Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Saturday, 24th May 2008 - Friendly

[paul_oshea]

PMS Kingdom?

[Supreme feet]

Maybe we will see those days again but I'm not very optimistic. I think along with the changes in society the status of international soccer has also changed. I honestly don't think it means as much to the players as it used to. And while that situation persists there won't be the same relationship between the team and the fans. It might be a bit misty eyed, but in the late 80's and 90's there was a sense that the team and the fans were 2 halves of the same whole. I don't think we can get that back as the players attitudes have changed and the fans attitudes have changed. Maybe it was just a more innocent time back then and now we're all that bit more cynical. The evolution of football as a product and fans as consumers may have a lot to do with this.


I take your point about the late 80s-early 90s being more innocent, and I do believe that marketing has irrevocably changed the relationship between sport and its followers, but even in those glory days, there was a certain amount of grumbling done by people in Irish football about the 'new' football supporters coming to Lansdowne, and a lot of misty-eyed reminiscence for the 'good old days' of Dalymount! Contempt for spoiled 'sunshine' supporters isn't a new concept in Irish football. However, the atmosphere generated at home during the 2002 qualifiers, and for the away game in Paris in '04, shows that there is life in the Irish supporter yet, despite all of us being spoiled into greed-ridden decadence by the Celtic Tiger!

Even Munster fans get criticised for being fair-weather supporters and event junkies, but whatever about the psychology; look at the colour and noise they bring to the big occasions, and how the team is inspired by it. That's all that counts.

[Kingdom]

PMS Kingdom?

What does that mean Paul>? :o

Post-Muppet-Staunton?

[irishultra]

Anyone who says International football means nothing to our players, please take a look at Andy Keogh's celebration on Saturday. It meant the world to him.

[Jinxy]

Am I missing something here or are people taking turns to tell me I'm full of sh*t and then agreeing with me?:confused: I said the atmosphere can only be generated by the fans not the stadium, I said international football doesn't mean as much to players anymore (I should have said senior players), and people cite the example of lads who've only just broken into the team being enthusiastic (give them another year and see what their attitude is then). Hunt will give 110%, as will Doyle & Long and these lads who have only relatively recently made it into the bigtime. They've had to work their b*ll*cks off to get where they are, so they appreciate it more. They are not the rule however, they are the exception. And please spare me the example of Munster and the Red Army. They have a core group of 10,000 or so actual fans (by this I mean people that actually have a bulls notion what is going on during a game). The amount of people I know who went over to Cardiff that wouldn't know a ruck from a haystack was staggering. They went for the ****-up and to say they were there. Zero interest in rugby. These are the clowns that are "diluting" the atmosphere in Croker during the soccer internationals. We all know the type.

[Jinxy]

I can guarantee you this much. There are a lot of people out there who consider themselves munster rugby supporters and they have been to 2 games. The final in 2006 and the final in 2008. I wouldn't be surprised if they think Munster play their home games in Cardiff.

[Kingdom]

Jinkxy might you have any suggestions on what the solutions are to our atmospheric problems?

[Jinxy]

Jinkxy might you have any suggestions on what the solutions are to our atmospheric problems?

A constant mexican wave for the full 90 minutes. People love a good mexican wave.:D

[Razors left peg]

For me the biggest problem with the atmostphere is the distance from the pitch. My seats are in the Davin stand and when the ball is up the far side of the pitch it seems miles away so its hard to feel part of it

[Ordinary Fan]

I can't wait to get out of Croker, the pitch is to big and we are to far away from the action. The football has'nt helped, all you need is a bit of goal-mouth action to get people going.

[craig7042]

Anyone who says International football means nothing to our players, please take a look at Andy Keogh's celebration on Saturday. It meant the world to him.

You're right. It was a great celebration considering they arent supposed to care.

Just wait and see if we get some decent results the whole mood would change very quickly. The atmosphere in the ground..the attitude of the press...the fans...

It wouldnt take too much. There is still a love for the team out there.

[irishultra]

He kissed the badge. It was a class moment. I didn't see it at the match(Hill 16), but when I got home it made me feel good.

[bholg]

Jinkxy might you have any suggestions on what the solutions are to our atmospheric problems?

I do... put a lid on the stadium and pump in nitrous oxide.

great atmosphere - presmably poor football.

well 1 out of 2 is better than 0 out of 2

Terrible game.... I thought Richard Dunne was one of the worst on the park. Gave the ball straight to them every time.

On atmospheres: Landsdown hasnt been all that great in recent years

[Wolfie]

On atmospheres: Landsdown hasnt been all that great in recent years

The atmosphere at Lansdowne was in decline since the early 90's.

The atmosphere at the qualifiers for Italia 90 (in '89) were vocal and intense and drove the players on. I recall continuous chants and singing a full hour before the Hungary game in '89. Once we qualified for a World Cup it wasn't long before the ignorami were in attendance throughout the West Stand.

When the bucket seats were added and we lost the terraces (FAI had no option on this one as all grounds had to be all-seater unless you got a dispensation) it destroyed the atmosphere completely. That communal and almost tribal vibe that is unique to a terrace was lost.

[Irish_Praha]

For those that regularly go to home games when was the last game that had a truly electrifying atmosphere? I wasn't there but would I be right in saying against Holland in 2001? I remember Van Gaal coming up with all sorts of excuses after the game and saying it was so loud that he couldn't get his instructions across to the players. Has there been any game since then with such an atmosphere? I can't believe that is almost 7 years ago now. I nearly bit my fingers off (the nails were gone before half-time) when listening to it on the radio.

[centre mid]

Its been a long time since there has been any atmosphere at Ireland home games, a bell ringing apart. Portugal at home the same year is the last one I can remember. The France game 05' had a nervous tension to it but it disipated after henry scored.

Croke park has been awful so far in terms of atmosphere.

[Red&White Rover]

I've been going to Ireland games since 200 and without doubt Holland 2001 was the greatest game i've been at. Unbelievable. The atmosphere before the French game a few years back was electric too. Unfortunately not many apart from them two...


Croke Park really takes the biscuit though. Full of f*cking daytrippers. Am I one of the few who now refuses to take part in Mexican waves especially when we're losing?

I hate Mexican waves.

[youngirish]

I've been going to Ireland games since 200 and without doubt Holland 2001 was the greatest game i've been at. Unbelievable. The atmosphere before the French game a few years back was electric too. Unfortunately not many apart from them two...


Croke Park really takes the biscuit though. Full of f*cking daytrippers. Am I one of the few who now refuses to take part in Mexican waves especially when we're losing?

I hate Mexican waves.


What's the story with this whole my sh*te smells sweeter than those people who participate in a Mexican wave on this site? I've noticed it a number of times. Seems a bit snobbish tbh in my opinion for a working class man's sport like football.

Probably more suited to a tennis or rugby match.

I'll be in London tonight. I'm going to try to start one to p*ss you all off particularly if we are getting hammered.

[shakermaker1982]

If you want atmosphere at an Irish game then you have to go to the away games I'm afraid. Croke Park is like a morgue when the football is on. I've heard people behind me say "who does Duff play for nowadays?". Clearly we have a lot of people going to the games who aren't football fans - consequently the atmosphere suffers.

Maybe it is because we have had nothing to play for? Maybe it is because the players have not put in an inspired performance to raise the roof and blood pressure? Even still it's sad that a 70,000 crowd can hardly raise a whisper. If you stand up your told to sit down, if you shout too loudly your looked upon as a lunatic. Sterile and stale. Something needs to be done but solutions are not easy to come by. We have one song and when that is repeated 15 times we start the mexican wave!

[Kingdom]

What's the story with this whole my sh*te smells sweeter than those people who participate in a Mexican wave on this site? I've noticed it a number of times. Seems a bit snobbish tbh in my opinion for a working class man's sport like football.

Probably more suited to a tennis or rugby match.

I'll be in London tonight. I'm going to try to start one to p*ss you all off particularly if we are getting hammered.

Your post comes across as stupid.

[joe_barry80]

I've noticed that it is a bit dead in Croker but the atmosphere away from home is unbelievable.

I was watching the England match last night and heard a few times throughout the game they were singing their national anthem. Why can't we do that? It gets everyones hair on their neck up and the start of the game. Why not try it throughout the match it will definitely motivate the lads. I'm sure it would even get the prawn sandwich eaters of their bums.

[youngirish]

Your post comes across as stupid.

Coming from a man who on another forum earlier thought Jim Broadbent was only in Indiana Jones because Lucas and Spielberg had been fans of Only Fools and Horses and decided to give a struggling actor from an episode 25 years ago a cameo. Are you for real?

If that's an indication of your high and mighty intelligence I'll take your put down as a compliment thanks very much.

[irishultra]

I've noticed that it is a bit dead in Croker but the atmosphere away from home is unbelievable.

I was watching the England match last night and heard a few times throughout the game they were singing their national anthem. Why can't we do that? It gets everyones hair on their neck up and the start of the game. Why not try it throughout the match it will definitely motivate the lads. I'm sure it would even get the prawn sandwich eaters of their bums.

Ah now in fairness, England has hardly the atmosphere we want to emulate. They have the same problem as us.

I do agree about the anthem though. That would be class. But could you imagine 'west brits' starting Amhran na bhfiann mid match in Croker?

[lionelhutz]

I've noticed that it is a bit dead in Croker but the atmosphere away from home is unbelievable.

I was watching the England match last night and heard a few times throughout the game they were singing their national anthem. Why can't we do that? It gets everyones hair on their neck up and the start of the game. Why not try it throughout the match it will definitely motivate the lads. I'm sure it would even get the prawn sandwich eaters of their bums.

I agree totally. Every game I've been to at Croke Park has been dire in terms of atmosphere. I missed the home Slovakia game which I heard had a great atmosphere - don't think it's a coincidence that this was our best performance at Croke Park. But was it the crowd that got the players going or vice versa? It's usually a bit of both i suppose.

The national anthem would be a more than welcome addition to "stand up the boys in green" and simply "Ireland". At least we'd have three chants/songs then!

[Newryrep]

Its like Groundhog Day here after everygame regarding the atsmosphere, everybody knows the problems, everybody knows part of the solution but realistically there is sweet FA we can do about it other than bombard the FAI wrt a singing section for LR. - Croke Park is beyond help, there is more atsmosphere on Mars

Saturday was particularily bad especially those leaving early and especially it being Traps 1st game. My own excuse - miscalulated the amount of alcohol I could consume, hot weather etc and was slightly inebriated during the game.

[jmurphyc]

What's the story with this whole my sh*te smells sweeter than those people who participate in a Mexican wave on this site? I've noticed it a number of times. Seems a bit snobbish tbh in my opinion for a working class man's sport like football.

Probably more suited to a tennis or rugby match.

I'll be in London tonight. I'm going to try to start one to p*ss you all off particularly if we are getting hammered.

We definitely do need to do something about the atmosphere, but mexican waves are not the answer. I can begrudgingly accept them in a friendly but at any point during a qualifier they are not helpful at all. Even if you are standing, people jumping up and waving their hands prevents you from seeing what is happening on the pitch, and IMO it does affect the players, particularly when people start booing when the mexican wave isn't continued on around the whole stadium. When the booing begins the players often seem to be bewildered as to what is going on and lose concentration, probably because they're wondering why half the stadium is booing.

If there were more people willing to think up of new songs there would be very little demand for a mexican wave. You don't see mexican waves at the Bernabau, the Nou Camp, the San Siro or Anfield, along with other stadiums with top atmospheres. IMO all they are is a tacky Americanisation of our sports.

Without meaning to insult you, you have admitted in the past to not really going to Ireland games regularly. Now, if I stayed at home to watch the matches then I would have no real understanding of what is wrong with a mexican wave at the game. Perhaps once you start going to games you'll see why they're so unwelcome.

[Wolfie]

The dreaded mexican wave is not a new phenonmenon lads - its been ****ing people off at Ireland games for at least 20 years!!!!

[amaccann]

Simple problem with people singing the national anthem is that most people's grasp of Irish is abysmal & you'd get coordinated mumbling across the stands as the crowd bluffed their way through the lines ;)

[youngirish]

Without meaning to insult you, you have admitted in the past to not really going to Ireland games regularly. Now, if I stayed at home to watch the matches then I would have no real understanding of what is wrong with a mexican wave at the game. Perhaps once you start going to games you'll see why they're so unwelcome.
The usual ill informed tripe from jmurphy. Did you just make the above assumption up that I've no history of going to games or did it have some actual basis in reality? Maybe you seen an old post and removed that most important word recently from it when referring to my attendance at Ireland matches.

In the past I've gone to many Ireland games. I was at all the home qualfiiers for both the 1990 and 1994 wc qualfiers when you were probably at home playing with your power rangers. For the past 8 years I've mostly lived and worked abroad so it's a tad difficult for me to go to every Ireland game considering I work 5 days a week in various locations far and wide. Anyway I've been at plenty of other football games besides Ireland ones on three continents so I'll go with the smart money here and state I don't really have too much to learn from yourself in this repect (here's a snippet of information for you they actually use Mexican waves at other football matches in other countries also).

Thanks for the education. How did I get this far through life without your titbits of knowledge?

[youngirish]

The dreaded mexican wave is not a new phenonmenon lads - its been ****ing people off at Ireland games for at least 20 years!!!!

Exactly they were present regularly at Lansdowne in the old Charlton days when probably most of the heads giving out about them on here only followed GAA instead.

[jmurphyc]

The usual ill informed tripe from jmurphy. Did you just make the above assumption up that I've no history of going to games or did it have some actual basis in reality? Maybe you seen an old post and removed that most important word recently from the above.

In the past I've gone to many Ireland games. I was at all the home qualfiiers for both the 1990 and 1994 wc qualfiers when you were probably at home playing with your power rangers. For the past 8 years I've mostly lived and worked abroad so it's a tad difficult for me to go to every Ireland game considering I work 5 days a week in various locations far and wide. Anyway I've been at plenty of other football games besides Ireland ones on three continents so I'll go with the smart money here and state I don't really have too much to learn from yourself in this repect (here's a snippet of information for you they actually use Mexican waves at other football matches also). A final tip of advice if you still think JOS is a good player you might be better off saving your own money and not bothering to go to the matches as you might get a better understanding of the game from watching it on tv. Thanks for the education. How did I get this far through life without your titbits of knowledge Dungeon Master?

As I said, I didn't mean to insult you. However, you seem to have absolutely no problem insulting people left, right and centre. I assumed that you hadn't been to games judging by your recent posts. It was my mistake then. However, you haven't given one reason why mexican waves add to the atmosphere. As I said, you don't see them popping up in extremely crucial games where there is a proper atmosphere, and as I also said, they are extremely distracting to not only the players but also the crowd. Doesn't it make you wonder why the only people starting them at Croke Park are a bunch of ten year olds?

As for your understanding of football, I seem to remember you saying that if we want to show our disdain for Staunton's management we should simply not go to the games. No real fan would do that as the team is there to be supported but then again, I guess it's easy for you to say that when clearly you can't be bothered going to games when the team's fortunes start to take a dip. Do the words "fair weather" mean anything to you?

As for me saying JOS is a good player, I think he is a decent player with absolutely no ambition. If you think the guy was always completely talentless then why did he end up at Man Utd? Anyway, his talent has all but disappeared. Do you really need me to drag up my recent posts where I have very harshly criticised him? Whilst not knowing the guy, I think that in terms of football he's a complete waster who is living in his comfort zone collecting medals for doing very, very little. I also see you have begun to mention that McGeady should play recently - obviously very subtlely changing your tune - after saying that he'll probably end up in the lower leagues of Scottish football a few months ago.

I'm sure that you've watched far more football than me - but then again you are obviously a lot older - but for someone who does watch a lot you talk plenty of cr*p.

[youngirish]

As for your understanding of football, I seem to remember you saying that if we want to show our disdain for Staunton's management we should simply not go to the games. No real fan would do that as the team is there to be supported but then again, I guess it's easy for you to say that when clearly you can't be bothered going to games when the team's fortunes start to take a dip. Do the words "fair weather" mean anything to you?


Exactly and I was proved right as per usual. One of the main reasons that Delaney and his cohorts were forced to remove Stan and pay him off is because many of the fans didn't bother to show up for a sold out Croke Park for his last match in charge and those who did booed him at the final whistle. If you don't think the FAI's main concern when getting rid of him was how much money they'd lose on ticket sales in the WC2010 campaign then it's naive. If everybody still bought the tickets and attended all the matches we'd still have Stan in charge irrespective of how poor our results had become. Almost everything in Ireland and consequently in the FAI boils down to money at the end of the day.

This ridiculous attitude of claiming to be a good fan by continuing to hand the FAI money and showing up to support the team no matter how poorly the FAI treats it's supporters (in terms of managers or facilities) or no matter how rubbish the team is performing is flawed logic at best and pure insanity at worst. I could easily claim it makes you the antithesis of a good fan because a good fan cares about the team and wants to do something (anything) to help improve it's fortunes. We'd still have Stan in charge and be sinking ever lower into the abyss if everyone was like you in the country. How can that be equivalent to being a good supporter. Because somebody else told you it did? Wake up man.

I never mentioned anything about McGeady playing in the lower leagues. I've stated for many a year now on here that he's not the top class player the majority on here have at least at one time or another believed him to be and in this respect I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. Anthony Stokes looked like Maradona in Scotland ffs. He's good enough for an average Premiership team at present. No more. No less. I've never stated him to be anything other than that.

Let's just agree he's better and more talented than John O'Shea should we?

[jmurphyc]

Exactly and I was proved right as per usual. One of the main reasons that Delaney and his cohorts were forced to remove Stan and pay him off is because many of the fans didn't bother to show up for a sold out Croke Park for his last match in charge and those who did booed him at the final whistle. If you don't think the FAI's main concern when getting rid of him was how much money they'd lose on ticket sales in the WC2010 campaign then your are as naive as you are young. If everybody still bought the tickets and attended all the matches we'd still have Stan in charge irrespective of how poor our results had become. Almost everything in Ireland and consequently in the FAI boils down to money at the end of the day.

This ridiculous attitude of claiming to be a good fan by continuing to hand the FAI money and showing up to support the team no matter how poorly the FAI treats it's supporters (in terms of managers or facilities) or no matter how rubbish the team is performing is flawed logic at best and pure insanity at worst. I could easily claim it makes you the antithesis of a good fan because a good fan cares about the team and wants to do something (anything) to help improve it's fortunes. We'd still have Stan in charge and be sinking ever lower into the abyss if everyone was like you in the country. How can that be equivalent to being a good supporter. Because somebody else told you it did? Wake up man.

We'll have to disagree on what makes a good fan. I'm not trying to make out that I'm any better than you. Clearly we just have different interpretations of how to stage a protest. I think it can be done in tandem with going to the game, but in the sense that most of the people who went to Croke Park probably didn't know who Steve Staunton was, let alone John Delaney, you're probably right that it was the only realistic way of Delaney ousting Staunton seeing as half of the crowd these days - perhaps it was always like that (?) - is totally apathetic. However, I'm perfectly capable of making up my own mind and don't need to be swayed by any media agenda or the masses in what I do.


I never mentioned anything about McGeady playing in the lower leagues. I've stated for many a year now on here that he's not the top class player the majority on here have at least at one time or another believed him to be and in this respect I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. Anthony Stokes looked like Maradona in Scotland ffs. He's good enough for an average Premiership team at present. No more. No less. I've never stated him to be anything other than that.

Let's just agree he's better and more talented than John O'Shea should we?

I personally agree with you to a large extent of McGeady. I think he can turn out to be good, but I worry whether he will for us and I don't think he's going to turn out to be a world class player. As for John O'Shea whenever I defend him I do it in the context of what we have. Whilst I despise his attitude I don't think people can make outlandish comments like him never wearing the shirt again. As much as I'd like to see this happen we have very few options and he is arguably our best one.

[youngirish]

I personally agree with you to a large extent of McGeady. I think he can turn out to be good, but I worry whether he will for us and I don't think he's going to turn out to be a world class player. As for John O'Shea whenever I defend him I do it in the context of what we have. Whilst I despise his attitude I don't think people can make outlandish comments like him never wearing the shirt again. As much as I'd like to see this happen we have very few options and he is arguably our best one.
Fair enough at least we've found some common ground. What I will say on McGeady to be fair to him and others on these forums is that he has improved considerably over the past 12 months more than I would have previously thought. If he continues to improve then he could become that top class player that many on here have already claimed him to be but at present I think he'd struggle to stand out in a more competitive league whether it be Italy, Spain or England.

For Ireland I don't think he'll be spectacular in the short term but hopefully should be more consistent and positive than when playing under Stan when he was seldom anything other than dreadful.

[passinginterest]

What's the story with this whole my sh*te smells sweeter than those people who participate in a Mexican wave on this site? I've noticed it a number of times. Seems a bit snobbish tbh in my opinion for a working class man's sport like football.

Probably more suited to a tennis or rugby match.

I'll be in London tonight. I'm going to try to start one to p*ss you all off particularly if we are getting hammered.

Well done! Although we're winning :D

[Wolfie]

Well done! Although we're winning :D

When I saw that wave, I couldn't help wondering if youngirish was in the thick of it :D

[Kingdom]

Coming from a man who on another forum earlier thought Jim Broadbent was only in Indiana Jones because Lucas and Spielberg had been fans of Only Fools and Horses and decided to give a struggling actor from an episode 25 years ago a cameo. Are you for real?

If that's an indication of your high and mighty intelligence I'll take your put down as a compliment thanks very much.

Good stuff sure you're a great man altogether. I love the way you just throw posts together like they're fact and come across so condescending in them. I felt the shyte you came out with about Mexican waves was just that - shyte, but seeing as I don't know you I wouldn't go as far as to say you're an eejit or that, but anything is possible.
Jmurphy actually debated a point with you, yet you tear him a new one.
And as for me recognising an actor from the one show I've seen him in, boo hoo! You're some man to twist words for your own little agenda.
By the by keep bigging yourself up lad, someone will listen some day, honest. :rolleyes:

[boovidge]

I was watching the England match last night and heard a few times throughout the game they were singing their national anthem. Why can't we do that?

I'm not too sure God Save the Queen would go down too well at Croker tbh :p

[Red&White Rover]

"who does Duff play for nowadays?". Clearly we have a lot of people going to the games who aren't football fans - consequently the atmosphere suffers.

!

People/Muppets behind me thought we were playing Russia.


I kid you not.

[DeLorean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=522MQoXvzm4

[tetsujin1979]

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[tetsujin1979]

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