, but that Glens and Linfield have large dormant support (not as dormant as the mythical Rovers millions, though), and, in a pro AIL could dominate. Also, if, as it appears, their attendances are as high as the highest in the EL, Bar Cork, it's interesting that neither are professional - is it because they can dominate anyway, or financial conservatism (probably welcome, I wouldn't wish EL style accounting on anyone else)?

[pineapple stu]

It's probably because the full-time pro teams in the eL (Cork, Drogs, Pat's and Bohs anyway) couldn't sustain full time football without losing a million a year like they are. The IL clubs presumably don't have a Vincent Hoey/Garrett/Kelleher/Arkaga to back this up and so can't afford it, just like those eL clubs couldn't afford it (with the possible exception of Cork) without their backers.

I had a go at an attendances thread on the old IL message board; the board went down for a couple of weeks which took the run out of it, and I got accused every now and again of working for MI6 or just being an eL fan who wanted to embarrass the IL, but I got attendances for about 60% of the games over about the first half of a season. Outside the top two, you're talking First Division level here. Loughgall were getting 100 or less at the lower end; most were getting 400 or so. Obviously that'll change with the smaller Premier.

[Steve Bruce]

Certainly v's Portadown there'd normally be about 3000 Bluemen at Windsor, but there were crowds of less than 1000 being mentioned last season on ILF for some of the midweek games.

We are talking league averages and there wasn't 1 Linfield league game with less than 1000 or even close at Windsor.

[Steve Bruce]

The reason why we don’t have full-time teams is because our prize money is woeful, our tv money is woeful and there is no funding coming into our game.

Linfield are a club made up of members and elected board members. So we will never have the possibility or advantage of a big businessman willing to sink a lot of money into our club.

So before we can become full-time, we need to be generating enough money to sustain a full-time squad. I reckon for Linfield to be able to sustain a squad of 18 full-time professional footballers we would need an average of 5,000-7,000 or maybe more, for it to be sustainable and keep us in good financial footing.

And those sort of crowds will not happen for a very long time if ever.

[sonofstan]

The reason why we don’t have full-time teams is because our prize money is woeful, our tv money is woeful and there is no funding coming into our game.

Linfield are a club made up of members and elected board members. So we will never have the possibility or advantage of a big businessman willing to sink a lot of money into our club.

So before we can become full-time, we need to be generating enough money to sustain a full-time squad. I reckon for Linfield to be able to sustain a squad of 18 full-time professional footballers we would need an average of 5,000-7,000 or maybe more, for it to be sustainable and keep us in good financial footing.

And those sort of crowds will not happen for a very long time if ever.

Well effectively that's Bohs position too - which is why we 'have to' sell Dalymount in order to compete with Cork/ Drogs/Pats, and their sugar daddies

Although at least you have the advantage that your association retained Windsor as a national stadium, as opposed to the FAI abandoning Dalyer....it must bring in some income over and above what you get for your own games?

[Morrissey]

it must bring in some income over and above what you get for your own games?

Some.

[BleusAvantTout]

Although at least you have the advantage that your association retained Windsor as a national stadium, as opposed to the FAI abandoning Dalyer....it must bring in some income over and above what you get for your own games?

A relatively small amount, given our fans' contributions!! ;) :)

[Schumi]

before we can become full-time, we need to be generating enough money to sustain a full-time squad.You'll never get invited into an AIL with talk like that. :eek:

[Steve Bruce]

Well effectively that's Bohs position too - which is why we 'have to' sell Dalymount in order to compete with Cork/ Drogs/Pats, and their sugar daddies

Although at least you have the advantage that your association retained Windsor as a national stadium, as opposed to the FAI abandoning Dalyer....it must bring in some income over and above what you get for your own games?

When you take in the expenses etc, we haven't had much more than 100k the last two calender years.

[Steve Bruce]

You'll never get invited into an AIL with talk like that. :eek:

Don't really give two hoots about it to be honest. I would rather we worked within our means rather than be in the hands of 1 individual who can pull out anytime he/she likes and be left in the sh*t

[AnnaghRed]

We are talking league averages and there wasn't 1 Linfield league game with less than 1000 or even close at Windsor.

Apologies. Going by your fixture list last season it must have been the Irish Cup QF replay v's Newry

"There were only maybe 650 people at the Newry match midweek compared with something like 2,300 at the Larne match"

[AnnaghRed]

Anything you read on forums must be taken with a large pinch of salt especially in regards attendance figures in the IL.

I'm not allowed salt. Which of the few guesstimates available would you disagree with?