New All-Ireland League

[Duggie]

ok so i have a few points some people might be able to help with if this goes ahead.

who decided the 10 teams that were going to participate ? galway united and even more puzzling limerick fc ??? then what happens to the other league teams...what then for them ? i just dont see how its going to operate yet....

[Schumi]

i just dont see how its going to operate yet....No one does, if indeed it ever does. There have just been occasional details leaked of what the current proponents of an AIL are thinking. There are no concrete details of an AIL or who might play in it yet, if ever.

[galah]

ok so i have a few points some people might be able to help with if this goes ahead.

who decided the 10 teams that were going to participate ? galway united and even more puzzling limerick fc ??? then what happens to the other league teams...what then for them ? i just dont see how its going to operate yet....

they want limerick cos there potential in the city if it got its ship in order ... a team doin wel in the city coul draw crowds of 3-5000 regularly which u couldnt say about alot of teams..

[pineapple stu]

Couldn't say it about Limerick either.

[gufc4life]

Couldn't say it about Limerick either.

they have ALOT better chance of doing that then ucd:p

[pineapple stu]

Nope. Zero chance is the same as zero chance.

[galah]

Nope. Zero chance is the same as zero chance.
when limerick were top 6 a couple years back (big sam days) ..there were gettin alot more than alot of prem teams are today

[gustavo]

does this need another new thread?

[pineapple stu]

A couple of years back? That's 10-15 years ago.

How do you know what their attendances were back then? Very easy to say "I remember crowds of 4000" and there were only 1500.

And they (like any other LoI club) could quite posisbly get decent crowds for a season or two while they're doing exceptionally well. It's the seasons where you're in the doldrums - mid-table or fighting against relegation - when the local support will leave. So for the foreseeable future, I can only see the top two or three clubs in the league - whoever they are - getting anywhere near 3000-5000. Just like now.

[Duggie]

does this need another new thread?

why not - dont post in it if u dont want to.

[CJTheGull]

Yeah it's a strange one alright - can't see the likes of Linfield being too mad up for it either and no doubt there'd be quite a high potential of trouble when they are playing certain teams (and no I don't mean Wexford Youths) down here.

[gustavo]

why not - dont post in it if u dont want to.

I'm not only making the comment due to consistent manner of this subject coming up but also the fact that there is already a thread on this subject already on the front page of this forum

[osarusan]

Duggie, take a look at the "AIL on the long finger thread" for more comment on this.

Nobody seems to have any concrete information on it, and there are lots of posts about the promotion/relegation system (or lack of), parachute money for teams, franchise football, huge prize money - but nobody on here seems to really know.

[Rovers fan]

And they (like any other LoI club) could quite posisbly get decent crowds for a season

except UCD;):p

[John83]

except UCD;):p
You're probably just teasing Stu, but you'd be surprised. Our crowds were a good bit higher twenty-five years ago. Success is a great attractor of crowds.

[GavinZac]

You're probably just teasing Stu, but you'd be surprised. Our crowds were a good bit higher twenty-five years ago. Success is a great attractor of crowds.

How much is a good bit? 200%?

[SMorgan]

There are some figures in today's Star and from it I think its fair to say that these guys don't appear to know what they are doing. They talk about 150k for the team that comes last yet the plan is to charge each club 100k affiliation. They also plan to take 10% of gate money which they reckon will amount to 500k and that both governments will provide funding. Why exactly the governments either side of the border will provide funding for this exclusive league is beyond me.

They then go on the talk about glamour friendlies against Celtic (that'll pack them into Windsor) and representative matches against the SPL. I wonder has anybody run this by the Scots!!

The more you hear about this plan the sillier it seems. Why are the clubs listening to these people?

[dcfcsteve]

Why does this all sound so mad cap to you...?


There are some figures in today's Star and from it I think its fair to say that these guys don't appear to know what they are doing. They talk about 150k for the team that comes last yet the plan is to charge each club 100k affiliation.

So the team at the bottom nets-out at €50k a year for the worst possible league position, and everyone else above them nets-out even better. Care to tell me what is so bad about that ? :rolleyes: The team bottom currently is lucky if they get £5k come season's end.


They also plan to take 10% of gate money which they reckon will amount to 500k

Firstly - have you thought why they might take 10% of gate money ? It wouldn't just be to line their pockets. If the plan is to have a centrally marketed league, then it would need to have centrally funded marketing- and a fund to do that. We've seen for decades now that the league just isn't capable of marketing itself.

Secondly - if the league is being marketed by a professional sports company (who yuo would assume know what they're doing), then why shouldn't they take a percentage of the gate ? 90% of a bigger pie is likely to be better for clubs than 100% of a smaller one.

Thirdly - I'm not sure if you're dismissing their estimation that 10% of gate receipts across a season could amount to €500k, but that is an extremely achieable figure. Indeed - the league is probably at or near that sort of level of aggregate gate money already - so I would strongly assert that such a target is far too low
.

and that both governments will provide funding. Why exactly the governments either side of the border will provide funding for this exclusive league is beyond me.

Why wouldn't they provide funding for it ? :confused: They didn't have a problem funding the GAA, greyhound racing, horseracing or any other number of sports that had got their sh!t together. Your just starting to ooze sneering prejudice here now TBH. How's about - rather than dismiss everything here without a single justificatiion - you start to provide somethig to back-up your 'views'.


They then go on the talk about glamour friendlies against Celtic (that'll pack them into Windsor) and representative matches against the SPL. I wonder has anybody run this by the Scots!!

This is only side-show stuff really - although City will probably make about £250k stg from each of our Celtic friendlies, for example, so there's money to be made there (even if we did have to pay for that visit). But it's hardly something I think they should be focusing on, and it's hardly a reason for dissing the idea of an all-island league.

The SPL inter-league stuff would again be just side-show, though you're sneering is just getting tedious by this stage. If the AIL was a much better supported, better funded, higher standard league with better facilities - why wouldn't SPL select teams want to play it ? :confused: But i digress....


The more you hear about this plan the sillier it seems. Why are the clubs listening to these people?

Conversely - the more I hear of your ill-considered sneering, the sillier you seem. I'm grateful that the clubs appear to be listening to a professional sports marketing company capable of presenting and justifying a business case, rather than a random punter on the internet who appears to type without thinking.

[pixiehead]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mhgbidcwojcw/
No league now lads!!!!!

[BohDiddley]

Only rational response to that sort of intransigence is a breakaway. Pity.

[seanfhear]

do the fai/ifa need a kick up the backside? Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssss

[John83]

do the fai/ifa need a kick up the backside? Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssss
What are you, four years old? Well done.

[passerrby]

I think its dead in the water for the near future however in a couple of years time and some proper all inclusive planning it just might work but the present proposals were far of the mark.

[BohDiddley]

Has there been a foot.ie poll on this? If not, would it be a good idea? A simple yes/no/neutral should do it.

[jebus]

Has there been a foot.ie poll on this? If not, would it be a good idea? A simple yes/no/neutral should do it.

We had one before on a different AIL thread, can't remember the result but try searching it

[EalingGreen]

Only rational response to that sort of intransigence is a breakaway. Pity.

"Intransigence"? Where is your evidence of this? If you're referring to the IFA, I would point out that they have been cooperating closely with the FAI for some years now, on a number of matters (including the Setanta All-Ireland Cup), despite the offence caused by the FAI's having gone back on their prior agreement not to select NI-born players.

And part of this cooperation has been meeting with the FAI and Platinum etc to see whether an AIL could be further progressed. However, the IFA is slap bang in the middle of the biggest re-organisation of their own domestic League set-up in over a quarter of a century. Therefore, in the clear absence of any bad-faith on the IFA's part, any reasonable observer would accept this as their stated reason for not proceeding with this proposal in the short-term.

As for a "breakaway", there is no chance of that happening now. Quite obviously the IFA would never support this, it seems clear that the FAI will row in with them, and UEFA will never go over the heads of their two Member Associations.

After all, even the mighty English clubs were not prepared to risk a true breakaway when the English Premiership was set-up - they accepted that it could only be done under the auspices of the FA. And somehow, I suspect that teams like Man U and Liverpool have somewhat more clout than the likes of Galway United or Drogheda....

[EalingGreen]

I think its dead in the water for the near future however in a couple of years time and some proper all inclusive planning it just might work but the present proposals were far of the mark.

Fair comment.

[Conroy]

Dont think it will ever happen, too much standing against it for it to go ahead.

[SMorgan]

Why does this all sound so mad cap to you...?

So the team at the bottom nets-out at €50k a year for the worst possible league position, and everyone else above them nets-out even better. Care to tell me what is so bad about that ? :rolleyes: The team bottom currently is lucky if they get £5k come season's end.

Well if the prize money is £50k for the team that comes last then let them says its £50k, and stop £150k PR crap. This is just spin that is meant to mislead. They appear to plan to give money and then take it away, or is it take it away and give it back? Like will a club have to actually pay £100k a year or do they just say 'take it off our prise money'


Firstly - have you thought why they might take 10% of gate money ? It wouldn't just be to line their pockets. If the plan is to have a centrally marketed league, then it would need to have centrally funded marketing- and a fund to do that. We've seen for decades now that the league just isn't capable of marketing itself.

Well, put it this way, will they line their pockets or are they just doing all this because of their love of the game. I am of the view that there are people involved here that envisage a capital gain at little or no risk to themselves. I'd suggest that all the risk is with the clubs and the associations, who in fairness are telling these guys to get lost. Unfortunately, they are saying it too politely


Secondly - if the league is being marketed by a professional sports company (who yuo would assume know what they're doing), then why shouldn't they take a percentage of the gate ? 90% of a bigger pie is likely to be better for clubs than 100% of a smaller one.

The league at this moment in time is being marketed and while it obviously isn't being done to your satisfaction, reasonable people will recognise the effort that is going into marketing. MSN didn't just happen and don't under-estimate the leverage that the International game has in getting a good deal for the local game. I also think you're over-estimateing the value of marketing. A match between the club that came 10th for the previous 3 season and the club that came 9th for the previous 3 seasons will be an unattractive fixture that nobody will want to see no matter how much quality marketing is done.


Thirdly - I'm not sure if you're dismissing their estimation that 10% of gate receipts across a season could amount to €500k, but that is an extremely achieable figure. Indeed - the league is probably at or near that sort of level of aggregate gate money already - so I would strongly assert that such a target is far too low

I wasn't claiming that the figure was too low. I was just highlighting that these guys to date were projecting the financial benefits without saying too much about the costs.


Why wouldn't they provide funding for it ? :confused: They didn't have a problem funding the GAA, greyhound racing, horseracing or any other number of sports that had got their sh!t together. Your just starting to ooze sneering prejudice here now TBH. How's about - rather than dismiss everything here without a single justificatiion - you start to provide somethig to back-up your 'views'.

Of course the Governments fund sport and I expect they will cintinue to do. However, what they NEVER do and will never do, is provide funding for the day-to-day operation of sport clubs. The clear impression given in yesterday's article was that the Governments were a possible source of funding for the operation of the clubs and the league. That will not happen, north or south.


This is only side-show stuff really - although City will probably make about £250k stg from each of our Celtic friendlies, for example, so there's money to be made there (even if we did have to pay for that visit). But it's hardly something I think they should be focusing on, and it's hardly a reason for dissing the idea of an all-island league.

Well they focused on it which does show a bit of desperation on their part. Clubs at this moment in time are free to arrange friendlies with whoever they like. Why friendlies were introduced as an incentive to enter an AIL league will mystify many. As for representative matches against the SPL do I have to waste my time pointing out the stupidity of this?


The SPL inter-league stuff would again be just side-show, though you're sneering is just getting tedious by this stage. If the AIL was a much better supported, better funded, higher standard league with better facilities - why wouldn't SPL select teams want to play it ? :confused: But i digress....

Because the SPL couldn't even pull together a team even if they wanted to. The full Scotland team can't even get SPL players to play in full friendly international. Do you reckon we'd see Barry Ferguson and Jackie McManus over playing a selection from 10 clubs in Ireland? This is delusional stuff!!


Conversely - the more I hear of your ill-considered sneering, the sillier you seem. I'm grateful that the clubs appear to be listening to a professional sports marketing company capable of presenting and justifying a business case, rather than a random punter on the internet who appears to type without thinking.

You along with FD and JR need to get real. How can a 10-team league with no P&R remain competitive? Why should the FAI and the IFA hand over control of the domestic game and places in European competitions to a self-appointed body that appears to have absolutely no interest in the many hundreds of football clubs north and south of the border that the FAI and IFA have jurisdication over.

Personally I'd love to say to the 10 clubs; away you go and form your own league without any european places and just watch these giant egos trying to make a go of it.

Anybody is free to come forward with a proposal and have that proposal fairly evaluated and assessed. However, what is not right is that we have a self-appointed body going around meeting clubs behind the associations backs and meeting players behind the clubs back and making all sorts of promises. Football on this island is under the control of the FAI and the IFA and it is up to those two bodies to bring an All Ireland League Proposal forward when the time is right and to do so in a way that protects the interest of the game at all levels in this country.

Delaney, Wells, Gavin have told this group to get lost. Why aren't they getting the message?

[passerrby]

Well if the prize money is £50k for the team that comes last then let them says its £50k, and stop £150k PR crap. This is just spin that is meant to mislead. They appear to plan to give money and then take it away, or is it take it away and give it back? Like will a club have to actually pay £100k a year or do they just say 'take it off our prise money'



Well, put it this way, will they line their pockets or are they just doing all this because of their love of the game. I am of the view that there are people involved here that envisage a capital gain at little or no risk to themselves. I'd suggest that all the risk is with the clubs and the associations, who in fairness are telling these guys to get lost. Unfortunately, they are saying it too politely



The league at this moment in time is being marketed and while it obviously isn't being done to your satisfaction, reasonable people will recognise the effort that is going into marketing. MSN didn't just happen and don't under-estimate the leverage that the International game has in getting a good deal for the local game. I also think you're over-estimateing the value of marketing. A match between the club that came 10th for the previous 3 season and the club that came 9th for the previous 3 seasons will be an unattractive fixture that nobody will want to see no matter how much quality marketing is done.



I wasn't claiming that the figure was too low. I was just highlighting that these guys to date were projecting the financial benefits without saying too much about the costs.



Of course the Governments fund sport and I expect they will cintinue to do. However, what they NEVER do and will never do, is provide funding for the day-to-day operation of sport clubs. The clear impression given in yesterday's article was that the Governments were a possible source of funding for the operation of the clubs and the league. That will not happen, north or south.



Well they focused on it which does show a bit of desperation on their part. Clubs at this moment in time are free to arrange friendlies with whoever they like. Why friendlies were introduced as an incentive to enter an AIL league will mystify many. As for representative matches against the SPL do I have to waste my time pointing out the stupidity of this?



Because the SPL couldn't even pull together a team even if they wanted to. The full Scotland team can't even get SPL players to play in full friendly international. Do you reckon we'd see Barry Ferguson and Jackie McManus over playing a selection from 10 clubs in Ireland? This is delusional stuff!!



You along with FD and JR need to get real. How can a 10-team league with no P&R remain competitive? Why should the FAI and the IFA hand over control of the domestic game and places in European competitions to a self-appointed body that appears to have absolutely no interest in the many hundreds of football clubs north and south of the border that the FAI and IFA have jurisdication over.

Personally I'd love to say to the 10 clubs; away you go and form your own league without any european places and just watch these giant egos trying to make a go of it.

Anybody is free to come forward with a proposal and have that proposal fairly evaluated and assessed. However, what is not right is that we have a self-appointed body going around meeting clubs behind the associations backs and meeting players behind the clubs back and making all sorts of promises. Football on this island is under the control of the FAI and the IFA and it is up to those two bodies to bring an All Ireland League Proposal forward when the time is right and to do so in a way that protects the interest of the game at all levels in this country.

Delaney, Wells, Gavin have told this group to get lost. Why aren't they getting the message?

well said that man

[BohDiddley]

"Intransigence"? Where is your evidence of this? If you're referring to the IFA, I would point out that they have been cooperating closely with the FAI for some years now, on a number of matters (including the Setanta All-Ireland Cup), despite the offence caused by the FAI's having gone back on their prior agreement not to select NI-born players.

And part of this cooperation has been meeting with the FAI and Platinum etc to see whether an AIL could be further progressed. However, the IFA is slap bang in the middle of the biggest re-organisation of their own domestic League set-up in over a quarter of a century. Therefore, in the clear absence of any bad-faith on the IFA's part, any reasonable observer would accept this as their stated reason for not proceeding with this proposal in the short-term.

As for a "breakaway", there is no chance of that happening now. Quite obviously the IFA would never support this, it seems clear that the FAI will row in with them, and UEFA will never go over the heads of their two Member Associations.

After all, even the mighty English clubs were not prepared to risk a true breakaway when the English Premiership was set-up - they accepted that it could only be done under the auspices of the FA. And somehow, I suspect that teams like Man U and Liverpool have somewhat more clout than the likes of Galway United or Drogheda....
Fundamentally, an all-island league would produce a top tier on the island with better clubs, better players, and better facilities. However administratively inconvenient, that is what we should be looking for.
There will of course be bureaucratic inertia, but we should try to overcome that. The blazers might be opposed, lower-ranked clubs might be opposed, but we need to get away from the parochialism that currently allows the game to be so easily dismissed.

[jebus]

Fundamentally, an all-island league would produce a top tier on the island with better clubs, better players, and better facilities. However administratively inconvenient, that is what we should be looking for.
There will of course be bureaucratic inertia, but we should try to overcome that. The blazers might be opposed, lower-ranked clubs might be opposed, but we need to get away from the parochialism that currently allows the game to be so easily dismissed.

The idea that a fan of a club that was bailed out of becoming a 'lower ranked club' so recently thinks it's okay to look down their nose at these clubs is what's wrong with this league. When we need to work together everyone just seems to pull things further apart, this AIL proposal is one such occasion

[BohDiddley]

Sorry if you've taken offence Jebus. I think the proposal to have an AIL is probably more achievable in our lifetime than the abolition of league tables.

[Terry]

Dont know if it has been posted here already, but GUFC has told the FAI that they will no longer be considering themselves for the AIL but still back it 100%.

[SMorgan]

That's a bit of a strange position to be taking, is it not, Terry?

"We support it, but go ahead without us".

Has anybody seriously considered that implications for GUFC of an AIL without GUFC? I don't think so!!