Kilbane to Retire?

[ShamrockIreland]

Nobody said he was great but he deserves respect for being the hardest working player on the pitch. Are we supposed to call our hard working players s**t and go on about how great players with talent like Stephen Ireland are, yet who are lazy as **** and don't seem to care a great deal about representing us?

I also see you didn't reply to my post refuting your claims that he hasn't scored or created many goals.

I said for a player with 86 caps has 7 goals. His only goal against anybody decent came against the Czechs. Goals and assists came against San Marino and that type of team. We could've and should have beaten them about 10-0 at home but killer kept hitting the fullback with his delicate, sublime footballing skills. Over his period as an Irish international his assist and scoring record is awful and maybe he got a few in the last campaign but that means zilch

[jbyrne]

Are You watching a different game to me? He was played as fullback many times and is rubbish there

think i have been or maybe you have him confused with another of our players as i suspect. anyway, if you can list more than one game that he started at full back for us in the last campaign then i will admit i'm wrong. a full back is located near our goal if thats a help

[Drumcondra 69er]

So I'm not entitled to my opinon then and now I haven't watched him play much for Ireland. I've not missed many Ireland games at home in the past 25 years and will post up pictures and tickets from away matches including Italia 90. I think yes he's a good attitude but he is not gifted.

Oh ffs. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, I just disgaree with it. For me anyone that knows anything about the nuances of football would recognise that Kilbane is a useful asset. No one said he was gifted, we all know he's limited but in my opinion those that criticise him are the sort of people who know fcuk all about the game but love a scapegoat and jump on a player as soon as he makes an obvious mistake. It's the easy target syndrome.

You don't have to justify your attendance at games to me, what I said was not 'really watched' which is a totally different thing to attending the game. You said Kilbane was sh1te against San Marino which is nonsense, he was one of the only ones to emerge with any credit from that debacle and was man enough to admit the performance of the team was way below what should be expected after the game (unlike the manager). Your point about goals and assists was bogus to boot, again in the last campaign he was involved in the majority of the few positives we had. We all know he missed that sitter against Spain in 02 and missed a pen but he's had magnifcent performances too (away to France where he was MOTM for me and at home against the Czechs last campaign for example). Many's a time over the years I've watched Kilbane knock a ball past a defender, tear past him and swing a cross in or win a corner. He's not going to beat someone with any fancy stepover's or anything but he's generally been effective. He's also done sterling work covering his left back when required. To write off his career of 80 plus caps the way you have is ludocuris. I'd trust the opinion of a manager such as David Moyes more then those fans that love a scapegoat any day of the week.

[ShamrockIreland]

Would it ever enter your mind that maybe he's a better player than you give him credit for, you obviously detest him as a player and as such are not likely to have a balanced view. Given that the majority on this forum disagree with you, and for towing the party line most posters are quite happy to post poor reveiws / opinions of players so I don't thik thats a valid argument.

It would enter my head if he actually was any good. So you'd prefer him ahead of Andy Reid,Duff or McGeady cos he's got a little bit of heart. Yes I agree hes got good points but not to the point where better players are sitting on the bench while he's the first name on the teamsheet. Anyway He'll probably be there again for another campaign so it doesn't matter what I say.

I detest the famous RK and the infamous SI but I still accept that one was a world class player the other has the potential to be one but not the mentality.

Yes they were both for different reasons bad and disrespected the shirt but there is no doubting RK was World Class if not an unreasonable player. Stephen Ireland is a great propspect but as he did a runner he doesn't seem to care either.

[ShamrockIreland]

think i have been or maybe you have him confused with another of our players as i suspect. anyway, if you can list more than one game that he started at full back for us in the last campaign then i will admit i'm wrong. a full back is located near our goal if thats a help

Well considering i've already told You he played on the wing, in central midfield and as a fullback for us and where did I say STARTED as a defender? Stop being a sarcastic little baby just cos your favourite little player is being criticised.

[ShamrockIreland]

Oh ffs. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, I just disgaree with it. For me anyone that knows anything about the nuances of football would recognise that Kilbane is a useful asset. No one said he was gifted, we all know he's limited but in my opinion those that criticise him are the sort of people who know fcuk all about the game but love a scapegoat and jump on a player as soon as he makes an obvious mistake. It's the easy target syndrome.

No I know plenty about football and understand that Kilbane was picked to do a certain job and sometimes he did it quite well. There have been better players on the bench whilst he gets picked to run into a player,lose the ball and generally be a rubbish winger. My opinion won't change cos you think I know fu(k all about football. Maybe a lot of you should go back a few years and see what Sheedy or Galvin did on the same wing;)

You don't have to justify your attendance at games to me, what I said was not 'really watched' which is a totally different thing to attending the game. You said Kilbane was sh1te against San Marino which is nonsense, he was one of the only ones to emerge with any credit from that debacle and was man enough to admit the performance of the team was way below what should be expected after the game (unlike the manager). Your point about goals and assists was bogus to boot, again in the last campaign he was involved in the majority of the few positives we had. We all know he missed that sitter against Spain in 02 and missed a pen but he's had magnifcent performances too (away to France where he was MOTM for me and at home against the Czechs last campaign for example). Many's a time over the years I've watched Kilbane knock a ball past a defender, tear past him and swing a cross in or win a corner. He's not going to beat someone with any fancy stepover's or anything but he's generally been effective. He's also done sterling work covering his left back when required. To write off his career of 80 plus caps the way you have is ludocuris. I'd trust the opinion of a manager such as David Moyes more then those fans that love a scapegoat any day of the week.

Yes great everyone when mentioning Kilbane uses the Paris game as a great example of how brilliant he is. I was also referring to the home San Marino game never mentioned the away one though a certain lad who's not there scored the winner. I think the fella doesn't deserve the amount of caps given to him and thats that.

As for the scapegoat bit when he runs into fullbacks doesn't get the crosses in and generally doesn't do much in the final third of the pitch eventually you get tired of the same dross which he produces game after game. One in 10 he'll do something different. Who gave you the authority to be such a great footballing man. I'd say you were rallying behind Stan until the final moments even though we played one decent game away to Germany and one not bad at home to the Czechs in that campaign

[jbyrne]

Well considering i've already told You he played on the wing, in central midfield and as a fullback for us and where did I say STARTED as a defender? Stop being a sarcastic little baby just cos your favourite little player is being criticised.

i just cant compete with this sort of debating. you cant even remember what you wrote in your previous posts

[ShamrockIreland]

Legend I doubt it I've never seen a more frustrating player EVER for Ireland. Must he lose the ball and run into the full-back time and again when playing on the wing. He is not a fullback and cannot defend nor position himself which was shown in his last qualifying matches for us. I think at the most he deserved 5 caps. He's awful. I've never disliked an Irish player more and will be glad if he just got on his bike and let a proper defender take his place.

He was played as fullback many times and is rubbish there. As a central midfielder he lost the ball and wasn't so good. As a winger he's useless and Duff,Reid,or McGeady deserve to play there ahead of him.

Where did I say he started loads of games as fullback in the last camapign? He was reverted back to there plenty of times though and in friendlies and is not good in that position. I'll post you game by game ratings if that makes you feel better honey:p

[Greenforever]

He was played as fullback many times and is rubbish there. As a central midfielder he lost the ball and wasn't so good. As a winger he's useless and Duff,Reid,or McGeady deserve to play there ahead of him.

Where did I say he started loads of games as fullback in the last camapign? He was reverted back to there plenty of times though and in friendlies and is not good in that position. I'll post you game by game ratings if that makes you feel better honey:p


You know it's the first sign of madness when you start answering yourself:D

[jmurphyc]

He was played as fullback many times and is rubbish there.

Where did I say he started loads of games as fullback in the last camapign?

The first line there suggests that you thought he played as a full back a lot in the last campaign, seeing as you were continually talking about his performances in that campaign. You might want to think before you write posts if you don't want to be pulled up on them as you do seem to be backtracking on your statements frequently.

By the way, you also might want to edit your last post as there's so swearing allowed on this message board.

[ShamrockIreland]

The first line there suggests that you thought he played as a full back a lot in the last campaign, seeing as you were continually talking about his performances in that campaign. You might want to think before you write posts if you don't want to be pulled up on them as you do seem to be backtracking on your statements frequently.

By the way, you also might want to edit your last post as there's so swearing allowed on this message board.

I know from watching the Irish football team jmurphy where he played over the past few years. He was used in central midfield and on the wing but he was used in the fullback position or dropped in there at times. I was talkiing about Kilbane in general over the past 11 years as an international and I said I don't rate him.

Thanks for the other thing BTW

[tetsujin1979]

He was used in central midfield and on the wing but he was used in the fullback position or dropped in there at times. I was talkiing about Kilbane in general over the past 11 years as an international and I said I don't rate him.
I can only remember him starting at left full against Cyprus at home, and Brazil in February
We have better players in the squad, but Kilbane is a decent squad player. Without him, our midfield would have an average height of about 5"8, and Richard Dunne would be the only threat from set pieces

[jmurphyc]

Without him, our midfield would have an average height of about 5"8, and Richard Dunne would be the only threat from set pieces

I'd include Doyle as a threat from set pieces as well. He's arguably our greatest threat from them.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd include Doyle as a threat from set pieces as well. He's arguably our greatest threat from them.
Fair enough, but when was the last time you saw Doyle as the target from a free kick or throw in? Every single kick out against Germany seemed to go to Kilbane's head, without him, there was no target in midfield.
For me, using Murphy as the target from the throw in that led to Keogh's equaliser against Serbia was one of the signs of improvement already from Trapattoni. Doyle mentioned the work being done on set pieces in an interview during the trip to Portugal as well.

[jmurphyc]

Fair enough, but when was the last time you saw Doyle as the target from a free kick or throw in? Every single kick out against Germany seemed to go to Kilbane's head, without him, there was no target in midfield.
For me, using Murphy as the target from the throw in that led to Keogh's equaliser against Serbia was one of the signs of improvement already from Trapattoni. Doyle mentioned the work being done on set pieces in an interview during the trip to Portugal as well.

A change in our set piece play is much needed and I'm so happy that Trapattoni got to work on it straight away. I've mentioned rewatching the Slovakia away game loads of times but during that game every goal kick and long throw in was aimed for either Kilbane or Doyle. We were incredibly predictable on this front and it's a welcome change. Even getting the basics like goal kicks and as Trapattoni has mentioned, throw ins right is essential. It could be the difference between a near miss and qualification for the finals.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Yes great everyone when mentioning Kilbane uses the Paris game as a great example of how brilliant he is. I was also referring to the home San Marino game never mentioned the away one though a certain lad who's not there scored the winner. I think the fella doesn't deserve the amount of caps given to him and thats that.

As for the scapegoat bit when he runs into fullbacks doesn't get the crosses in and generally doesn't do much in the final third of the pitch eventually you get tired of the same dross which he produces game after game. One in 10 he'll do something different. Who gave you the authority to be such a great footballing man. I'd say you were rallying behind Stan until the final moments even though we played one decent game away to Germany and one not bad at home to the Czechs in that campaign

You're really just making yourself look foolish now, give it up......

Btw we were pretty poor away to Germany and lucky to get away with a 1-0.....

[paul_oshea]

You're really just making yourself look foolish now, give it up......

Btw we were pretty poor away to Germany and lucky to get away with a 1-0.....

Here Lads lay off SI, he has a right to his opinion whether or not you(plural) agree with it or not no need to patronise. I don't rate kilbane as a great footballer either, but I like him and he gives 100%. I think thats what SI was saying also, indirectly maybe.

We were decent against Germany away in fairness, solid at least, though didn't show any real chance of scoring.

[jbyrne]

just watch kilbane in his next game for us and you'll see how many times he's back in his own box clearing the ball with his head. priceless in our curremt squad

[youngirish]

just watch kilbane in his next game for us and you'll see how many times he's back in his own box clearing the ball with his head. priceless in our curremt squad

Great. How about watching how often he gets the ball and either passes it straight to the opposition, knocks it out of play, hoofs it aimlessly forward or runs into a blind alley whereby he finds himself dispossed? Kilbane is one of the main offenders of what's been at the very core of the lack of success that the Irish team has experienced over the past 6 years, an inability to retain possession of the ball and subsequently create openings for the forwards. A midfielder who can't distribute the ball to even a basic degree is a liability in most people's minds.

I respect Kilbane for giving 100% but he's a poor player in any sane person's mind and, as I've said for a long time, Ireland will go nowhere with the likes of Kilbane and O'Shea in the starting 11.

Fortunately I feel that Kilbane is no longer needed as we've better alternatives now in both the wide positions and the central midfield positions he's generally floated around since he achived his first cap. A replacement for O'Shea is unfortunately harder to find at the moment.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Here Lads lay off SI, he has a right to his opinion whether or not you(plural) agree with it or not no need to patronise. I don't rate kilbane as a great footballer either, but I like him and he gives 100%. I think thats what SI was saying also, indirectly maybe.

We were decent against Germany away in fairness, solid at least, though didn't show any real chance of scoring.

I disagree, had we got a point we could have argued it was a good backs to the wall performance but we didn't and to be honest they over ran us, we owed Given big time that night for not getting stuffed.

Great trip though.....!

[jbyrne]

Great. How about watching how often he gets the ball and either passes it straight to the opposition, knocks it out of play, hoofs it aimlessly forward or runs into a blind alley whereby he finds himself dispossed? Kilbane is one of the main offenders of what's been at the very core of the lack of success that the Irish team has experienced over the past 6 years, an inability to retain possession of the ball and subsequently create openings for the forwards. A midfielder who can't distribute the ball to even a basic degree is a liability in most people's minds.

I respect Kilbane for giving 100% but he's a poor player in any sane person's mind and, as I've said for a long time, Ireland will go nowhere with the likes of Kilbane and O'Shea in the starting 11.

Fortunately I feel that Kilbane is no longer needed as we've better alternatives now in both the wide positions and the central midfield positions he's generally floated around since he achived his first cap. A replacement for O'Shea is unfortunately harder to find at the moment.

a lot of your kilbane downpoints are well exaggerated. no one argues that he is a world class player and most would admit he is limited but he has to be judged against what we currently have available. when have we ever had a team of players who could hold onto the ball, easily go past players etc?

[jmurphyc]

I respect Kilbane for giving 100% but he's a poor player in any sane person's mind and, as I've said for a long time, Ireland will go nowhere with the likes of Kilbane and O'Shea in the starting 11.


I agree with your post but in fairness, Kilbane was part of a team that went "somewhere". He played in the World Cup for us and in the qualifying matches. But I agree, he's a limited player and whilst it may be worthwhile to have someone like him in the squad and as back up, he isn't good enough to get in to our starting line up. If the last two games are anything to go by, Trapattoni thinks this too (unless he didn't join up with the squad, but I'm pretty sure he did).

[youngirish]

a lot of your kilbane downpoints are well exaggerated. no one argues that he is a world class player and most would admit he is limited but he has to be judged against what we currently have available. when have we ever had a team of players who could hold onto the ball, easily go past players etc?

I'm not expecting him to be as brilliant on the ball as the similar (in name only) Zidane but only to at least be half decent considering he's an International midfielder. He's possibly the least capable player we have at distributing a ball (I'd argue O'Shea runs him close but I can be more forgiving towards a defender than a midfielder in this regard.)

I reckon his days as a regular starter in an Ireland shirt are numbered anyway. It looks like as backup in central midfield even Whelan and Miller (neither of which I rate highly) will be considered ahead of him. Surely McGeady and Duff will be our preferred choice on the wings and Lawrence can be brought in on the right if we need some height if he's out performing Kilbane in the Premiership which I've no doubt he'll manage to do. S Ireland might also return and provide another option on the right (though he's better in the centre).

As for left back I can see Finnan, S Kelly and O'Shea all being considered for that role ahead of Kilbane (Foley will emerge as another candidate for the right back spot next season).

[youngirish]

I agree with your post but in fairness, Kilbane was part of a that went "somewhere". He played in the World Cup for us and in the qualifying matches.

True jmurphy but I believe we were more capable of getting away with his lack of any semblence of passing ability in that team than the current one considering almost everyone else was decent at distributing the ball (Carr/Finnan, Cunningham, Breen/Staunton, Harte, McAteer, Kinsella, Roy Keane, Robbie Keane, Quinn/Duff).

The current team incorporates a number of players who can't pass the ball to save their life - Kilbane, O'Shea, Carsley and McShane spring to mind while the likes of S Reid and Kelly are only barely competent distributors of the ball at best.

[Sligo Hornet]

I disagree, had we got a point we could have argued it was a good backs to the wall performance but we didn't and to be honest they over ran us, we owed Given big time that night for not getting stuffed.

Great trip though.....!

Agreed....and some of the best "backs to the wall defending" and abilty in the air were evident in the Schlossplatz on the Friday evening!:D

[paul_oshea]

I disagree, had we got a point we could have argued it was a good backs to the wall performance but we didn't and to be honest they over ran us, we owed Given big time that night for not getting stuffed.

Great trip though.....!


ya but their goal was a lucky deflection.....

[jbyrne]

If the last two games are anything to go by, Trapattoni thinks this too (unless he didn't join up with the squad, but I'm pretty sure he did).

he wasnt with the squad he was injured. i would be shocked if miller and/or whelan were ahead of him for ctre mid. god help us if they are

[ShamrockIreland]

he wasnt with the squad he was injured. i would be shocked if miller and/or whelan were ahead of him for ctre mid. god help us if they are

I'd be shocked if any of them are ahead of Carsley,Stephen Reid or Andy Reid. God help us if Kilbane gets the nod he's not much use in the centre we need somebody that can pass to a player with a green jersy on.

[Dr. Ogba]

just watch kilbane in his next game for us and you'll see how many times he's back in his own box clearing the ball with his head. priceless in our curremt squad


and while you're watching, notice how often he's out of position playing at full back. Constantly tucks in giving the winger the freedom of the park.




and I'm saying this as a fan of Kilbane btw...

[jbyrne]

and while you're watching, notice how often he's out of position playing at full back. Constantly tucks in giving the winger the freedom of the park.




and I'm saying this as a fan of Kilbane btw...

and watch out how far hes off his line when in goals which is about as often as he plays full back!

[Razors left peg]

and watch out how far hes off his line when in goals which is about as often as he plays full back!

He played as full back alot at Wigan last season

[Dr. Ogba]

and watch out how far hes off his line when in goals which is about as often as he plays full back!

eh....well its the only position that he'd be of any use to us at the moment. He won't get in the team ahead Duff, McGeady or Hunt on the wing. Shouldn't be allowed anywhere near CM ahead of Carsley, the 2 Reids, Whelan, my granny, Potter, Garvan....the list could go on and on...so really he's only useful as a stand-in fullback because we're pretty bloody desperate in that position!

[Razors left peg]

eh....well its the only position that he'd be of any use to us at the moment. He won't get in the team ahead Duff, McGeady or Hunt on the wing. Shouldn't be allowed anywhere near CM ahead of Carsley, the 2 Reids, Whelan, my granny, Potter, Garvan....the list could go on and on...so really he's only useful as a stand-in fullback because we're pretty bloody desperate in that position!

Your granny must be brilliant if shes ahead of Garvan in that list:D

[jbyrne]

He played as full back alot at Wigan last season

and was singled out as one of the main reasons they stayed up by steve bruce

[Razors left peg]

and was singled out as one of the main reasons they stayed up by steve bruce

I wasnt critisizing him, was just making the point since u said that he doesnt play there regularly. I do think he will start the qualifiers in that position for us

[jbyrne]

eh....well its the only position that he'd be of any use to us at the moment. He won't get in the team ahead Duff, McGeady or Hunt on the wing. Shouldn't be allowed anywhere near CM ahead of Carsley, the 2 Reids, Whelan, my granny, Potter, Garvan....the list could go on and on...so really he's only useful as a stand-in fullback because we're pretty bloody desperate in that position!

whelan, potter (looking to be offloaded by wolves) and garvan (hasnt even 1 cap!) i wont even waste my time commenting on but what on earth has steven reid done in an Irish shirt to be even considered for a place in our ctre mid (provided he's even fit)?

[dr_peepee]

Steven Reid is an Irish player with a physique we are severely lacking in, playing well and regularly in a position we have no depth in, for a club in a league of high standard..... It's a no brainer really. Or have I missed your point???

[Dr. Ogba]

whelan, potter (looking to be offloaded by wolves) and garvan (hasnt even 1 cap!) i wont even waste my time commenting on but what on earth has steven reid done in an Irish shirt to be even considered for a place in our ctre mid (provided he's even fit)?

are you actually saying that you would have Kilbane at CM ahead of these guys? Have you actually seen him play there? and does the fact that Garvan hasn't even 1 cap discount him from ever being picked in the future? I have seen Garvan play a few times now for both our u21s and Ipswich and can tell you right now that he will be a mainstay in Ireland's midfield for a long time to come...

As for Steven Reid, he hasn't even had the chance to play in his favoured CM position for Ireland through injury. He was earmarked by Bobby Robson to play there at the start of the last campaign but got injured after (or during?) the Germany match.
You have strange reasoning...he hasn't done anything at CM in an Ireland shirt because he hasn't had a chance at CM in a Ireland shirt but by your reasoning because he hasn't had a chance there he hasn't earned a chance to play there, even though he plays there for his club (and quite well by all accounts)....

[Dr. Ogba]

Your granny must be brilliant if shes ahead of Garvan in that list:D

ah sure you should see the zimmer-frame trickery...its pretty impressive!

[seanfhear]

whelan, potter (looking to be offloaded by wolves) and garvan (hasnt even 1 cap!) i wont even waste my time commenting on but what on earth has steven reid done in an Irish shirt to be even considered for a place in our ctre mid (provided he's even fit)?
steven reid because of the standard that he plays at appears to have the credentials to play centre midfield for us but as you say he has never played any number of consecutive games or for that matter outstanding performances for us probably through injury.He has been around for a long time at this stage and I cannot see him turning out for ireland often enough to make a significant contribution.I would love to be wrong but it would be interesting to see his actual minutes on the field for ireland in the last six years

[jbyrne]

are you actually saying that you would have Kilbane at CM ahead of these guys? Have you actually seen him play there?

and i'd ask you have you seen whelan and potter play for Ireland recently? hardly international class at all

garvan is unproven and after the build up he's been given here for the last 2 or 3 years he'd need to step up to the plate pretty quick.

how could anyone here tout steven reid for ctre mid for us given we've never seen him play there at international level? i was hoping that his impressive cameos at wc 2002 were a sign of things to come from him but he's been around 7 yrs at this stage and has done nothing in an Irish shirt. how many caps does he even have at this stage?
i think some are wanting him to be the solution of our ctre mid problems rather than believing that he is

[Dr. Ogba]

and i'd ask you have you seen whelan and potter play for Ireland recently? hardly international class at all

Yes I have seen both play quite a bit actually (for both club and country) and while hardly setting the world alight I can categorically state that they would definitely offer more to the team (like, lets say, ability to pass the ball) than Kilbane would at CM. And in Whelan's case its just unfortunate that he had to play on his debut alongside one of the worst/laziest ever midfielders to pull on an Irish shirt (Liam Miller), so that didn't really help his cause.


how could anyone here tout steven reid for ctre mid for us given we've never seen him play there at international level? i was hoping that his impressive cameos at wc 2002 were a sign of things to come from him but he's been around 7 yrs at this stage and has done nothing in an Irish shirt. how many caps does he even have at this stage?
i think some are wanting him to be the solution of our ctre mid problems rather than believing that he is

you seem to be repeating your point here so I'll just repeat my previous point - he hasn't had a run at CM due to injury. the same could be said of Andy Reid a couple of years back then he got his chance at CM and is now considered vital to our qualification chances.
The reason people are touting Steven Reid is due to the fact that he has the attributes (speed, stamina, strength, box-to-box type player) to complement Andy Reid in the centre. And, as we can both agree, we're not exactly flush with talent in this area of the park...

[Qwerty]

Steven Reid has had a few chances to play in CM for Ireland and frankly I don't think he has taken them. If I were manager he really wouldn't be a player I would bank on to be available due to constant injuries so he would only be a bit player for me like he has been for Ireland all his career. It's a pity but that's the reality, he really was an exciting prospect when he came on the scene before the WC in 02 but hasn't realy built on that at all with Ireland.