League of Ireland vs The National team. [Archive]

SunderlandBohs

14/07/2008, 1:02 PM

Was talking to a few of my mates from Sunderland over the weekend. They were explain that they don't support the English national team as much as people from the south do. When I got them to explain they told me that southern players always get picked ahead of northerners & players from southern clubs will always get picked before those from the north. Hence northerners don't feel part of the whole England experinence. For example Shackleton, Clough & Phillips we're there of the best strikers in England in there prime but only got 12 caps between them, the same amount as Kieron Richardson. Even though they have a point, I asked them if maybe they were a little paranoid. One of my mates said, it's a bit like LOI fans & our national team. He had a point. Do LOI fans feel the same way? Do will feel left out of the whole Rep. Ireland experinece?

jebus

14/07/2008, 1:08 PM

Don't think so. I don't think any LoI player merits a place in the Irish squad so I don't see the Irish management as being biased against us.

Tell your mates in the North the English have a bias towards players at the big clubs, not the South. A player from West Ham is more likely to get picked for England if he transfers to Liverpool or Man Utd for example

superfrank

14/07/2008, 1:19 PM

Well, we have the U-23 squad now and lots of el players get called up for the underage squads.

I don't really know if el players are better than those in the national team. I would like to see them called up for friendlies and given a run out then, just to see how they do.

What really annoyed me about the Ireland squad was Kevin Doyle. Transfered to Reading and before he'd played a competitive match he was in the Ireland squad. That is insulting to the el.

Lionel Ritchie

14/07/2008, 1:29 PM

I'd agree to an extent that northern English based players have more to do to get into the England side. Always reckoned if Nigel Martin had been playing for Spurs or even West Ham rather than Leeds United he'd have gotten more England caps. Kevin Phillips case is even more compelling.

jebus

14/07/2008, 1:32 PM

Transfered to Reading and before he'd played a competitive match he was in the Ireland squad. That is insulting to the el.

It's annoying but it happens the world over. Like the example I gave in England, I mean how many caps would Phil Neville have had if he played his whole career with Everton? Not half as much as got during his time with United anyway. Would Theo Walcott have been called up for the World Cup squad if he had transferred to Newcastle instead of Arsenal? I doubt it. Sven would trust Ferguson and Wenger's judgement on players over Moyes and whoever was Newcastle manager at the time. In the same way the Irish management have always trusted the judgement of managers who are at a club in a higher standard league than our own managers. It's annoying but that's football

SunderlandBohs

14/07/2008, 1:40 PM

What really annoyed me about the Ireland squad was Kevin Doyle. Transfered to Reading and before he'd played a competitive match he was in the Ireland squad. That is insulting to the el.
That's the point I'm trying to get across. Things like that. The other point is, would an LOI fan rather see a side from here getting into the group stages of the Champions League or Ireland reaching the 2010 World Cup? Has it become an us vs them thing?

Rovers Maniac

14/07/2008, 1:44 PM

I would say if Seamus Coleman was playing for a Dublin Club he would have more caps than he has at the moment. He is a much better player than Conor Powell and JP Kelly.

A face

14/07/2008, 2:30 PM

would an LOI fan rather see a side from here getting into the group stages of the Champions League or Ireland reaching the 2010 World Cup? Has it become an us vs them thing?

Simple, Champions League hands down ... there is nothing to relate to on the Irish team so its gonna be club football all the way.

OneRedArmy

14/07/2008, 2:31 PM

I have more problem with the eeijits in the stands (booing players who play for their English or Scottish clubs rivals) than I do with a lack of representation in the squad.

Macy

14/07/2008, 2:35 PM

It's the overuse of the granny rule that would put me off more than anything. As someone who was born in England, and never considered myself anything but Irish, I really hate these muppets who suddenly declare for the "Republic" to get international football when the green shirt means nothing to them. And that does include some of our most celebrated players who would still support the country of their birth over Ireland even at this stage.

The non calling up of League players is more an irritant, and only when their calling up squad player no marks from league 1 and 2ahead of them.

I can't think of any of my United regular mates that give a toss about England, if that's any help?

superfrank

14/07/2008, 2:47 PM

That's the point I'm trying to get across. Things like that. The other point is, would an LOI fan rather see a side from here getting into the group stages of the Champions League or Ireland reaching the 2010 World Cup? Has it become an us vs them thing?
Personally, I'd rather see Bray in the Champion's League than Ireland in the World Cup.

After that, I'd rather see Ireland in the World Cup ahead of seeing any other el club in the Champion's League.

holidaysong

14/07/2008, 2:57 PM

Personally, I'd rather see Bray in the Champion's League than Ireland in the World Cup.

After that, I'd rather see Ireland in the World Cup ahead of seeing any other el club in the Champion's League.

I'd be the same, replacing Bray with Dundalk obviously. Would even prefer promotion for Dundalk over Ireland getting to the World Cup. :)

sadloserkid

14/07/2008, 3:23 PM

I have more problem with the eeijits in the stands (booing players who play for their English or Scottish clubs rivals) than I do with a lack of representation in the squad.

Ditto.

I'd be the same, replacing Bray with Dundalk obviously. Would even prefer promotion for Dundalk over Ireland getting to the World Cup. :)

Again ditto. With Limerick replacing Bray and Dundalk. I've no problem with the national side and would prefer to see them do well. However even if the team was eleven home-based players I'd still put my club first.

SunderlandBohs

14/07/2008, 3:36 PM

I rather see Bohs win the league than see Ireland in South Africa for 2010. My head would choose Ireland in the World Cup over any other team in the CL but my heart wouldn't. I go to a lot of ireland's home games. But I don't feel 'part of the gang' as I would at a Bohs match. Maybe it's the snob in me but I don't think some of the Irish fans are football people. At the last match against Serbia I seen people wearing Man Utd, Sunderland, Liverpool & Celtic jersies & cheering Vidic because he is a Man Utd player. I wonder how many of those people have ever heard of Hurley, Cantwell or Liam Whelan.

Mr A

14/07/2008, 3:41 PM

I would echo most of the comments here. I go to the odd Ireland game and have only really enjoyed them when all the EL fans were placed in together. Otherwise the atmosphere has been poor and amount of total feckin gob****es highly annoying.

I love to see Ireland do well, but Harps stomp all over it in terms of importance.

micls

14/07/2008, 4:05 PM

I hope the national team do well, and would love to see them get to the world cup but honestly If I had to I'd pick City winning the match Thursday ahead of it

Straightstory

14/07/2008, 5:32 PM

I'd much prefer a LOI team to get to the Champions' League group stages than Ireland to qualify for the World Cup. It would mean so much more for football in this country.

Mr Maroon

14/07/2008, 5:46 PM

I have little interest in the national team but that's not due to me being a LOI supporter.

TonyD

14/07/2008, 9:47 PM

As someone once memorably said here in a previous thread on this topic "I'd rather see my team win a corner than Ireland win a match" (I'm pretty sure it was a Shamrock Rovers fan but I can't remmeber who) Anyhow that more or less sums it up for me. I'm totally apathetic at this stage about the "National" team. It would be of far more benefit to football in this country in my opinion to get a team (any team) into the Champions League group stages. The problem is for too many people Irish football only means the international team. I'd be much happier supporting a National team made up of players from here (Not saying it would be as good a team, and I'm not saying there are better players in the league than in the International squad - it would just mean a helluva lot more to me).

Pablo Escobar

14/07/2008, 9:58 PM

My club comes first. I'm caring less and less about the national team each year.

Stevo Da Gull

14/07/2008, 9:59 PM

I've got nothing against the national team, but like micls I'd choose Bray winning their next game over Ireland qualifying for the world cup.

dcfcsteve

14/07/2008, 11:42 PM

Tell your mates in the North the English have a bias towards players at the big clubs, not the South. A player from West Ham is more likely to get picked for England if he transfers to Liverpool or Man Utd for example

Agreed.

SunderlandBohs - I think it's safe to say your friends are talking sh!te, and have been feeding from the whorry breast of 'victimhood' for far too long now.

Firstly - I've been living in England for 18 years, incl Newcastle, and never once have I heard anyone complain that southern players got deliberately picked over northerners. If I could be arsed to look into it, I'm sure it wouldn't stack-up historically either.

Secondly - one area I'm sure it doesn't stack-up historically is in terms of the managers. The vast majority of English managers have not been from the south. Keegan, Robson, McLaren, Revie, Greenwood, Mercer - all from the Midlands or North. I can only think of three southerners in-fact : Venables, Ramsey and Hoddle (all londoners I believe). So ask your friends why would Northen managers - incl some fiercely proud Northerners like Robson, Keegan and Revie - turn their back on fellow Northerners and pick southerners purely on the basis of where they were from ? Chip-on-shoulder Mackem nonesense.

Re EL v ROI : I used to follow the Republoic a lot. But since City's big Euro adventure in 2006, I have to say that Ireland games just don't mean that much to me any more. They can never mean as much as DCFC does.

It doesn't help that I had to listen to pr!cks with English accents at the Columbia game trying to start Celtic and IRA songs :o There's just to many cnuts at Ireland games for my liking.

pixiehead

15/07/2008, 3:07 AM

Its simple... As long as people and daft consortiums keep pumping money and support into the English leagues the National team will remain rubbish.
when we start to build are own league and get money and suppport to help home grown talent the national team will flourish. Look at the Englands National team which began to deterioate as they introduced more and more forengnors to the game. Its the same idea different concept.
Club over Country any day especially when its riddleled with plastic paddys looking for notice and a cap to show the grand kids in some future comfy home in the English Country side ;)!!!!!

chipsahoy

15/07/2008, 10:53 AM

Mr A

15/07/2008, 11:09 AM

Or the worst thing, as it could lead to one club having enough money to make the league uncompetitive for years to come.......

sullanefc

15/07/2008, 11:17 AM

Or the worst thing, as it could lead to one club having enough money to make the league uncompetitive for years to come.......

Irrelevant. Bohemians' ground sale, yer man kelleher at Pats have made these two clubs quite rich already. Is a team getting to the CL group stages going to make things all that different to the way it is now?

Ceirtlis

15/07/2008, 11:18 AM

Dodge

15/07/2008, 11:51 AM

No, Doyle was a regular with Reading before being called into the Ireland squad

bigmac

15/07/2008, 11:58 AM

Is this true?

no - he moved to Reading in June and was called into the Irish squad in October - not sure how many games had been played at that stage but he made his competitive Reading debut in August. While I agree with the general thrust of the argument, let's keep the facts as facts or else the next thing will be someone on here saying that Kevin Doyle was told that he'd be capped if he moved to England but not if he stayed at Cork.

Paddy McCourt is a different matter however - Nigel Worthington saying he could be called up before he had even arrived in Glasgow.

Fivesilver

15/07/2008, 12:25 PM

definitely take ANY eircom league team in the champions league group stages over any irish national team sucess. i dont know how anyone who follows eircom league football would say otherwise, its probably the best thing that could happen to the league

Simple - you don't like your closest rivals doing better than you. If that's spite, then grand, I have no problem with the lower order of emotions when it comes to being a football supporter.

Sligo Rovers in the Intertoto or Ireland in the World Cup? No contest. But Ireland in the World Cup or Bohs/Derry/Shams/take your pick in the CL? I have some connection to the Irish team, being Irish, but other LoI teams are the enemy and their success is inevitably bound up with our failure.

As for the best thing to happen to the league as a whole? Get the morons off the barstools and filling LoI grounds week in, week out, and the extra cash used to improve teams and infrastructure. High quality football in packed, comfortable grounds. A fantasy maybe, but probably not much more of a stretch than a single LoI team distinguishing themselves against Europe's top sides.

SunderlandBohs

15/07/2008, 12:36 PM

Agreed.

SunderlandBohs - I think it's safe to say your friends are talking sh!te, and have been feeding from the whorry breast of 'victimhood' for far too long now.

Firstly - I've been living in England for 18 years, incl Newcastle, and never once have I heard anyone complain that southern players got deliberately picked over northerners. If I could be arsed to look into it, I'm sure it wouldn't stack-up historically either.

Secondly - one area I'm sure it doesn't stack-up historically is in terms of the managers. The vast majority of English managers have not been from the south. Keegan, Robson, McLaren, Revie, Greenwood, Mercer - all from the Midlands or North. I can only think of three southerners in-fact : Venables, Ramsey and Hoddle (all londoners I believe). So ask your friends why would Northen managers - incl some fiercely proud Northerners like Robson, Keegan and Revie - turn their back on fellow Northerners and pick southerners purely on the basis of where they were from ? Chip-on-shoulder Mackem nonesense.

Typical of someone who lived in both Newcastle & Derry not to think before he types something. Read my post again. I said that they might be a little paranoid & if you look closely you would have notice that both Phillips & Richardson are Cockneys. And I'd like to point out, just like I did to my three friends, Don Revie played for Sunderland. But that isn't point I'm getting across. The point of the post was do we feel the same way towards the our national team? I don't care less how many northerner or southerners play for England!

superfrank

15/07/2008, 1:19 PM

no - he moved to Reading in June and was called into the Irish squad in October - not sure how many games had been played at that stage but he made his competitive Reading debut in August. While I agree with the general thrust of the argument, let's keep the facts as facts or else the next thing will be someone on here saying that Kevin Doyle was told that he'd be capped if he moved to England but not if he stayed at Cork.
Kevin Doyloe was called up for a friendly in August that year but he got injured and didn't play so his debut was delayed.

EalingGreen

15/07/2008, 1:50 PM

Paddy McCourt is a different matter however - Nigel Worthington saying he could be called up before he had even arrived in Glasgow.
That's misleading, imo. NW was responding to a journo asking about McCourt, in the context of a forthcoming friendly in Glasgow.
In the end, either he rates Pat or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he's hardly likely to discourage him by saying so publicly. That said, even if he does rate him, he won't want to have his hands tied a couple of months in advance by comments at a Press Conference.
Therefore, what he actually said was that if Pat settles into Parkhead and makes an early impact, he will come into contention.
And my own guess is that while the game being in Glasgow means he might come into contention sooner than would otherwise have been the case, it will still come down to how many regulars are available to NW when the time comes. In particular, if Brunt is fit and getting Premiership games for WBA, he'll be clear first choice and Pat and the rest will likely have to wait their turn.
But if not, Pat might get pushed nearer the front of the queue.

chipsahoy

15/07/2008, 2:52 PM

Simple - you don't like your closest rivals doing better than you. If that's spite, then grand, I have no problem with the lower order of emotions when it comes to being a football supporter.

Sligo Rovers in the Intertoto or Ireland in the World Cup? No contest. But Ireland in the World Cup or Bohs/Derry/Shams/take your pick in the CL? I have some connection to the Irish team, being Irish, but other LoI teams are the enemy and their success is inevitably bound up with our failure.

As for the best thing to happen to the league as a whole? Get the morons off the barstools and filling LoI grounds week in, week out, and the extra cash used to improve teams and infrastructure. High quality football in packed, comfortable grounds. A fantasy maybe, but probably not much more of a stretch than a single LoI team distinguishing themselves against Europe's top sides.

when your closest rivals are craptown you dont have to consider such an idea!!!!