Attendances are they up or Down?

[Rovers Maniac]

Simple question, are they up or down on winter football?

Is this the 5th or 6th season of summer football? So whatever it is i suppose the best way to look at it is take the last 5 or 6 years of winter football.

Picked up the paper today and Gormley , Keely and Gill are all saying that crowds are down regardless of what the FAI are telling us. Also Cronin came out last week and said the exact same thing that crowds are down in the league. So what is it? :confused:

Maybe we could have a poll on this?

[passerrby]

two different points rovers manic they are not up dont know if they are down also linking winter v summer football is not the reason for any increase or decrease.
p.s. think giller and keely were spot on.
if there is to be a poll there should be to questions
a. are attendances up or down
b. is summer football whooly responsible for this

[Duggie]

im sick of hearing keely blab on and on about how we should all go back to part time football. fck off keely if u want to stay in the dark ages. and as for whether crowds are up on winter football or not who cares. summer football is a must, who want to play on a **** pitch in the sleet in mid december. madness.

[passerrby]

while i agree its hard listening to keily at the best of times and further agree that summer football is far better than winter football but his point about the sustainability of full time football is a fair point i think some clubs are starting to find this out.

[GuisaSaigon]

Our crowds are way down on last season and I'd guess it's the same at a lot of clubs. The CPOs seemed to boost attendances initially but I'd worry that clubs are now using the CPOs as spare office hands instead of allowing them to focus on promoting the games. I'd like to see Noel Mooney and the CPOs being more proactive. Clubs have to careful not to overprice match tickets, anything over €15 admission fee does not represent value for money. I dont think summer/winter comes into it.
Managers have to take some responsibility, too many clubs are playing a defensive or unattractive style of football. The emphasis should be on entertainment and value for money. Get that right and attendances will improve.

[superfrank]

im sick of hearing keely blab on and on about how we should all go back to part time football. fck off keely if u want to stay in the dark ages.
How can you make a post like this when your own club is struggling financially?

[Macy]

Whether it was a success or not should be investigated. As ever, it was something done on a whim, not based on proper proposed benefits. The two main selling points were said to be attendances and europe. Europe's been a mixed bag and only effects 4 teams a season anyway. It's debatable whether there's any gain for the league in total for success. Attendances certainly haven't benefitted, and would in a lot of clubs opinion actually have fallen.

I personally think that people got the reason wrong as to who we're competiting with - it's not really televised football, it's other social activities. And there's simply more things to do in the summer, even with our crap weather.

Us being a different season to the Irish League limits things like expansion of the Setanta Cup in some respects. And we also appear to get more TV coverage at the parts of the season that clash with UK football, as Irish tv is obsessed with the GAA during the summer.

[GuisaSaigon]

Full time football is not viable without a sugar daddy. It's ridiculous that clubs are trying to keep up the likes of Pat's on attendances of 1000-2000. If the current situations at Galway and Sligo teach us anything it's that it's impossible to maintain a full time set up if you are not challenging for the title. And without someone like Kellegher pumping money into your club you haven't a hope.

[Duggie]

How can you make a post like this when your own club is struggling financially?

if rovers go back to part time, all there good players will leave. prob be a locally based team next season, will get relegated and float in obscurity in the 1st division for how long. whats the point. part time football is a hobby not a option if u ask me. clubs like bray or ucd or whoever, where are they going really ??

[Rovers Maniac]

if rovers go back to part time, all there good players will leave. prob be a locally based team next season, will get relegated and float in obscurity in the 1st division for how long. whats the point. part time football is a hobby not a option if u ask me. clubs like bray or ucd or whoever, where are they going really ??

The Alternative is to go out of business ? :eek: Listen there is nothing wrong with a mix of FT and PT players nobody has said that we will go back to an all local policy.

Anyway this treads is about Attendances being up or Down

[Duggie]

The Alternative is to go out of business ? :eek: Listen there is nothing wrong with a mix of FT and PT players nobody has said that we will go back to an all local policy.

Anyway this treads is about Attendances being up or Down

pointless exercise

[dublinred]

I'm only back in Ireland 2 years and haven't seen a summer yet so summer v winter isn't much of a comparison if you ask me it seems to be winter all year round with scattered sunshine in April. I do think its madness going head to head with the GAA in July/August press coverage is poor also a lot of people have more things happening in these months than they would in November/December . How about running season from September to June with a winter break in January.

[Rovers Maniac]

pointless exercise

What excercise? it is as question i was asking not an excercise :confused:

[Duggie]

What excercise? it is as question i was asking not an excercise :confused:

pointless question then

[superfrank]

if rovers go back to part time, all there good players will leave. prob be a locally based team next season, will get relegated and float in obscurity in the 1st division for how long. whats the point. part time football is a hobby not a option if u ask me. clubs like bray or ucd or whoever, where are they going really ??
Full-time isn't exactly working for yez as it stands. Your only a few points ahead of us and you haven't challeneged for Europe since you were promoted.

Full-time football is draining your club of it's resources and the club is in desperate need of money. Would you rather your club go bankrupt instead of having a part-time team?

Bray and UCD have a made a good shot of living within their means. We are currently enjoying our longest spell in the Premier. UCD seem to do enough to stay in the top flight. Both these clubs have played in Europe before so it's not as if you have to break the bank to make it into Europe.

You seem to have fallen for the "full-time is the only way to go" argument. The fact is a full-time league is not sustainable in this country.

[superfrank]

I do think its madness going head to head with the GAA in July/August press coverage is poor also a lot of people have more things happening in these months than they would in November/December . How about running season from September to June with a winter break in January.
The problem is the waether during the winter. It's sllightly worse than the summer weather and there a load of cancelled games being re-scheduled at short notice.

Also, eircom League performances in Europe have improved since the move to summer football so that's one bonus.

[irishultra]

what the hell? the weather isn't bad here, and especially since the guy who is saying its bad was living in London.

In Dublin at least we get less rainfall than Rome does per annum.

And mostly weather picks up in the evening for some reason when matches are being played.

[osarusan]

if rovers go back to part time, all there good players will leave. prob be a locally based team next season, will get relegated and float in obscurity in the 1st division for how long. whats the point. part time football is a hobby not a option if u ask me. clubs like bray or ucd or whoever, where are they going really ??

Nobody chooses to go part-time when they have the resources to run a full-time team.

You can only stay full time if youy have the money to do so. That money generally comes from big crowds, sponsorship and / or somebody pumping money into the club.

If a club doesn't have any of those things, then full-time football is not possible.

In such a situation, what do you suggest a club do, if you say that part-time football is not an option?

[Duggie]

Nobody chooses to go part-time when they have the resources to run a full-time team.

You can only stay full time if youy have the money to do so. That money generally comes from big crowds and / or somebody pumping money into the club.

If a club doesn't have either of those things, then full-time football is not possible.

In such a situation, what do you suggest a club do, if you say that part-time football is not an option?

well the point im tring to make is whats the future in part time football other than existing IMO.

[jinxy lilywhite]

There are certainly two sides to the arguement.

I personally would prefer winter football. I don't know why but I do. I love floodlit games. The cold, rain and freezing your balls in Oriel which can be the coldest place on the planet. Football people would then say that pitches are better and a better standard of football can be played.


Crowds- Summer football is always going to be second best to the GAA All-Irelands. The FAI/ELOI is going against the biggest sporting organisation in the country and they are losing big time. This does affect crowds as not all of us are purely soccer heads. We cast an eye to see how are county is doing and also you have the various county championships to contend with. For a sports mad fella this can be very costly.
I don't think crowd attendences can give a proper indication of how popular which season is. Really the most diehard will attend games no matter what time of year it is.
A Galway fella was on earlier talkin about how their attendences dropped from last season. Last season was a whole novelty to Galway and of course their attendences would increase because of their involvement in the premier. However this season attendences have dropped because of increase in ticket prices and that the novelty of premier football has worn off. Also Galway is a pure hurling county and Galway are still involved in the all-Ireland.

I don't know how the FAI are going to get around this but I think summer hasn't really done anything for Irish Football. Is Summer soccer the reason why Drogheda, Pats and Bohs got major investment? It's probably not
On a final note Summer Soccer or Winter Football won't determine if we get better support or not. It is probably all about the stadia. A major revamp is need in all ground and they probably need to be made more family orientated more than anything else. The unfortuneate thing is that probably nobody involved in the league wants to know that

[bennocelt]

what the hell? the weather isn't bad here, and especially since the guy who is saying its bad was living in London.



ah come on, i dont really want to have a go but.......come on...........:eek:

[Redie]

Whether or not this is a 'Question' or an 'Exercise' - it certainly is not pointless. It is fundemental to accessing the League and its success or otherwise. I'd be very interested if anyone had figures comparing attendances for Summer soccer against Winter soccer!

Summer soccer was the great white hope for Irish football but I would agree with most of my fellow Sligo Rovers supporters that it has been a disaster for our club and is a major factor in keeping attendances down at the Showgrounds.

I can see little evidence of it being a significant benefit to our clubs in Europe and it is no addition to improving the quality of pitches as the close season is during the worst months of the year when there is no growth and very little can be done with them.

[irishultra]

ah come on, i dont really want to have a go but.......come on...........:eek:

So would you like to live in Serbia(for example) where you can't do anything during the day?

Our weather is condusive for doing activities during the day.....18/19/20/21 degrees is perfect for me, and I lived in San Diego for a few years when I was a kid.

[dublinred]

I would say they are down overall with Galway ,Drogheda and Cork being the expections. you would only be comparing December/January/February to June/July/August

Things to do in D/J/F on a Fri/Sat night
Drink/Football/Premiership

Things to do in J/J/A
Drink/Football/County GAA/Club GAA/Underage GAA/Racing/Golf/Cricket/Beach/farming/Holidays/Music festivals etc.

I think pitches and Europe are irrelevent , the standard of both was improving anyway , thanks to Global warming winters are a lot milder than they used to be.

[passerrby]

I.
I think pitches and Europe are irrelevent , the standard of both was improving anyway , thanks to Global warming winters are a lot milder than they used to be.

fcuk mio you have not seen the county of monaghan in nov dec jan feb.
as i said i dont know if crowds are up or down (i suspect they are slighty up) but either way i dont think weather has a major impact on attendances

[bennocelt]

I would say they are down overall with Galway ,Drogheda and Cork being the expections. you would only be comparing December/January/February to June/July/August

Things to do in D/J/F on a Fri/Sat night
Drink/Football/Premiership

Things to do in J/J/A
Drink/Football/County GAA/Club GAA/Underage GAA/Racing/Golf/Cricket/Beach/farming/Holidays/Music festivals etc.

I think pitches and Europe are irrelevent , the standard of both was improving anyway , thanks to Global warming winters are a lot milder than they used to be.

why anyone would chose a ga game over a real football game is beyond me, thats just an excuse

[bennocelt]

So would you like to live in Serbia(for example) where you can't do anything during the day?

Our weather is condusive for doing activities during the day.....18/19/20/21 degrees is perfect for me, and I lived in San Diego for a few years when I was a kid.

jeez i dont know, now that you mention it..................:)


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ

[pineapple stu]

part time football is a hobby not a option if u ask me. clubs like bray or ucd or whoever, where are they going really ??
Question is, where are you going? Back to Division One? Fire-fighting fundraisers every year or so, which will get less and less effective as time goes on?

Try not to answer with "Fair dues to us; at least we tried", a phrase which should result in instant death IMO.

[TonyD]

Also, eircom League performances in Europe have improved since the move to summer football so that's one bonus.

The fact that the teams playing in Europe generally tend to be full time also has a huge impact on this Frank. I take your point about the viability of full time football, but our performances in Europe will certainly not improve with part time teams.

[superfrank]

The fact that the teams playing in Europe generally tend to be full time also has a huge impact on this Frank. I take your point about the viability of full time football, but our performances in Europe will certainly not improve with part time teams.
You just have to look at the teams up North. They've had European ties where some of their players have been away on holidays or they've been unfit because they're out of season. I do feel that has an effect on performances.

[Candystripe]

Derry's crowds have been well up since summer football.

We're also fulltime but don't have any sugar daddies.

[SMorgan]

I can't believe that people still think that summer soccer has been a good idea. It was a poor decision made for the wrong reasons. We had clubs with cabbage patch pitches arguing that the game would benefit from better playing surfaces. If they had bothered their arses looking after their playing surfaces in the first place then this matter shouldn't have been an issue. I'd also say that I've seen some of the most dangerous playing surfaces since soccer started.

In my opinion attendances are down for very obvious reasons. The theory behind summer soccer was simplistic and flawed. Sun = Increased Crowds.

Now excuse me but I'm away to the USA for 2 weeks and miss 3 league games. Before summer soccer I went 5 season without missing a home league match (and don't recall too many been called off)

[Macy]

You just have to look at the teams up North. They've had European ties where some of their players have been away on holidays or they've been unfit because they're out of season. I do feel that has an effect on performances.
I don't recall players being on holiday really being an issue when we had a winter season - I think League Of Ireland clubs have always taken Europe more seriously than the Irish League clubs. Part time or not, I don't think a LoI club would contenance players being on holiday for a European game (and actually I don't think an LoI player would want to miss it either). It's the full time clubs that have become more competitive in Europe, so it's debatable how much can be put down entirely to summer football. And again, there's questionable benefits to the other 18 teams in the league of the four teams doing well in Europe.


Derry's crowds have been well up since summer football.

We're also fulltime but don't have any sugar daddies.
And you've been much more competitive as compared to the winter seasons leading up to it. It has to be done league wide to really compare, as a lot of clubs would've had ups and downs which would also kick in.

[garyderry]

Derry's crowds have been well up since summer football.

We're also fulltime but don't have any sugar daddies.

And its a hell of a lot better football, and the fitness makes a huge difference to the standard thanks to full-time training. As for it make no difference in Europe, the guy saying that has to be on drugs and out of it, for example no chance would the likes of Derry and Cork been taking on and beating the best a country like sweden had without a full-time professional setup AND a level playing field of playing summer football where the team is match fit. And has been said crowds are definitely up in Derry. I would say the only real chance we would have of increasing them is better facilities, not toying with winter football again.

[Duggie]

anyone who thinks winter football should come back needs help - end of.

[GuisaSaigon]

I can't believe that people still think that summer soccer has been a good idea. It was a poor decision made for the wrong reasons. We had clubs with cabbage patch pitches arguing that the game would benefit from better playing surfaces. If they had bothered their arses looking after their playing surfaces in the first place then this matter shouldn't have been an issue. I'd also say that I've seen some of the most dangerous playing surfaces since soccer started.

I dont know how many times I travelled across to Dundalk only to have games abandoned or called off before kick off in the old winter league. Some clubs didnt have the resources to take care of pitches that were being destroyed, some clubs were too lazy, some clubs are still too lazy to have a proper pitch in a summer league :o

[elroy]

1 Our biggest problem is that Irish people are event junkies. How many Cork/Galway hurling supporters do you see turning out for their league games in March? Couple of thousand maybe, but thurles will be packed with them on sat night and whoever progresses will bring an even bigger crowd to Croker.
Where are all the munster fans, when munster play edinburgh on a november friday night in Musgrave park, yet for a heineken cup game in thomond against wasps, tickets cant be got such is the demand!!

Therefore, the prospect of going to see an el team week in week out isnt going to bring out the event junkies referred to above!! Its probably the same people who went to the munster game in cardiff who will be looking for AI final tickets who will be looking for tickets for the big Ireland rugby and football games in croker.

2 If somehow, el clubs could manage to draw crowds on average 5k every week, it would be a great achievement, this should be the target for all clubs! Promotion obviously is key, half time attractions, local school kids for free...discounts and an overall improvement in facilities. This is not something thats gonna be achieved over night, we need a change in the general public's attitude to el football. Obviously starting with the kids is a great way to go about it.

3 I think el football needs to find a niche for itself, in general no gaa/rugby games are played on a fri night or sun night. These are the nights that should be targeted as el nights - most people are free and happy to do somehting relaxing/enjoyable on those nights and there isnt really any other football on (except spanish on a sun night). Setanta have tried this recently to a reasonable degree of success, recent games like Derry/Cork on a sun night are what are needed to get a the lazy punter who might switch it on when theres nothing else on a sun night and go hey this is pretty good!! A regular live half 7 slot on a sun night would be very good for the league.

4 I think a blend should be sought where the el teams are fully match fit/sharp playing european games (increased exposure etc) but at the same time we're not in direct competition with gaa in July/August and also we're not playing our show piece cup final in a freezing miserable first week in Dec!!! All easier said than done and Im not sure what the answer is.

[dublinred]

why anyone would chose a ga game over a real football game is beyond me, thats just an excuse

Because of the amouont of GAA on the tv on sunday and saturday afternoons they are now playing their club and underage games on fri/sat nights leaving sunday/sat mornings free for travelling to games, this does affect the crowds in Sligo and other places.

[Redie]

anyone who thinks winter football should come back needs help - end of.

Ya! end of Sligo Rovers!

[dcfcsteve]

There's people on here saying that full-time football is wrong, bad, a disaster etc.

There is nothing at all wrong with Full-time football itself. The concept and idea is solid. What is wrong, however, is running a full-time set-up on money you don't have - and there's where clubs need to start catching themselves on.

Michael keane at Pat's being on over €3k a week, Boco at Sligo apparently on€2k a week - these are ridiculous salaries for Irish clubs to be paying. It's the clubs themselves that are at fault here - not the concept of full-time football.

The appaearance of 'investors' at a number of clubs hasn't helped in this at all. It's just started an arms race of inflated salaries for medicore players.

Football encourages smart people to make dumb decisions. It's the people making those decisions who are responsible.

[dcfcsteve]

Ya! end of Sligo Rovers!

I think paying €2k a week for players may have more to do with the demise of Sligo than the particular season in which the club plays.....

[Rovers Maniac]

I think paying €2k a week for players may have more to do with the demise of Sligo than the particular season in which the club plays.....

Steve hi, first of all he is not on that money but second he his not costing the club anything during the playing season.

[GuisaSaigon]

Steve hi, first of all he is not on that money but second he his not costing the club anything during the playing season.

Do ye just pay him during the off season? :confused:

[red bellied]

Do ye just pay him during the off season? :confused:

Business people are covering his wages, he is not on 2,000 grand a week either.

[bennocelt]

Because of the amouont of GAA on the tv on sunday and saturday afternoons they are now playing their club and underage games on fri/sat nights leaving sunday/sat mornings free for travelling to games, this does affect the crowds in Sligo and other places.

my point was how can anyone rationally choose a muck game like Ga over football?

[superfrank]

Going by the Sam Maguire thread, you seem to be a big fan of GAA. :confused:

[Rovers fan]

Boco at Sligo apparently on€2k a week
Yeah why not make things up to prove your point:rolleyes:.How would you know what he's on anyway? He's not on 2k a week nor has that figure even been mentioned before.At the start of the season it was rumoured that he's on 1.5k a week but it is actually less than that and the club don't even pay his wages.

[GuisaSaigon]

the club don't even pay his wages.
Is that allowed? how does it fit in to the 65% wage cap rule?

[trevy]

Attendances at Waterford United this season have been terrible and worse than when we had winter soccer. I remember going to 1st division games back in the 90's in worse weather and much worse facilities at the RSC and the crowds were bigger. Clubs must be so frustrated that they've improved facilities,tried to improve standards and still crowds are poor.

[jinxy lilywhite]

my point was how can anyone rationally choose a muck game like Ga over football?

i don't know how anyone can call GAA a muck game. Soccer is so slow compared to it. A Gaa game can change in seconds.