Trapattoni names his first Ireland squad of 28 [Archive] - Page 2

Kingdom

17/05/2008, 3:27 PM

:)
Trap�s Ireland - 'the process will be one of evolution rather than revolution'.
Good article today from boot camp in the Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=62949-qqqx=1.asp).

I get the feeling that no matter what happens at the end of the group, this is going to be a campaign we'll enjoy.
The hope I spoke of last week is giving way to pure excitement.

Wangball

17/05/2008, 4:46 PM

Lawerence is no loss...

Are you on glue???

Stuttgart88

17/05/2008, 5:11 PM

Anyone else suspect Scannell will be given a cap just to tie him to the cause? I don't think he's anywhere near ready yet.

soccerc

17/05/2008, 5:53 PM

Anyone else suspect Scannell will be given a cap just to tie him to the cause? I don't think he's anywhere near ready yet.

Don't be so cynical

shakermaker1982

17/05/2008, 5:55 PM

Anyone else suspect Scannell will be given a cap just to tie him to the cause? I don't think he's anywhere near ready yet.

I thought that was the reason he was called up :D !!! On a more serious note I suppose he's worth a look, showed plenty of promise for Palace this season. 20 minutes against Serbia would do him the world of good. With the number of dropouts we've had so far he could be starting next Saturday.

I'm really optimistic about our chances for the next campaign. If the Trap and Brady cannot sort this rabble out then nobody can.

theworm2345

17/05/2008, 5:58 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a cap in a friendly doesnt mean he will be tied, he'd be able to switch until hes 21

Paddy Garcia

17/05/2008, 8:03 PM

I'm really optimistic about our chances for the next campaign. If the Trap and Brady cannot sort this rabble out then nobody can.

What ...... given Brady's successful track record of sorting teams out ? It's why he has been out of management for the last 10 or so years.

He is an expensive interpreter.

Paddy Garcia

17/05/2008, 8:07 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a cap in a friendly doesnt mean he will be tied, he'd be able to switch until hes 21

I think it may well tie him as it's a game for the first team.

I'm not sure though I can face all the usual experts quoting rule 66, article 69, section 5, para 23, sentence 3!

I'd rather we did not play him & thus avoid the debate on foot.ie!

Greenforever

17/05/2008, 8:21 PM

What ...... given Brady's successful track record of sorting teams out ? It's why he has been out of management for the last 10 or so years.

He is an expensive interpreter.

well his last 10 yrs have been head of youth development at Arsenal, and they've broguht thru some pretty good players in that time.

and he can spaek italian :D

theworm2345

17/05/2008, 8:27 PM

I think it may well tie him as it's a game for the first team.

I'm not sure though I can face all the usual experts quoting rule 66, article 69, section 5, para 23, sentence 3!

I'd rather we did not play him & thus avoid the debate on foot.ie!
I don't believe a friendly is an official competition, even if it is FIFA recognized. I'm not good with all of this complex language so if an English major or something can try to decipher it that would be great, and we can avoid a debate

Page 32

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/fifa%5fstatutes%5f0719%5fen%5f14479.pdf

Paddy Garcia

17/05/2008, 8:28 PM

well his last 10 yrs have been head of youth development at Arsenal, and they've broguht thru some pretty good players in that time.

I'd rather employ their chief scout;)

Greenforever

17/05/2008, 8:38 PM

I'd rather employ their chief scout;)

very good, and give him a load of blank Irish passports :D:D

Greenforever

17/05/2008, 8:40 PM

[quote=theworm2345;944164]I don't believe a friendly is an official competition, even if it is FIFA recognized. I'm not good with all of this complex language so if an English major or something can try to decipher it that would be great, and we can avoid a debate

quote]

You are not tied unless you have played a competitive game at senior level, however FIFA and UEFA reserve the right to change the rules at a whim for political expediency:rolleyes:

geysir

17/05/2008, 9:24 PM

I don't believe a friendly is an official competition, even if it is FIFA recognized. I'm not good with all of this complex language so if an English major or something can try to decipher it that would be great, and we can avoid a debate

Page 32

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/fifa%5fstatutes%5f0719%5fen%5f14479.pdf
Jesus Worm you have a strange belief system.
At this stage there is no excuse for you.
For penance do a search through the Darron Gibson eligibility threads.
Page 346 should do it.
or if you were smart just do a search through the Joe Lapira thread.
Or some other recent thread which escapes my memory.
But please do not clutter up threads with a mistaken belief system.

Senior Friendly = "A" International

theworm2345

17/05/2008, 11:00 PM

Jesus Worm you have a strange belief system.
At this stage there is no excuse for you.
For penance do a search through the Darron Gibson eligibility threads.
Page 346 should do it.
or if you were smart just do a search through the Joe Lapira thread.
Or some other recent thread which escapes my memory.
But please do not clutter up threads with a mistaken belief system.

Senior Friendly = "A" International

You are not tied unless you have played a competitive game at senior level, however FIFA and UEFA reserve the right to change the rules at a whim for political expediency
Since when is a friendly a competitive international?

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cunningham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Armas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Vasquez

Don't you look like an idiot now? For penance jump off a cliff

geysir

17/05/2008, 11:22 PM

theworm2345

17/05/2008, 11:26 PM

Seeing as you already over the line and smoking a cigar in the winners enclosure can we have a bet on this? :)

Can we finish this once and for all???! (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=88296)

in particular
show me the way to go home (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=922004&postcount=8)
Apparently you didnt read my edited post, please explain how those three change teams if it is not legal?

Also, according to BigSoccer the FAI said Lapira is not cap-tied
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:c5l3mmbURSQJ:www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-540388.html+Lapira+cap-tied&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Greenforever

17/05/2008, 11:26 PM

Since when is a friendly a competitive international?

Who said a friendly is a competitive international.

Look before you leap.....

i'll spell it out for you, it was being sarcastic in the way FIFA and UEFA suit themselves regarding eligibilty of players.

theworm2345

17/05/2008, 11:27 PM

If I'm right whats the problem? Geysir certainly appears to be saying I'm wrong

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11657126&postcount=48

geysir

18/05/2008, 1:01 AM

theworm2345

18/05/2008, 4:34 AM

Worm you are not making the slightest effort to figure out my post.
It is not up to me to do an investigation into the intricateness of your thinking.
You should have made the effort to understand my post.

If you read the Joe Lapira thread you would have seen my reply to those examples.
FIFA CHANGED THE RULES OF ELIGIBILITY.
Those examples you gave predated the change and were based on the old eligibility rules to change ones national team.
My thinking may be even a little more off than before, but I'll give it a pop

According to our wonderful Football Association (and Greenforever), as of 359 days ago, when Lapira appeared for Ireland, the rules were the same as before, as evidenced in the email sent by the FAI to that guy at BigSoccer, Lapira is not cap-tied, so neither would be Scannell.

Right now I'm quite tired, confused, and a few other things, so I'm off to bed. No one really seems to know the answer so perhaps I'll email FIFA or the FAI in the morning. Or, if someone would like to lay it out plainly for me and without sarcasm (if you are going to be sarcastic, use a smiley) that would be nice too

Good night

kingdom hoop

18/05/2008, 8:00 AM

Well, good to see a gregarious spirit of conviviality is alive and well here,
ye bunch of tossers. Smiley for Worm: :) And just to show I'm not being sarcastic there: :). Really, I'm not. :)

I've just had a look at the pertinent Article and like the vast majority of legal instruments I've had to trudge through it is commendably (in the sense that it takes a lot of effort) ambiguous.

As an uninteresting aside, my theory is that the s'hit-kickers get stuck drafting these things and as a spiteful attack on the world they make them as nonsensical as possible, so no shame on you Worm. Less conspiratorially, the problem could be that the drafters are privy to the basic logic and arguments driving the need for the provisions, but fail to appreciate future readers may not be. It's like the fella telling you a story but leaving out a few crucial contextual details that of course you should've known because he does, even though he didn't tell you.

Anyway, on the off-topic, my interpretation follows Geysir's; the key point is the first one in 3 (a). I.e. because the upcoming matches are at "A" international level if Scannell plays then, regardless of his tender age or that the match is a friendly, he will be tied to Ireland for ever and ever. End of, fact, etc.

I can easily see how you got confused Worm, you know, being American and all -- chill, joke. But seriously, the Article was written to clear up underage-capped players rather than senior so must be read in that light. So there's no need to get bogged down in the "before his 21st" and "official competition" bits, that only comes into play for players who haven't played a senior international. To reiterate, the only words you need concern yourself with are the first dozen or so in 3 (a).

Hopefully that's laid it out plainly for you. I do apologise for slipping in a bit of sarcasm on one occasion though. Geysir's influence is clearly brushing off on me! If you've any more questions post them here. I wouldn't bother e-mailing the FAI. Now I've one question for you: What were the "few other things" you were last night?

livehead1

18/05/2008, 8:45 AM

Jesus, you're sure taking your time to get the bottom of this lads!!

Lapira isn't tied to us. Neither will any player who plays a part in the forthcoming friendlies.

Indeed perhaps a useful example of how seriously these friendlies ar etaken is Kieron Westwood. He's been called up to the Ireland squad. Who on this board believes that he has an Irish passport. Up until the other day he said he 'wasn't exactly irish!' I also seem to recall a player, Anthony Gerard I think it was, who played a number of games in underage friendlies for us, before it was realised that he wasn't actually entitled to play for us!

Paddy Garcia

18/05/2008, 9:02 AM

Can someone put the answer on a feckin sticky.

geysir

18/05/2008, 12:15 PM

My thinking may be even a little more off than before, but I'll give it a pop
You should have gone with the initial thought.:)

According to our wonderful Football Association (and Greenforever), as of 359 days ago, when Lapira appeared for Ireland, the rules were the same as before, as evidenced in the email sent by the FAI to that guy at BigSoccer, Lapira is not cap-tied, so neither would be Scannell.

I asked you to read the short Can we finish this once and for all (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=88296) thread where that letter was debated. There is no need to debate it twice.
Or open up that thread to ask another question.

Strangely, I do seem to remember reading some poster on Big Soccer called Worm pouring scorn about this so called letter from the FAI.
Could be wrong

Wangball

18/05/2008, 1:19 PM

Anyone else suspect Scannell will be given a cap just to tie him to the cause? I don't think he's anywhere near ready yet.

I think this is probably the main reason but don't think its a bad thing either, am kind of surprised that McCarthy at Hamilton wasn't called up for the same reason

Stuttgart88

18/05/2008, 3:54 PM

Yep, was thinking the same about McCarthy.

Anyway, I don't see why Geysir's understanding of the relevant clauses is under question.

Once McGeady came on for a minute against Jamaica or whoever it was he was tied to us.

Likewise Lapira and anyone who plays the next couple of friendlies.

An "A" International is a senior game, friendly or not. Once you play in one of these that's it. The next bit of the rule book says playing any game in an "official competition" also ties you. This, in my understanding is a catch all phrase, but given what it already says about any type of "A" international, by default it means underage or B international.

Therefore the only opening for a player to wriggle out of being tied to a particular country is to have played at a level other than "A" international and NOT in an official competition, i.e., a "B" international or underage international friendly. If one has played in these type of games only he can "change nationality" once and only if he's not yet 21.

It does allow for the political situation where a player's nationality can be repudiated etc. but unless there's some pretty major political upheaval around these parts it means that any debutant playing for us this month is tied. FIFA can always change the rules again of course!

Qwerty

18/05/2008, 4:21 PM

Not this again! So tell me how many players have we lost anyhow that went on have decent careers?

When I say lost I mean players who actually played for us a youth level then jumped ship. So I don't count Kevin Nolan as he never actually played even if he was kitted out once and on the bench. He obvioulsy wasn't sure then and has hummed and hawed a few time since when it was too late.

If there are any doubts in the minds of Scannell or McCarthy they should wait and decide who they really want to play for. But I think these 2 lads, McCarthy especialy know what they want.

Keiren Westwood should not be in the squad unless he can explain his comments quoted in the media, they just may have come out wrong. But if he just happens to have an Irish granny and that is all and he has no real Irish connection he should not be in the squad - whether or not we have better options available. Neither should Bruce.

tetsujin1979

18/05/2008, 4:24 PM

Keiren Westwood should not be in the squad unless he can explain his comments quoted in the media, they just may have come out wrong. But if he just happens to have an Irish granny and that is all and he has no real Irish connection he should not be in the squad - whether or not we have better options available. Neither should Bruce.
Westwood's father is from Dublin

boovidge

18/05/2008, 4:50 PM

there are conflicting reports. Some say he qualifies through parentage, others by grandparentage. I think its his Dad's mum he qualifies from.

I hope he's been misquoted but I don't really see why he couldnt have said something like "I wasn't born in Ireland but i'm proud of my Irish heritage and would love to play for the Republic of Ireland at International level." Instead of the "I'm not Irish as such" and "I would definately consider" (playing for Ireland)

Anyway he's been picked now and best of luck to him :)

I can't believe the elegibility rules debate is back. I thought we'd sorted this out a while ago :o

theworm2345

18/05/2008, 4:58 PM

I'll email FIFA to get a straight answer

rambler14

18/05/2008, 5:07 PM

I thought it was brilliant that after only one training session Trappatoni was able to pick out the problem that the team had with Staunton.
At the end of the 1st session he was able to see that, the team train too fast and because of this can't take anything in.

geysir

18/05/2008, 7:49 PM

They showed some home video camera footage of the practice game on RTE news.
And then Trap had a post match interview.

Aren't there are some things we don't have to know about?

Stuttgart88

18/05/2008, 8:59 PM

I'll email FIFA to get a straight answerBut Worm, the relevant article is perfectly clear, albeit written in a legal tone, not simple English. It really is clear, trust me.

Stuttgart88

18/05/2008, 9:05 PM

I have no problem with Westwood's comments. Footballers are not know for being articulate. He's a goalkeeper not a barrister.

"I'm not Irish as such but I'm a good catholic boy" = I wasn't born and bred in Ireland. I have an Irish background and it's in my family.

So, just the same, if not even a bit better, than scores of Irish internationals before him.

I was born in Glasgow. I'm not Scottish as such.

Wangball

18/05/2008, 9:45 PM

Over in the UK there's a bit of an ignorance when it comes to being Irish & being Catholic, I lived in Glasgow for many years and you'd get people (Scottish born Celtic Supporters) telling you that they felt more Irish than Scottish, this used to annoy me and when I pushed them for a reason they'd look at me blankly & say sure I'm a Catholic, was drinking with a load of them once and they wouldn't believe me that Wolfe Tone & Daniel O'Connell were Protestant

I'm not saying this is the case for everyone but to a lot of British folk being Catholic is synonymous with being Irish...when Westwood said what he said he was probably attempting to solidify his "Irishness" by showing that he is a Catholic as he probably perceives all of us to be God fearing Papists too...the "I'm not Irish as such" part is him clumsily acknowledging that he wasn't born here....thats my reading of it anyhow

stojkovic

18/05/2008, 9:48 PM

I'm not saying this is the case for everyone but to a lot of British folk being Catholic is synonymous with being Irish

And there are more Catholics in England than there is in Ireland !

Wangball

18/05/2008, 9:56 PM

And there are more Catholics in England than there is in Ireland !

Thats the most ridiculous part of it

Qwerty

18/05/2008, 11:04 PM

they wouldn't believe me that Wolfe Tone & Daniel O'Connell were Protestant

They were half right not to.

livehead1

18/05/2008, 11:09 PM

They were half right not to.

Wasn't O'Connell a catholic? Robert Emmet was protestant though...

geysir

19/05/2008, 9:48 AM

There's a post match interview piece in the Examiner with Hunt.

The headline is Hunt keeps his Trap shut (http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=63075-qqqx=1.asp)

Hunt is a peculiar dummy because he then goes on to provide 3 paragraphs of quotes.

theworm2345

20/05/2008, 12:14 AM

I would be quite happy to see Keogh with Keane up front. Just based on this he certainly deserves it more than any of the others. Keogh set up Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (and the other Wolves stikers) countless times. He also scored at least 10. Whelan's pretty good too.

Some videos of Keogh setting others up
http://www.sendspace.com/file/lqm77w

FarBeag

20/05/2008, 7:37 AM

Well. We have two big problems at the moment. Someone to partner Dunne and someone to partner Keane. Doyle is just not doing it at present.

the doc

20/05/2008, 8:23 AM

Well. We have two big problems at the moment. Someone to partner Dunne and someone to partner Keane. Doyle is just not doing it at present.

St Ledger to eventually partner Dunne and Keogh to partner Keane, saw Keogh at Deepdale and he was top draw when he came on.

McShane and Bruce! Oh dear!

youngirish

20/05/2008, 10:12 AM

Wasn't O'Connell a catholic? Robert Emmet was protestant though...

Yeah O'Connell was a Catholic. Wolfe Tone, Emmet, Grattan and Parnell were all Protestants though Wolfe Tone was fairly anti-religious in many respects.

Slaney

20/05/2008, 7:29 PM

I'm slightly suprised that Noel Hunt hasn't been named in the squad.

Superhoops

21/05/2008, 9:15 AM

Yeah O'Connell was a Catholic. Wolfe Tone, Emmet, Grattan and Parnell were all Protestants though Wolfe Tone was fairly anti-religious in many respects.
Are they defenders, forwards or midfielders?

Assume Wolfe Tone, Emmet, Grattan and Parnell are all predominantly left footed? :D

EastTerracer

22/05/2008, 2:04 AM

beepbeep

22/05/2008, 4:18 AM

Well at least we now have a Champions League winner in the squad. O'Shea does get a lot of stick (frequently deserved) but he's played in 6 Champions League games for Manchester United this season and fair play to him for getting on the bench today. I'm no United fan but he's one of very few Irish players to have won a Champions League so good luck to him.

couldnt have said it better meself, but of course u have people here who will play eh, delaney ahead of him....or o dea, who doesnt even make da celtic back 4, but ya people here should have their own opinion. but to drop o shea, with his experience at utd/international level etc etc............ its traps choice. but yer wrong(da majority of ye)