Euro 2012 Scotland Ireland?

[TonyD]

Could people stop deluding themselves, please. I mean, seriously, we haven't even got a stadium worthy of the name to hold our domestic cup final in and people want to go running off to UEFA to offer them more pie in the sky nonsense. What is it with this country ? All fur coat and no knickers, as the old saying goes.

[pete]

All fur coat and no knickers, as the old saying goes.

Yup, just there for the big events and glory days.

[Schumi]

What 2 extra stadium
Hampden
Celtic Park
Ibrox
Murryfield
Pittodrie (22,800 at the moment can easily be renovated to 30,000)
Croke Park
Lansdowne Road

So that leaves one stadium that needs to be renovated and that could be either 1 in Dundee or Edinburgh would all need about 10,000 extra to their capcity.It has been repeatedly stated that UEFA don't want three stadia in the same city so only two of Hampden, Parkhead and Ibrox can be used.

[Dodge]

We hosted the U-19s a few years ago. Anyone know if UEFA were impressed or not?

U16s. And there's a massive difference

[NeilMcD]

It has been repeatedly stated that UEFA don't want three stadia in the same city so only two of Hampden, Parkhead and Ibrox can be used.

I have been told no to something by women and with a bit of persuasion you can end up getting what you want. So one should never take no for an answer.

[Schumi]

I have been told no to something by women and with a bit of persuasion you can end up getting what you want. So one should never take no for an answer.We're not exactly in a strong bargaining position in the first place though. In an emergency situation, a big country who could host it without building anything new would be miles ahead of us.

[NeilMcD]

Either was I. But yeah as I have said before I don't think we will be given it. THat is not to say that it could not happen.

[Kingdom]

That's 3 cities. Not a chance in hell without at least 3 or 4 more.



How is it irrelevant? It's very relevant.



One of the first stipulations from UEFA will be that no other events will take place in any of the grounds for the duration of the torunament and for probably 2 or 3 weeks beforehand.
While I'm not saying that it will go ahead or should go ahead, the idea of Croker not being used by the GAA during June isn't too unrealistic. After this summer it is unlikely that anything other than Leinster Finals will be held in Croker. The provincial grounds are in fine fettle.

[Torn-Ado]

Threads like this make me laugh.

[Greenforever]

We have track record in handling large crowds with potential for trouble. We have never hosted a match between 2 visiting teams.

And in fairness how many matches have Poland or Ukraine held between 2 visiting teams

[Greenforever]

Could people stop deluding themselves, please. I mean, seriously, we haven't even got a stadium worthy of the name to hold our domestic cup final in and people want to go running off to UEFA to offer them more pie in the sky nonsense. What is it with this country ? All fur coat and no knickers, as the old saying goes.


OUr domestic cup final is lucky to attract a crowd of 10,000 so thats a load of crap.

Croke Park is one of the top half dozen stadiums in the world, and if you take corporate facilities as a major factor it is probably in the top 3.

Ownership of the stadiums is irrelevant as long as they are available.

[Greenforever]

I have been told no to something by women and with a bit of persuasion you can end up getting what you want. So one should never take no for an answer.


Agreed

[Greenforever]

We're not exactly in a strong bargaining position in the first place though. In an emergency situation, a big country who could host it without building anything new would be miles ahead of us.

Very possible but if that was the case why isnt Euro 2008 in Spain and Euro 2012 given to Italy in the first place. (or replace with any of the major countries) EUEFA want to spread the games around.

[Greenforever]

Threads like this make me laugh.


glad to give you a laugh, do you always take no for an answer:D seriously only if you go after anything might you actually get it

[boovidge]

The Euros are much more likely to be given to England in the even that theyre taken from Ukraine and Poland. Great infrastructure and larger and more experienced security forces.

[gspain]

OUr domestic cup final is lucky to attract a crowd of 10,000 so thats a load of crap.

Croke Park is one of the top half dozen stadiums in the world, and if you take corporate facilities as a major factor it is probably in the top 3.

Ownership of the stadiums is irrelevant as long as they are available.

It is one of the biggest but don't kid yourself that it is anywhere near the top stadiums in the world.

In no particular order - Wembley, Millenium stadium, Stade de France, Allianz Arena (Munich) Dortmund, Schalke, Amsterdam arena

Where Croke Park falls down IMO - half the fans are out in the rain, queues for refreshments are ridiculous even at the corporate level at the Italy rugby match I was queueing for the whole of half time to get a pint. I've never even bothered trying at half time in the main seats. You are also a long way from the action in the upper tiers although it is probably better for GAA. I had one of the worst seats in Dortmund and Munich and still had a great view. The Stadiums in Japan were also on a differen tlevel.

I haven't been to the Emirates yet or the Bernabeu for many years. I believe both are top class.

[Greenforever]

It is one of the biggest but don't kid yourself that it is anywhere near the top stadiums in the world.

In no particular order - Wembley, Millenium stadium, Stade de France, Allianz Arena (Munich) Dortmund, Schalke, Amsterdam arena

Where Croke Park falls down IMO - half the fans are out in the rain, queues for refreshments are ridiculous even at the corporate level at the Italy rugby match I was queueing for the whole of half time to get a pint. I've never even bothered trying at half time in the main seats. You are also a long way from the action in the upper tiers although it is probably better for GAA. I had one of the worst seats in Dortmund and Munich and still had a great view. The Stadiums in Japan were also on a differen tlevel.

I haven't been to the Emirates yet or the Bernabeu for many years. I believe both are top class.

IMO it is definitley ahead of Stade de France and Amsterdam, having been in both. The millenium, i don't know about their corporate facilities. I was'nt over impressed with Yokohama.

Where it does score is it has I believe, more corporate boxes, permium level seats, which is where the major revenue is generated.

Wembly was falling down last time I was in it, but trust the new Wembley is up with the best, the others I've not been to.

The emirates modelled their corpoate facilities on Croker! Not ben there either.

[gspain]

IMO it is definitley ahead of Stade de France and Amsterdam, having been in both. The millenium, i don't know about their corporate facilities. I was'nt over impressed with Yokohama.

Where it does score is it has I believe, more corporate boxes, permium level seats, which is where the major revenue is generated.

Wembly was falling down last time I was in it, but trust the new Wembley is up with the best, the others I've not been to.

The emirates modelled their corpoate facilities on Croker! Not ben there either.

It probably has more corporate boxes and seats etc but it is all quantity not quality where Croke Park wins. I'm not used to enjoying corporate hospitality but I imagine you don't queue for 15 minutes in a rugby scrum to get a drink in these venues. I then took one look at the food queue and decided I wasn't that hungry.

The corporate area in Croke Park is nice behind the seats but the rest is pretty drab.

I found the Amsterdam Arena to be very plush - more like a hotel behind the seats than a football stadium. Easy to get food and drink as well, no queues for the toilets. It is a lot smaller though.

Stade de France is poor for merchandise but reasonable for food and drink. I think the seats are much better and also has a better atmosphere.

I think Croek Park needs to double or treble the amount of food/drink outlets, it needs more toilets. It needs proper roof especially with the amount of rain we get. There was clearly a decision made as well to cram in more seats rather than give more room aka the new Wembley with individual seats, cup holders etc.

I think huge revenue potential is being lost.

I haven't even mention the American stadiums where they take it to another elvel regarding merchandising and refreshments. You don't even have to leave your seat.

Now this is all relative to the best stadiums in the world. Croke Park is still a fabulous venue and we are lucky to be able to rent it while Lansdowne is being re-developed.

[TonyD]

OUr domestic cup final is lucky to attract a crowd of 10,000 so thats a load of crap.

Croke Park is one of the top half dozen stadiums in the world, and if you take corporate facilities as a major factor it is probably in the top 3.

Ownership of the stadiums is irrelevant as long as they are available.


How is it a "load of crap" ? Are you saying we have a stadium fit to host our Cup Final ? What should be the showcase event of the domestic season. If you are, then I beg to disagree. Even for a crowd of 10,000 (and quite a few recent cup finals have drawn comfortably more than that) there's nothing there. Tolka and Dalymount have less than 10,000 seats and both are in a very bad state of repair in any event. Why not start with that as a realistic objective, say a 20,000 seater stadium fit for such an event ? Or how about improving the overall standard of grounds in the league here ? Or does your "we can do anything if we want" ethos not extend to the local game ?

But no, we want the glamour without the foundations, the glitz without the substance. Talking about the qualities of Croke Park is all very well (and the ownership might just be very relevant in this case, taking into account the track record of the owners when it comes to "foreign games") but even that and a revamped Landsdowne ( and can anyone be sure that will be finished on schedule ?) still only gives two stadia, and that's before you even look at the rest of the logistics involved.

Honestly, let's get our heads out of the clouds shall we ? We're like a spoilt child who only wants to live on ice cream, and doesn't want to be bothered with nasty vegetables. But as we all should know by now, living on ice cream alone will eventually make you very sick indeed.

[Schumi]

Very possible but if that was the case why isnt Euro 2008 in Spain and Euro 2012 given to Italy in the first place. (or replace with any of the major countries) EUEFA want to spread the games around.Sure, but at short notice they won't be taking any chances.

[Greenforever]

How is it a "load of crap" ? Are you saying we have a stadium fit to host our Cup Final ? What should be the showcase event of the domestic season. If you are, then I beg to disagree. Even for a crowd of 10,000 (and quite a few recent cup finals have drawn comfortably more than that) there's nothing there. Tolka and Dalymount have less than 10,000 seats and both are in a very bad state of repair in any event. Why not start with that as a realistic objective, say a 20,000 seater stadium fit for such an event ? Or how about improving the overall standard of grounds in the league here ? Or does your "we can do anything if we want" ethos not extend to the local game ?

But no, we want the glamour without the foundations, the glitz without the substance. Talking about the qualities of Croke Park is all very well (and the ownership might just be very relevant in this case, taking into account the track record of the owners when it comes to "foreign games") but even that and a revamped Landsdowne ( and can anyone be sure that will be finished on schedule ?) still only gives two stadia, and that's before you even look at the rest of the logistics involved.

Honestly, let's get our heads out of the clouds shall we ? We're like a spoilt child who only wants to live on ice cream, and doesn't want to be bothered with nasty vegetables. But as we all should know by now, living on ice cream alone will eventually make you very sick indeed.


HAving a stadium fit to hold a match for 10K - 20K has nothing to do with a stadium holding 30K or 50K etc. They are 2 totally different things. I am fully behind any clubs ambitions to develop grounds etc or for FAi involvment in same. However there will never be a ground built to hold 50K plus just for an EL club, certainly not in the forseeable future.

You ask what should be the showpiece of the domestic season, the answer is the FAI cup final, but again nothing to do with hosting a major tournament.

As you should be aware Dalymount is due to be bulldozed and replaced with a state of the art stadium in Harristown, Drogs have just got planning permission for their new ground, the builders are back on site in Tallaght, so things are happening in the EL, but only thanks to people with the same YES WE CAN DO attitude that I have.


If you check the Lansdowne web site you'll see it is well on schedule.

Finally a successful bid for Ireland to part host would generate millions into FAI coffers which can help further develop the El and grassroots footballl etc.

[TonyD]

HAving a stadium fit to hold a match for 10K - 20K has nothing to do with a stadium holding 30K or 50K etc. They are 2 totally different things. I am fully behind any clubs ambitions to develop grounds etc or for FAi involvment in same. However there will never be a ground built to hold 50K plus just for an EL club, certainly not in the forseeable future.

My point was, if we can't build a stadium for 10-20,000 how the hell are we going to come up with one for 30-50K.

You ask what should be the showpiece of the domestic season, the answer is the FAI cup final, but again nothing to do with hosting a major tournament.

You read that sentence wrong, it wasnt a question, just part of the statement I was making about the Cup Final

As you should be aware Dalymount is due to be bulldozed and replaced with a state of the art stadium in Harristown, Drogs have just got planning permission for their new ground, the builders are back on site in Tallaght, so things are happening in the EL, but only thanks to people with the same YES WE CAN DO attitude that I have.

I'm aware of all that, and it's all good news. But we've seen lovely models of new grounds before, which haven't materialised. I hope the new Bohs and Drogs grounds do happen. If and when they do, then let's look at the next step. I've nothing against a "Can Do" attitude either. My whole point is lets get things right from the bottom up. Crawl, walk, run.

If you check the Lansdowne web site you'll see it is well on schedule.

Maybe so, and the FAI looks like it will have to go into serious debt to finance it's share of it, according to latest media reports, either that or have the IRFU take over the whole thing. Again, you may say this is irrelevent to the stadium issue, but remember, it's the FAI who would have to put together any bid to host a major championship.

Finally a successful bid for Ireland to part host would generate millions into FAI coffers which can help further develop the El and grassroots footballl etc.

It would also cost millions in the first place. I don't see how we could co-host with 2 stadia. 3/4 would surely be minimum. Where are the others coming from ?

[stojkovic]

Forget about stadia for a moment and consider other criteria. I read that its a UEFA requirement for a Champions League Final venue city to have 22,000 hotel rooms. I assume its the same for Euros matches with stadium capacities of 50,000+.

Dublin DOES NOT meet this criteria.

Maybe someone on here can confirm this.

[gspain]

Forget about stadia for a moment and consider other criteria. I read that its a UEFA requirement for a Champions League Final venue city to have 22,000 hotel rooms. I assume its the same for Euros matches with stadium capacities of 50,000+.

Dublin DOES NOT meet this criteria.

Maybe someone on here can confirm this.

Moscow wouldn't have come close in hotel rooms.

[Greenforever]

Forget about stadia for a moment and consider other criteria. I read that its a UEFA requirement for a Champions League Final venue city to have 22,000 hotel rooms. I assume its the same for Euros matches with stadium capacities of 50,000+.

Dublin DOES NOT meet this criteria.

Maybe someone on here can confirm this.

Dublin has well over 20,000 rooms, you will get a comprhemsive list in the be my guest guide as issued by the Irish Hotels Federation, you also have plenty of accomodation in UCD and DCU which is rented out commercially in the summer.

[Greenforever]

It would also cost millions in the first place. I don't see how we could co-host with 2 stadia. 3/4 would surely be minimum. Where are the others coming from ?


If we were to be awarded the games surely the coutry could develop two new stadiums to be used between all codes. Look at the amount of EL clubs and GAA counties looking to modernise etc.

Better spent then on tribunals and failed referndums etc.

[stojkovic]

Dublin has well over 20,000 rooms,

Do you know this for a fact because I heard that Dublin hasnt. Im not doubting you. It also says 'hotel' rooms and not student dorms. They obviously allow for the fact that some fans will chose budget accom. like dorms, caravans and tents;)

[Greenforever]

Do you know this for a fact because I heard that Dublin hasnt. Im not doubting you. It also says 'hotel' rooms and not student dorms. They obviously allow for the fact that some fans will chose budget accom. like dorms, caravans and tents;)


Almost 17,000 in 2007 with new hotels opening since then and extensions to existing hotels it is very close to 20,000. UCD accomodation are luxury apartments fully serviced, and pricy to rent in the summer, there are also plenty of short term rental apartments that would be included.

[elroy]

Unfortunately this is a non runner for us, the most realistic options imo would be Thomond Park and LR. Neither of which are currently available and Thomond wouldnt meet required standards. As much as I would dearly love Ireland to get to co host the tournament, we are a long way short infrastructrually. if any of ye have travelled to any sort of major european city from dublin, ye will have noticed the gulf in public transport. Dublin and Milan (Linate) are the only european cities that i can think off the top of my head that I have been to that the only transport available out of the airport is bus or taxi. That isnt good enough for cohosting a major european tournament.
I find it very hard to believe that the gaa would give the sole use of croker to football for 3/4 weeks and realistically to meet uefa requirements it would need to be solely used for football for this period.
So in reality all we have is LR. Not enough.

And on a separate point, what is this talk of a 20k stadium for cork city?? how is this going to be viable?

[pete]

And on a separate point, what is this talk of a 20k stadium for cork city?? how is this going to be viable?

I think 27k capacity was mentioned.

Secret plan (http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/gwh/lowres/gwhn4l.jpg)

[GavinZac]

And on a separate point, what is this talk of a 20k stadium for cork city?? how is this going to be viable?

European games, high profile friendlies, finals, underage internationals. Oh, and the plan is to be in the CHampions League groups within 15 years. Seems on the reasonable side of ambitious.

augmented by concerts, events and corporate hospitality. At the moment Cork's only concert venue is a meagre 5000 seat capacity, smaller than Turners Cross itself

[osarusan]

European games, high profile friendlies, finals, underage internationals. Oh, and the plan is to be in the CHampions League groups within 15 years. Seems on the reasonable side of ambitious.

When is it due to be completed? And what kind of finals are you talking about - it would be fine for an FAI cup final I think.

Also, it would be great if an Ireland international could be held there, even if it was just a friendly. I remember an Ireland - Wales friendly in Tolka park about 15 years ago, and the proposed new stadium would be a much better venue.


Out of interest, when was the last time an Irish home international was played outside Dublin? I've always been envious of other countries who have quite a few stadiums in different parts of the country where they can, and do, play international games. Cork's new stadium would be a nice option. And Thomond Park in Limerick wouldn't need too much improvement either.

[Dodge]

AFAIK there's only one Irish home international that wasn't played in Dublin. This was in the Mardyke in Cork. I'm not counting the english ones as home before anyone starts

[GavinZac]

When is it due to be completed? And what kind of finals are you talking about - it would be fine for an FAI cup final I think. No date yet but that's because we're busy hiring the guy who's going to be in charge of it. The site is pretty much decided upon, but there are a few options. Can't say much more :)

yeah, FAI Cup finals and Setanta Cup finals and such. Obviously it wouldn't get them every year but in a situation where its a case of 2 non-dublin teams in a final, Cork would be just as handy as Dublin.


Also, it would be great if an Ireland international could be held there, even if it was just a friendly. I remember an Ireland - Wales friendly in Tolka park about 15 years ago, and the proposed new stadium would be a much better venue.Definitely. Situations like Ireland playing a home game in London, as earlier this year, shouldnt happen.


Out of interest, when was the last time an Irish home international was played outside Dublin? Probably that Welsh game; I'd have estimated 25 years ago at least.

[pineapple stu]

AFAIK there's only one Irish home international that wasn't played in Dublin. This was in the Mardyke in Cork. I'm not counting the english ones as home before anyone starts
Hungary (1939) and Spain (1985) both played in Cork - rsssf (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ier-intres.html).

Apparently we played Israel in Tel Aviv the day after the Spain game, so I don't know how serious that one was.

[gspain]

Hungary (1939) and Spain (1985) both played in Cork - rsssf (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ier-intres.html).

Apparently we played Israel in Tel Aviv the day after the Spain game, so I don't know how serious that one was.

The Israel game was earlier in the year. I think Lopez was there. I don't have the date to hand but definitely not the day after Spain.

Spain was a full International, full team etc. I was at the game. It was played a spart of Cork 800 celebrations.

[ifk101]

Euro 2016 Scotland Wales?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7464150.stm

[Cymro]

ifk101, I wouldn't place too much stock on anything David Collins says. This sort of thing is talked about every few months or so but nothing is ever actually done. It's like the argument of moving the Welsh Premier to summer football, and the English pyramid teams back into the Welsh Cup. Basically, they just talk about these things so they can hold it up come 'election' (essentially just the same guys who've been in the job for 25 years getting their renewals rubber-stamped) time as an example of what good they're doing for Welsh football. All this, while they fritter away some £2m per year in expenses.

I know this makes me sound like a whiny c*nt and is rather off topic but I can't resist a good rant at the FAW. Well, you guys know the feeling with your own set of suits, no doubt.

There's more chance of me flying concorde to the moon than of us hosting a championship. We'd need to build or upgrade something like 5 stadia in addition to the two Cardiff ones which we currently have that would meet UEFA criteria. Those stadia have to be 30k capacity minimum as far as I'm aware and even rugby rarely draws those kinds of crowds. Swansea and Newport might get us two viable 30k stadia, Wrexham if they had a half decent team, but they don't and no-one plays rugby up there either. So basically, it's not gonna happen.

[pete]

There's more chance of me flying concorde to the moon than of us hosting a championship. We'd need to build or upgrade something like 5 stadia in addition to the two Cardiff ones which we currently have that would meet UEFA criteria. Those stadia have to be 30k capacity minimum as far as I'm aware and even rugby rarely draws those kinds of crowds. Swansea and Newport might get us two viable 30k stadia, Wrexham if they had a half decent team, but they don't and no-one plays rugby up there either. So basically, it's not gonna happen.

Scotland & Wales is a lot more plausible than Ireland-Scotland.

Wales - Millennium, Cardiff City, Swansea, Wrexham
Scotland - Hampden, Ibrox, Celtic Park, Murrayfield. (Might have to replace one of the Glasgow ones with Dundee or other)

If expanded to 24 teams then a bit more difficult.

[Cymro]

It's not that simple Pete, they have a rule that states you can't have more than 1 stadium per city, with one exception. So one city can have two stadia but all the others must have one. That rules out either one stadium or two in Glasgow and may also rule out one in Cardiff depending on which city gets the two stadia.

[pete]

It's not that simple Pete, they have a rule that states you can't have more than 1 stadium per city, with one exception. So one city can have two stadia but all the others must have one. That rules out either one stadium or two in Glasgow and may also rule out one in Cardiff depending on which city gets the two stadia.

True but whatever way you look at Wales offers Scotland a lot more than Ireland.

[pineapple stu]

If they don't have the grounds, they're as useless as us.

30000 capacity grounds - obviously Millennium Stadium. Where else? Liberty (shudder) Stadium is only 18000 or so, has awful parking facilities and was built only a couple of years ago. The Racecourse is obviously out. Ninian Park is 20000 - too small, as is the replacement. And that's it really.

[Schumi]

I'm surprised the Liberty is only 18,000; it looks bigger. There might be a possibility of upgrading Stradey Park or Rodney Parade as well maybe but I agree that Wales is unlikely to be able to host this either.

Would a Scotland & North of England bid be possible I wonder?

[pineapple stu]

22000 per Wikipedia. It looks big and open, but it's only one tier, which obviously restricts it.