Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Saturday, 24th May 2008 - Friendly

[Razors left peg]

Defence wise he was rubbish imo. Hes another McShane waiting to happen. Very inexperienced and doesn't seem to have the quality for this level at all. Did well going forward but its defenders we want not strikers

My thoughts:
1. From the first game he played I knew McShane was rubbish
2. Delaney is rubbish.
3. Kelly is better but not much.
4. O'Shea and Kilbane should be in the defence 1st choice.
5. Robbie Keane should be dropped, Murphy is better than both Doyle and Keane.
6. Duff is rubbish at club level but always puts in a good effort at international level.

Will this team qualify for anything: Not a chance

yeah Murphy has proved he is better than Keane with all those goals he has gotten at club and international level:rolleyes:

[finnpark]

yeah Murphy has proved he is better than Keane with all those goals he has gotten at club and international level:rolleyes:

How many of those were penalties and standing in the 6 yard box. His performances for Ireland over the past 2 years have been a disgrace. If you don't agree with that then you don't have a clue. He should not be playing and definitely shouldn't be captain. Put him on the plane back to Las Vegas

[Razors left peg]

How many of those were penalties and standing in the 6 yard box. His performances for Ireland over the past 2 years have been a disgrace. If you don't agree with that then you don't have a clue. He should not be playing and definitely shouldn't be captain. Put him on the plane back to Las Vegas

First of all he has stated that he definately wasnt anywhere near Las Vegas. His performances in the Premiership for the last 2 seasons have been outstanding and while he hasnt been great for us neither have many of the players, but in Keanes case that has been down to the manager not being strong enough to tell Keane to stop roaming all over the pitch and just concentrate on the last third.Robbies biggest problem for us is that he has been working too hard in the wrong areas, but he could never be accused of lack of effort.Too suggest that Murphy is a better player than him shows that you are the one that doesnt have a clue mate

[jebus]

There was a noticeable improvement in how to keep the ball as opposed to the Brazil game. I know different class of opposition and all, but in the Brazil game it really looked like a bunch of u-10s playing with a ball down a park. They had no shape, no direction and clue waht to do when they actually got on the ball. Last night they had shape, kept the ball better (still not great mind), and actually seemed to have a game plan (attack the wings), that to me is an improvement.

Individually I think if Whelan can do as well as he did last night in the next few games he will be a fully fledged squad member. McShane's confidence is shot, and he could do with going back to the Championship and re-establishing himself at a club like Wednesday or Wolves. It's good to have Kiely back, Duff did well, but needs to cut out the diving, Delaney looked handy, and I'm still not convinced by the Keane/Doyle partnership.

If I were Trap I'd hope to God I can get a fit Steven Reid on the pitch, tell Andy O'Brien he'll get a run as Dunne's partner, pplay O'Shea and Delaney as full backs, play Andy Reid alongside a hopefully fit Steven Reid, put McGeady and Duff out the wings, give Scannall a start in these friendlies, and I'd recall Clinton Morrison

[irishultra]

How many of those were penalties and standing in the 6 yard box. His performances for Ireland over the past 2 years have been a disgrace. If you don't agree with that then you don't have a clue. He should not be playing and definitely shouldn't be captain. Put him on the plane back to Las Vegas


Robbie Keane standing in the 6 yard box? :rolleyes:

[Razors left peg]

Robbie Keane standing in the 6 yard box? :rolleyes:

If only!!!!:D

[Tipp Townie]

Trap,Tardelli and Brady were great when the goal went in! That was great to see.

I missed it yesterday, and i've been trying to find some youtube footage of the match, mainly for the equaliser and reaction of course.. Can anyone sort me out with a link?

[brine3]

I think Brady might have even broken into a smile.

[shakermaker1982]

5. Robbie Keane should be dropped, Murphy is better than both Doyle and Keane.


Drop our best player and the only guy who has shone consistently in the PL all season? I know he has not been firing on all cylinders (for us) for a while now but he cannot do anything with the ball if he doesn't have it. All he got last night was long punts into the corners to chase, sure I could run after them kind of balls and you wouldn't notice the difference. It's a waste of the guys ability. Ronaldo, Kaka and co would all look average if they never received the ball. Murphy is a decent squad player and nothing more.

[Greenforever]

How many of those were penalties and standing in the 6 yard box. His performances for Ireland over the past 2 years have been a disgrace. If you don't agree with that then you don't have a clue. He should not be playing and definitely shouldn't be captain. Put him on the plane back to Las Vegas


Do goals in the 6 yard box only count as half:rolleyes:

0.4 goals per game in the premiership and for Ireland is about as good as it gets, unless your name is Ronaldo:D

[mark12345]

Thats a ridiculous post.First of all ,Dunne very moblie and doesnt need help there, people see his size and just automatically assume he is slow and he is far from it, and Secondly Steven Reid has never played Center half in professional football so to start him there at international level would be stupid, especially considering how good a central midfielder he is and how vital he could be to us in the qualifiers in that position. If we had any midfielder that could be converted to a defender it would be Joey O Brien, he did well there against Germany, but unless he plays in that position regularly for his club we shouldnt even consider him there


So what do we do then, play McShane there? That's really logical. Joey O'Brien is a decent option, but not as good as Reid.

I know he hasn't played there but Reid has all the attributes of a fine center half. Just think "what would Jack Charlton have done?" (and don't give me a 'Jack Charlton just hoofed the ball forward' reply). The point is that Charlton was far and away our most successful manager because he identified weaknesses in the Irish team (like the big hole beside Dunne) and plugged the most sensible option in there - even if he was playing out of position.

Now maybe Delaney could grow into that position, but I don't think we've seen enough of him yet, but it has to be someone fast and strong in the tackle.

And you say Dunne isn't slow. Let's talk again when the Cypriot, Bulgarian or Montenegran number nines come calling. Dunne was shown up for his lack of pace in the last campaign and although we watch him week in and week out for Man City, he's not half as good as the Premier League commentators make him out to be. You'll not win a ball off him in the air and his positional sense has gotten better but he is still very vulnerable on the floor to a bit of speed.

Building from the back is what all the best teams have done - we need to start there.

[Razors left peg]

Thats a ridiculous post.First of all ,Dunne very moblie and doesnt need help there, people see his size and just automatically assume he is slow and he is far from it, and Secondly Steven Reid has never played Center half in professional football so to start him there at international level would be stupid, especially considering how good a central midfielder he is and how vital he could be to us in the qualifiers in that position. If we had any midfielder that could be converted to a defender it would be Joey O Brien, he did well there against Germany, but unless he plays in that position regularly for his club we shouldnt even consider him there


So what do we do then, play McShane there? That's really logical. Joey O'Brien is a decent option, but not as good as Reid.

I know he hasn't played there but Reid has all the attributes of a fine center half. Just think "what would Jack Charlton have done?" (and don't give me a 'Jack Charlton just hoofed the ball forward' reply). The point is that Charlton was far and away our most successful manager because he identified weaknesses in the Irish team (like the big hole beside Dunne) and plugged the most sensible option in there - even if he was playing out of position.

Now maybe Delaney could grow into that position, but I don't think we've seen enough of him yet, but it has to be someone fast and strong in the tackle.

And you say Dunne isn't slow. Let's talk again when the Cypriot, Bulgarian or Montenegran number nines come calling. Dunne was shown up for his lack of pace in the last campaign and although we watch him week in and week out for Man City, he's not half as good as the Premier League commentators make him out to be. You'll not win a ball off him in the air and his positional sense has gotten better but he is still very vulnerable on the floor to a bit of speed.

Building from the back is what all the best teams have done - we need to start there.

I didnt say that we should play McShane there.But it makes no sense to take out one of better midfielders and put him into a position where he has never played in his life.John O Shea and Andy oBrien(Im confident he will be back) are both better options there. Ive havent seen enough of St Ledger but alot of people seem to rate him highly and at least he is a specialist center half. To start playing players in areas that they have never played before is not something Charlton would have done, more like something Steve Staunton was excellent at....and look how well he did!
As for Richard Dunne being over rated by Premiership commentators, well he has just won Manchester Citys player of the year award for the 4th year running and is our current player of the year so I think he deserves a bit of credit

[Billsthoughts]

Great to see Kiely back, just the presence we need. Delaney impressed me too. Just look what happens when Keogh, a forward, is played as, eh, a forward. Long looked lively and athletic and Murphy added something. Doyle was off the pace but he's had a long tough season and, yet again, it's hard to fault either Robbie or him because the service was so shocking. Nevertheless his place is becoming very much under pressure.

Hunt had a very poor game.

I still have a feeling that playing some form of 3 man midfield may be Trap's favoured "solution" in the near to medium term.

Agreed on Kiely. Always thought he was as good as Given on his day. Thought Delaney was good but he seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism in the papers. I think the long ball from the defence into the space eithr side of the front two seemed to be a tactic as opposed to due to lack of options in midfield. Think Long looked sharp when he came on. Best bit of the nite for me was the celebrations of the bench.:)

[the doc]

I didnt say that we should play McShane there.But it makes no sense to take out one of better midfielders and put him into a position where he has never played in his life.John O Shea and Andy oBrien(Im confident he will be back) are both better options there. Ive havent seen enough of St Ledger but alot of people seem to rate him highly and at least he is a specialist center half. To start playing players in areas that they have never played before is not something Charlton would have done, more like something Steve Staunton was excellent at....and look how well he did!
As for Richard Dunne being over rated by Premiership commentators, well he has just won Manchester Citys player of the year award for the 4th year running and is our current player of the year so I think he deserves a bit of credit

The problem here is that no one in the Ireland set up (apart from Alan Kelly) can see that St Ledger is the man to play along side Dunne.

So they will continue blindly picking the likes of McShane, Bruce, O'Dea etc, makes you wonder who goes out watching these players at their clubs.

[Razors left peg]

The problem here is that no one in the Ireland set up (apart from Alan Kelly) can see that St Ledger is the man to play along side Dunne.

So they will continue blindly picking the likes of McShane, Bruce, O'Dea etc, makes you wonder who goes out watching these players at their clubs.

In fairness this has being only the first game for them and they maybe have made a couple of mistakes excluding the likes of St Ledger and Lawyrence, but as Ive said Im only going on other peoples opinions of St Ledger as I havent seen enough of him to agree or disagree with his exclusion. The qualifying campaign goes on for the best part of 2 years and I have enough faith in the current management team that they will get it right sooner rather than later even if initally they make the odd mistake... if St Ledger is good enough he will be in the team in the near future

[finnpark]

Do goals in the 6 yard box only count as half:rolleyes:

0.4 goals per game in the premiership and for Ireland is about as good as it gets, unless your name is Ronaldo:D

Please give me his stats for the qualifiers for euro 2008 and the teams he scored against and his average rating. He is way over rated and I can't remember the last time he produced a good performance for Ireland.

[stojkovic]

Everyone thinks Kelly had a good game. Did he not get skinned four times in the first 20 mins by their winger ? Had a better second half alright.

Delaney defended (his first job) very well and looks promising, but his distribution was poor.

Hunt did nothing, Duff flattered to deceive. Still not convinced Miller has a future.

Would like to see Long/Keane or Murphy/Keane given a run out.

McShane was 100% totally at fault for the goal. If one of my u9s did that I'd shoot him. You can see Dunne roaring at him after.

Going back to Kelly/Delaney and Murphy, maybe Trap has identified our need for more height in the team (Murphys knock on for the goal from the throw in looked rehearsed). If thats the case expect O'Shea at centre half on Thursday.

PS Tardelli's reaction to the goal was like a flashback to the 82 WC Final.

[livehead1]

I can't remember the last time he produced a good performance for Ireland.

Last night it seems he did everything that was asked of him.

[Noelys Guitar]

Going back to Kelly/Delaney and Murphy, maybe Trap has identified our need for more height in the team (Murphys knock on for the goal from the throw in looked rehearsed). If thats the case expect O'Shea at centre half on Thursday.

PS Tardelli's reaction to the goal was like a flashback to the 82 WC Final.

There was a touch of the Jack Charlton's to yesterdays game. Large lads, long balls to the wings and a set piece that worked. Maybe Trap is a closet JC fan.

[barney]

Please give me his stats for the qualifiers for euro 2008 and the teams he scored against and his average rating. He is way over rated and I can't remember the last time he produced a good performance for Ireland.

Oh dear.

His average rating? Your having a laugh mate. Where do you get that? From The Sun or somewhere. Robbie is our best attacking player and won't be dropped so I'm not going to waste my time pointing out the reasons why that is.

Thought we were decent last night. Whelan was impressive in spells. To be fair he showed for every ball from the back four but didn't always get it. He doesn't seem to do enough to be first choice but is worth a place in the squad.

McShane was poor again. He is getting slated too much, mostly probably by the same people who hailed him two years ago, but he's not good enough for the first team. O'Shea or one of the O'Brien's need to start there. Delaney, IMO, did well but he may not be good enough for a qualifying campaign. Miller was anonymous again, Hunt wasn't great but deserves another chance (I've always reckoned he's nothing more than an impact sub but he may prove me wrong) and Duff showed flashes of why we need him in top form.

Hard to judge the strikers, the service was muck. So too was Dunne's distribution, absolutely awful.

Decent start if a terrible game.

[honeymonster]

It has been a long season for all the players. I am sure Keane,Doyle,Dunne & co. are looking forward to well deserved break after a long and hard premiership season. To expect them to be firing on all cylinders against a young and energetic Serbian team is not being very realistic.

True that players should give 100% every time they pull on a green jersey but last night was merely a ice-breaker for Trap and team to get an introduction to the supporters of the green army. I felt the result accurately reflected the state of our national team post-Staunton.

Anyone who was at the game will have noticed the inexperienced referee Lee Evans from Wales (Welsh league referee) making an absolute haims of the game. Never playing advantage, slowing the game down for needless free-kicks and hop-balls, appeasing the young Serbian drama society made the game a slow and drippy one.

All in all this was a nothing game that is not worth reading a lot into. Considering we had a weakened and inexperienced team we came out ok and salvaged some dignity. We have learnt yesterday much of what we already know. McShane is not intelligent enough for top flight football, Miller is not influential enough, we need strength in Midfield and Defence, a job which Liam Brady will be extremely capable of given his scouting/coaching exploits for the Gooners.

Rome wasn't built in a day, see you in Craven cottage!



See post match analysis and interviews:-
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/audiovideo_index.html

[barney]

There was a touch of the Jack Charlton's to yesterdays game. Large lads, long balls to the wings and a set piece that worked. Maybe Trap is a closet JC fan.

Did we really play that many long balls? Was at the game and it seemed like the focus was keeping the ball even if it meant going back to one of the centre backs or Kiely. Looked nothing like a JC performance to me (although I might stand corrected).

[southbucket2001]

What about Kelly at centre half with Dunne? Especially if Finnan returns.

Kelly has played for Birmingham at centre half at times.

[honeymonster]

Did we really play that many long balls? Was at the game and it seemed like the focus was keeping the ball even if it meant going back to one of the centre backs or Kiely. Looked nothing like a JC performance to me (although I might stand corrected).


Its true, the midfield was just negative, Miller does not inspire confidence and he never looked for the positive pass to Doyle, Keane, Duff every time it was layed back to Dunne for to be hoofed. It showed that there is little confidence amongst the team at the moment.

I have read on Whelan "Whelan is at home in a role of a midfield playmaker where his assets, such as creativity, great range of passing and fantastic first touch can be used to full effect." I did not see a great deal of this yesterday but given it was his debut the experience for him is greater than his performance.

[theworm2345]

Holy **** HM I didn't even realize it was you/that you were here too without your proper avatar

[the doc]

In fairness this has being only the first game for them and they maybe have made a couple of mistakes excluding the likes of St Ledger and Lawyrence, but as Ive said Im only going on other peoples opinions of St Ledger as I havent seen enough of him to agree or disagree with his exclusion. The qualifying campaign goes on for the best part of 2 years and I have enough faith in the current management team that they will get it right sooner rather than later even if initally they make the odd mistake... if St Ledger is good enough he will be in the team in the near future

Thats a fair point, but they must stop listening and taking advice from DG, for me thats the root of the problem!

[Noelys Guitar]

What about Kelly at centre half with Dunne? Especially if Finnan returns.

Kelly has played for Birmingham at centre half at times.

We can't play McShane as its like giving the opposition a goal start. The thought of Toni or Barbatov against McShane is scary stuff. Playing Kelly at center half is worth a tryout before the serious games start. I would even consider trying out Delaney at center half.

[kingdomkerry]

Watched a bit of it again there (sky plus). It ****es me off that the sky commentators cant even pronounce players names. Who is Andy Key-hoo. Reminds me of Mark Kin Sella. Idiots

[Razors left peg]

Thats a fair point, but they must stop listening and taking advice from DG, for me thats the root of the problem!

Definately, but I think that Givens was just used until they got bedded into the job and got to know the player pool...... hopefully

[barney]

We can't play McShane as its like giving the opposition a goal start. The thought of Toni or Barbatov against McShane is scary stuff. Playing Kelly at center half is worth a tryout before the serious games start. I would even consider trying out Delaney at center half.

Agree that Toni or Berbatov would be too good for McShane, particularly with his confidence as low as it is at present, but Kelly is not strong enough to be a centre back and is prone to the same mistakes as McShane but they are not as costly because of where he plays. Wouldn't even contemplate Delaney at centre back to be honest. Too inexperienced and showed nothing last night to suggest he could cope.

Has to be Joey O'Brien, Andy O'Brien or O'Shea.

[Noelys Guitar]

Watched a bit of it again there (sky plus). It ****es me off that the sky commentators cant even pronounce players names. Who is Andy Key-hoo. Reminds me of Mark Kin Sella. Idiots

What about Paddy Roch A, Kevin More Ann!

[honeymonster]

Or Gary Dock erty!

[kingdomkerry]

What about Paddy Roch A, Kevin More Ann!

Cant understand why someone has'nt pointed it out to them that they are making a fools themselves. Jesus if you can say "crow," you can say "Keogh".

[Razors left peg]

Cant understand why someone has'nt pointed it out to them that they are making a fools themselves. Jesus if you can say "crow," you can say "Keogh".


All it takes is the slightest bit of research on the commentators part... George Hamilton is good at that when pronouncing foreign names

[TheBoss]

Is Kiely, pronounced Keely or Kily, I think its Keely myself.

[irishultra]

There was a touch of the Jack Charlton's to yesterdays game. Large lads, long balls to the wings and a set piece that worked. Maybe Trap is a closet JC fan.

Wow, why do people keep posting things that are so blatantly wrong. I don't mean about the long balls, but ''large lads''? The team is tiny.

[Noelys Guitar]

Wow, why do people keep posting things that are so blatantly wrong. I don't mean about the long balls, but ''large lads''? The team is tiny.

I was talking about the introduction of Delaney and the set piece that led to the goal.

[Qwerty]

Watched a bit of it again there (sky plus). It ****es me off that the sky commentators cant even pronounce players names. Who is Andy Key-hoo. Reminds me of Mark Kin Sella. Idiots

Send them a complaint or cancel your subscription. If everyone who was annoyed by their lack of professionalism did that they wouldn't be long correcting it.

[keenanboy]

Is was a snoozefest of a game. Crowd were flat and players looked a bit disinterested. I don't think end of season friendlies are a good idea, once the premiership/league one finishes the players have mentally switched off and are thinking about the beach.

Massive hole in defence for Serbias goal, you could have driven a bus through it. McShane has lost a ball of confidence and looks very shakey. John O'Shea looks to be the only long term option to go in beside Dunne.

Miller looks like he will never amount to more than an average second division player. Nice to see duff back, he needs more service. Midfield creativity was 0 and the need to get Stephen Ireland back in there is massive. Robbie Keane was chasing shadows again but worked hard. Doyle was useful, he's seriously good in the air.

[livehead1]

I was talking about the introduction of Delaney and the set piece that led to the goal.


Yep , i thought Charltonesque when we scored. For some reason it reminded me of that goal from the long throw i think against England volleyed into the back of the net..

[stojkovic]

Yep , i thought Charltonesque when we scored. For some reason it reminded me of that goal from the long throw i think against England volleyed into the back of the net..

Ronnie Whelan v Soviet Union per chance ?

[livehead1]

Ronnie Whelan v Soviet Union per chance ?

thats the bad boy.

[TonyD]

Watched a bit of it again there (sky plus). It ****es me off that the sky commentators cant even pronounce players names. Who is Andy Key-hoo. Reminds me of Mark Kin Sella. Idiots

What's worse is that Ronnie Whelan was at it too. You can forgive the English commentators (I suppose;)) but for someone born and bred in Dublin that's shameful.

[Emmet]

I thought Delaney had a decent game. There were shades of Charlton alright - especially early on with some of the tackles that were going in ("Put 'em under pressure!") - but of course there is a massive gulf between this set of players and the ones Jack had at his disposal. Their goal was down to a lack of communication: it's understandable given some of the players haven't played that much together. That shot aside, I can't remember Kiely having too much to do so the defence must have done something right for the other 89 minutes and 50 seconds!

For me, what was more concerning was how little we created going forward. Keane's shot off the line came from a deflected cross and we didn't do anything else really until Keogh's goal. We need to find ways to get the midfield players to link up better with the front men and the front men need to work harder to keep the ball when it comes up to them.

On a slightly different note, I was a bit disappointed with Duff's diving - the ref correctly told him to get up once in the second half but there were two or three other times where he bought us cheap freekicks which is alright against an inexperienced ref. We'll have better refs in the qualifiers though who might well see through that - we can't afford to be losing possession / getting players booked cheaply. His fitness levels look good - he was very sharp; he just needs to stay on his feet!

[Stuttgart88]

Did we really play that many long balls? Was at the game and it seemed like the focus was keeping the ball even if it meant going back to one of the centre backs or Kiely. Looked nothing like a JC performance to me (although I might stand corrected).
I thought we played more long balls than I've seen from us in years. Not once did Kiely play it short, Dunne hardly ever. I actually thought this was the single most notable feature of our play. Our ball retention is poor at the best of times in the last few years (a far cry from WC 2002) but last night was worse than ever and I can't remember Miller once showing to take the ball from defence. The back 4 tried to get it moving at times and each time it ended going back to Kiely.

Like Billsthoughts' Spanish mate said after the last game, it wasn't even football we were playing at times. Is passing and moving really that difficult? In the past 12 months I think only Potter and Reid have done the basics in any way well.

[stojkovic]

I thought we played more long balls than I've seen from us in years.

So Brady doesnt practise what he preaches.

[beepbeep]

Did we really play that many long balls? Was at the game and it seemed like the focus was keeping the ball even if it meant going back to one of the centre backs or Kiely. Looked nothing like a JC performance to me (although I might stand corrected).

i thought we actually wernt keeping the ball, everytime it went back to keily he hoofed it up field. and yes there was alot of long ball played, especially into the corners.

[barney]

i thought we actually wernt keeping the ball, everytime it went back to keily he hoofed it up field. and yes there was alot of long ball played, especially into the corners.

Dunne frustrated the life outta me coz he lumped it forward even when Whelan showed for the ball. However, I don't think it was a long ball performance in the same manner of Charlton's sides. There were a lot of occasions when the ball went sideways or back, just to retain it.

Found a lot of long balls came after a passage of passing that led someone up a blind alley with no other option but to punt it long. I don't reckon it was by design and I think it's something that will be weeded out with better passing and better movement as Trapattoni puts his stamp on things.

[tricky_colour]

Dunne frustrated the life outta me coz he lumped it forward even when Whelan showed for the ball. However, I don't think it was a long ball performance in the same manner of Charlton's sides. There were a lot of occasions when the ball went sideways or back, just to retain it.

Found a lot of long balls came after a passage of passing that led someone up a blind alley with no other option but to punt it long. I don't reckon it was by design and I think it's something that will be weeded out with better passing and better movement as Trapattoni puts his stamp on things.

Lumping it forward to a Premiership player probaly feels a lot safer than passing to a Championship midfield, rightly or wrongly.

[barney]

Lumping it forward to a Premiership player probaly feels a lot safer than passing to a Championship midfield, rightly or wrongly.

Duff, Hunt, Whelan and Miller are all Premiership players...but I know what you mean.

Surely though a five-ten yard pass can't be that hard to execute for a professional footballer, nor can the ability to know where you're going to play your next pass once you receive the ball. It also shouldn't be rocket science to move into a position where the person on the ball can find you.

Launching a long ball to Keane or Doyle is useless in the main because neither of them are good enough at what made, say, Quinn the player he was.

It's something that will have to be coached but these players should be good enough to play a better brand of football than just hit and hope to Keane and Doyle.