Is there now a Big 3?

[Rovers Maniac]

I think another season or two and there will be a clear split between the clubs with vasts amounts of money, Pats, Drogs and Bohs these 3 seem to be able to afford whatever or whoever. I could not believe Drogs have 27 full timers on their books that is a massive squad. It is amazing that Drogs are doing so poorly with their set up. Are the fans there starting to ask questions about Doolin?

I am not sure about Cork or Derry but both are better supported than either of those 3 and when you see Gamble looking like he will be lured away to Pats, a club with traditionally a less attractive team with a poorer support than his present club. It will also be interesting to see how the hoops will get on in Tallaght, i can see them getting very good crowds at the start but the long term is much more uncertain. However i can't see them cross the divide without a big backer.

[Dodge]

In a nutshell, no. These things come in cycles. At various times loads of clubs have threatened to dominate, usually through spending. I'd guess the last team that won the league without being one the top 2/3 spenders in the league was Pats in 1990. Ever since then money has talked (in pretty much every league in the world)

Pats, bohs and Droghea (who aren't near top 3 in league BTW) will **** up sooner or later

[Rovers Maniac]

In a nutshell, no. These things come in cycles. At various times loads of clubs have threatened to dominate, usually through spending. I'd guess the last team that won the league without being one the top 2/3 spenders in the league was Pats in 1990. Ever since then money has talked (in pretty much every league in the world)

Pats, bohs and Droghea (who aren't near top 3 in league BTW) will **** up sooner or later

I don't know never have we seen such money in the league of Ireland among these clubs to me it is a first. I know Pats have a big squad but 27 full time players is simply massive no club has ever been able to afford that. No club has even won the league bar Shels with the money those 3 clubs have behind them. Traditionally it swings but it may not swing again for a long time. Dundalk in 1995 were the last team to win witout any investment into the playing staff imo.

[dancinpants]

I'd guess the last team that won the league without being one the top 2/3 spenders in the league was Pats in 1990. Ever since then money has talked

The Derry team of 1997 were hardly galacticos in fairness, the squad being made up mostly of locals and youngsters.

[dublinred]

There seams to be a serious split at the moment between football clubs and developers clubs , Shels started this trend and look at the mess they are in now.The big 3 can smash any competition by simply buying up the remaining decent players in the league and putting them onto there already inflated wage bills , this could simply be stopped if the FAI had the brains to ensure that the 65% rule was based on operational income and excluded large single donations and profits from ground slaes.

[HarpoJoyce]

The prize money allow for a Big Four. And with the distribution of the placings and trophies last year can it be considered that there were Five winners with four UEFA competitors and Derry City in the Setanta Cup?

Clubs invested heavily in the past but reassesed their situation. I'm thinking more of Bohs' rebudgeting and managing their finances before having another crack at the professional experiment than anyone else.

Is there room for six clubs providing there is a revolving winning system, with each six picking up a trophy/qualify for financial rewards every two or three years?

[GavinZac]

There seams to be a serious split at the moment between football clubs and developers clubs , Shels started this trend and look at the mess they are in now.The big 3 can smash any competition by simply buying up the remaining decent players in the league and putting them onto there already inflated wage bills , this could simply be stopped if the FAI had the brains to ensure that the 65% rule was based on operational income and excluded large single donations and profits from ground slaes.

Why?.

[dublinred]

Why?.

I think the current situation is ridiculous , Bohs(or it is shels mk 2) will lose millions this year but will win the league, the heart is being ripped out of a lot of clubs , Cork and Derry may mount a challenge in the foreseeable future but will then probably loss half their team in July if they are really threatening.

[Dodge]

The Derry team of 1997 were hardly galacticos in fairness, the squad being made up mostly of locals and youngsters.

Like Young Tony O'Dowd in goal? Every team has had their youngster or locals (doesn't mean to say poorly paid...) but I stand by what I said

For the record Pats have 21 profressionals. Not big. Not saying we're not one of the biggest spenders either BTW

What the league needs is more investment, not less...

[Rovers Maniac]

23 Players on your website, who are the 2 that are not professionals?

[GavinZac]

I think the current situation is ridiculous , Bohs(or it is shels mk 2) will lose millions this year but will win the league, the heart is being ripped out of a lot of clubs , Cork and Derry may mount a challenge in the foreseeable future but will then probably loss half their team in July if they are really threatening.

So then we just need to find investors of our own. Thats the way football works and has always worked. Even decades ago the great teams of Italy and Spain were funded by their societies and presidents, respectively.

[Dodge]

HAverty and Foran.

[Rovers Maniac]

Still though 23 players is a big squad + backroom staff

[dublinred]

So then we just need to find investors of our own. Thats the way football works and has always worked. Even decades ago the great teams of Italy and Spain were funded by their societies and presidents, respectively.

Ever since our ground was put in trust and cannot be sold there has been a shortage of investors sniffing around for some reason :-)

[dancinpants]

Like Young Tony O'Dowd in goal? Every team has had their youngster or locals (doesn't mean to say poorly paid...) but I stand by what I said

Do I have to explain the word "mostly" to you? :confused:

Care to give me more examples in that squad where we used "the money" to buy that league title?

[sonofstan]

Impossible to know for certain of course, but Cork's wage bill must be close enough to ours or Pats' if rumours are true: certainly no one at Bohs is making what G O'C is reputed to be on. Seems to me there's a big 5 - although Derry will continue to employ the béal bocht when it suits them.

[mr.untitled]

Pats, bohs and Droghea (who aren't near top 3 in league BTW) will **** up sooner or later

since when is 4 points not near?

[SkStu]

to the original poster. NO WAY.

You should all realise by now, there is only one big club in Ireland.

Bohemian FC.


:p :D :p

(just giving you all what you want)

[Dodge]

Where did I say you bought the league title? I said you were among the top 2/3 spenders in the league that year. Whch I believe you were.

On the 23 players, I honestly didn't think it was that big. Maybe I'm comparing it to our teams around 98/99 when we had HUGE squads

[Dodge]

since when is 4 points not near?
Since you're closer to 7th than 3rd

[mr.untitled]

get back to me when your league and all Ireland champions

[Dodge]

When my league and all Ireland champions what?

Easy joke...


Point I was making was that their obviously won't be a dominating top 3 as the fisrt post suggests as one of them is 5th, but cotinue to miss the main point and take offence at facts

[mr.untitled]

the facts are that we are 4 off 3rd and 3 off 7th,
the fact is that we are near the top 3,
the fact is that you should have put a full stop (period) after 'fact'.

as for the main point, you are right (with the exception of what I pointed out).

[garyderry]

Do I have to explain the word "mostly" to you? :confused:

Care to give me more examples in that squad where we used "the money" to buy that league title?


Dont talk ****e, we were big spenders under felix, and almost went to the wire
over it, only for fans going door to door collecting money and doing anything and everything the taxman woukd have shut us down for good.

No way did we do that on the cheap

[holidaysong]

I'd guess the last team that won the league without being one the top 2/3 spenders in the league was Pats in 1990. Ever since then money has talked (in pretty much every league in the world

Dundalk in 1995 would be sooner than that.

[MariborKev]

Dont talk ****e, we were big spenders under felix, and almost went to the wire
over it, only for fans going door to door collecting money and doing anything and everything the taxman woukd have shut us down for good.

No way did we do that on the cheap

Have to agree, Diamond came in and bankrolled us.

[OneRedArmy]

Given the wealth invested in the Big 3 at the minute is property driven, I don't think its any more sustainable that previous investments in Derry, Shels (chuckle) and other teams.

Lots of people think they've found the Holy Grail, Shels certainly came closest, but its always ended in tears. No reason to think the current investments are any different.

[dortie]

Given the wealth invested in the Big 3 at the minute is property driven, I don't think its any more sustainable that previous investments in Derry, Shels (chuckle) and other teams.

Lots of people think they've found the Holy Grail, Shels certainly came closest, but its always ended in tears. No reason to think the current investments are any different.

Kev nobody in the league seems to think we are not spending at present, far from the truth, the wage bill at Derry isnt far off 'the top 3'. Average players at Derry are on a grand a week.

[OneRedArmy]

Kev nobody in the league seems to think we are not spending at present, far from the truth, the wage bill at Derry isnt far off 'the top 3'. Average players at Derry are on a grand a week.I agree and our investment is no more sustainable than anybody elses.

There's only so many draw tickets you can sell.

[Mr A]

So on the face of it, probably only UCD and maybe Bray are actually operating in a sustainable manner at the moment. This season could yet descend into farce as more and more clubs hit financial bother. At the moment at least one quarter of the clubs in the premier are in some level of trouble.

[lofty9]

Kev nobody in the league seems to think we are not spending at present, far from the truth, the wage bill at Derry isnt far off 'the top 3'. Average players at Derry are on a grand a week.

Then add what the manager and coaching staff are on!:eek:

We've had the top two at the Brandywell in the last week and the crowds have been pathetic. I honestly don't see how we can sustain it.

[dublinred]

So on the face of it, probably only UCD and maybe Bray are actually operating in a sustainable manner at the moment. This season could yet descend into farce as more and more clubs hit financial bother. At the moment at least one quarter of the clubs in the premier are in some level of trouble.

A lot of clubs are in bother the 65% rule has been got around by the clubs in was trying to cap and is putting clubs who own their grounds and whos only major ourtlay is wages in bother , i agree with the earlier post that wages for average players are at riduculous levels,some players are demanding moves because certain clubs can treble their existing package yet still operate within the 65% .

[MariborKev]

Then add what the manager and coaching staff are on!:eek:

We've had the top two at the Brandywell in the last week and the crowds have been pathetic. I honestly don't see how we can sustain it.

Watch it. Any more questions like that and you'll be branded a knocker by posters on dcc.com......:D

[dancinpants]

Dont talk ****e, we were big spenders under felix, and almost went to the wire
over it, only for fans going door to door collecting money and doing anything and everything the taxman woukd have shut us down for good.

No way did we do that on the cheap

Which playing staff members were we payin' a fortune to that year? Curran? Higgsy? Pizza? Beckett? R Coyle? Semple? Mohan? Dykes? Who? I'm intrigued now. :confused:

[lofty9]

Which playing staff members were we payin' a fortune to that year? Curran? Higgsy? Pizza? Beckett? R Coyle? Semple? Mohan? Dykes? Who? I'm intrigued now. :confused:

I'd say it had more to do with the low Saturday night crowds ,therefore a lack of income. We really were poorly supported that year.

[dortie]

We've had the top two at the Brandywell in the last week and the crowds have been pathetic. I honestly don't see how we can sustain it.


Our crowds are still much healthier than clubs paying players double the salary though.

[Aaron]

Have to agree, Diamond came in and bankrolled us.

I dont understand why multi-millionaires like him and Phillip O'Doherty dont plough abit of their money into the club and make the club full-time on all levels.

If we had the money we could employ commercial and marketing directors and improve the clubs perception in the city. Money to improve the squad and get to the CL group stages. Its not to say the top teams in the league are a million miles away from it.

With CL group stages comes crowds, merchandise will be sold and the clubs profile will drastically rise. I know it all sounds abit far-fetched but it is possible. This goes for any clubs in the league.

Derry is big enough to attract 15,000 to games if the above all happened. Add in the fact that we get supporters from outside the City, like Strabane, Limavady etc..

Its not to say the above 2 havnt got the money to make this possible.

[Rovers Maniac]

I dont understand why multi-millionaires like him and Phillip O'Doherty dont plough abit of their money into the club and make the club full-time on all levels.

If we had the money we could employ commercial and marketing directors and improve the clubs perception in the city. Money to improve the squad and get to the CL group stages. Its not to say the top teams in the league are a million miles away from it.

With CL group stages comes crowds, merchandise will be sold and the clubs profile will drastically rise. I know it all sounds abit far-fetched but it is possible. This goes for any clubs in the league.

Derry is big enough to attract 15,000 to games if the above all happened. Add in the fact that we get supporters from outside the City, like Strabane, Limavady etc..

Its not to say the above 2 havnt got the money to make this possible.

God it's oh so simple ! Can't see in reason your blueprint won't work.

[dublinred]

Could be back to big 2 as the dalymounT developer Liam Carroll is reported to have cashflow problems.

[OneRedArmy]

I dont understand why multi-millionaires like him and Phillip O'Doherty dont plough abit of their money into the club and make the club full-time on all levels.

If we had the money we could employ commercial and marketing directors and improve the clubs perception in the city. Money to improve the squad and get to the CL group stages. Its not to say the top teams in the league are a million miles away from it.

With CL group stages comes crowds, merchandise will be sold and the clubs profile will drastically rise. I know it all sounds abit far-fetched but it is possible. This goes for any clubs in the league.

Derry is big enough to attract 15,000 to games if the above all happened. Add in the fact that we get supporters from outside the City, like Strabane, Limavady etc..

Its not to say the above 2 havnt got the money to make this possible.Its a safer bet picking a horse in the Grand National and putting your money on that.

See Shels for an example of what happens when you nearly, but not quite, make the CL.

Could be back to big 2 as the dalymounT developer Liam Carroll is reported to have cashflow problems..Should be fun digging up the thread where the Bohs fans repeatedly claimed they can't lose out of that deal.

[Dalymountrower]

Its a safer bet picking a horse in the Grand National and putting your money on that.

See Shels for an example of what happens when you nearly, but not quite, make the CL.
Should be fun digging up the thread where the Bohs fans repeatedly claimed they can't lose out of that deal.


I`ll save you the bother. If Carroll pulls out of the deal we get to keep the deposit and retain our ground.

[Rovers Maniac]

You will have a mountain of debt built up from the way Bohs is run, which i m sure you would have to admit is poor even from LOI standards. I can seee this ending in tears for Bohs.

[Réiteoir]

The €4 million in the bank says otherwise

[pete]

When we won the league in 2005 Shels & Drogs both had larger budgets. It is only after that win that our budgets have got out of control a little due to players looking for & being paid more money.

I think the only club to retain its squad in recent years after winning the league was Shels because they were spending a lot of money to keep the players.

I don't know how out budget compares with Drogs, Bohs & Pats but our crowds are almost double theirs. We may not match the numbers of 2005 but if we top of the league crowds would increase a lot. We also always get good crowds for Europe.

[Rovers Maniac]

The €4 million in the bank says otherwise

Won't cover your losses form the last 3 seasons and you are paying back a €4 million loan? Hardly an ideal situation, worrying times in D7

[dublinred]

I`ll save you the bother. If Carroll pulls out of the deal we get to keep the deposit and retain our ground.

Would the deposit be worth more than the dip in property values? A lot of people in similar situations have let the deposits go on apartments/houses they have bought of plan if the selling price has fallen more than the deposit.

[pineapple stu]

Would the deposit be worth more than the dip in property values?
Irrelevant if they have the deposit and keep the property.

In fairness to Bohs, if the deal does collapse, they do seem to come out of it very well with non-refundable deposits. But as Rovers Maniac noted, E4m will only last a couple of years with the losses the club are racking up.

[Dodge]

But as Rovers Maniac noted, E4m will only last a couple of years with the losses the club are racking up.

IS it not gone already? Might've took that up wrong somewhere.

Also is the court case with Albion still going?

[pineapple stu]

Dunno; they seem to find a bit more to sell off and keep afloat.

Bottom line, if it's not gone now, E4m will be gone in a few years.

[ps bohs]

Won't cover your losses form the last 3 seasons and you are paying back a €4 million loan? Hardly an ideal situation, worrying times in D7


were going to rack up millions of debt not pay anyone ,steal and not even pay our laundry bills then get bailed out by the council with a free stadium and still hold our heads up high and lecture other clubs