NRA Object to Drogheda Ground Plans

[Mr A]

Drogs stadium plans on hold

July 16, 2008

Drogheda United have been dealt a set back in their bid to build a new state-of-the-art stadium, even though the project had been given the green light by the local authority.

The Drogs and Doyle Development Ltd have plans to build a new stadium with all facilities as well as retail Warehouse Park on a 25,925 hectare site at Bryanstown, Beymore, Co Meath.

Planning permission was granted by the Meath County Council in June, but now the National Roads Authority has appealed to An Bord Pleanala, meaning that the project may well be held up for a long period or stopped altogether.

Full story here: http://www.eleven-a-side.com/premier/news.asp?n=33184

[Duggie]

unbelievable - there's always one who will oppose development. hope drogs can press on soon.

[GuisaSaigon]

No Surrender to NRA!

[Fivesilver]

That bloody Charlton Heston - he just doesn't know when to lay off.

[Redie]

That bloody Charlton Heston - he just doesn't know when to lay off.

Ya! Even being dead doesn't stop him

[jinxy lilywhite]

Dissappointment for them again.
If I was an drog official I would be gunning the engineer or architect. Surely they would of known what the NRA recommendations are in relation to developments of this stature or that the NRA would of been consulted.
From the NRA's point of view it is a reasonable concern but there just seems to be always an obstacle against clubs trying to provide proper infrastructural changes to make football better. Its democracy and we live in a democratic society.

[Mr A]

According to the Drogheda forum the Phoenix carried a story this week saying the project was on the brink of collapse and that the lead developer had walked away.

[holidaysong]

How long are the FAI going to allow them to continue using United Park?

[Rovers Maniac]

How long are the FAI going to allow them to continue using United Park?

Is that not that skit/joke newspaper?

[LeixlipRed]

Is that not that skit/joke newspaper?

Haha, what?? First of all it's a magazine. Secondly why would it make stuff up about EL stadium deals as a joke? It has a humorous tone but is a serious publication.

[HarpoJoyce]

Haha, what?? First of all it's a magazine. Secondly why would it make stuff up about EL stadium deals as a joke? It has a humorous tone but is a serious publication.

It does consider itself a serious publication. But it is vunerable to a disgruntled or biased source. It is not slow to publish embellishments to justify the article or because it has a big target in it's sights of the Construction/Financial or Legal Industries. And they're just private industries any Public Institutions that get caught up in a story is also welcome. The site is linked to both Louth and Meath C.C.'s it would see itself as Public interest to publish stories that are deterimental to both bodies.

I go along with Jinxy Lilywhite at the moment in that planning processes take time. DUFC have won over two County Councils providing the process can be kept fresh, both should continue to support the club.

[Longfordian]

Doesn't surpise me. We had plans submitted for developing Flancare a little,they were opposed by the NRA twice whose lead the Council followed. It'll be interesting to see how An Bord Pleanala rules.

[OneRedArmy]

I can't see any mixed use development getting one cent of funding in the current climate. The NRA are the least of Drogs worries.

At least they still have United Park.

Its interesting how the tables have turned in 6 short months when all these property plays (Bohs, Pats, Drogs) were going to take over the world.

[pete]

Seems to me a pathetic decision by the NRA. Why wait so long to object as hardly a secret this was planned.

If we do not build facilities next to motorways where do we put them? On rural back roads? :confused:

Based my observations of the NRA the years I can say they incompetent at best. Forwad planning is not part of their remit.

[RonnieB]

Doesn't surpise me. We had plans submitted for developing Flancare a little,they were opposed by the NRA twice whose lead the Council followed. It'll be interesting to see how An Bord Pleanala rules.


Was that for the development of the shop units Longfordian?

[Longfordian]

Yeah that's the one. Shop units and bar/restaurant. The shop units were then dropped and the proposal resubmitted and again they objected.

[RonnieB]

:( it is always an uphill battle. They would hardly impact on the passing road such is the space infront of the ground.

[jinxy lilywhite]

The NRA probably held off with their objection until they where consulted. When they weren't going to be consulted they lodged their objection as retaliation. The issue I am led to believe is over parking spaces and matchday traffic. It was said on Oriel web that a specified no of parking spaces need to allocated. One space for every 3 seats. so they need 3-4000 spaces and drogheda only included 500 spaces. They would be worried then of off road parking or even worse parking on the M1 or maybe on the off ramp. I think this is the NRA's gripe but somebody in the planning stages should of known this and should of known the limitations.

On a personal level I know how frustrating it can be when an bord plannala get involved. I had pp for a house in and passed by louth cc only for someone to appeal to an bord pleannla. On six occasion when the hearing was to be made they kept putting it back and delaying their decision by a month at a time. we where advised 4 months but it took 10 months for the feckers to say no. mightn't be until next year until an agreement is reached

[pineapple stu]

3-4000 spaces and drogheda only included 500 spaces. They would be worried then of off road parking or even worse parking on the M1 or maybe on the off ramp. I think this is the NRA's gripe but somebody in the planning stages should of known this and should of known the limitations.

On the East Meath blog (http://eastmeath.org/blog/) page (and it should straight away be noted that the blog contains the line "Can you imaging some bewildered Sligo Town fan arriving in our fair city after a 3 hour drive accross Ireland on a wet Monday in January and looking for the shuttle bus? I can’t", at an error rate of about three per word), it suggests that parking in the town is the main option. It doesn't note that that's what happens at present though, and it bases its objections on a capacity 9000 crowd, which I'm sure we can all agree would be a rarity. It says 300 parking spaces will be available on match day, though, which is still very few.

[pete]

One space for every 3 seats.

Absolutely insanity. If that was the case no new stadium could be built. Fro the plans you can already see that Drosg were asked to place the stadium further away from the roundabout so that traffic did not back up onto.

The NRA has already approved IKEA next to the M50 which carries a lot more traffic than the M1..

It should be remembered the amount of u-turns the NRA have done on their motorway policies - width of central medians, central median barriers, service areas, rest stops on National roads. All these policies were defended for years until they finally did 180.

[Schumi]

I don't see why the NRA are objecting to this. You'd imagine there'd be little enough traffic coming to the stadium from the M1 as people driving from Drogheda wouldn't go that way. AFAIK, the NRA only has a remit for national roads so what would go on on the smaller roads to the stadium from Drogheda doesn't concern them.


it bases its objections on a capacity 9000 crowd, which I'm sure we can all agree would be a rarity. That's not really relevant. If you're building a 10,000 seater stadium, you have to be able to deal 10,000 people going to it. Otherwise, why would you build it that size?

[pineapple stu]

Fair point.

[OneRedArmy]

Do any of the Drogs fans know where the project is with funding?

[mypost]

If we do not build facilities next to motorways where do we put them? On rural back roads? :confused:

The back of housing estates, where most grounds are located. :o

[monutdfc]

Hypocrisy by the NRA. They are happy for their FF chums to build Hotels, Retail Parks and whatever else you are having beside motorways and by-passes, directly in contradiction with proper planning. Indeed the NRA facilitate it with Dempsey appointing his cousin, Navan estate agent Raymond Potterton to the board of the NRA whilst FF supporters were building up land-banks along the route of the N3 (that's the real reason they wouldn't re-route it, imo).

[redobit]

The NRA are clearly following the guidelines as set out in the Meath County Development Plan. If its anyone fault its the architect/ designer, from experience parking is a major issue due to the area it takes up on a development.
If the architect cannot accomplish the required no. of spaces, an alternative is usually found at the start of a project, for eg. a payment per parking space for the shortfall required as per the development plan.

'if you build it they will come' - put ye hav to giv em somewhere to park!

[thischarmingman]

One space for every 3 seats.

It's a football stadium ffs, a sizeable portion will be coming by bus.

[pineapple stu]

What about concerts?

[Kildareman]

At a rate of one space for three seats, then how did Croke Park or Lansdowne Road get planning permission???:confused:

[SMorgan]

What Drogheda are proposing in terms of parking is unbelievable. They are proposing 300 spaces for a stadium for over 10,000. They are saying that fans will use public transport!!

They have left themselves wide open to objection and I am fairly sure that permission will be refused on appeal. The ground is out of town and beside a motorway for goodness sake!!

[Greenforever]

What Drogheda are proposing in terms of parking is unbelievable. They are proposing 300 spaces for a stadium for over 10,000. They are saying that fans will use public transport!!

They have left themselves wide open to objection and I am fairly sure that permission will be refused on appeal. The ground is out of town and beside a motorway for goodness sake!!


And Croke Park has NO parking, but then it only holds 82,000+ people, why would it have parking,

Lansdowne Road got planning with no parking, it's only an after tought that they are putting in an underground car park.

Pure hypocrosy from the NRA IMO.

[John83]

At a rate of one space for three seats, then how did Croke Park or Lansdowne Road get planning permission???:confused:
Croker is a 10 minute walk from the the greatest concentration of public transport in the country - Dublin city centre.

Likewise, if I want to get to Lansdowne, I can get any of a dozen buses, a Luas route, a DART route, I can cycle, I can get a taxi, I can even bloody well walk. Granted, note everyone lives in my house, but you get the idea. It has good transport links from throughout Dublin, which can certainly take any amount of parking (and generally does).

These are historic stadia, built before good planning was aspired to. Exceptions get made.

[pete]

What Drogheda are proposing in terms of parking is unbelievable. They are proposing 300 spaces for a stadium for over 10,000. They are saying that fans will use public transport!!


While it seems low it is possibly more than any other stadium in the country.

Why are the NRA objecting based on parking? Should that not be the remit of the local authority? The stadium looks far enough away from the M1 that there would not be significant backup on the off ramp.

If Bertie Bowl was built would it have required 20,000 parking spaces? :confused:

[A face]

Whats the situation with this now? What options do the club have?

[Macy]

It's a football stadium ffs, a sizeable portion will be coming by bus.
I wouldn't think so, and a sizeable portion will probably come on their own in a car.

As others have said, it's a pity the NRA weren't more consistent when it comes to their FF buddies, but hard to argue when 300 spaces for 10,000 capacity.

Lansdowne has good transport links, and a history of people using them. Parking has always been an issue around Croke Park, but again, nobody will dare take on the politicians on that one. However, would either of them be directly effecting NRA controlled routes?

[galwayhoop]

a couple of points/queries on this:

what is the developers stance on this whole thing? i seem to remember he was going to build something like 5,000 houses and a town centre type retail park along with the stadium. He was only really building the stadium to let him do the other stuff which is hardly worthwhile to him in the current environment.

generally if a stadium is being re-vamped they will pay a contribution toward parking as it is unfeasible to expect them to acquire extra land for parking on a developed site. however, on new developments it is essential to meet all parking criteria and foolish not to look at it as most developments nowadays are refused on parking (or lack thereof). Who submitted the planning application Drogs or the developer???

Galwegians RFC were recently granted planning for a new greenfield development around bushy park. The NRA objected with concerns about traffic coming to and leaving the facility (not matchday traffic apparently but young lads getting dropped up to and collected from training). Most (if not all) of the traffic would be outside rush hour or indeed outside weekday (daytime). The facility is located adjacent to a national route which has been developed by the NRA and Galway City Council over recent years. The decision has no been reversed and the project is on hold. I mean if the NRA/Galway City Council build roads to cater with busy traffic all week surely a few young lads getting dropped to training shouldn't massively affect traffic movement but obviously it does in their eyes. They are hands down THE most dangerous objector to any development, ever worse than the tree huggers!!

I fear the Drog stadium saga is only starting.

[SMorgan]

And Croke Park has NO parking, but then it only holds 82,000+ people, why would it have parking,

Lansdowne Road got planning with no parking, it's only an after tought that they are putting in an underground car park.

Pure hypocrosy from the NRA IMO.

There is absolutely no hypocrisy, whatsoever. The Planning process always uses the status-quo as the baseline. If you are replacing a stadium then the planning process demands (and can only demand) that you don't make a situation any worse that it already was/is before the developement or redevelopement. There is no requirement to provide a planning gain, and you can't trade off car aprking against a new road.

However, the exact same thing applies when you are building a new stadium. The situation should be no worse than it was before the development took place in relation to ALL aspects of the development.

We've had all this arguement about Croke Park at the time that Rovers were asked to provide a large number of car parking spaces at their new ground.



I fear the Drog stadium saga is only starting.

Oh, I fear the Drogheda project is a deadman walking. I don't believe it will happen.

[pete]

We've had all this arguement about Croke Park at the time that Rovers were asked to provide a large number of car parking spaces at their new ground.

Rovers were required to have huge amount of parking despite having access to public transport.

Were the IRFU required to increase car parking spaces when they almost doubled the capacity of Thomond Park? I suspect they were not because the NRA had no stake in that.

As stated above I believe the NRA make up policy as they go along & can change that on whim of public or political pressure. Drogs should nag local politicians if they want to change.

[SalvadorSanchez]

Hang on didn't Athlone build a 2,000 seat, 6,000 capacity ground right beside the N6 in Athlone? so that would be what? almost 700 spaces as per the one car space per seat rule..... oh sorry that's right... they don't give sh1t about any infrastructure west of Athlone....

Oh the flip side we at Galway United are so keen to comply with the regulations our fans are staying away because of our 120 space car park :p

[SalvadorSanchez]

Hang on didn't Athlone build a 2,000 seat, 6,000 capacity ground right beside the N6 in Athlone? so that would be what? almost 700 spaces as per the one car space per seat rule..... oh sorry that's right... they don't give sh1t about any infrastructure west of Athlone....

Oh the flip side we at Galway United are so keen to comply with the regulations our fans are staying away because of our 120 space car park :p

as per the one car space per 3 seat rule

[Celdrog]

However, the exact same thing applies when you are building a new stadium. The situation should be no worse than it was before the development took place in relation to ALL aspects of the development.
Oh, I fear the Drogheda project is a deadman walking. I don't believe it will happen.
United Park has about 25 parking spaces for a 6,000 capacity stadium. 300 for a 10,000 capacity would hardly be worse than currently.
There are actually going to be 1,800 parking spaces there, for the leisure centre, shops etc.

How many parking spaces did Punchestown allot for Oxygen (or the racing festival). If you want to go to a big game or concert then get the bus. Otherwise tough.

However you seem to know all so we will bow to your superior knowledge.

[Rovers Maniac]

United Park has about 25 parking spaces for a 6,000 capacity stadium. 300 for a 10,000 capacity would hardly be worse than currently.
There are actually going to be 1,800 parking spaces there, for the leisure centre, shops etc.

How many parking spaces did Punchestown allot for Oxygen (or the racing festival). If you want to go to a big game or concert then get the bus. Otherwise tough.

However you seem to know all so we will bow to your superior knowledge.

Yes but how many car Park spaces are set aside for the stadium, not near that. Also it beside a motorway.

[jinxy lilywhite]

I do say this with empathy for the Drogheda plight but they really have nobody to blame but themselves. If I where a drogheda official I would sue the ass of the engineer and architects involved. Somebody should of known what the full SP was with the NRA and parking allocations. Procedures are procedures

[Celdrog]

Yes but how many car Park spaces are set aside for the stadium, not near that. Also it beside a motorway.All thats in the planning application is 300 on match nights. The leisure centre / shops are at the stadium.


The land is beside a motorway, its also walkable from the southside of the town. With the road connecting Colpe to the Motorway its walkable from the Grange Rath area.
The NRAs objection centres on the amount of traffic increase the M1 will receive. Its barely used from Julinatown to Waterunder with the exhorbitant toll so it has pleny of capacity.

I actually thought it was clever providing shuttle buses on matchnight, complimentary ones at that, especially as there will be bars in the ground. However our Oriel Park cousins seem to think we will get 5000 every week all travelling by car:confused:

Has anyone got a link to the NRA's parking space objection as I haven't seen it.

Rumours in Drogland it will be sorted in the next two/three months and will still go ahead

[pineapple stu]

The land is beside a motorway, its also walkable from the southside of the town.
Is this the on-ramp for Drogheda South which is actually in Dublin? That's walkable from Drogheda in the sense that there's no fire or ocean in between, but in practical terms, no-one's going to walk it.


However our Oriel Park cousins seem to think we will get 5000 every week all travelling by car:confused:
As I was correctly corrected, if you build a 10000-seater stadium, you have to have plans for it to cater for 10000.

[SeanDrog]

Is this the on-ramp for Drogheda South which is actually in Dublin? That's walkable from Drogheda in the sense that there's no fire or ocean in between, but in practical terms, no-one's going to walk it.


As I was correctly corrected, if you build a 10000-seater stadium, you have to have plans for it to cater for 10000.


You are thinking of the wrong ramp.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough.

[Student Mullet]

Could someone who knows the area give us a link to a map showing where the stadium is to be built?

[Celdrog]

Could someone who knows the area give us a link to a map showing where the stadium is to be built?
Everything in here (http://www.meath.ie/LocalAuthorities/Publications/PlanningandDevelopmentPublications/CountyMeathPlanningPublications/CountyMeathDevelopmentPlan2007-2013-Adopted/CountyMeathDevPlan2007-2013Variations/File,31943,en.pdf)

"National Roads Authority Objects as is concerned that the development will compromise the performance of the M1 and future national roads projects. The application as submitted indicates the current junction with the M1 will be unable to support the traffic generated by the development and will require upgrade. As this junction is subject to a PPP contract arrangement this will be complex, difficult and expensive to achieve."
No mention of parking. Just the M1 and future development


As I was correctly corrected, if you build a 10000-seater stadium, you have to have plans for it to cater for 10000.
Totally agree. I'm just wondering how Punchestown gets away with Oxygen. I live near Naas and its a nightmare for traffic. Bus only to the venue. They don't need to provide too much extra for normal race meetings

[SeanDrog]

Great pic (amazing what they can do nowdays :) ).

So it has nothing to do with carpark spaces etc, in fact the stadium is fine, the issue is te roundabout which the proposed link road connects onto, the NRA beleive that its inadequate to cope with potential vols and would require upgrading in the future and this is quite a complicated process (according to the Drogheda leader) - I do have to admit that if 10000 people we coming down that road onto that roundabout I would see a jam - I wouldn't be surprised if a compromise was agreed with the NRA with a committement that a traffic management plan must be in place for all games with an attendence above a certain level - this often happens with new shopping centres, Scotch hall in Drogland had to have a traffic management plan as the roads couldn't cope with extra vols and were too central to widen etc (basically the plan was more traffic lights :eek: ) c'est la vie.

Interesting to see how this pans out.