Will Ireland Qualify for WC2010??

[jmurphyc]

its also fair to presume that your average Joe Montenegro, Joe Bulgaria and Johnny Georgia football fan havent heard of more than 5 of our current squad either and to suggest that it would be otherwise is completely and utterly deluded. Dont kid youreslf.


I was about to post the same thing. Look at Croatia in the qualifiers. They had very few players playing in the top leagues, but they managed to beat England home and away and win the group. Too many teams have played against opposition that they know nothing about and probably think they should easy turn over only to be humbled. Look at England against Hungary back in the 50s (I think). The English players were laughing at them about how they were wearing "slippers" onto to be destroyed in the actual game.

[carloz]

My top 3 prediction;

1. Bulgaria
2. Italy
3. Ireland

I think a lot of people are under estimating the Bulgarians. If Trap gets this team to the world cup it will become a new wonder of the world.

I think Italy will exit the world cup early.
Some of us may be underestimating the Bulgarians, but you sir are over-estimating them. They are about on a level with us. We did very well in their last group while coming 3rd behind Holland and Romania but they certainly are not a team we should fear. Just looking through the list of second seeds again shows IMO that they are arguably the best we could have hoped for
2nd seeds
England, Romania, Scotland, Turkey, Bulgaria, Russia, Poland, Sweden and Israel.

5 of those teams have qualified for the European championships, while England and Scotland would be matches which would obviously be very difficlut for us.. With the exception of Israel I think Bulgaria were the weakest from that pot. I was quite happy when we drew them. Im not underestimating them whatsoever but we shouldnt be making more out of them than what is there

[Morbo]

but i think that the 2012 Euro Champs and the 2014 World Cup would be a more realistic target. Put it this way, i would "expect" to qualify for 2012 or 2014 more so than 2010.

Really? I would of thought our current squad has a better chance of qualifying than 2012 or 2014, Our best players, Keane, Dunne, Given will be gone or past their best by the time those tournaments come around and I don´t see any players of their cailbre coming, possible exception of McGeady, especially in defence where we seem to have a lot of average players coming though, we are also very unlikely to have a manager as experienced as trap for those touraments so I´m interested to know why you would think we have a better chance in 2012 or 2014

[SkStu]

Really? I would of thought our current squad has a better chance of qualifying than 2012 or 2014, Our best players, Keane, Dunne, Given will be gone or past their best by the time those tournaments come around and I don´t see any players of their cailbre coming, possible exception of McGeady, especially in defence where we seem to have a lot of average players coming though, we are also very unlikely to have a manager as experienced as trap for those touraments so I´m interested to know why you would think we have a better chance in 2012 or 2014

hey Morbo.

i actually feel we have a crop of very promising young talent coming through the ranks at club level. With Trap (hopefully) at the helm, things could be very exciting.

we have some decent young keepers getting regular first team footie. No Shay Givens, granted...
defenders - foley, painter, st. ledger, O'Halloran, O'Dea - O'Shea, Dunne and a couple of others may be the older, wiser heads in the group.
midfield - young James McCarthy, Garvan, McGeady, O'Toole, Gleeson, Gibson, Scannell, the Reids will still be around as will Joey O'Brien.
strikers - scarce but heres hoping Cillian Sheridan and Stokes come good. Not to mention the talent of Keogh, Walters, Clarke, Long. Doyle will still be young. Robbie should still be around.

of course there are no guarantees that all these players will have great careers but theres enough there, i think, to have higher hopes for 2012/2014 than this campaign.

[beepbeep]

montenegro beat norway 3-1 in a friendly few weeks back. they will probly cause us problems. trap has to sort our away form out. if he can do that, aswell as holding on to a one goal lead, i dont see y we cant make the playoff. italy will win the group and ne1 that thinks otherwise, is in dreamland.

[boovidge]

yeah very bad luck us getting Montenegro. There are no easy teams in the group. That could work in our favour though if they nick points off bulgaria.

[shakermaker1982]

4 points after the two games in September would be a good result. 6 would be fantastic, 2 draws and we are already facing a struggle.

I think 22 points should get us 2nd place.

[Hibernian]

[QUOTE=shakermaker1982;945955]4 points after the two games in September would be a good result. 6 would be fantastic, 2 draws and we are already facing a struggle.

I think 22 points should get us 2nd place.[/QUOTE

Thats about right 22 points is what we need I was thinking more towards 23 but its such a tough group that points will be taken off everybody.

To top the group we will need an impressive 26-27 points I think will do it to win the group. Cant see us reaching that total but with a few prayers............;)

[lionelhutz]

Pessimist... Boooooo booooo booooooooooooo

I'd like to echo these sentiments.

There's no need for the pessimism. I happen to believe that we could have a right lash at topping the group. It'll be extremely tight between Ireland Bulgaria and Italy and it'll come down to the games between the three.

Italy are being overestimated and Bulgaria under. Italy don't have the players of yesteryear and Bulgaria have a very strong spine to their team

[irishultra]

Hi lads first time poster(which is obvious as you can see from my post count)

Anyway I think we have every right to feel we can qualify. I'm not saying we have better player than Bulgaria, but at the same time I don't think they are better than us. They have one standout player in Berbatov.

I fear Petrov in the away game, but while I think he's a fine player I think we could easily deal with him.

I think the away game against Bulgaria might end up like those matches we had against the Swiss.

I have faith in Trappa, but I also would not be saying ''oh yeah we're going to qualify'', but there is no reason to be saying ''Oh Montenegro, blah blah...Vucinic..blah'' they will be a difficult no doubt but we are a good bit better.

[jmurphyc]

Given Dunne Carsley Keane... Our own spine aint bad....

I agree that we have the potential makings of a very good spine, the players have massively underperformed for a few years now and our spine hasn't had that much playing time together. There are also some massive weak links in the team: if Finnan and O'Brien don't come back out of retirement our defence doesn't look very good indivually (particularly left back), Doyle's poor form means that we may have to try a new player there (or bring back Morrison), and despite having a potentially excellent central midfield, no proper partnership has ever looked close to being forged between two of our players there. Then there's the constant injuries to key players, particularly Duff.

Plus, as methodical as Trapattoni probably is, the last time we went for an extensively tactical coach in Kerr, the players got bored of it, particularly the video analysis (which were only 20 minutes long apparently). Will the same thing happen again? As the old cliché goes, the players That said, Trapattoni is obviously a far superior coach to Kerr. As I said, we have the potential to be a good side, but we haven't lived up to it for a while now and I fear that Trapattoni may not have enough time to patch things up properly. I expect us to push the Bulgarians for the play offs, but we could definitely do better if Trapattoni gets the formula right quickly enough.

[irishultra]

I think he will get it right. And I think all our nearly men will up their game's by 10-20 percent under Traps stewardship. That's what great managers do. Look at Beenhaker with Poland. The first thing he said to the player's was 'You are good enough'. He inspired them to their first Euro's. Great men do things like this. Trap is a great man.


Exactly.

[lionelhutz]

Given Dunne Carsley Keane... Our own spine aint bad....

Don't rate him at all. I wouldn't have him near the starting 11 and don't think Trap will either. He can't pass a ball 10 yards and he plays in the most important position on the team. The two Reids are light years ahead of him as midfielders.

[irishultra]

I agree about Carsley. He is a problem. I hate his distribution of the ball.

Andy Reid, Steven Reid and Owen Garvan are the players who should be considered for starting places when all fit. Maby even this McCarthy guy breaking through next season(he will be 18 afterall)

[irishfan86]

Don't rate him at all. I wouldn't have him near the starting 11 and don't think Trap will either. He can't pass a ball 10 yards and he plays in the most important position on the team. The two Reids are light years ahead of him as midfielders.

Carsley is useful enough when played in a strictly defensive role, as he does with Everton.

At Everton, the playmakers come to Carsley to take the ball off him. The longest pass he'll make there is about 5 yards.

With Ireland however, Carsley was always expected to play as a traditional central midfielder, which he simply isn't talented enough to do.

I think he can be very useful for Ireland in the right formation and system, but in a traditional flat 4-4-2 I don't think he would perform.

As for Trap rating him, he specifically mentioned him in his press conference as a key player with experience.

[Wolfie]

I just worked it out:
Cyp 0-2 Ita
Georg 0-1 Ire
Mon 1-1 Bul
Ita 3-0 Georg
Mont 1-2 Ire
Bul 0-0 Ita
Georg 1-2 Bul
Ita 3-0 Mont
Ire 2-0 Cyp
Ire 3-0 Georg
Cyp 3-1 Georg
Mont 0-1 Ita
Ire 1-0 Bul
Bulg 2-0 Cyp
Georg 1-1 Mont
Ita 2-0 Ire
Bul 1-0 Ire
Cyp 2-1 Mont
Bul 3-0 Mont
Cyp 1-1 Ire
Georg 0-2 Ita
Ita 2-1 Bulg
Mont 2-1 Cyp
Cyp 2-2 Bul
Mont2-1Georg
Ire 0-0 Ita
Bul 3-1 Georg
Ita 4-0 Cyp
Ire 2-0 Mont

Italy 26
Ire 20
Bulg 18
Cyp 9
Mont 8
Georg 2

Having finished second, who do we draw in the play-off?

[Wolfie]

According to my calculations Scotland. We win 1-0 at home, draw 1-1 away.

Great. Joe Lapira grabs the last minute equaliser in Scotland to secure qualification. :)

[Hibernian]

Great. Joe Lapira grabs the last minute equaliser in Scotland to secure qualification. :)

He be worth shout after what I saw in Croker

On serious note in the freezing cold in Croker on Saturday night we will need much improvement if we are to get too WC2010 only thing I felt was that it was end of season and most these players are more focused on there sunshine holidays.

I think Murphy may well be option to play up front especially if we are play a long ball game which we did on Saturday night, anyone agree / disagree??

[irishultra]

He be worth shout after what I saw in Croker

On serious note in the freezing cold in Croker on Saturday night we will need much improvement if we are to get too WC2010 only thing I felt was that it was end of season and most these players are more focused on there sunshine holidays.

I think Murphy may well be option to play up front especially if we are play a long ball game which we did on Saturday night, anyone agree / disagree??

I was wearing shorts FFS.

I honestly don't think long ball will be part of our game once we get players like Reid and McGeady back.

[Hibernian]

I was wearing shorts FFS.

.

Were you expecting too come off the bench for the game? :)

[Morbo]

He be worth shout after what I saw in Croker

I think Murphy may well be option to play up front especially if we are play a long ball game which we did on Saturday night, anyone agree / disagree??

Agree with you, since Quinn retired we have being badly missing a target man and although he is not in the same class as Quinn he still got that crucial header that led to the goal, not saying he should start every game but he would give us more options to mix up the way we play

[Hibernian]

Agree with you, since Quinn retired we have being badly missing a target man and although he is not in the same class as Quinn he still got that crucial header that led to the goal, not saying he should start every game but he would give us more options to mix up the way we play

Your last point about mixing it up is what I was thinking also. He's useful because he gives us something that neither Doyle or Keane are really good at and that's winning the ball in the air he is also able to have a physical presence and I think he and Keane could work wonders for Ireland.

We had something similar in World Cup 02 with Quinn able to come off the bench and be affective e.g Germany.

I would not take too much notice of the performance on Saturday (although wish it could have showed more progress) I think important thing is that we don't become predictable and that we have Plan B's C's etc...

And of course be effective from set pieces and organisation is vital

[irishultra]

When I see some of the predictions, it really shows how touch and go it is for us to qualify. It seemed much easier in years gone by. This group could end up being like that group when nobody lost, but everyone drew too much, and then by France beating us put them in the driving seat. I honestly don't think Italy have the type of players to run away with a group. I love Italy, and they have great players, but maby some people here understand what I mean.

Hibernian-I asked Trap, but he said he couldn't possibly allow me with the shorts I was wearing. I also forgot my shin guards.

[craig7042]

When I see some of the predictions, it really shows how touch and go it is for us to qualify. It seemed much easier in years gone by. This group could end up being like that group when nobody lost, but everyone drew too much, and then by France beating us put them in the driving seat. I honestly don't think Italy have the type of players to run away with a group. I love Italy, and they have great players, but maby some people here understand what I mean.

Hibernian-I asked Trap, but he said he couldn't possibly allow me with the shorts I was wearing. I also forgot my shin guards.


I suppose we'll probably do well against Italy, but fall down in other games. I really hope not though. We are in serious need of the boost that qualification would bring... The Trapattoni effect could be timely!

[irishultra]

If we beat Bulgaria in Bulgaria on March 28th, we will beat Italy on the 1st of April in Italy as well. Mark my words.

I have a feeling the Bulgaria match will be much easier than expected, we will look in control for long periods but the match will end up like the Slovakia game.

[elroy]

If we beat Bulgaria in Bulgaria on March 28th, we will beat Italy on the 1st of April in Italy as well. Mark my words.

I have a feeling the Bulgaria match will be much easier than expected, we will look in control for long periods but the match will end up like the Slovakia game.

Have you seen how we're playing lately not to mention our away form of the last god knows how long. Havent won a decent game away from home in ages!

[Seagull-4-life]

I genuinely think we'll be rolling into Soth Africa come the summer in 2 years time

[The Legend]

I genuinely think we'll be rolling into Soth Africa come the summer in 2 years time


Ah sure why not, we'll stroll in like....:rolleyes:

[Razors left peg]

Fcuk qualifying.... we are gonna win the damn thing:D:D

[Hibernian]

now we might get Italy's backlash for the upcomming qualification campaign but after watching Italy during that tournament I honestly think that they are there to be overtaken in top spot from our group.

I for one know that know better team then Ireland to miss out on big chances but I think we could and so will Bulgaria be thinking that they can win the group.

Italy looked out of ideas and i know they were missing properly 3 best players but there not the same team from WC06 are they?

[irishultra]

Ireland Bulgaria to qualify for World Cup.

[Greenforever]

Mines a pint of carlsberg:D



Now your talking, July 6th 2010 Cape Town
World Cup Final
Ireland 2-1 Argentina
Mc Geady23' Messi 87'
Duff 89'

[bennocelt]

now we might get Italy's backlash for the upcomming qualification campaign but after watching Italy during that tournament I honestly think that they are there to be overtaken in top spot from our group.

I for one know that know better team then Ireland to miss out on big chances but I think we could and so will Bulgaria be thinking that they can win the group.

Italy looked out of ideas and i know they were missing properly 3 best players but there not the same team from WC06 are they?

how in the name of god will the irish beat that wall of an italian defence?

[irishultra]

LOL if you think Italy would even think of playing like that against us. Probably in Dublin but no chance in Italy. Counter-attack FYI.

[EastTerracer]

If we beat Bulgaria in Bulgaria on March 28th, we will beat Italy on the 1st of April in Italy as well. Mark my words.

Thankfully we don't have these two away games back to back. There's no easy way to get from Bulgaria to Italy by land (Kosovo???)

The game with Bulgaria on 28th March is in Croker and then Trapp's army marches on Italy.

[Hibernian]

how in the name of god will the irish beat that wall of an italian defence?

we dont have to. two scoreless draws and we will end up beating them on goal difference :D

But serious why not. The scotlands of this world believed they could beat them (nearly did) so why should we not think the same. Over in Italy fair enough might be asking too much even too get a result but they dont look like they will score goals in the other end either by what I saw of them in Euro 08.

Im really just saying that maybe we should not be frightened of Italy as much as people think we may get the backlash yes but for now I remain hopeful that there light at the end of the tunnel.

I mean if they are going to beat us the way you say should we not just give them the six points now would that be the best thing to do?

[EalingGreen]

If we beat Bulgaria in Bulgaria on March 28th, we will beat Italy on the 1st of April in Italy as well. Mark my words.


Stranger things have happened and who knows, maybe Trappatoni can pull off a victory against a (currently) troubled Italian team.

That said, it should not be overlooked that since the start of 2000, Italy have played 21 competitive matches at home. They have won 17 of these, drawn four and lost none, scoring 45 times and conceding 10. I hardly think this is entirely due to luck or coincidence.
http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ital-intres2000.html

Moreover, I've not checked, but when was the last time you won a competitive away match against a ranking team?

ROI could play very well in Italy (and Bulgaria, for that matter) and still come away without a point. Indeed, you could play very well throughout the whole campaign and still not qualify.

Indeed, if Trap is the manager you might reasonably expect him to be, he will make ROI into a very competitive side. Nonetheless, I'd still make Bulgaria favourites (albeit narrowly) for 2nd place in the Group, with Italy overwhelming favourites to win it.

[youngirish]

Stranger things have happened and who knows, maybe Trappatoni can pull off a victory against a (currently) troubled Italian team.

That said, it should not be overlooked that since the start of 2000, Italy have played 21 competitive matches at home. They have won 17 of these, drawn four and lost none, scoring 45 times and conceding 10. I hardly think this is entirely due to luck or coincidence.
http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ital-intres2000.html

Moreover, I've not checked, but when was the last time you won a competitive away match against a ranking team?

ROI could play very well in Italy (and Bulgaria, for that matter) and still come away without a point. Indeed, you could play very well throughout the whole campaign and still not qualify.

Indeed, if Trap is the manager you might reasonably expect him to be, he will make ROI into a very competitive side. Nonetheless, I'd still make Bulgaria favourites (albeit narrowly) for 2nd place in the Group, with Italy overwhelming favourites to win it.

For once EG I would agree with you though on paper I believe that we should have a slightly stronger first team than Bulgaria.

However football is not played on paper and on recent form they have been far better than us and I'd go along with your assessment that this should make them slight favourites to get second place.

I don't see Trapatonni being able to completely turnaround our dire performances over the last few years in the space of a few games and this could leave us playing catch up after the first set of matches. By the end of qualifying I'd expect us to be more competitve and to be playing closer to our full poential but by then it might just be too late to grab second spot. Anyway even if we do get into second place we'll very possibly be beaten in the play off unless we get lucky and avoid one of the better teams.

To sum up I can only see Italy topping the group and think it will be between ourselves and Bulgaria vying for second spot (the other teams will take points off ourselves and Bulgaria but will not be consistently competitive enough IMO to seriously stake a claim for second spot). I would think Bulgaria will struggle to beat anyone they are likely to get in the play offs. We should be more competitive against some of the better teams though might still fall short.

As for anyone thinking we'll beat Italy twice then you are living in footballing fantasyland. I'd be overjoyed if we got 2-3 points off them.

[superfrank]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2008/italy/7471598.stm

Italy have got rid of Donadoni. It won't be the same Italy that face Ireland in the qualifying group. With there players, if they get a better manager, they can easily do a lot better than they did in the Euros.

[irishultra]

Stranger things have happened and who knows, maybe Trappatoni can pull off a victory against a (currently) troubled Italian team.

That said, it should not be overlooked that since the start of 2000, Italy have played 21 competitive matches at home. They have won 17 of these, drawn four and lost none, scoring 45 times and conceding 10. I hardly think this is entirely due to luck or coincidence.
http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ital-intres2000.html

Moreover, I've not checked, but when was the last time you won a competitive away match against a ranking team?

ROI could play very well in Italy (and Bulgaria, for that matter) and still come away without a point. Indeed, you could play very well throughout the whole campaign and still not qualify.

Indeed, if Trap is the manager you might reasonably expect him to be, he will make ROI into a very competitive side. Nonetheless, I'd still make Bulgaria favourites (albeit narrowly) for 2nd place in the Group, with Italy overwhelming favourites to win it.

I don't know why I thought we had back to back away matches against Italy and Bulgaria.

I think saying ''we will win'' is a bit stupid, and I shouldn't have said it. A nation the size of Ireland IMO should never expect to qualify. Saying that minimizes the efforts the managers and player have gone through to qualify.

I would be dissapointed if we don't qualify, but I really want our credibility back. Ok we finished third in Euro 2008 qualifers, but it was the worst of the third place finishes of these Islands in my opinion(Scotland, England, Northern Ireland)

If we play well, and come November 2010 we haven't qualifed, then so be it.

[irishultra]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2008/italy/7471598.stm

Italy have got rid of Donadoni. It won't be the same Italy that face Ireland in the qualifying group. With there players, if they get a better manager, they can easily do a lot better than they did in the Euros.

What can they do better though? They were beaten in a fluke game by Holland, and went out on penalties to the best team in the competition arguably.

No matter who Italy have as their coach they will never run away with a qualification campaign. They don't play their ultra defensive style anymore(they did for some reason against Spain) but they are a team who struggles to score goals.

They are not a team to be frightened by, but they are a bitch to play against.


Having said that I remember Gilardino scoring a few against us a while back in a friendly.

[RogerMilla]

i think people are getting caught up in the whole trapa fever, he is a top coach but he is not working with a brilliant squad , as i have said previously i do not expect to be supporting the boys in green in africa, but i will be delighted if we get into the playoffs and then lets see who we draw.

[Closed Account 2]

I think we were in a far far worse position 8 years ago. Remember seeing Holland and Portugal (both class acts) as the 2 defeated semi finalists in our group. We actually beat Cyprus 4-0 twice in that campaign... I think that was a much harder ask then the next one, so you never know.

[minty]

Italy don't have the class players that they used have

[gustavo]

Italy don't have the class players that they used have

No you're right , I look at the team sheet and see Buffon , Cannavarro , Aquilani , De Rossi , Pirlo , Gattuso , Toni , Chiellini , Cassano , Zambrotta and wonder where it all went wrong for them

[Noelys Guitar]

If we improve and win our first three games then winning the group is not beyond us. But it will take massive improvement for that to happen and the emergence of a few stars (such as mcGeady stepping up to a Ribery type level which I believe he is capable of). The Italian's will always be strong and if we can get 2 points off of them then that will be huge. I would be very happy with 2 draws against the Italian's and 2 against the Bulgarian's. Then win every other match. A bit like 02 qualifying.

[minty]

I think we have an excellent chance of progressing...how many friendlies do we have before qualifying begins?

[newbie]

1 more left against Norway away in August. im more confident than iv been in a while regarding our qualification hopes. I think we will get 2 draws against Italy and i also think we will beat Bulgaria twice.

[minty]

I was looking for details everywhere about the norway game but the FAI site is crap. Who do ye think RTE will get to replace Brady?

[galwayhoop]

Who do ye think RTE will get to replace Brady?

Graeme Souness

btw I'm very glad it isn't souness involved with the Irish team!!

Souness will be a better analyst (than the often times drab Brady) but I much rather Brady involved with the team than the disasterous Souness. A win-win imho.