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Mr A
25/07/2008, 2:39 PM
Back in the 70's a lot of fading stars from the English League guested for Irish clubs. They got big fees but I think the clubs hoped the extra crowds would cover it.

So who played for what club and when? And where they any good?

gspain
25/07/2008, 2:50 PM
A few off the top of my head

Dixie Dean played with Sligo in the 1939 cup final

Raich Carter and Jimmy Delaney played with Cork Athletic

George Best played with Cork Celtic

Bobby Charlton played with Waterford

Gordon Banks played with St Pats

Uwe Seeler played with Cork Celtic

Jimmy Johnstone played with Shels I think.

Trevor Brooking and Terry McDermott played with Cork City.

Mr A
25/07/2008, 2:54 PM
Didn't Dixie Dean play with Sligo for a while though? I think I read that he spent a season or two there but maybe I'm mistaken.

gspain
25/07/2008, 3:49 PM
Didn't Dixie Dean play with Sligo for a while though? I think I read that he spent a season or two there but maybe I'm mistaken.


Just the cup final and replay I think. Raich Carter and Jimmy Delaney were only over for the cup as well I think.

We had Malcolm McDonald in Limerick but he never played jsut took a penalty before a game v Dundalk in 1979. Drogheda signed Ron Abott of QPR a few months after he had retired for a cup game v us in 1980. When he wasn't named in the team an enquiry learned that he had flown into Dublin airport that morning at least 3 stone over his playing weight and they put him straight back home on the next plane.

Many of these players were just signed for the cup.

We did sign John McDermott from Manchester United for the 1979 cup campaign. I bet no Man Utd fan has ever heard of him because he was useless.

Dodge
25/07/2008, 3:57 PM
One of the last of this type was Frank worthington signing for Galway. Remember my dad just laughing at the state of him in Richmond Park. Most of the others before my time but most older Pats fans talk about a save banks made against Rovers being better than the "one" v Pele in 1970

pineapple stu
25/07/2008, 4:01 PM
Article on STIGonline (http://www.stigonline.com/misc/art0507051.htm) about some, though not all, of said players.

Also, a similar one (http://www.stigonline.com/misc/art2806052.htm) about famous people to have played for UCD at various stages (although Ollie doesn't get a mention; must fix that I suppose).

Jeebus
25/07/2008, 4:08 PM
Didn't Dixie Dean play with Sligo for a while though? I think I read that he spent a season or two there but maybe I'm mistaken.


Just the cup final and replay I think. Raich Carter and Jimmy Delaney were only over for the cup as well I think.


He signed in January 1939 and played until the end of the season, his last game being the FAI cup final replay.

See below taken from here: http://www.sligorovers.com/content/view/19/226/

Dixie comes to Town
In the 1938/39 season Rovers league form was again very good on this occasion they finished second nine points behind the eventual winners Shamrock Rovers. This was however a remarkable season for the club as one of the most enduring pieces of the club's history was about to unfold. Though they opened the campaign with a defeat to Shelbourne they then had a six match unbeaten run. Rovers couldn't find a settled side during this period with chopping and changing in almost all positions. The club then shook the foundations of Irish Football to the core. In January 1989 Rovers announced that they had signed William Ralph Dean known to the football world as ‘Dixie’.
Dixie was generally regarded as being the best footballer of his generation as his career which had started with Tranmere Rovers took him to his beloved Everton before ending his career in England with Notts County. For a player of his stature to sign for Sligo Rovers in the League of Ireland was sensational. The railway station was packed as the former England international arrived in town for duty. His first appearance saw him score as Rovers beat Shelbourne 3 - 2. In his seven league games for Rovers Dixie scored ten goals including five in a 7-1 win over Waterford which remains the clubs record goals haul for a single game. Rovers eventually finished runners-up in the league nine points behind the winners Shamrock Rovers.
Dixie also played in four FAI Cup games for Rovers. Rovers beat Cork in the first round by two goals to one before defeating Distillery in the second round by the same score. Rovers then had their first ever cup win against Dundalk in the semi-final to qualify for their first ever cup final. A crowd of 36,601 turned up for the final. With two minutes to go to half time Dean headed Rovers into the lead. Shelbourne equalised straight from a corner with only ten minutes left to leave the score at 1 - 1. The replay was won by Shelbourne by a slender 1-0 margin when "Sacky" Glen scored from a free kick and success in the blue riband would have to wait. 28,369 spectators turned up to watch the replay.

Rovers team for the final was:

Cranston,McDaid,Livesley,Peachey,Hay,
Burns, Began, Monaghan, O'Connor, Johnston, Dean
For the replay Graham replaced left half Burns in the Rovers team.

stann
26/07/2008, 3:59 PM
Didn't Terry Venables play for someone here too, Pat's maybe?
Bobby Tambling played for the Blues for a season in the 70's too, and he'd been at one of the Cork sides before that.
Dick Long or Bluemovie will surely have the details. :)

Oh and what about Carlton Palmer at Dublin City, did he ever actually kick a ball in anger though? :D

brandy86
26/07/2008, 5:30 PM
Mike Channon had one very brief appearence in a Harps jersey in 1986.

He lasted 50mins in a 2-2 draw against Cobh in a League Cup game, before an old ankle injury got the better of him.

He returned to England a few days later.

Dodge
26/07/2008, 5:44 PM
Didn't Terry Venables play for someone here too, Pat's maybe?


Twice. When a journo went to ask him about before a preseason friendly before "Terry, can I have aquick word about your time at St Pats?"

He replied "You can have two words, twice and rubbish"

I maybe paraphrasing some of that

Burny89
27/07/2008, 8:52 PM
luthur blissett ;)

played one game for Derry in Galway, was an awful sight

monutdfc
28/07/2008, 10:19 AM
I bought a fanzine at a Shels game about 5 years ago with a great article on all these guest appearances. It wasn't a Shel's fanzine, just some football history buff production. I'll see if I can dig it out (unlikely!), but someone might have seen the same thing.

TheBoss
28/07/2008, 3:05 PM
Sam Allardyce - Limerick 1991-92
Ian Callaghan - Cork United 1980-82

Dodge
28/07/2008, 3:06 PM
Allyrdyce wasn't a guest. he was player manager

TheBoss
28/07/2008, 3:15 PM
He was the manager for the 93 season.

Dodge
28/07/2008, 3:17 PM
he wouldn't have been famous enough to be a guest IMO. He'd have just been a jobbing pro

dublinred
28/07/2008, 3:18 PM
Roddy Collins guested a few times for Sligo Rovers in the early nineties, he left to go to a wedding.

Lionel Ritchie
28/07/2008, 4:21 PM
luthur blissett ;)

played one game for Derry in Galway, was an awful sight

He played against Limerick in Rathbane as well.

deecay
30/07/2008, 1:09 PM
I do not remember these 'guests',well I wouldnt have been around for most of them but ive never herd the term before.Did they come in on a game by game contract or unoffically?

Dodge
30/07/2008, 1:20 PM
I do not remember these 'guests',well I wouldnt have been around for most of them but ive never herd the term before.Did they come in on a game by game contract or unoffically?
Usually came in for 1 or 2 games. Only signed as publicity stunts. Most of them were in ther late 30s/early 40s and had "retired" from football. Either got paid huge money, or more likely decent wage and a cut of the gate.

gilberto_eire
30/07/2008, 1:34 PM
Mike Channon had one very brief appearence in a Harps jersey in 1986.

He lasted 50mins in a 2-2 draw against Cobh in a League Cup game, before an old ankle injury got the better of him.

He returned to England a few days later.

That Mick Channon footballer turned horse-racing trainer?

Mr A
30/07/2008, 5:16 PM
Yip, the same dude.

Red&White Rover
06/08/2008, 10:08 PM
Socrates...I'm certain I read somewhere he was going to play with some LOI club (possibly UCD) but the then manager wouldn't play him, because he wouldn't stop smoking?

Dodge
06/08/2008, 10:18 PM
Socrates...I'm certain I read somewhere he was going to play with some LOI club (possibly UCD) but the then manager wouldn't play him, because he wouldn't stop smoking?

Total rubbish

Red&White Rover
06/08/2008, 10:46 PM
Total rubbish

Valuable input, thank you for your evidently, very important opinion. People must listen to you.

I'm certain, that I read a quote from the manager on this. Socrates may have been studying at the time?

Just seems a bit abstract to be made up.

Dodge
06/08/2008, 11:05 PM
Socrates has never ever ever played for an Irish team, managed an irish team, or formally been approached by an Irish team

But believe whatever bull**** you like

Red&White Rover
07/08/2008, 12:42 AM
Socrates has never ever ever played for an Irish team, managed an irish team, or formally been approached by an Irish team



You were his agent so?

Apparently he did his degree (or part of it) at the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin.

Red&White Rover
07/08/2008, 12:49 AM
Before he became a doctor (and a famous footballer) Brazilian footballer Socrates apparently spent some of his student years in Dublin. My memory is hazy but I think I was told that while there he played for University College Dublin (UCD) in the FAI Cup, or it could have been that he only managed to make the UCD reserve team. Is there any truth to these unlikely stories? if so, maybe that's where he picked up his smoking habit", writes Colman Walsh

Amazingly enough Colman, you're right. "Socrates did play for UCD, but it was way, way back, sometime in the 70s." says Brendan McKenna of the Football Association of Ireland. "He was an attraction at the time, but it was before he played for the Brazilian team. He wouldn't have played much more than a season." That's confirmed by Gerry Callan of the Irish Star, who says he thinks Socrates did play for UCD, but only for the reserves on Saturday's as the first team played on Sunday, and he didn't want to play then.


More information about Socrates playing for UCD reserves in the 1970s. According to Paul McDonnell, Scorates only played a couple of games because the coach and manager at the time, Dr Terry O'Neill, insisted that he quit smoking. Socrates refused and instead quit the team

So how do you like your humble pie then Dodge?

Evidently there's more to this story then being "absolute rubbish" as you suggested.

DmanDmythDledge
07/08/2008, 12:52 AM
You were his agent so?

Apparently he did his degree (or part of it) at the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin.
Have a look at this (http://web.archive.org/web/20071120133156/http://www.ofutebol.com/AskAlex.aspx?month=April&year=2003). About 3/4 of the way down...


Question:
(06 April 2003) Dear Alex,

Just reading your brilliant book, thank you for such a fascinating glimpse of Brazil. It really reflects what Simon Kuper wrote about football being one of the best ways to understand the daily life of a country.

I have two enquiries. Firstly about Socrates - I have often heard the urban legend that he was a medical student here in Ireland. I've heard two versions of the story - in one he was studying for a time in the Royal College of Surgeons, asked one day if there was any football around and was sent out to play with Bohemians reserves. The other has him in my own alma mater University College Dublin and winning the Collingwood Cup, an inter collegiate football tournament while here. I would be very grateful if you could tell me if there is any truth to either story.

Secondly, a common story here in Ireland is that Pele's nickname derives from "peile", the Gaelic for football (more usually the Gaelic version), which Irish nuns gave the young Edson. I know in the book you write that the origin of Pele is unknown, and I recall Pele in interviews saying he didn't know himself, but just another theory you mightn't have heard before.
Finally, its only polite to tell you that I write occasional articles for the Irish medical press, I was thinking of maybe pitching a brief one about your book focusing on the Socrates angle.

Thanks

Seamus Sweeney
seamus.sweeney@campus.ie

Response:
I never realized that Brazilian football had such an Irish connection!

Both are delightful stories and I wish they were both true....

So I emailed Socrates and asked him. He replied: "I've never been to Dublin."

Then I emailed Pepito Fornos, who has worked with Pel? for decades.

He wrote: "The explanation makes no sense at all. It's absurd".

"There is only one explanation - Pel?'s dad, Dondinho, played for a team in Bauru, in Sao Paulo State, whose goalie was called Bil?. Pel?, aged eight, when he messed around in goal in the streets, said he was Bil? - and his friends thought he was saying Pel?. The name stuck, even though Pel? didn?t like it, but he got used to it."

So that's the official line - although I'm sure new explanations for Pel?'s name will carry on appearing as will stories from Socrates' past.

Red&White Rover
07/08/2008, 12:55 AM
I can't deny that obviously, but I do find it hard to believe that such a story can substantiate out of nothing?

THere's no smoke without fire etc...

DmanDmythDledge
07/08/2008, 1:22 AM
There's plenty of myths about him playing in Ireland. Many of the stories contradict each other, which I think further proves that it is just some form of Chineese whispers.

This (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=380588#post380588) is actually article written about it, but can not be true as Socrates played for Botafogo during the time he was apparantly in Ireland. It was written though before the information in the link I gave above was found.

Dodge
07/08/2008, 1:27 AM
I can't deny that obviously, but I do find it hard to believe that such a story can substantiate out of nothing?

THere's no smoke without fire etc...


Now, about that humble pie...

Its been done to death 100s of times of this and other message boards. He's never even been to Ireland. Case closed?

drummerboy
07/08/2008, 9:13 AM
Barry Bridges played for Pats for a few years.
Jimmy Johnstone played with Shels but spent most of his time in Leeson Street. There was another ex Celtic player with Shels at the time.

pineapple stu
07/08/2008, 9:35 AM
The Socrates thing is nonsense.

Funnily enough, it appeared on UTV Teletext in an "Ask The Gaffer" kind of piece. They contacted the FAI, who said it was true. Muppets.

gspain
07/08/2008, 3:17 PM
There are other urban myths

Panathanaikos wear green and have the shamrock as their emblem because they were founded by an Irishman. Not true they are as Irish as Celtic.

Germany wear green as their 2nd strip because we were the first country to play them after the war. Not true

monutdfc
07/08/2008, 3:37 PM
I bought a fanzine at a Shels game about 5 years ago with a great article on all these guest appearances. It wasn't a Shel's fanzine, just some football history buff production. I'll see if I can dig it out (unlikely!), but someone might have seen the same thing.
Dug it out - it's called League of Ireland Trainspotter, volume 2. There's a contact name and address on the front, PM me and I'll give you the details

Dodge
07/08/2008, 3:51 PM
Barry Bridges played for Pats for a few years.

Player manager, and then just manager

geysir
07/08/2008, 8:15 PM
I went see Bobby Charlton at Dalymount, Bohs V Waterford.
He wasn't fit as if he hadn't played at all for a year but still showed some class. Near the end, out of the blue he scored after he hit a scorcher from distance.
I only remember him playing one game in the LOI.
Stigonline (http://www.stigonline.com/misc/art0507051.htm) has him playing a bit and scoring once. But all other records have him playing for a season for Waterford and scoring 16 goals.

Calcio Jack
14/08/2008, 9:43 AM
Most of the others before my time but most older Pats fans talk about a save banks made against Rovers being better than the "one" v Pele in 1970[/QUOTE]

I was at the game and can vouch for that...it's still for me is the best save I'ver ever seen..what was even more impressive was the fact that Banks had retired a few years previousely because of injuries sustained to one of his eyes in a car crash and the damaged eye had little vision.... the ground was packed... Pat's won 1-0 although Rovers were the better team (honestly) and the save was from a rocket volley from none other than Eamon Dunphy at the shed end.

stann
07/09/2008, 12:29 PM
I went see Bobby Charlton at Dalymount, Bohs V Waterford.
He wasn't fit as if he hadn't played at all for a year but still showed some class. Near the end, out of the blue he scored after he hit a scorcher from distance.
I only remember him playing one game in the LOI.
Stigonline (http://www.stigonline.com/misc/art0507051.htm) has him playing a bit and scoring once. But all other records have him playing for a season for Waterford and scoring 16 goals.

Stigonline is right, to the best of my knowledge.
Bobby only played a handful of games (4 is the number in my head) and scored maybe the once. I think I can check that fairly definitively later on today, but there's no way it was a full season and 16 goals is miles off!

the-blue-harp
07/09/2008, 9:43 PM
Mike Channon had one very brief appearence in a Harps jersey in 1986.

He lasted 50mins in a 2-2 draw against Cobh in a League Cup game, before an old ankle injury got the better of him.

He returned to England a few days later.

he actually had a very bad car crash a few weeks back.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/racing/article4628465.ece

srfc1928
10/09/2008, 10:14 AM
I vaguely remember Peter Barnes, Ex Manchester City, played a few games for Drogheda.

seand
16/04/2010, 4:33 PM
Just to put the Socrates one to bed, once and for all! ....

http://thespectator-seand.blogspot.com/2010/04/spectator-and-legendary-socrates.html

pineapple stu
16/04/2010, 4:45 PM
That was in the Dundalk programme against us, yeah?

A UCD fan was the one who contacted Bellos about it in the first place; he was doing an article for our programme. If that didn't put it to bed, I don't think the same article in the Dundalk programme will, unfortunately. I even contacted Garforth Town when Socrates was with them, and they suggested I ask Bellos...

For a while, Socrates' wiki says he played for UCD, but UCD's wiki says he didn't. I think that sums up wikipedia in a nutshell.