Kerr -becoming a Sad Figure

[saint morrissey]

Agree generally although his senior record deserves to be questioned. When the chips were down (Russia at home and Swiss away for Euro 2004 when 6 points would have qualified us and France and Swiss at home for WC2006) he failed. You also have to point to our propensity under him to throw away winning positions (Russia again for 04, Swiss away and Israel home and away for 06) as a result of safety first tactics in general as a major minus. His best result was still only a 'moral victory' away to France in a game we should have won.

I was a staunch supporter at the time of his appointment and much as I thought he should go had a degree of sympathy when his contract wasn't renewed but he's behaved with such a degree of bitterness since then it's almost impossible not to disike him now. His glee at the Cyprus debacle when he was commentating at the game was unforgiveable and made little sense when you consider it was only Shay Given that prevented a similar scoreline the previous year when he was in charge. Kerr was in charge for some of the most insipid performances I've witnessed from an Ireland team (twice against the Swiss and against Cyprus despite the win) that were practically as bad as what we witnessed under Staunton.

i think thats a massive lie. i watched the game too and i think his commentary was very dignified. i didnt hear any glee in his voice and its pretty tough not to be critical when youre being paid for your opinion and we've just been stuffed by cyprus. he wasnt nearly as critical as every other irish football fan i know.

[Greenforever]

i think thats a massive lie. i watched the game too and i think his commentary was very dignified. i didnt hear any glee in his voice and its pretty tough not to be critical when youre being paid for your opinion and we've just been stuffed by cyprus. he wasnt nearly as critical as every other irish football fan i know.


I never heard his commentary as I was at the match, but I was talking to him and Trevor Welch after the match in the Step Inn and he was gloating at the fact we were beaten, except Im not a violent person I would have smacked him one,

[jbyrne]

and despite winning four nil macarthys team struggled away from home against them. as did lots of teams over the last few years.

id take a struggling 4-0 away win anyday! id say that was a record home defeat for cyprus over the last decade

[Billsthoughts]

In all honesty do you remember the match?
Ireland were struggling til keane took control of the game.

[Drumcondra 69er]

this has to be one of the most stupid comments ever made on this forum..PR stunt!! well done you muppet.. keane was still our most influential player at that time.. he got injured because he was past his best?? i say 18/19 years get injured all the time - is this because they are also past their best??
is there any way stupid people like yourself with ridiculous comments can be removed from this thread so that others can chat sensibly??

Fantastic standard of debate, worthy of your namesake. Well done. Can't believe the school holidays have rolled around so quickly again. :rolleyes:

Most of that post doesn't even make sense but I'd disagree with your assertion that Keane was our most influential player during that failed campaign. You're entitled to your opinion though.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I never heard his commentary as I was at the match, but I was talking to him and Trevor Welch after the match in the Step Inn and he was gloating at the fact we were beaten, except Im not a violent person I would have smacked him one,

Exactly. To quote him 'The comedy show continues'. Very undignified for me considering the waxy one nil we got the previous year.

[Greenforever]

Exactly. To quote him 'The comedy show continues'. Very undignified for me considering the waxy one nil we got the previous year.



And the 1-1 in Tel Aviv and he goes down to the fans later gloating at a great result, should have let Bobby Sands smack him:D

[jbyrne]

In all honesty do you remember the match?
Ireland were struggling til keane took control of the game.

we werent great but a 4-0 win is impressive away from home no matter who its against. considering what happened in our following two trips there it makes it even more impressive. keane was outstanding that night all the same

[mypost]

we werent great but a 4-0 win is impressive away from home no matter who its against.

A 4-0 win against full timers might look a bit more impressive. Cyprus is one of the games where you can't win. Win and it's "so what?", lose and it's "question time".

[NeilMcD]

Kerrs behaviour since he was let go by the FAI has certainly changed. I know he annoyed a few St Pats fans in Denmark too after they were heavily beaten with his attitude in the bars.

On TV and in print he comes across as bitter. When he just talks about football he is is a top class brain on the game but when discussing personalities or the politics of the game he comes across as bitter and petty and bitchy. It seems that it was his personality that held him back with Ireland and not his football brain.

[EastTerracer]

is there any way stupid people like yourself with ridiculous comments can be removed from this thread so that others can chat sensibly??

No need for this type of comment. Everyone's opinions are valid even if you don't personally agree with them.

The truth is there is still a huge division of opinion amongst Irish fans about RK, Saipan and his return a few years later. Someone else stated above that most fans were in favour of his return under Kerr but it has never been that clearcut. I know a lot of people, myself included, who wanted Keane to come back when Kerr was initially appointed to try and kill the Saipan incident quickly. However the fact that it took Roy another two years to make that decision didn't impress me at the time.

There is no doubting how good a player he was for us (especially in the 94 and 2002 World Cup qualifying campaigns) but there is always a lingering regret for me that he didn't play a hell of a lot more games in the years in between. The games after his return weren't anywhere near his best: of the 6 competitive games he played in 2004 and 2005 we only won 2 games, both against the Faroes. I'd much rather remember him in 1994,2000 and 2001 before it all went wrong.

[Drumcondra 69er]

No need for this type of comment. Everyone's opinions are valid even if you don't personally agree with them.

The truth is there is still a huge division of opinion amongst Irish fans about RK, Saipan and his return a few years later. Someone else stated above that most fans were in favour of his return under Kerr but it has never been that clearcut. I know a lot of people, myself included, who wanted Keane to come back when Kerr was initially appointed to try and kill the Saipan incident quickly. However the fact that it took Roy another two years to make that decision didn't impress me at the time.

There is no doubting how good a player he was for us (especially in the 94 and 2002 World Cup qualifying campaigns) but there is always a lingering regret for me that he didn't play a hell of a lot more games in the years in between. The games after his return weren't anywhere near his best: of the 6 competitive games he played in 2004 and 2005 we only won 2 games, both against the Faroes. I'd much rather remember him in 1994,2000 and 2001 before it all went wrong.

Very well put, pretty much sums up my take on it. Totally agree about the period between 94 and 02 campaigns notwithstanding his cruciate injury although given his mindset during that period it's debatable how many squads he may have shown for in any case.

[Reality Bites]

I see Kerr was at it again in the Times last Saturday, taking swipes at the new regime for first annoucing the team a few days before kick-off, not selecting Andy Reid and not attending cross channel fixtures... he is entitled of course to write what he thinks but it all just smacks of deluded bitterness and makes him look like a small man!

[amaccann]

And Trap duly responded if I recall correctly (according to the Tribune I think); made some comment that if it was Jack Charlton or some "successful" manager he may have paid heed to the comments.

[Calcio Jack]

I see Kerr was at it again in the Times last Saturday, taking swipes at the new regime for first annoucing the team a few days before kick-off, not selecting Andy Reid and not attending cross channel fixtures... he is entitled of course to write what he thinks but it all just smacks of deluded bitterness and makes him look like a small man!

Totally agree with you...sure he's entitled to his opinion but what is pathetic is the petty manner in which he makes what I assume he alone thinks are clever insightful comments, just because he was fixated on knowing the family tree of every player that ever played doesn't mean that he was a good coach , it just meant he had lots of info on the opposition.

His snide comments about naming the team in advance as Trap did and thus leading to discontent in the squad was plain sad...methinks he's almost delusional and it would appear that he's hoping Trap will fail...also his put down of Whelan (who he reminded us he had capped a all levels) as being not up to it summed up his poor judgement... Trap is not perfect but offers a lot more than Kerr ever did... i was glad when Kerr got his chance, then accepted that he wasn't up to it, pity he can't accept the same...

[Duggie]

i think trap naming the team early is better. everyone knows who's playing and it shows he knows what he wants.

[brine3]

He did okay when he played but his effictiveness was way overstated by a media obsessed with him such as in the away game in France when he was overshadowed by far by a limited player like Kilbane in midfield yet every two bit journalist creamed themselves over his performance.

hahahahaha, i was at that match, keane owned the french midfield. his positioning was incredible. kilbane did a lot of running, but keane was running the show.

i remember keane had to go off for about 30 seconds in the first half after his shorts had ripped. nobody knew what had happened or why he'd gone off at the time. the sigh of relief in the away end when he came back onto the pitch could be heard all the way in ireland.

[brine3]

Very well put, pretty much sums up my take on it. Totally agree about the period between 94 and 02 campaigns notwithstanding his cruciate injury although given his mindset during that period it's debatable how many squads he may have shown for in any case.

during the euro 96 qualifiers ireland were relying on old players and outdated tactics and were outplayed by a younger dutch team

during most of the france 98 campaign keane was out with a career threatening injury

i thought he was impressive for the euro 2000 qualifiers. especially when you consider that at the time we had a very weak squad in a very difficult group and were relying on the likes of mark kennedy for creativity. shame keane was suspended for the macedonia match. against turkey away in the playoffs he nearly won it for us.

[paul_oshea]

only for the fact that we lost 1-0 like....

[lionelhutz]

only for the fact that we lost 1-0 like....

We drew 0-0 and went out on away goals IIRC

[Billsthoughts]

In fairness to Kerr the journos are just putting the comments to Trappatoni constantly looking for a response. He gave them one the other day and now they have their story.
The comment he made was that trappatoni should go watch the players in the league to pass final judgement on them. Hardly bitter and twisted and something that will no doubt be used by the journos themselves to explain away Trapps failings should it all go pear shaped between now and the end of the campaign.

[mypost]

And Trappattoni said, that watching the players play the kind of game in England, is different to how they will play for him, which he has a point. After all, playing Millwall and Middlesbrough is different to international games against Italy and Bulgaria.

Yes, the "El Tel" backers will use it on Wednesday night, if we don't win, but this man has won everything going in the game. Kerr has won the LOI Premier Division. Not quite in the same league.

[Calcio Jack]

In fairness to Kerr the journos are just putting the comments to Trappatoni constantly looking for a response. He gave them one the other day and now they have their story.
The comment he made was that trappatoni should go watch the players in the league to pass final judgement on them. Hardly bitter and twisted and something that will no doubt be used by the journos themselves to explain away Trapps failings should it all go pear shaped between now and the end of the campaign.

You appear to be takiing a "selective" view of Kerr's comments and forgetting to remark on his snide comments re discontent in the camp and for me the last line of his column and clincher..."...next the circus moves onto Montenegro..." childish, bitter and pathetic all in one sentence

[Billsthoughts]

And Trappattoni said, that watching the players play the kind of game in England, is different to how they will play for him, which he has a point. After all, playing Millwall and Middlesbrough is different to international games against Italy and Bulgaria.

Yes, the "El Tel" backers will use it on Wednesday night, if we don't win, but this man has won everything going in the game. Kerr has won the LOI Premier Division. Not quite in the same league.

Im not saying Kerr was right or wrong, but I am saying that it wasnt an unreasonable point to make.



You appear to be takiing a "selective" view of Kerr's comments and forgetting to remark on his snide comments re discontent in the camp and for me the last line of his column and clincher..."...next the circus moves onto Montenegro..." childish, bitter and pathetic all in one sentence

I would say the circus comment was directed at the media as opposed to Trappatoni. I had forgotten the discontent in camp to be honest and I am not sure whne he said it or who he was reffering to. I would totally disagree with him saying things like that alrite. but think that he is being used a whipping boy on slow news days

[cartman]

We drew 0-0 and went out on away goals IIRC

good spot hutz!!!it was 0-0..
some awful patheic "ireland" fans on here who dont even know the scorelines in some of our biggest games!!!
yet they think they rememberexactly how well a guy played that same night!!! muppets..:rolleyes:

[Reality Bites]

I haven't figured out whether its Brave or Stupid - Kerr getting digs in at Trappatoni, In Hurling it would be the equivalent of Davy Fitzgerald writing snide remarks about Brian Cody - It just looks riduculous!

[seanfhear]

I haven't figured out whether its Brave or Stupid - Kerr getting digs in at Trappatoni, In Hurling it would be the equivalent of Davy Fitzgerald writing snide remarks about Brian Cody - It just looks riduculous!
very good analogy

[irishultra]

I have to say though Kerr did alright with us, just made some poor judgement. He has a right to comment but I feel he's just **** stirring.

[Calcio Jack]

Im not saying Kerr was right or wrong, but I am saying that it wasnt an unreasonable point to make.




I would say the circus comment was directed at the media as opposed to Trappatoni. I had forgotten the discontent in camp to be honest and I am not sure whne he said it or who he was reffering to. I would totally disagree with him saying things like that alrite. but think that he is being used a whipping boy on slow news days


Not an interputation many IMO would take from it..however if it's correct then kinda bizarre on the basis that Kerr is himself a member of said circus when he writes for the IT

[OwlsFan]

Against turkey away in the playoffs Keane nearly won it for us.

I thought Robbie was suspended for that game.

Can't remember how the Turkey peno came about in the home game after we went ahead through Robbie.

[elroy]

I thought Robbie was suspended for that game.

Can't remember how the Turkey peno came about in the home game after we went ahead through Robbie.

Think it was a carsley hand ball if im correct.

[geysir]

I thought Robbie was suspended for that game.

Can't remember how the Turkey peno came about in the home game after we went ahead through Robbie.
Carsley on his backside, the ball was struck into his hand,
or did he move his hand towards the ball?

Robbie was suspended for the 2nd leg but Roy returned.
I don't remember Roy nearly winning it for us in the 2nd leg.

[elroy]

Carsley on his backside, the ball was struck into his hand,
or did he move his hand towards the ball?

Robbie was suspended for the 2nd leg but Roy returned.
I don't remember Roy nearly winning it for us in the 2nd leg.

That away game wasnt on tv either, RTE and the Turkish crew couldnt reach an agreement, had to do with listening to the radio but dont remember us ever having a chance of note. Think Cascarino was assaulted coming off the pitch too.

[jbyrne]

That away game wasnt on tv either, RTE and the Turkish crew couldnt reach an agreement, had to do with listening to the radio but dont remember us ever having a chance of note. Think Cascarino was assaulted coming off the pitch too.

most pubs had it on a pirated satallite signal from turkish star tv. think they wanted £2m from rte for the rights!

[Billsthoughts]

Not an interputation many IMO would take from it..however if it's correct then kinda bizarre on the basis that Kerr is himself a member of said circus when he writes for the IT

I disagree.

Think of it from his point of view. He writes an article which contains two criticisms of the current manager which personally I had read and heard elsewhere. 1) that the Irish manager should be going to watch his players play. 2) that Andy Reid should be in the team. Both of these are debateable either way. This is then slanted by the media as “Kerr has a go at Trapp”. This is then put to Trapp as “previous manager Brian Kerr has had a go at you again” so Trapp responds(brilliantly imo.) In this context the last line “the circus continues” ,to me at least is a nod to the way the media are behaving.

[Calcio Jack]

I disagree.

Think of it from his point of view. He writes an article which contains two criticisms of the current manager which personally I had read and heard elsewhere. 1) that the Irish manager should be going to watch his players play. 2) that Andy Reid should be in the team. Both of these are debateable either way. This is then slanted by the media as “Kerr has a go at Trapp”. This is then put to Trapp as “previous manager Brian Kerr has had a go at you again” so Trapp responds(brilliantly imo.) In this context the last line “the circus continues” ,to me at least is a nod to the way the media are behaving.


There was more than 2 criticisms in the article...but what I think is the main issue is the 'tone' of how he writes and that of course is open to interputation and is a subjective call.... however IMO it's not just in last Sats article but over a long period (since his tenure as manager ended) Kerr IMO comes accross as at best a smart alec type but more increasingly as a bitter jealous whinger who can't accept he had his shot at the job and in most peoples eyes failed.... as I say was glad he got the job but sad for him and his family etc that he is now making a fool of himself in such a public manner...and for me any respect I had for him is draining away every time I read his bitter vitriol.

[Drumcondra 69er]

hahahahaha, i was at that match, keane owned the french midfield. his positioning was incredible. kilbane did a lot of running, but keane was running the show.

i remember keane had to go off for about 30 seconds in the first half after his shorts had ripped. nobody knew what had happened or why he'd gone off at the time. the sigh of relief in the away end when he came back onto the pitch could be heard all the way in ireland.

Surprised to see this dragegd up again after 3 months. I was at the game as well mate and I'd suggest you're talking ******. It's generally accepted that Kilbane outshone Keane that night and only the most blinkered 'Keano' supporters would argue otherwise.

'Sigh of relief heard all the way in Ireland'? Just how much wine had you consumed? :rolleyes:

As for his record between 94 and 02 campaign perhaps if he hadn't have given himself a career threatening injury by stupidly kicking someone up in the air because he was annoyed at man u losing a game then he may have played in more then one World Cup. As it was his attitude for the preceeding years utterly stank.

[Drumcondra 69er]

during the euro 96 qualifiers ireland were relying on old players and outdated tactics and were outplayed by a younger dutch team

during most of the france 98 campaign keane was out with a career threatening injury

i thought he was impressive for the euro 2000 qualifiers. especially when you consider that at the time we had a very weak squad in a very difficult group and were relying on the likes of mark kennedy for creativity. shame keane was suspended for the macedonia match. against turkey away in the playoffs he nearly won it for us.

Did the tactics suddenly become outdated and the players age more then normal halfway through the 96 campaign? Because we started like a train before the wheels came off.

Also, his injury came halfway through the 98 campaign and he was regulalry missing squads at that stage in any case. But we're going off topic here again and only rehashing old debates....

[OwlsFan]

Carsley on his backside, the ball was struck into his hand,
or did he move his hand towards the ball?.

Can't remember it - must be that we blank horrific events out of our minds. The difference between qualifying and not :mad: Mick was never a lucky manager.


Robbie was suspended for the 2nd leg but Roy returned. I don't remember Roy nearly winning it for us in the 2nd leg.

I know. I was just trying to remind the Roy Keane worshipping Brine that there are/were two Keanes.

[mypost]

I disagree.

I know that his only backers these days are Pats fans, but Trap doesn't have to watch players play. How many Irish managers went out to watch Stapleton, Brady, Harte, Bonner, McGeady play, when not at English clubs? He can only watch one player a weekend most weekends, playing football and formations totally against his ideas, and in any case, he has people doing that for him, people who know what they're doing.

As for Andy Reid, he's not that important. He's had good games for us, he's also had some howlers, you don't know which one you're going to get. As long as the boss gets results, (and he's won everything going), I'll back him.

[irishfan86]

As for Andy Reid, he's not that important. He's had good games for us, he's also had some howlers, you don't know which one you're going to get.

Can you remind me of some of his "howlers?" Andy Reid has been one of Ireland's most consistent performers when he has been fit to play in the past couple of campaigns.

[Billsthoughts]

I know that his only backers these days are Pats fans, but Trap doesn't have to watch players play. How many Irish managers went out to watch Stapleton, Brady, Harte, Bonner, McGeady play, when not at English clubs? He can only watch one player a weekend most weekends, playing football and formations totally against his ideas, and in any case, he has people doing that for him, people who know what they're doing.

As for Andy Reid, he's not that important. He's had good games for us, he's also had some howlers, you don't know which one you're going to get. As long as the boss gets results, (and he's won everything going), I'll back him.

I meant I disagree in calcio jacks interpretation of the kerr " circus continues" line.
I wouldnt class mysef as a pats fan either so your wrong on that score.
I didnt say kerr was right altho I totally disagree with anyone that would try and tell me there is no logic to what he said.

I think you have the nub of it when it comes to trappatoni. hes won everything going , so Im prepared to give him the benefit of doubt on any decision he makes.

[only1kilb]

I know that his only backers these days are Pats fans, but Trap doesn't have to watch players play. How many Irish managers went out to watch Stapleton, Brady, Harte, Bonner, McGeady play, when not at English clubs? He can only watch one player a weekend most weekends, playing football and formations totally against his ideas, and in any case, he has people doing that for him, people who know what they're doing.

As for Andy Reid, he's not that important. He's had good games for us, he's also had some howlers, you don't know which one you're going to get. As long as the boss gets results, (and he's won everything going), I'll back him.

Andy Reid is very important for us. Astounds me that we bring on players like Miller and Keogh ahead of him and must be the same for Reid to see it. Has been excellent for Sunderland and would do a far better job on the wing than mcgeady or hunt.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Can't remember it - must be that we blank horrific events out of our minds. The difference between qualifying and not :mad: Mick was never a lucky manager.


He was on the ground and off balance, the ball came up and struck his hand, his momentum meant that his hand had gone up. It was very harsh, would never have been given against one of the traditional football powers.

Carsley was very unfairly pilliored for it by certain elements of the media and embarrassingly also by small elements of the support (possibly for the sin of not being his Corkness....;))

[Supreme feet]

I think the reason Carsley was pilloried in 99 was because McPhail was in flying form for Leeds at the time, and nobody could figure out why Carsley - who was anonymous against Croatia, Malta and Macedonia in the previous games - was picked ahead of him. Kinsella was badly missed in that game (he was suspended). All the journos were championing McPhail at the time, whether rightly or wrongly - it wasn't a pro-Keane agenda. It's only since Keane, Holland and Kinsella retired that Carsley has been appreciated by fans and media.

[Reality Bites]

It was mentioned on Newstalk last night - Paul Macgrath was certainly dismissive of Brian Kerrs comments and so too were the presenters, Kerr is an embarassment!

[Macy]

Kerr on Lunchtime on Newstalk now (might be on the best of lunchtime podcast later). Seems perfectly reasonable in what he is saying to me on it, explaining some of his comments.

btw There's no greater endorsement than Off The Ball presenters dismissing you.

[Billsthoughts]

Kerr on Lunchtime on Newstalk now (might be on the best of lunchtime podcast later). Seems perfectly reasonable in what he is saying to me on it, explaining some of his comments.

btw There's no greater endorsement than Off The Ball presenters dismissing you.

You love pats!

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Kerr's analysis in today's Times was good and magnanimous.

[Fergie's Son]

Surprised to see this dragegd up again after 3 months. I was at the game as well mate and I'd suggest you're talking ******. It's generally accepted that Kilbane outshone Keane that night and only the most blinkered 'Keano' supporters would argue otherwise.

.

I was at that match and had great seats and while Kilbane did a lot of the running it was Keane who dictated the midfield. Indeed, Keane basically was directing Kilbane where to go. Sorry but I am no fan of Keane but he was great that night.