Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Saturday, 24th May 2008 - Friendly

[Reality Bites]

Obvious point, but the team and midfield in particular is crying out for Andy Reid and to a greater extent the forward runs and passing ability of young Mr Ireland, like berbatov is perfect foil for Keane so to is Ireland. We need him Back!

[Duggie]

murphy or keogh should start against columbia on thu. i think keogh deserves his chance and trap seems to like him. great goal on sat night with murphy flicking on to him.

[Carrigaline]

Well, a few things are clear to me after that match.

Keogh is looking like a much better prospect than Stokes. When Robbie Keane hangs up his boots, I can definitely see Keogh taking up his role.

Miller and Whelan were ok, but it's clear that the likes of A. Reid, S. Reid, Carsley and Ireland are a class above them. With Gibson and Garvan coming through the ranks, there's no reason why Whelan or Miller should even be in the squad.

Judging from his Reading and Ireland performances, Hunt is totally overrated. He doesn't have the class of McGeady, far too much headless chicken stuff.

Given our lack of options at left-back, Delaney deserves another chance for the game against Columbia.

[Duggie]

never rated hunt to be honest - shouldnt have to accomodate duff on his weaker right side for him. i want duffer on the left, still one of our main threats.

[tetsujin1979]

Given that the goal came from a set piece, and that we've been particularly weak in set pieces in recent times (aim for Kilbane, or Dunne, and hope for the best), I'm feeling a bit better than immediately after the game.
Doyle said last week that Trap had worked on free kicks, and throw ins, and the pay off was there in Keogh's finish.
Rome wasn't built in a day, but it's a nice start.

[Duggie]

im already in love with trap and tardelli have to say. ;)

[Oink]

Positives
- We didn't lose
- Dean Kiely, assured as ever
- Kelly, improving and looks to be a reliable defender
- Miller & Whelan. Whelan in particular; outstanding for a debut infront of 65,000. Was very impressed, if only he could play with the left and right. He may be slightly predictable turning but all in all very good.
- Keane didn't look as impressive individually as he might for Spurs but he's playing further up the pitch so should have more chances
- Keogh; confidence will be sky high and we may have unearthed a David Healy
- It may sound perverse but I was actually as pleased as you can possibly be when your own side concedes a goal. It is something that can be worked on and I wouldn't imagine we'll see it too many times in the future. Its probably better that errors like that appear early on and in games with nothing riding on them.

Negatives
- Didn't create anywhere near as many chances as we need to; although we beat Sweden 3-0 in Staunton's first game and look what happened so maybe perspective is required
- Delaney didn't quite look up to it. Needs to pass the ball better and I actually place the blame with him for their goal. I would imagine the shout came to get out, or indeed he should have been level with kelly on the other side. (just saw others have said they were very impressed so i thought i would clarify...I thought he had a decent game, but i hold him partiallys to blame for the goal (it can be ironed out the more he plays) but more importantly i thought some of his distribution was questionable and against other sides who hold onto the ball better this will be more costly.
- McShane: Forget the goal, a poor backpass nearly cost us and he simply doesn't look quite up to it at the moment. Communication clearly wasn't the best at times.
- Duff: Diving. Final product was poor but this will surely improve given games.


Always amazes me how different someone elses view can be than your own.

Kiely looked assured but did he have much to do at all? Any keeper worth their weight could have sailed through that match... in fact if I was being picky I would say he was really slow at releasing the ball and I didn't hear a peep out of him all game, very little communication with the back 4.

Kelly was solid for about 25mins and then his head went.... looks to me like a player who needs his hand held troughout the game, hopefully he'll prove me wrong.

Miller was the worst player on the park in my opinion, never really offered as a passing option to the back four and made them punt. Really looked out of his depth, we really lacked a creative midfielder who could link up with the wingers and strikers and also get the ball and spread it when the defence was under pressure. Whelan got stuck in and had an average game.

Delaney was very solid and no nonsense, he just looked like he wasn't used to playing behind Duff... which is something that you can only improve on with games. I was very impressed with him.

McShane simply isnt international standard.... any decent striker would have a field day with him. Definitely at fault for the goal, schoolboy error running out like a madman trying to play the offside, centre backs command the offside they should always be a yard or 2 behind the full backs and if the full backs are too deep then they push them out first... both of his full backs were behind him.

I agree with Duffs final product, the thing with Duff is the team really has to understand his style of football.. switching wings constantly etc. He is extremely effective at this when the team is aware of how to use him. I was hoping for Keane to link up with him a little more but he looked tired. Duff should have put the ball in the box quicker but I think he was just too eager to impress.

All in all it was a pretty boring display... although we looked a little more organised and closed down the opposition a lot better than under previous management. I'm still upbeat about how things will progress, it does seem like the Trapp is concentrating on getting the basics of international football accross to his players.

[Kingdom]

I was pleased with the outcome and I'm glad he picked the team that he did. I'm even more glad there is another game on thurs though!
Positives:
Damien Delaney. Played as well as could be expected, I didn't realise he is so tall. Very comfortable on the ball I felt. Deserves another chance on Thurs and would be happy to see him in the squad.
Liam Miller. Proved that another cap shouldn't be wasted on him. I class this as a positive as its out of the way in the first game!

Negatives:
The long ball game! Uggh, how often during the week I read about the ball in the sky being bad, expecting to see good ground football , and in the first minute Kiely and Dunne sky 60 balls to nobody. Start as we mean to go on lads.

[Denis The Red]

Agreed, not much to get excited about in the match but it's early days and I think there is a lot of work to do but I have every confidence in Trappatoni and think he will make a silk purse out of that sow's ear yet.

[Kingdom]

thought the defence looked solid, McShane made 2 mistakes, and was lucky to get away with the slack back pass.
Whelan and Miller weren't a great central midfield partnership. In future, I expect it would be one of these + a creative player beside them.
Hunt was poor on the left, and most of the midfield forward play came through Duff, I'd expect him to be dropped on Thursday
Duff played better than I've seen him all season, but still wasn't enough to provide for the front 2.
I find it hard to criticise Keane and Doyle, there was very little support from the midfield and, even if they played the game of their lives, you can't score without the ball
Delighted for Keogh, Trapattoni namechecked him during the week as a player that impressed him, and he delivered.

All that needs to be said really. Good stuff Tets.

[geysir]

I watched a recording of the game yesterday, just stared at the screen until I started watching about 10 minutes from the end.
International friendlies are now little more than good practice games.
The surreal thing is that FIFA give ranking seeding points for them.

Wasn't Andy Keogh's goal of the exact type that we had been rehearsing as 10 year olds in back yards all over the country.
Everybody could identify with it in some way, like - yeah that's the one, that's how I was planning it, a scorcher to the back of the net.

[Kingdom]

Can't wait to get out of headquarters.

Amen to that. I love the place when Gaelic games are on, but man the football matches have been stinkers there. I can't decide if its the stadium or the novelty fans that seem to get a ticket and dilute the atmosphere. What it highlighted for me is the need for a 10/15/20k stadium for these type of games. There's one being built in Limerick I think :)

Can't wait to get back to the Road.

[Kingdom]

Is Kiely, pronounced Keely or Kily, I think its Keely myself.

Ky - lee

[tetsujin1979]

All that needs to be said really. Good stuff Tets.
Cheers, just calling it as I see it

[paulie_walnuts]

Delaney was decent I thought. Didn't see much of Miller in midfield, nothing new there. So many people champion Hunt to start, yet everytime he does he disappoints. I know he's decent but I don't know, Duff and McGeady would be my starters on the wings. Keane really suffered from a lack of quality in our side, couldn't do anything that he gets to do with Spurs. McShane - no comment.

As for the crowd, sat in the Davin Stand, with these 4 bogger muppets behind me, shouting for Trap out and going mad when Duff lost the ball after shouts of 'go on boss, run the oul pitch there harse'. and of couse when people didnt get up for the Mexican wave (ourselves included) 'ahh jaysis dis is savage boys, why won't d rest of ye get up, ye are gob****es!'

Sooner we're out of Croker and back at Lansdowne, the better, less of these sort of idiots bringing the match day down

[carloz]

Trap was emphasising the importance of throw ins in the international game last week. He said he was amazed at how many golas Ireland have conceded in the last few years that came from throw ins. Nice that he is picking up on the significance of the little things

[elroy]

.

As for the crowd, sat in the Davin Stand, with these 4 bogger muppets behind me, shouting for Trap out and going mad when Duff lost the ball after shouts of 'go on boss, run the oul pitch there harse'. and of couse when people didnt get up for the Mexican wave (ourselves included) 'ahh jaysis dis is savage boys, why won't d rest of ye get up, ye are gob****es!'

Sooner we're out of Croker and back at Lansdowne, the better, less of these sort of idiots bringing the match day down


The place is full of people who couldnt really be that bothered if Ireland win or not and are just there to see how nice and pretty it all looks and join in with the bloody mexican wave. :mad: The atmosphere has been rubbish for almost all the games in Croker, though the other night was a friendly and atmospheres at those even in LR werent great.

I look forward to when we go back to LR, where the pitch is nice and close to the stands and we have 50 odd thousand people at games who care about Irish football. We also will have a fully complete stadium that will enable a better atmosphere, the gaping hole at the hill end doesnt help things in croker imo.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm glad I'm not alone in singling out Miller as being abysmal, yet again.

Our central midfield is crying out for someone with presence and someone with the courage to look for a simple pass from whoever is on the ball.

Apologies for my poor understanding of astro-physics here but Miller is like a black hole. It's not just that he has no presence, it's worse: he has negative presence. His very being there seems to create room for the opposition. He sucks the ball from our team and out the other side to the opposition.

Despite some thrilling attacking moments in the CL for Celtic and the occasional decent game for Sunderland (including at the Emirates in a 5 man midfield), the R5 Live commentary on his MUFC debut against Chelsea now looks generous - "neat and tidy but no more". God, if only he could even be neat and tidy for us it'd be a big step up.

Reid, Reid, Carsley, Garvan, Delap (neat and tidy, physically strong and athletic and a great throw in...), Rowlands, Gibson, O'Toole & Potter are all better players yet of these only maybe 3, max 4, could be trusted in the upcoming competitive games IMO. I'd like to see Rowlands get a start on Thursday if he's fit.

Hunt's poor showing may open the door for McGeady or Liam Lawrence in due course, with Duff reverting to the left.

If ever there was a case for playing some variation of a 5 man midfield, preferably an attacking 4-2-3-1, the last 3 games have been it. I suspect Trap will arrive at this conclusion though he says he wants to change things only slowly.

[Stuttgart88]

The place is full of people who couldnt really be that bothered if Ireland win or not and are just there to see how nice and pretty it all looks and join in with the bloody mexican wave. :mad: The atmosphere has been rubbish for almost all the games in Croker, though the other night was a friendly and atmospheres at those even in LR werent great.

I look forward to when we go back to LR, where the pitch is nice and close to the stands and we have 50 odd thousand people at games who care about Irish football. We also will have a fully complete stadium that will enable a better atmosphere, the gaping hole at the hill end doesnt help things in croker imo.Agree 100%. I've always felt that bigger is not necessarily better when it comes to footy grounds.

[stojkovic]

Yes, I hate Croker also and cant wait to get back to Lasndowne.

[shakermaker1982]

Thursday's game is surely the time to experiment? Let us see whether Garven/Rowlands/Scannell can make an impact at this level. Liam Miller has had enough chances now to impress and I hope he gives Whelan a new partner for Thursday night.

Kiely

Kelly-Dunne-O'Shea-Deleney

McGeady-Whelan-Garvan-Duff

Keogh-Long

I'd have given Dunne the rest but without his presence a McShane/O'Shea pairing could have scared the team for life. Bring on Scannell and Rowlands at half time and let us see if they become squad players for the big games to come in September.

[geysir]

Hunt had a poor game but if we discarded everybody who had a poor game in a friendly ....?
If he had an unexpected poor game then I wouldn't write him off.
He was his clubs player of the year, at least he is still a nr. 1 or 2 sub?

[DmanDmythDledge]

We can't play McShane as its like giving the opposition a goal start. The thought of Toni or Barbatov against McShane is scary stuff. Playing Kelly at center half is worth a tryout before the serious games start. I would even consider trying out Delaney at center half.
I think McShane would do well against either of those players. His best performances have come against target men, man of the match when up against Koller and also man of the match when marking Berbatov last season.

It would be madness to try a fullback at centre back- we're not desperate for a CB. O'Brien (hopefully) and O'Shea are both solid options at there and add in St Ledger, who has been getting very good reviews, and we're covered.


Reid, Reid, Carsley, Garvan, Delap (neat and tidy, physically strong and athletic and a great throw in...), Rowlands, Gibson, O'Toole & Potter are all better players yet of these only maybe 3, max 4, could be trusted in the upcoming competitive games IMO. I'd like to see Rowlands get a start on Thursday if he's fit.

Hunt's poor showing may open the door for McGeady or Liam Lawrence in due course, with Duff reverting to the left.

If ever there was a case for playing some variation of a 5 man midfield, preferably an attacking 4-2-3-1, the last 3 games have been it. I suspect Trap will arrive at this conclusion though he says he wants to change things only slowly.
I'm with you on this one Stutts. No reason why we should be playing longball stuff with the players at our disposal. Very exciting that we could have a good midfield with players who are all comfortable with the ball, and even still have some left on the bench.

Would prefer to see Duff on the right and McGeady on the left though- I think that would suit the formation a bit better.


Yes, I hate Croker also and cant wait to get back to Lasndowne.
+1. Such a difficult place to get to and has even more event junkies.

[mypost]

Is Kiely, pronounced Keely or Kily, I think its Keely myself.

Kylie. :D

[tricky_colour]

Kylie. :D

Yes as in Kylie Minogue, now is they some celebrity whose name sounds the
same Keogh? As most people (including me) don't know phonetic spellings it's
the only way to be sure of the correct prounciation, especially if you are in the UK.

[theworm2345]

It is Kyo, not Key-O, right?
And Kinsilla not Kin-Sella, right?
McGra not McGrath?

Forgive me, I've been raised on the wrong ways

[Wolfie]

I'm glad I'm not alone in singling out Miller as being abysmal, yet again.

Our central midfield is crying out for someone with presence and someone with the courage to look for a simple pass from whoever is on the ball.

Apologies for my poor understanding of astro-physics here but Miller is like a black hole. It's not just that he has no presence, it's worse: he has negative presence. His very being there seems to create room for the opposition. He sucks the ball from our team and out the other side to the opposition.

Despite some thrilling attacking moments in the CL for Celtic and the occasional decent game for Sunderland (including at the Emirates in a 5 man midfield), the R5 Live commentary on his MUFC debut against Chelsea now looks generous - "neat and tidy but no more". God, if only he could even be neat and tidy for us it'd be a big step up.

Reid, Reid, Carsley, Garvan, Delap (neat and tidy, physically strong and athletic and a great throw in...), Rowlands, Gibson, O'Toole & Potter are all better players yet of these only maybe 3, max 4, could be trusted in the upcoming competitive games IMO. I'd like to see Rowlands get a start on Thursday if he's fit.

Hunt's poor showing may open the door for McGeady or Liam Lawrence in due course, with Duff reverting to the left.

If ever there was a case for playing some variation of a 5 man midfield, preferably an attacking 4-2-3-1, the last 3 games have been it. I suspect Trap will arrive at this conclusion though he says he wants to change things only slowly.

Yeah - its been so painfully obvious that our "Engine Room", ie, Central Midfield is one of the poorest functioning midfields in International Football for how long now?

It always warrants discussion as its imperative that this area is organised correctly (albeit with our limited resources at present) if we've aspirations on not being humiliated in the 2010 qualifiers never mind seriously challenging to qualify.

Miller has had a number of chances to impress and establish himself in the team and has failed yet again to make any impression. No presence, no composure, no urgency and conducts nothing from an area that demands a player with the ambition to at least try and impose himself on the game.

When the Training Camp and these friendlies were announced I thought one of the possibilities would be that Whelan and Garvan would get the opportunity to play their way at least into the squad. Trapp's eye for a player would dictate that Whelan and Garvan would get a chance. This hasn't happened for Garvan as yet.

Thursday would be the opportunity for Garvan to at least be offered a chance to establish himself and offer an alternative to whats currently on offer. I understand that both Whelan and Garvan could not be thrown in together.

We're crying out for some footballing intelligence and an ability to pick a pass from the centre alongside a holding player. Andy Reid fits the bill and (dare I say it) Stephen Ireland is also from this mould of player.

[Kingdom]

It is Kyo, not Key-O, right?
And Kinsilla not Kin-Sella, right?
McGra not McGrath?

Forgive me, I've been raised on the wrong ways

Mark Kince-illa
Andy Ki-yo! As in KiYo muthafcuka!

[Kingdom]

I think people are reading a bit too much into who was picked last sat. To be honest I think he is going through a process of removing dead wood, after all I find it hard to believe that Whelan, Garvan Scannell haven't impressed in Portugal against our other limited players, when they've been impressing all round during the season.
Trap was being practical last Sat. Serbia was always going to be the harder of the two games, so it made sense to keep experimenting to a minimum given that he wouldn't have wanted to get off to a bad start as manager. Having said that Miller has played his way out of the squad if the others show even a modicum of ability.

Its a pity Rowlands was injured, I've seen him before and he's tough as nails.

[geysir]

It is Kyo, not Key-O, right?
And Kinsilla not Kin-Sella, right?
McGra not McGrath?
Obviously we say McGrath :) Pronounced McGrah not McGratt

lesson nr 2
How would you say
Andy Keogh went to Kehoes last night?

[paul_oshea]

It is Kyo, not Key-O, right?
And Kinsilla not Kin-Sella, right?
McGra not McGrath?

Forgive me, I've been raised on the wrong ways

ah the good aul yanks:

moran -> mo ran
mahoney -> ma ho ney
kehoe, keogh, whats the third way of spelling it again? the "ke" are not said separately rather the whole word is run together.

There are many more names that are backstardised, sorry i mean americanised.

[strangeirish]

qR2xjhy7ogA

[youngirish]

ah the good aul yanks:

moran -> mo ran
mahoney -> ma ho ney
kehoe, keogh, whats the third way of spelling it again? the "ke" are not said separately rather the whole word is run together.

There are many more names that are backstardised, sorry i mean americanised.
I would pronounce mahoney more like MA HAN EY. Maybe it's a dub thing. The way you list it above paul reminds me of a character played by Steve Guttenberg in a crap 80's series of police comedies.

As for the match the other night - replace McShane with a half decent central defender, replace Whelan and Miller with two out of of S Reid, J O'Brien, A Reid, S Ireland or Garvan and use Hunt as an impact sub and we should be on the right track.

I agree with Stutts suggesting Miller is a waste at International level. I'd drop him from the squad and replace him with a younger player with a bit of potential. I'd also drop McShane for a while from the team and the bench until he recovers some form at club level as he's proving a liability at the moment.

Hopefully we can uproot a good partner for Dunne before the qualifiers kick off as this is our weakest position (and no John O'Shea is not the answer as his previous 7 years in an Ireland jersey should have made painfully obvious). Maybe St Ledger or O'Dea can do a job.

[irishultra]

I would pronounce mahoney more like MA HANEY. Maybe it's a dub thing. The way you list it above paul reminds me of a character played by Steve Guttenberg in a crap 80's series of police comedies.

As for the match the other night - replace McShane with a half decent central defender, replace Whelan and Miller with a combination of S Reid, J O'Brien, A Reid, S Ireland or Garvan and use Hunt as an impact sub and we should be on the right track.

I agree with Stutts suggesting Miller is a waste at International level. I'd drop him from the squad and replace him with a younger player with a bit of potential. I'd also drop McShane for a while from the team and the bench until he recovers some form at club level as he's proving a liability at the moment.

Hopefully we can uproot a good partner for Dunne before the qualifiers kick off as this is our weakest position (and no John O'Shea is not the answer as his previous 7 years in an Ireland jersey should have made painfully obvious). Maybe St Ledger or O'Dea can do a job.

Police Academy crap?

[youngirish]

Police Academy crap?

The first one was okay but the sequels were dire.

[irishultra]

The first one was okay but the sequels were dire.

Ah now, come on.

[craig7042]

Hunt had a poor game but if we discarded everybody who had a poor game in a friendly ....?
If he had an unexpected poor game then I wouldn't write him off.
He was his clubs player of the year, at least he is still a nr. 1 or 2 sub?

I agree. Hunt was a classic example of a player in "end of season" mode. I wouldnt read too much into it.

[jmurphyc]

I agree. Hunt was a classic example of a player in "end of season" mode. I wouldnt read too much into it.

The worrying thing is though that Hunt has yet to really perform whenever he has started for us. Hopefully it's just taking him a while to settle at international level.

[Wolfie]

The worrying thing is though that Hunt has yet to really perform whenever he has started for us. Hopefully it's just taking him a while to settle at international level.

I'd high hopes for Hunt and admire his commitment and attitude. That said, I'm beginning to wonder if he's a "school yard" type of player in that he has no real rhyme or reason to his play. This isn't solely based on the Serbian performance but rather having observed over a period of time.

Everything is at a hyperactive, break neck speed with not much composure brought into the equation. He has a great delivery of the ball but rarely gets himself into positions to take advantage of this.

I'm not a fan of the term "Impact Sub" but it's a possibility that he may deliver his best performances for us in that role. There may be games where we are struggling or under pressure with 20 to go where he could take the pressure off the back 4 - provided he keeps the head and doesn't do a Czech Republic on it and get sent off.

There's a thin line between unorthodox and plain chaotic.

[youngirish]

The worrying thing is though that Hunt has yet to really perform whenever he has started for us. Hopefully it's just taking him a while to settle at international level.

IMO Hunt is a fairly limited player who's more useful for hounding the opposition when we are away from home trying to hang on for a draw or to a one goal league than being played from the start at Lansdowne or Croker when we need to win.

We need someone more creative in the wide area for games we expect to win. Possibly McGeady (who I've yet to be impressd by for Ireland) or Scannell are the way forward. Lawrence and S Ireland could also be useful options though I think Ireland would be better played in the centre.

[Jinxy]

Amen to that. I love the place when Gaelic games are on, but man the football matches have been stinkers there. I can't decide if its the stadium or the novelty fans that seem to get a ticket and dilute the atmosphere. What it highlighted for me is the need for a 10/15/20k stadium for these type of games. There's one being built in Limerick I think :)

Can't wait to get back to the Road.

Well, if the place is hopping for gaelic games, then surely it can't be the stadium thats responsible for the sh*t atmosphere. The game was boring. I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place. Instead we've a team which mostly consists of somewhat indifferent journeymen who think they are the bees knees because they've managed to get a gig in the premiership. Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

[jmurphyc]

Well, if the place is hopping for gaelic games, then surely it can't be the stadium thats responsible for the sh*t atmosphere. The game was boring. I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place. Instead we've a team which mostly consists of somewhat indifferent journeymen who think they are the bees knees because they've managed to get a gig in the premiership. Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

What an utterly idiotic statement. To create an atmosphere, the fans need to make it. The atmosphere was absolutely shocking on Saturday. The fact that it was the first game of our new manager - who is one of the most decorated in history - was an embarrassment. True supporters will cheer on their team through thick and thin. You can see that at plenty of lower league grounds across England or here at LOI grounds. I'm completely sick of Croke Park as there are far too many know-nothing event junkies at the stadium. The stadium was half empty by the time we scored. The least you could expect fans to do is stay until the end of the game no matter how poor we were.

[Jinxy]

What an utterly idiotic statement. To create an atmosphere, the fans need to make it. The atmosphere was absolutely shocking on Saturday. The fact that it was the first game of our new manager - who is one of the most decorated in history - was an embarrassment. True supporters will cheer on their team through thick and thin. You can see that at plenty of lower league grounds across England or here at LOI grounds. I'm completely sick of Croke Park as there are far too many know-nothing event junkies at the stadium. The stadium was half empty by the time we scored. The least you could expect fans to do is stay until the end of the game no matter how poor we were.

Thats the exact point I'm making.:confused:

[youngirish]

Thats the exact point I'm making.:confused:

Yeah seems to me you are both in agreement. I think the problem here is at present many of the fans in Croker are there mainly for the novelty factor of soccer being played in Croker. This will decrease over time. You'll have the same problem to maybe a lesser degree when the new Lansdowne opens.

It also doesn't help that Croker is too large to be filled for certain matches as will be the case with most friendlies.

In GAA matches you'll have a higher proportion of genuine fans at the games and for the big GAA matches the place does be rammed. The layout of the Hill helps also.

[jmurphyc]

Thats the exact point I'm making.:confused:

My apologies. I obviously misread the sentiment of your post.

[irishultra]

I knew the day Ireland played Wales that Croke Park wasn't the right place for International Football. Its a shame because it really is a class stadium, and I much prefer its location than Lansdowne.

I did think it was a joke that for a man with such experience as Trapattoni there wasn't a bigger turnout. Although being Italian manager from 2004-2004 he probably would have been used to it.

[Supreme feet]

I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place... Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

From what I can remember, qualification for those tournaments was achieved more on the back of solid away performances (Belgium '86, Scotland '87, Denmark/Spain '93) and an ability to grind out results against the weaker sides (Hungary, Northern Ireland, Latvia, Albania, etc).

If anything our home form let us down back then, as teams shut up shop and played us at our own game. Our home draws with England and Poland cost us a place in Euro '92, while similar results in the Euro '88 qualifiers (0-0's against Scotland and Belgium) and a heavy defeat by Spain in '93, almost cost us qualification for two more. Our home form was certainly not our strongest point under Charlton, and some of the home performances and atmospheres in those glory days were dreadful. The Italia '90 qualifiers were the exception, but that was probably the easiest qualifying group we've ever had.

Under McCarthy, we were excellent at home, beating Croatia, Yugoslavia, Holland and Iran in the big games. Great atmospheres all round, and considering the squad that McCarthy had, I refuse to believe we won't see days, and atmospheres like that again.

[Jinxy]

Maybe we will see those days again but I'm not very optimistic. I think along with the changes in society the status of international soccer has also changed. I honestly don't think it means as much to the players as it used to. And while that situation persists there won't be the same relationship between the team and the fans. It might be a bit misty eyed, but in the late 80's and 90's there was a sense that the team and the fans were 2 halves of the same whole. I don't think we can get that back as the players attitudes have changed and the fans attitudes have changed. Maybe it was just a more innocent time back then and now we're all that bit more cynical. The evolution of football as a product and fans as consumers may have a lot to do with this.

[Kingdom]

Well, if the place is hopping for gaelic games, then surely it can't be the stadium thats responsible for the sh*t atmosphere. The game was boring. I honestly don't know what people expect when Ireland are so mediocre. If we had the likes of McGrath, Keane, Stapleton, Brady, Moran, Whelan etc. still playing, your ears would be ringing walking out of the place. Instead we've a team which mostly consists of somewhat indifferent journeymen who think they are the bees knees because they've managed to get a gig in the premiership. Euro '88, Italia '90 & USA '94 are long gone and we probably won't see the like of those days again.

I disagree completely. The crowds that go to the two codes while not exclusive, are entirely different. In any of the games I've been to croker for Gaa, the atmosphere has been impressive because the games are non-stop from the 1st to the 70th minute, and also because their is an unmerciful amount of ball-busting going on due to a lack of segregation.

Its well noted at this stage that the lack of Irish fans at regular soccer games, or a lack of coherent supporting contributes to the gash atmosphere at home games. Indeed the only decent atmosphere in the more recent lean period for Ireland has been generated by the eL fans. which isn't exactly rocket science considering they're used to it every week. The FAI seriously need to look at the structure they have for ticketing for Lansdowne. Its unlikely they'll be ar*sed at this stage with only 2 more years at croker, but something drastic needs to be done in the new Road. Designating the Hill for away supporters was silly imo. It should have had the home fans. They're should be a seperate family/kids area too, after all language that might be ok to me and football fans in general, probably won't be acceptable to little Jimmy's mum.
I've still yet to see definite numbers for the stands in the new Road but I'd suggest the Home fans are stuck at both ends and if its at the cost of a few hundred seats because of segregation then so be it.

Someone else mentioned they felt croker wasn't right from the very first minute, I agree 100%.

oh and I think the good days will be back and sooner than people think.

[Kingdom]

Maybe we will see those days again but I'm not very optimistic. I think along with the changes in society the status of international soccer has also changed. I honestly don't think it means as much to the players as it used to. And while that situation persists there won't be the same relationship between the team and the fans. It might be a bit misty eyed, but in the late 80's and 90's there was a sense that the team and the fans were 2 halves of the same whole. I don't think we can get that back as the players attitudes have changed and the fans attitudes have changed. Maybe it was just a more innocent time back then and now we're all that bit more cynical. The evolution of football as a product and fans as consumers may have a lot to do with this.

Rubbish. These lads are the first real set of affluent kids to come through the country. We're all getting used to it. Look at the rugby team, or more specifically Munster. A team more in sync with their fans you will not see. I think the attitude shown by a lot of players in the previous couple of years hasn't been great, and I feel the fact are last 2 managers have had either self confidence issues or gingeritis issues but there is an antithesis there and its growing. Look at Hunt, and to a lesser degree Long. These two in particular when they get onto the pitch look like they'd run through walls for you. There was said to be a clique within the Irish squad in the last campaign (perhaps one was a feel-sorry-for-oneself-clique) but I really am hopeful things are going to change.