League embarrassed again

[Gary]

Both Shels and derry were beaten at home tonight.

Shels 2 - 3 Ljubjana

Derry 0- 3 Nicosia

In fairness like, this aint bloody good enough. Looks like their friendlies did them a whole lot of goo didnt it?

At least Shams and Bohs did something.

[tiktok]

That's disppointing alright, can't believe that they both conceeded three at home (in both cases after defending relatively well away).

[TommyT]

Second worst home performance I can remember by a Dublin team, eclipsed only by Pats-Zimbru.

[Colm]

Originally posted by Gary
Shels 2 - 3 Ljubjana

Derry 0- 3 Nicosia


I think embarrassing is the operative word alright. Whatever about Derry, afterall they are only part time and had problems with their ground, Shels are a disgrace.
Shels are a full time team with some of the leagues best players yet they fcuk up in Europe every year, it's just not good enough.

[pineapple stu]

Hate to agree, but I have to. Shels were absolutely appalling tonight - they had no idea about how to pass the ball, make space or tackle. Olimpija weren't a great team - in the first half, they gave the ball away just as cheaply as Shels - but Shels gifted them the tie. Apparently they had what they called "defenders" on the pitch as well - didn't see any evidence of them!

Didn't see the Derry game obviously, but they were 1-0 down after 70 minutes when APOEL had a player sent off. And yet it was APOEL who scored twice in the last three minutes. Shows how far we've to go yet...:mad:

[pineapple stu]

Incidentally, can anyone confirm that we now won't be seeded in the CL next season? I think it's almost guaranteed, particularly with Bohs mid-table.

[Slash/ED]

Shels were awful today, they were playing a poor team who they should have beaten, but despite having very good 'footballing' players, they can never seem to play good football except in glimpses, it was obvious that would cost us in Europe. Playing 4-5-1 was also a very poor idea and the defending was awful, basically the Slovenians scored on all three decent attacks and the third goal was just farcial defending. If Shelbourne want to progress in Europe they need to play to their strenghts, a good technical mid field, and not hit aimless balls from the defenders for Byrne to chase as it simply suits nobody.

[A face]

Originally posted by TommyT
Second worst home performance I can remember by a Dublin team, eclipsed only by Pats-Zimbru.

Was that the 5 nil that ended up as 10 nil ??

Lord above that was bad !!

[TommyT]

Originally posted by pineapple stu
Incidentally, can anyone confirm that we now won't be seeded in the CL next season? I think it's almost guaranteed, particularly with Bohs mid-table.

Well one win(out of 8 games) would suggest so, in fact we haven't even managed to overtake Belarus :rolleyes:

While even the Nordies picked up more points.

[Ultan]

Originally posted by pineapple stu
Incidentally, can anyone confirm that we now won't be seeded in the CL next season? I think it's almost guaranteed, particularly with Bohs mid-table.
AFAIK the only team that will be seeded in next years CL will be Bohs - if we qualify that is. It was the same this year as well, if Shels had of won the league last season they would of had to play a qualifying game to face that BATE crowd. No doubt they would of blown that too...

[Sheridan]

This may be a kneejerk response to last night's result, but I think the issue needs to be raised. If the distribution of allocated European places is within the FAI's remit, and to the best of my knowledge it is, then perhaps the policy of awarding a UEFA Cup place to the FAI Cup winners needs to be reviewed.

Since the Cup Winners Cup was abolished, Bray, Longford, Dundalk and Derry have qualified for Europe via the FAI Cup. All bar Longford were beaten heavily. The Intertoto Cup might be a more appropriate reward, with the second UEFA Cup spot going to the team finishing third in the Premier Division (or maybe the third-placed side and domestic cup winners could play-off for entry into the UEFA Cup?)

This certainly shouldn't be read as a criticism of Derry, who were in the same invidious position as Kevin Kilbane at the last World Cup; they no doubt tried their best, but shouldn't have been exposed to such humiliation in the first place.

[Dodge]

I disagree. I hate it when a team qualifies that you know won't do anything in Europe but after the winning the cup they definitely deserve that place.

On Zimbru, all Pats fans were very confident gooing into it. We'd won the league twice in a row, held Celtic away the previous year and thought it was a formality. We starte brightly and honestly should have been 3-0 in half an hour. Gilzean got injured and we conceded a goal from a corner. Then we hit the bar. Adn then we collapsed like the twin towers... In the end we were lucky to only concede 5. The point is (apart how **** we were) that Irish clubs seem to collapse very easily. The longer we hold out the better we perform but once we concede, the heads drop far too easily. Although we were the worst, look at Bohs in Rosenberg, Shles last night and I'm sure plenty of thers...

[MariborKev]

Well lads as a Derry fan writing this it may be considered and immotive response but here's my take

As one of the many of travelled to Cyprus we were under no illsuions as to the size of the task. To be honest we rode our luck out there and it could have been 3 or 4 to them.

Look over our message boards and the predictions in the run up to the game, the people who were out in Cyprus thought that APOEL would win but those wh hadn't seen the first leg thought that we were in with a chance.

As for the game itself they deserved to win as we may have had plenty of possession but yet again we failed to create any real chances.

The deserved to score but 3-0 was a untrue reflection of the game, if you thinks Shels defending is bad, keep an eye out for our "ballet dance" routine for the second goal.

Holt dived disgracefully to get their player sent off and in the cold light of day I am ashamed at his actions. However this galavanised the Cypriots rather than us and we just crumbled when they scored the second.

[Roo69]

is everybody so surprised, upset and angry that Eircom League clubs failed again in europe this season ? The league has only gone professional in the past 2 seasons and yet still not all clubs are fully pro. We are years behind 95% of the teams that we play againist.

It's gonna take time to adjust to this level of football, but irish clubs will never make a real impact on european football unless more money is pumped into the game

[Sheridan]

Originally posted by Dodge
I disagree. I hate it when a team qualifies that you know won't do anything in Europe but after the winning the cup they definitely deserve that place.
They certainly deserve a European place, I just think the Intertoto is more appropriate. Not only is the coefficient less likely to take a pounding, but it makes sense in another respect. Is winning the cup really a more laudable achievment than finishing third in the league? I mean, Rovers have done it 24 times ffs ;)



The point is (apart how **** we were) that Irish clubs seem to collapse very easily.
Agree 100%. This lack of mental toughness is evident even in the national team, despite what people may think. They may show great "character" when 0-1 down to a better team, but it's generally lack of character/concentration which costs them that goal in the first place.

[wws]

the olimpia goals were conceded with such ease you really would feel embarressed to be a league fan

very poor

[James]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
Playing 4-5-1 was also a very poor idea .

:) no chite
*where have we heard that one b4

at least yur guy didnt call it 'an attacking formation'

[pineapple stu]

Originally posted by Sheridan
If the distribution of allocated European places is within the FAI's remit, and to the best of my knowledge it is, then perhaps the policy of awarding a UEFA Cup place to the FAI Cup winners needs to be reviewed.


I would have thought that UEFA stipulate that the Cup winners go into the UEFA?

That said, the League Cup winners in England get a European spot, which I don't think pleases UEFA much, so maybe you're right.

Bit harsh on the club that wins the Cup though - the worst that happens is that they get a decent cash injection which can only help in the long term surely?

[pineapple stu]

Originally posted by Roo69
Why is everybody so surprised, upset and angry that Eircom League clubs failed again in europe this season?

I think it's the manner of the failure more than anything. Shels could have gone through - they scored the goals - but the defending was so amateurish that it really was like five steps back for the league. They played at a painfully slow pace, had few ideas, the passing was all over the place, they had very poor control when they were hassled by the Slovenians and resorted to hoofing far too often.

Of course it'll take time before the eL starts getting though the qualifying round of the UEFA on a regular basis, but you at least want to see progress being made season by season in the meantime.:(

[Slash/ED]

Shels definitely could have gone through, and would be looking at a match with Liverpool right now if they did, the crowd they played were nothing special, Shels are top of the league but dare I say it, Bohs would have beaten that Slovenian team last night. There can be no excuse for the preformance and the bad decisions made by the manager.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by pineapple stu
I would have thought that UEFA stipulate that the Cup winners go into the UEFA?

AFAIK, Uefa award the number of places you get, your champions have to go into the champions league, after that it's up to the FAI to distribute the placings, so they could award the intertoto cup place to the FAI cup winners. it's not a bad idea from the point of view of teams progressing but i would be against it purely because it would take so much from our premier Cup competition.

as to Shels performance, i agree with dodge that in general EL clubs let the heads drop after and early goal, and allowing them to score two in the first half (while playing 451 :rolleyes: ) casts the team in an amateurish light.

[liamon]

Originally posted by tiktok
AFAIK, Uefa award the number of places you get, your champions have to go into the champions league, after that it's up to the FAI to distribute the placings,

Don't think so. Go to
http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19070.pdf
Page 9 details eligibility to enter the UEFA cup competition. The UEFA cup is open to the domestic cup winners and teams who finish high in the league.

For futher details on the Toto cup:
http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19069.pdf
This comp is only open to those that finish just outside the UEFA cup places in the league.

So, our Cup winners will keep going into the UEFA cup. Which is only right. Otherwise, some of the glamour will go from the cup and it'll end up being like the Italian cup, a nothing event.

Quiet day at work, so I've had time to look this up.

[ger121]

Originally posted by Ultan
AFAIK the only team that will be seeded in next years CL will be Bohs - if we qualify that is. It was the same this year as well, if Shels had of won the league last season they would of had to play a qualifying game to face that BATE crowd. No doubt they would of blown that too...


Yeah you are right. I was looking at Uefa's list of co-efficents and bohs where ranked 4th in the list of 1st round seeded teams. If Shels win the league I think they would be unseeded in the 1st round next year.

[pineapple stu]

Although if Bohs got into the UEFA, surely they'd have a better chance of going through to the first round (seeing as how they seem the best adapted to European football here), where the points are doubled for any results? That's how we jumped there a couple of years ago - Bohs beat Kaiserslautern - and we could get a decent score if Bohs are in the UEFA next season I reckon.