View Full Version : Pro Cycling (inc Tour de France) 2008
Young guy this time, only 27. He's also Spanish, so the toungues will wag, especially seeing as how Operacion Puerto was handled by Spanish authorities.
Well, I'd say there was a huge sigh of relief when a couple of "favourite" from another spanish team were shot out the back on the Tourmalet... The Saunier Duval performances also raise eyebrows, but it's good that some of the teams that are clearly anti-doping are doing well - Columbia, Garmin & CSC all do lots of independent testing.
One guy on another site (can't remember which one) suggests that its a little suss that there haven't been a few more caught, and implied a cover up.
I doubt it - sure they're flagging it as a success.
Meanwhile, apparently an Irish guy, David McCann, is second in the Tour of Qinghai Lake. Anyone here heard of him before?
McCann has been around a long time, iirc he's ridden a lot in America, but I could be mistaken (as there were a few other Irish riders out there)
Bluebeard
16/07/2008, 12:44 PM
McCann has been around a long time, iirc he's ridden a lot in America, but I could be mistaken (as there were a few other Irish riders out there)
I thought that he'd retired!
(I also though he was called Daniel McCann for some reason - wiki suggests otherwise:o)
Bluebeard
17/07/2008, 11:41 AM
Ricco just tested positive. A right pain as I'd really enjoyed watching him in the tour. Better that he's caught though, but still, a body really does feel cheated by him, having been so elated on his "triumph".:mad:
Saunier Duval have withdrawn as a result, so the KOM falls to Sebastian Lang who finished yesterday ranked third in that category. De La Fuente and Piepoli must be enraged to a great degree.
Schumi
17/07/2008, 11:47 AM
Ricco just tested positive.FFS. Really enjoyed his win last weekend. :mad:
Not really much of a surprise, considering their dominance in the mountains. That type of performance as to Hautacam raises eyebrows, so it's a good thing that he was positive. Also good that the test picked up 3rd generation EPO. The way they dominated all the mountain stages wasn't good for the image. Naturally high heamocrit me arse. btw I think that's the third targetted test that has resulted in a non-negative result.
TheBoss
17/07/2008, 1:56 PM
It is just annoying to see a talented rider have to do this, I was really impressed like many but this justs questions you own judgement about it.
Bluebeard
18/07/2008, 2:07 PM
Just in case any of us had faith in Piepoli's win, apparently he's been sacked by Saunier Duval, along with Ricco, for doping practices.:mad:
It really is heartbreaking stuff...
BTW Dave McCann rode the Road Race for the North a few years ago. Raced in Asia and I think won stages on Tour de Langkawi (or possibly Korea). Won the national championship a couple of times too I think
Just in case any of us had faith in Piepoli's win, apparently he's been sacked by Saunier Duval, along with Ricco, for doping practices.:mad:
No non-negative yet, but admitted to the team manager after Ricco was busted apparently. Cobo so far appears to be clean, but remains to be seen. I've no time for the managers that say they trusted the riders - they could all be implementing testing like CSC, Columbia and Garmin and be sure. It's good that Dan Martin is with one of the clean teams.
Another great stage yesterday, pity Menchov crashed when he launched the attack. Probably better for Evans to be out of yellow - he simply doesn't have the team to defend it. Interesting how CSC play it - they've so many options...
TheBoss
21/07/2008, 1:27 PM
It was an interesting stage and exiting stage, You did not expect what happened, and I think the same will happen again on Tuesday.
The world drugs tour still making the news?
The world drugs tour still making the news?
Yep, welcome to the thread
Billsthoughts
23/07/2008, 8:05 AM
The world drugs tour still making the news?
No thats the Heineken Cup your thinking of...
No thats the Heineken Cup your thinking of...
I think he's just a few months to late Euro 2008.
Have many rugby and football players tested positive for drugs in the recent years? I've been away
How extensive is the testing in Football & Rugby, compared to cycling? If you don't look, you won't find.
passinginterest
23/07/2008, 1:15 PM
I meant to post this the other day. Not much point starting a new thread for it and as EPO is the main drug concerned I think it's fairly relevant. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7516484.stm
Basically the article presents evidence that some labs are ignoring positive EPO results.
Bluebeard
23/07/2008, 1:26 PM
Have many rugby and football players tested positive for drugs in the recent years? I've been away
Macy is on the mark, very few tests are taking place in football, slightly more in Rugby. Seeing as you ask this should give you
some answers (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/drugsinsport/2297419/Rugby-tops-list-of-drug-test-failures.html).
Maybe cycling should stop looking so because that sport has become a farce. Leave them all at it and see what chemist wins
Maybe cycling should stop looking so because that sport has become a farce. Leave them all at it and see what chemist wins
Or maybe people that aren't interested should just butt out if they not interested and stick to the sports that don't test. Then they can carry on in ignorant bliss thinking all is fine, dandy and clean.
You're right, I am not interested but that's because it has become a joke of an event. The worst part about it seems to be entirely down to the riders for ruining for the sport. Their blatant disregard continually for the rules has reduced the tour to a minor story bar drug test announcements.
Rugby and football do test actually. How many top line players have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in football and rugby in recent memory?
They don't test to same extent. ffs cortisone is a badge of honour in football :rolleyes:
TheBoss
23/07/2008, 2:33 PM
Cycling in a funny way does the best possible testing, the numbers of drug users has dramatically dropped and the sport is heading towards a clean sport, which is great.
Update Here: The Legendary L'Alpe D'Huez is not so far away now, about 15 Mins away. This will have a big say on who might win the tour. Frank Schleck, I think will gain the most time on the rivals, looks the best so far and his team are doing a great job for him.
dublinred
23/07/2008, 2:36 PM
I think the team with the best chemist usually wins, a good chemist can conceal the enhancers.
blatant disregard continually for the rules has reduced the tour to a minor story bar drug test announcements.
its a minor story here in Ireland because there's no Irish involvement (and still brodacast 3-6 hours live a day and a highlights show). In England last week i
Cavendish endevours was getting more coverage in the broadsheets than any other sport (The guardian had a daily column from him). Elsewhere in contintental europe is its among the biggest sporting events every year.
Simply put, if you've no interest in it, don't bother watching it or reading about it (as you obviously haven't anyway) and don't bother commenting on it.
Can we get the knobhead posts deleted off the thread please? And spoilers if anyone's posting up what's happening, thanks for those of us avoiding all news until the highlights...
sastre in yellow. Rode the whole climb on his own to take the jersey from team mate Frank. Granted Sastres is team leader but I've never seen an attack on the yellow by a team mate before. Watched a bit of it on Tg4. Kohl and Evans were never going to make time on the CSC lads. I still think Evans could win it with a great TT on Friday
Can we get the knobhead posts deleted off the thread please? And spoilers if anyone's posting up what's happening, thanks for those of us avoiding all news until the highlights...
Questioning the ehtics of todays cyclists are knobhead comments? Lots of knobheads have written many knobhead articls about your sport so. Have a relatively clean event and maybe some of the knobheads won't have an gripe and might actually watch it
Billsthoughts
24/07/2008, 8:19 AM
The thread is about the tour de france. The cycling. If there is a positive test then by all means comment on it. Dont make blanket sweeping statements like "they are all on drugs - whats the point of watching it" because its factually incorrect and makes you sound like you are just trying to start a row for the sake of it. Its a good open tour this year if you are into cycling you should have watched it. If your not into cycling why are you posting in the thread? Start a new thread about doping in all sports if you want.
Questioning the ehtics of todays cyclists are knobhead comments? Lots of knobheads have written many knobhead articls about your sport so. Have a relatively clean event and maybe some of the knobheads won't have an gripe and might actually watch it
I didn't name anyone, but the cap must fit. You just made wind up comments tarring everyone with the same brush which shows you know nothing about cycling and you know nothing about doping if you really think it is only cycling that's effected. The UCI have introduced a passport system which will track blood levels 365 days a year to show anomalies, and several of the teams have their own independent testing on top of UCI and Federation controls. Maybe you're just naive about other sports, but if you think the once in a blue moon, extremely limited tests that the likes of football and rugby do make them clean, that's your prerogative.
I'd say spoiler tags can be removed now? I feel CSC left it too late - should've sent Sastre up the road on the Croix de Fer and really put the others under pressure. I don't see how they have enough time on Evans for the Time Trial...
Stuttgart88
24/07/2008, 9:05 AM
This is getting really exciting and I can't wait for the time trial on Saturday. Much as I love listening to Liggett, I feel he's a bit of a John Motson of the cycling world - you love his enthusiasm but you take his comments with a pinch of salt. At the start he said 90 seconds was the likely TT difference, and the gap is virtually that. Let's see...
What if only seconds separate two or more riders after the TT? My understanding is that there is a gentleman's agreement not to attack the yellow jersey on the last stage if his lead is meaningful but if it's only a few seconds I presume this doesn't apply. That said, on a shortish flat stage where all the sprinters' teams are vying for position I assume it's virtually impossible to create any gaps on the last stage.
On the EPO issue: I heard that Roche, the Swiss drug company, alerted the French anti-doping authorities to their new variant of EPO which is not yet detectable. However, they put markers in the stuff that they produced. The testers, instead of testing for EPO, simply tested for the marker, so it was a concerted sting on riders they had identified.
Something along those lines anyway.
Dunno about that Macy, it was a pretty hard day and I'm not sure Sastre would've last that long on his own. Cancellera and some of the other CSC boys did a huge shift at the front and left Castre and the Schlecks pretty much fresh for the last big hill of the tour. Looking at the results from the first (shorter) ITT this year and Evans had a minute over Kohl, Sastres and Schleck who were all roughly the same. I think if vande Velde hadn't have crashed the other day it'd have been between himself and Evans. But we all know (well the ones that look at the sport) that the yellow jersey makes people do superhuman efforts so sastres still has a fighting chance
Stuttgart88
24/07/2008, 9:08 AM
The thread is about the tour de france. The cycling. If there is a positive test then by all means comment on it. Dont make blanket sweeping statements like "they are all on drugs - whats the point of watching it" because its factually incorrect and makes you sound like you are just trying to start a row for the sake of it. Its a good open tour this year if you are into cycling you should have watched it. If your not into cycling why are you posting in the thread? Start a new thread about doping in all sports if you want.Good man Bill!
Anyone watch the 20 great TdF moments after the main show on ITV4 last night? Great stuff, even if many of the protagonists were doped up.
Bluebeard
24/07/2008, 9:21 AM
Cancellara has been CSC's man of the Tour for me, and I'd say he is raging with the Schlecks and Sastre now. Look at the efforts he put in in the mountain stages this year - virtually team time-trialling them up the Pyrenees and Alps, giving his all for the team effort, and they repay that work by ballsing up the chance to genuinely get a minute or two up on Evans and Menchov.
What odds on Sastre and Schleck getting into a break in the last hours racing, then Cancellara causing the biggest messiest crash in recent tour history, holding up the bunch by a full minute and a half? Because if there is to be any chance of a CSC guy wear yellow in Paris, that could be the only way it will happen.
Dunno about that Macy, it was a pretty hard day and I'm not sure Sastre would've last that long on his own.
I didn't necessarily mean on his own, but left Frank Schleck and gone up the road with someone else in the team. To me it was like CSC settled for podiums instead of going all in for the win. They road like Postal/ Discovery would've, but without a great time trialler. I agree that obviously he'll raise his game in Yellow and has the advantage of being last off, so it's not a total given but you'd have to think Evans would have the same motivation to take it. And in fairness it'd be some win doing it virtually single handed, especially with the strength of CSC if Evans does take it...
I hadn't realised Vande Velde had crashed on the descent on Tuesday until Wednesday morning. Very bad luck as he'd seemingly limited his losses to around 30 seconds at the top.
Billsthoughts
24/07/2008, 9:38 AM
Good man Bill!
Anyone watch the 20 great TdF moments after the main show on ITV4 last night? Great stuff, even if many of the protagonists were doped up.
No but I was youtubeing old tour stages last nite. I never knew roche had attacked delgado on the flat at laplagne(sp). the 85 tour as well roche and kelly finished 3rd and 4th. There is a great stage were Roche attacks and Lemond follows only to be told not to push for the yellow cause hinault who had crashed the day before was behind him.
Fair point re the general lack of attacks from CSC.
And in fairness it'd be some win doing it virtually single handed, especially with the strength of CSC if Evans does take it...
Silence -Lotto specifically signed Popovych to be Evans "super-domestique" but he's been relatively poor this year. Apart from the CSC team none of the others have had any team help at all (and it looked to me like valverde was helping CSC yesterday too)
Youtube is terrific for cycling highlights.
Silence -Lotto specifically signed Popovych to be Evans "super-domestique" but he's been relatively poor this year.
Evans wanted to keep Horner instead - Popovych never lived up to the hype that was put on him. He's had an alright career that has been deemed a failure through no fault of his own...
Apart from the CSC team none of the others have had any team help at all (and it looked to me like valverde was helping CSC yesterday too)
I would've expected Periero to be up their with Valverde too. Evans was isolated a lot quicker than any of the others. I wouldn't be surprised to see him off to Tinkoff, perhaps more so if he doesn't win.
Youtube is terrific for cycling highlights.
*Curses the Government for not having nationwide broadband yet*
Dodge
24/07/2008, 10:07 AM
Evans wanted to keep Horner instead - Popovych never lived up to the hype that was put on him. He's had an alright career that has been deemed a failure through no fault of his own...
His career has been fine, and in previous tours he was immense for Armstrong (and particularly last year for Contador) but this year's tour he hasn't lasted the pace in the mountains as well. I forgot about Horner (but lets face it Evans was on his own for most of last year too)
Periero was injured earlier in the season and wasn't at 100% IMO
Regarding a possible move, I think a lot of cyclists will sit tight until they find out what teams are around. Gerolsteiner and Barloworld have announced they're quitting so that leaves quality riders like Schumacher, Kohl, Soler, Hunter without rides. Add in teams like Astana and now Saunier Duval probably being banned from le tour and there's less and less guaranteed tour spots. I think Garmin (and probably tinkoff) will be promoted to protour level
I thought the Protour was dead? Astana will be back next year. They have the same testing system as CSC so there's no reason to exclude them, especially after the Giro caving and letting them in this year. I think any new sponsors will be insisting on similar testing regimes from now on.
Dodge
24/07/2008, 11:00 AM
I thought the Protour was dead? Astana will be back next year. They have the same testing system as CSC so there's no reason to exclude them, especially after the Giro caving and letting them in this year. I think any new sponsors will be insisting on similar testing regimes from now on.
Protour is still going (although how meaningful it is without the grand tours and 4 of the 5 monuments is debateable). Either way there'll still be a team grading system.
Bluebeard
24/07/2008, 11:16 AM
The Protour is about as meaningful now as the ENECO Tour: yes, people would be happy to win it, but with a few exceptions, no-one is going to entire build their season on doing well in it. After Di Luca got shunted out last year, it lost a lot of what creditability it had. And it's pretty much dead in the water for the rest of the season now after the rest day conference in Pau...
Dodge
24/07/2008, 11:21 AM
And it's pretty much dead in the water for the rest of the season now after the rest day conference in Pau...
Missed that conference, anyone wanna give me the general gist. The actuallly tour "championship" was always rubbish but the idea that the top teams got automatic invites into the top races was the key.
If its gone, I'd imagine it would revert to the old divisional structure ?
Bluebeard
24/07/2008, 1:01 PM
Death of the Pro-Tour story (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/jul08/jul15news4), with some links to the continuation of the story.
Dunno about the divisional structure system - by the sounds of things, it could be a variation on the Pro-tour with different people in charge, and the organisers and teams getting more say. Of the Protour teams still existing at the time, only Astana were not there as they were not invited to the Tour. With Saunier Duval now gone from cycling, Tinkoff becoming a Russian National side, the threatened dawn of a British National side, and non-Protour teams like the "Irish" LPR Brakes, Agritubel Slipstream/Garmin and Barloworld making a major impact on the grand tours this and last year, I think it makes a lot more sense.
Cheers for the link Bluebeard, was in riga for that and missed it. (apologies to Macy for the misunderstanding earlier)
Wikipedia has decent pages on the divisional breakdown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCI_Continental_Tour and subsequent pages
Before the pro tour there was about 25-30 "Division one" teams and then "divison 2" (the current professional continental teams like Slipstream) and division 3 teams (like the Kelly An Post team)
Protour tried to limit the amount of teams in it and I remember a mad fight between some of the French team to get the last spot.
Bluebeard
24/07/2008, 1:36 PM
Interesting to see who is in the second tier. I have to admit to disgust at the lack of Irish cyclists on the major Irish teams - not even as stagiares! No Irish in the websites either - how unusual:D
Confidis had already announced they were pulling out of the ProTour, as they said it was no good for their sponsor to be going some of the places they had on the calendar and I suspect that was also the reason for a lot of other teams. One of the main selling points of the protour was automatic entry to the Grand Tours, but since that isn't the case anymore I guess there's less reason to treck around some of the places that the Protour committed them too.
Bluebeard
24/07/2008, 3:14 PM
Confidis had already announced they were pulling out of the ProTour, as they said it was no good for their sponsor to be going some of the places they had on the calendar and I suspect that was also the reason for a lot of other teams. One of the main selling points of the protour was automatic entry to the Grand Tours, but since that isn't the case anymore I guess there's less reason to treck around some of the places that the Protour committed them too.
True, it getting to be a case of
"Tour of Russia" - "Pray for Us"
"Tour Down Under" - "Pray for Us"
"Tour de France" - "Grant us your salvation"
SilkCut
26/07/2008, 2:31 AM
I really hope Evans cleans up on the time trial and wins this years tour. Living in Oz they are quite arrogant about what they achieve in all sports - some idiots seriously felt they should have won the 2006 world cup - Evans winning however would go some way to rebuilding the reputation of the TDF and pro cycling in general, there has never been any hint of him using drugs and he is so modest and down to earth in interviews that it beggars belief. The man is a machine, even more determined than Armstrong and it is obvious that a win would mean everything to him. I'm no expert on the sport so was just wondering how you guys felt about his chances?
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