View Full Version : FAI Cup 2008
With some high profile cup semi finals aroudn this time of the year, champs lge, uefa cup, I was thinking, does anyone else agree that its a very unfair advantage to be drawn away in the FAI Cup semi final?
Why did the fai stop the two leg version ? surely this is a better way for everyone, increased crowds at both games, better for TV etc, and if away goals apply, then both sides would have an equal chance to progress.
When was it changed, late 80`s? (last one I can recall was Dlk v Bohs 87, same year of the last game in Milltown Rovers v Sligo in the other semi)
OK we`re not a big enough league to have neutral venues (although this was tried in the 70`s), but I think its something that needs looked at in the long term.
Sheridan
15/04/2008, 9:49 PM
The only reason for the two-legged semis was that several semi-final ties in the late seventies and early eighties went to three or four replays and held the entire season up. Not a problem anymore with penalty shoot-outs at the end of the first.
Paddyfield
15/04/2008, 9:55 PM
OK we`re not a big enough league to have neutral venues (although this was tried in the 70`s), but I think its something that needs looked at in the long term.
The FAI used 'neutral' venues in 1985. Galway United played Limerick City in the FAI Cup semi final at TOLKA PARK. It ended in a 2 - 2 draw and the replay was played midweek at 2pm in ATHLONE (no floodlights) which Galway United won after extra time.
I agree that there should be a 2 legged semi final. It would bring extra cash into Clubs.
thischarmingman
15/04/2008, 10:29 PM
Not to mention the farce involving the League Cup final venue.
Not that it'll change the name on the trophy.
Schumi
16/04/2008, 8:26 AM
With some high profile cup semi finals aroudn this time of the year, champs lge, uefa cup, I was thinking, does anyone else agree that its a very unfair advantage to be drawn away in the FAI Cup semi final?No more of a disadvantage than in every other round surely?
dcfcsteve
16/04/2008, 9:14 AM
I don't think we have the support in our league to justify a neutral venue and/or two-legged Cup Semi to be honest.
There's no point being pedantic about the rules other footballing countries/competitions have, and then playing our semis in near-empty neutral stadiums, or reducing away support by having two legs.
We don't even have the League Cup Final at a neutral venue any more, largely again I believe because of crowds.
We don't even have the League Cup Final at a neutral venue any more, largely again I believe because of crowds.
Largely because it was never nuetral. Was two legged for a while
I think we've been drawn away in the last 5/6 semis we've played
GavinZac
16/04/2008, 10:24 AM
No more extra matches, please. We already have at least 5 setanta cup games in autumn.
scrap the league cup, scrap the setanta, and have a truely all-ireland cup competition, i.e. knockouts.
WoodquayBoy
16/04/2008, 11:12 AM
Anyone know when the draw is this year? We need something to look forward to down this neck of the woods
SunderlandBohs
16/04/2008, 11:54 AM
Here's an idea for the League Cup final. Play it on the October Bank Holiday weekend in RDS or Thomond Park. It'll add to the occasion and raise the profile of the cup.
superfrank
16/04/2008, 12:29 PM
What I hate about the Cup is that they schedule the semis for a weekend that already has league games. Why?
I've noticed they do this in other countries too. Or people stupid or what?
GavinZac
16/04/2008, 12:30 PM
Or people stupid or what?
Apparently.
Dodge
16/04/2008, 12:42 PM
What I hate about the Cup is that they schedule the semis for a weekend that already has league games. Why?
Because the semis affect 4 teams, a max of maybe 8. Why should other teams have a week off when they could potentially be playing. Don't forget most clubs' finances live week to week
superfrank
16/04/2008, 12:46 PM
Yeah but in Ireland, more often then not, it'll be four Premier sides competing, meaning re-arranging two, at least, fixtures towards the end of the season when teams are knackered and the risk of games being called off due to the weather is much greater.
dcfcsteve
17/04/2008, 12:23 AM
Here's an idea for the League Cup final. Play it on the October Bank Holiday weekend in RDS or Thomond Park. It'll add to the occasion and raise the profile of the cup.
Thomond Park ?!? Too far for pretty much any likely finalists.
As for the RDS - same issue again : What if it was Derrry v Sligo, or Galway v Harps etc. What's the point in expecting both sets of fans to travel big distances for an EL competition that is only the third most important, and is on TV ?
osarusan
17/04/2008, 12:55 AM
What if it was Derrry v Sligo,
:D
I see you're taking this seriously Steve.
Celdrog
17/04/2008, 3:09 AM
We already have at least 5 setanta cup games in autumn.Where do you propose the sixth coming from? The final (and semi) goes to penalties if its a draw. Not that you have ever got that far.
Now, playing the Setanta final at the home ground of your competitor without a draw, Setanta simply telling you at the semi final stage - that's unfair (not that it made any difference)
Setanta simply telling you at the semi final stage - that's unfair (not that it made any difference)
In fairness when the competition started they said that they'd alternate between Dublin and Belfast if it was FAI v IFA
Shouldn't have been a surprise to you
Stato
17/04/2008, 10:14 AM
does anyone else agree that its a very unfair advantage to be drawn away in the FAI Cup semi final?
To get back to the original question, look at the last four seasons:
2007 Semis:
Dalymount: Bohs 0-2 Cork
Belfield: UCD 0-1 Longford
2006 Semis:
Tolka: Rovers 0-2 Pats
Showgrounds: Sligo 0-0 Derry
2005 Semis:
Turner's Cross: Cork 1-0 Derry
United Park: Drogheda 2-1 Bray
2004 Semis:
Brandywell: Derry 1-2 Waterford
Flancare: Longford 0-0 Drogheda
Two home wins, two draws and four away wins in eight matches, statistically the advantage is with the away teams.
Stato
17/04/2008, 10:18 AM
Now, playing the Setanta final at the home ground of your competitor without a draw, Setanta simply telling you at the semi final stage - that's unfair (not that it made any difference)
The Setanta final venue rules are simple. If the two finalists are from the Carnegie League, it's played in Windsor, if they're both from the eircom League it's played in Tolka. When there is one team from each league it alternates between Tolka and Windsor. That's been the rule since the start of the competition in 2005. All clubs that have competed in it know that.
2005: Shels v Linfield was in Tolka
2006: Drogheda v Cork was in Tolka
2007: Drogheda v Linfield was in Windsor
Therefore if it's one team from each league the 2008 final will be in Tolka.
SunderlandBohs
17/04/2008, 10:54 AM
Thomond Park ?!? Too far for pretty much any likely finalists.
As for the RDS - same issue again : What if it was Derrry v Sligo, or Galway v Harps etc. What's the point in expecting both sets of fans to travel big distances for an EL competition that is only the third most important, and is on TV ?
I wasn't saying just the RDS or Thomond Park. They're just two venues I picked out at random. The point I was trying making was it would raise the profile of the cup & it would be a big day out for the fans.
oriel
17/04/2008, 12:45 PM
To get back to the original question, look at the last four seasons:
2007 Semis:
Dalymount: Bohs 0-2 Cork
Belfield: UCD 0-1 Longford
2006 Semis:
Tolka: Rovers 0-2 Pats
Showgrounds: Sligo 0-0 Derry
2005 Semis:
Turner's Cross: Cork 1-0 Derry
United Park: Drogheda 2-1 Bray
2004 Semis:
Brandywell: Derry 1-2 Waterford
Flancare: Longford 0-0 Drogheda
Two home wins, two draws and four away wins in eight matches, statistically the advantage is with the away teams.
Good post, I hadn`t realised the away team performed so well in recent years.
The Setanta final venue rules are simple. If the two finalists are from the Carnegie League, it's played in Windsor, if they're both from the eircom League it's played in Tolka. When there is one team from each league it alternates between Tolka and Windsor. That's been the rule since the start of the competition in 2005. All clubs that have competed in it know that.
2005: Shels v Linfield was in Tolka
2006: Drogheda v Cork was in Tolka
2007: Drogheda v Linfield was in Windsor
Therefore if it's one team from each league the 2008 final will be in Tolka.
Those arent the rules. If wed beaten Linfield in the semi last year the final was to be played at the cross. It doesnt necessarily have to be Tolka
GavinZac
17/04/2008, 8:39 PM
Those arent the rules. If wed beaten Linfield in the semi last year the final was to be played at the cross. It doesnt necessarily have to be Tolka
Not necessarily Tolka, because Tolka was swamp at the time. However, it is to be a necessarily an FAI stadium.
Candystripe
17/04/2008, 9:47 PM
What would the betting be if it was to be a Linfield V Derry final it would get played at Windsor!
If it was, I reckon there would be a 14,000 full house at it.
Those arent the rules. If wed beaten Linfield in the semi last year the final was to be played at the cross. It doesnt necessarily have to be Tolka
The original ruling was definitely Tolka or Windsor
The original ruling was definitely Tolka or Windsor
Fair enough but if it was changed last year, Im sure it can be this year too. In the EL though Tolka probably is the best bet as it'l definitley be neutral
Celdrog
17/04/2008, 11:45 PM
Fair enough but if it was changed last year, Im sure it can be this year too. In the EL though Tolka probably is the best bet as it'l definitley be neutral
It changed before the semi finals last year. If Linfeld got to the final it was Windsor. If Cork got to the final it was Turners Cross. Home advantage given before the finalists were decided. We were playing an away match regardless. (Not that it mattered in the end:D)
GavinZac
18/04/2008, 8:14 AM
It changed before the semi finals last year. If Linfeld got to the final it was Windsor. If Cork got to the final it was Turners Cross. Home advantage given before the finalists were decided. We were playing an away match regardless. (Not that it mattered in the end:D)
Well they couldn't very well host the final in your kip, now could they? Talk about an embarrassment.
KUFCMan
18/04/2008, 10:19 AM
When Is The Game Between St James Gate And Carrick Being Played,tonite Or Tomorrow?
Sheridan
18/04/2008, 10:33 AM
FAI site has it down for tomorrow at the Iveagh Grounds, 7 pm kick-off.
harps1954
18/04/2008, 10:35 AM
What I hate about the Cup is that they schedule the semis for a weekend that already has league games. Why?
I've noticed they do this in other countries too. Or people stupid or what?
Not this year. No Premier Division fixtures scheduled for any round of the Cup, including the semi-finals. First Division fixture have been scheduled for the same weekend as the quarter-finals and semi-finals though.
Also, I never remember FAI Cup semi-finals being two-legged. They were always played in neutral venues up to the mid-eighties and I though it was just a draw after that like any other round. Could be wrong though.
Also, I never remember FAI Cup semi-finals being two-legged. They were always played in neutral venues up to the mid-eighties and I though it was just a draw after that like any other round. Could be wrong though.
It was two legs when we lost to Derry in the 88 semi.
Dodge
18/04/2008, 10:52 AM
Also, I never remember FAI Cup semi-finals being two-legged. They were always played in neutral venues up to the mid-eighties and I though it was just a draw after that like any other round. Could be wrong though.
You are. Our Semi Finals in 1986 and 1988 (v Waterford and Dundalk respectively) were definitely two legged
Sheridan
18/04/2008, 10:55 AM
They were two-legged from 1987 to 1989 I think. Largely because the 1983 semis alone consisted of seven (!!) games. In typical FAI fashion, there was no provision made for extra-time or away goals in the two-legged era, and both the first set of two-legged semi-finals were drawn and required play-offs at neutral grounds anyway (thus a system designed to truncate the number of matches ended up prolonging it to three times the minimum number under the previous system.)
red bellied
18/04/2008, 11:42 AM
They were two-legged from 1987 to 1989 I think. Largely because the 1983 semis alone consisted of seven (!!) games. In typical FAI fashion, there was no provision made for extra-time or away goals in the two-legged era, and both the first set of two-legged semi-finals were drawn and required play-offs at neutral grounds anyway (thus a system designed to truncate the number of matches ended up prolonging it to three times the minimum number under the previous system.)
Third game between Sligo Rovers and Shamock Rovers in 1987
was played in the Showgrounds after the two legs ended one one on aggregate. Shams scored in the last minute of extra time to win one nil. Larkin the scorer I think.
Dodge
18/04/2008, 12:03 PM
They were two-legged from 1987 to 1989 I think.
It was used at least as early as 1986 (Battle of the Camac year...)
red bellied
18/04/2008, 12:07 PM
It was used at least as early as 1986 (Battle of the Camac year...)
There was murder at that game, remember watching it on the Sunday Sports progamme.
TonyD
18/04/2008, 12:17 PM
There was murder at that game, remember watching it on the Sunday Sports progamme.
Ssh. Some Herring journo will probably read that, and it'll be all over the front page this evening.
"RIOTS AT INCHICORE GAME"
The fact that it was in 1986 will be buried somewhere in the 2nd or third paragraph of the "story"
BohDiddley
18/04/2008, 3:05 PM
Does anyone else agree that its a very unfair advantage to be drawn away in the FAI Cup semi final?
Verrry unfair!
I see that the RDS has been rejected on the grounds of remoteness. The question has to be asked, remoteness from where?
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