Tardelli to have a look at Saints trio [Archive]

Shedender81

15/04/2008, 1:47 PM

fFolks... Is just to keep the Eircom League lads quite.... Roddy Collins was spot on last night on MNS .... None good enough in the League.

Gamble , Fahey are good players but need to play at a higher level .. Two vital aspects of international football are a devilish first touch and concentration . EL is a decent standard and teams are improving.. but good enough for a regular spot in the Irish set up... Not yet

gustavo

15/04/2008, 1:58 PM

.. Two vital aspects of international football are a devilish first touch and concentration

We'd have to get rid of half the current squad if that was true

shakermaker1982

15/04/2008, 1:59 PM

We'd have to get rid of half the current squad if that was t4rue

three quarters surely....:D

Dodge

15/04/2008, 3:15 PM

Gamble , Fahey are good players but need to play at a higher level .. Two vital aspects of international football are a devilish first touch and concentration
I guarantee you Fahey's touch is better than most of the midfielders there

And I'm not saying he's good enough either

livehead1

15/04/2008, 3:19 PM

I guarantee you Fahey's touch is better than most of the midfielders there

And I'm not saying he's good enough either

I remember a lad i played football with for a few years called Ben Hutchinson. He was outstanding, he had pace, power, and a great touch. I watched the same player a few weeks ago playing for Celtic reserves and his touch was terrible and he was shown up. I think the level you are playing at will have a great impact on how good one's touch is. If Fahey was playing at a higher level perhaps he may look like Hutchinson did against Rangers.

GavinZac

15/04/2008, 3:26 PM

I remember a lad i played football with for a few years called Ben Hutchinson. He was outstanding, he had pace, power, and a great touch. I watched the same player a few weeks ago playing for Celtic reserves and his touch was terrible and he was shown up. I think the level you are playing at will have a great impact on how good one's touch is. If Fahey was playing at a higher level perhaps he may look like Hutchinson did against Rangers.

So, once again, "blah blah blah ELOI not good enough, blah blah blah". Let the man do his job.

drinkfeckarse

15/04/2008, 3:30 PM

I remember a lad i played football with for a few years called Ben Hutchinson. He was outstanding, he had pace, power, and a great touch. I watched the same player a few weeks ago playing for Celtic reserves and his touch was terrible and he was shown up. I think the level you are playing at will have a great impact on how good one's touch is. If Fahey was playing at a higher level perhaps he may look like Hutchinson did against Rangers.

Don't get that at all. You either have a good touch or you don't. The man marking you should have no bearing on whether the balls sticks to your boot or not.

Dodge

15/04/2008, 3:42 PM

Don't get that at all. You either have a good touch or you don't. The man marking you should have no bearing on whether the balls sticks to your boot or not.
Spot on.

Examples of his touch here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPv-OIpsI1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2mSDqzQ3qU&feature=related

livehead1

15/04/2008, 3:45 PM

So, once again, "blah blah blah ELOI not good enough, blah blah blah". Let the man do his job.

I'm not saying that!!!

Although I would be extremely surprised if any of them are up to it unfortunately.

livehead1

15/04/2008, 3:48 PM

Spot on.

Examples of his touch here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPv-OIpsI1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2mSDqzQ3qU&feature=related

great strikes

NeilMcD

15/04/2008, 3:57 PM

Don't get that at all. You either have a good touch or you don't. The man marking you should have no bearing on whether the balls sticks to your boot or not.

Yeah but if you are being closed down it is a lot harder to control the game and if the game is a lot quicker your weaknesses become exposed. One just has to look at Michael Carrick. He looks a quality player in the Premiership great first tough etc. But he finds it hard to get space and create space in a much tighter midfield at World Cups and Champions League level.

Fahey is very good player in the EL probably the best in my view and it would be interesting to have a look at him in the Ireland squad.

Flawless

15/04/2008, 3:58 PM

Imo Fahey is the only one in Ireland at the minute thats worth a look!

livehead1

15/04/2008, 4:00 PM

Yeah but if you are being closed down it is a lot harder to control the game and if the game is a lot quicker your weaknesses become exposed. One just has to look at Michael Carrick. He looks a quality player in the Premiership great first tough etc. But he finds it hard to get space and create space in a much tighter midfield at World Cups and Champions League level.

Fahey is very good player in the EL probably the best in my view and it would be interesting to have a look at him in the Ireland squad.

That's what I was trying to say but my grasp of the English language let me down at the vital moment :D

What I would like to ask, in the expectation of receiving sustained abuse from EL lovers on the board is, if Fahey is a very good player, which certainly seems the case from the two video clips, then why are there no English sides attempting to sign him (or are there) as this seems to be the normal course of action whenever an Irish side produce a very good player?

Dodge

15/04/2008, 4:17 PM

What I would like to ask, in the expectation of receiving sustained abuse from EL lovers on the board is, if Fahey is a very good player, which certainly seems the case from the two video clips, then why are there no English sides attempting to sign him (or are there) as this seems to be the normal course of action whenever an Irish side produce a very good player?

English did try and sign him. At one stage Aston Villa paid Arsenal £250,000 for him when he was 17

He's had his problems but IMO has been consistently brilliant for the past 2-3 years

eirebhoy

15/04/2008, 4:21 PM

Imo Fahey is the only one in Ireland at the minute thats worth a look!
This changes every few months though. Gamble is probably the only player in Ireland that always seems to be in the list of potential call ups.

micls

15/04/2008, 4:28 PM

This changes every few months though. Gamble is probably the only player in Ireland that always seems to be in the list of potential call ups.

I think Fahey has always had the quality. But what he has added is maturity. And I think for the next few years if we're calling for poeple to be called up he'l be one of them.

Flawless

15/04/2008, 8:57 PM

This changes every few months though. Gamble is probably the only player in Ireland that always seems to be in the list of potential call ups.

True enough, Roddy made a good point the other night though, if Healy was fit and playing champioship football he'd be in the squad.

sligoman

15/04/2008, 9:06 PM

Is just to keep the Eircom League lads quiteKeep them quite what?:confused:

MojoPin

15/04/2008, 11:42 PM

Spot on.

Examples of his touch here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPv-OIpsI1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2mSDqzQ3qU&feature=related

so your telling me he would have scored both those goals against manchester united?

there is a gap in standards lads dont deny it. of course the person whos marking you has a bearing on your touch if im playing in a sunday league game against 11 35 year old men my touch will be way better than if i was playing against 11 internationals

Dodge

15/04/2008, 11:47 PM

so your telling me he would have scored both those goals against manchester united?
Nope, I'm saying he has excellent touch. Look at his contro and turn v Bohs. The shot is incidental

[qoute]there is a gap in standards lads dont deny it.[/quote]
Nobody has claimed otherwise

of course the person whos marking you has a bearing on your touch if im playing in a sunday league game against 11 35 year old men my touch will be way better than if i was playing against 11 internationals
SOme players have poor touch when in space, Fahey doesn't. John O'Shea has played international and premiership football in Midfield. Without a shadow of a doubt Fahey has better touch and control than him

tetsujin1979

15/04/2008, 11:56 PM

How did the three Tardelli was there to watch play?
Anyone else stand out?

soccerc

16/04/2008, 12:08 AM

How did the three Tardelli was there to watch play?
Anyone else stand out?

Fats, Kirby in the 30 mins he was on the field, and eh Fats!

Dodge

16/04/2008, 12:22 AM

How did the three Tardelli was there to watch play?
Anyone else stand out?

Fahey won man of the match. Pretty much ran the show. Quigley tormented them all night but missed a few chances. Joe looked coola t the back

If Linfield are as good as some would have you believe, well then all 3 should be starting for Ireland. UNfortunately I think Linfield were/are shocking and its hard not to look impressive against them

Shedender81

16/04/2008, 6:52 AM

Don't get that at all. You either have a good touch or you don't. The man marking you should have no bearing on whether the balls sticks to your boot or not.

Gents is the pace on the ball... The higher the level you play.. I played GAA to a good level and soccer to an ok level.. However I was lucky to play a few games with semi-pros and pros.. one of whom captained Ireland , and when the pass the ball its like a shot from a mere mortal...

Thats were the touch comes in ! I think....

ifk101

16/04/2008, 7:28 AM

The Pats' lads are playing professional football just like the rest of the Championship players included in the 40-man squad. We really don't know how good they be at international level if they are never given the chance, as is the case with picking players playing in the Championship. I'm not saying that the Pats' lads are international standard but it annoying this lingering perception that players playing in Ireland are not good enough just because they are based in Ireland. Their qualities need to be objectively considered as, if we are to be consistently successful at international level, we need to use all resources available to us, and that means considering what LOI players can bring to the table.

BTW Lee Carsley doesn't have a "good" first touch but he fills an important role in the Everton and Ireland teams. And none of our players are named Kaka or Ronaldo so can we give over on this touch excuse as we are looking for players that can fill a role at international level and not how many goals they can score against Manchester United.

amaccann

16/04/2008, 8:34 AM

I would agree with ifk101's logic - there's no point harping on about how good / bad LoI players are if they're ostensibly not getting the chance to prove themselves on the pitch. And it's not like there isn't a glut of friendlies during the year to do this. The history of Irish teams is that of players rising above their own limitations & backgrounds, and playing with heart for their country. Players like Kilbane, Carsley et al show this. There's no reason to think this wouldn't also be the case for the Faheys and Gambles of this world.

youngirish

16/04/2008, 10:01 AM

SOme players have poor touch when in space, Fahey doesn't. John O'Shea has played international and premiership football in Midfield. Without a shadow of a doubt Fahey has better touch and control than him
There are wild elephants with better touch than JOS so hardly a glowing recommendation.

Dodge

16/04/2008, 10:32 AM

And again I'm not recommending Fahey for Ireland. I'm just saying he was qualities above some established internationals

ifk101's point is perfectly put.

Flawless

16/04/2008, 11:14 AM

To be quite honest i reckon the pats lads are as good as some of the Georgian and Bulgarian squad members, maybe even some of the montenegrans, thinking that way then they are defo worth a look!

osarusan

16/04/2008, 11:43 AM

The Pats' lads are playing professional football just like the rest of the Championship players included in the 40-man squad. We really don't know how good they be at international level if they are never given the chance, as is the case with picking players playing in the Championship. I'm not saying that the Pats' lads are international standard but it annoying this lingering perception that players playing in Ireland are not good enough just because they are based in Ireland. Their qualities need to be objectively considered as, if we are to be consistently successful at international level, we need to use all resources available to us, and that means considering what LOI players can bring to the table.

I'd agree with all this.

That said, if Trapattoni watches them and decides against them, will people accept he made the decision based on their ability?

Dodge

16/04/2008, 11:50 AM

That said, if Trapattoni watches them and decides against them, will people accept he made the decision based on their ability?

I will. Brian Kerr knew the league inside out and only picked Crowe once. The majority aren't good enough.

However when you see players who are released by Carlisle being picked ahead of some of the local lads, you must ask questions. If the management team look at the players, thats all we can ask

Kingdom

16/04/2008, 11:55 AM

English did try and sign him. At one stage Aston Villa paid Arsenal £250,000 for him when he was 17

He's had his problems but IMO has been consistently brilliant for the past 2-3 years

I was good mates with his cousin in school and college, and knew the background to his troubles at Arsenal. Not entirely his fault is all I'll say, and the man involved at the time who thought quite a lot of Fahey, is involved in the International set up now.

finnpark

16/04/2008, 11:55 AM

Roy O'Donovan is in the squad. He played like 5 games for Sunderland and he gets a call up. Says it all really. Its not about the players, its about the image of the teams they play for. If you play fro man utd ladies you have a better chance of getting selected than an eircom league player

adamcarr

16/04/2008, 12:03 PM

Dodge

16/04/2008, 12:04 PM

Roy has played 17 games for Sunderland an he was a different class in the LOI.

He was in his ****ing arse different class...

GavinZac

16/04/2008, 12:26 PM

He was in his ****ing arse different class...

20 goals in half a season :confused:

Dodge

16/04/2008, 12:39 PM

And how many in the half season before?

dynamo kerry

16/04/2008, 12:48 PM

To be quite honest i reckon the pats lads are as good as some of the Georgian and Bulgarian squad members, maybe even some of the montenegrans, thinking that way then they are defo worth a look!

I think I know what you mean - georgian lads of the same standard get to play internationally so why not our brave lads from the EL??

problem is we only have one international team and have to play our best players. It doesn't matter if our EL guys are as good as the montenegro only if they're better than the guys playing in englad.

the only way to do it really is admit the vast majority of the league isn't good enough to play at a higher level. There are exceptions and they should be considered. The problem is(I think) that the management don't think these guys are been challenged at a high enough standard often enough. Which makes it difficult for them to cope at the higher level again.

it's not that they aren't inherently 'good' enough it's the league as a whole.

there are always exceptions but I think thats approx the status quo.

ps to Dodge - re: o'donovan.. surely he was just showing improvement - he was only a young lad..he was head and shoulders above the rest that half season

finnpark

16/04/2008, 12:49 PM

Dr. Ogba

16/04/2008, 12:51 PM

excellent post dk, totally agree...

Dodge

16/04/2008, 12:54 PM

ps to Dodge - re: o'donovan.. surely he was just showing improvement - he was only a young lad..he was head and shoulders above the rest that half season

I disagree. I'm not saying he wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't a different class. Likewise Murphy. Never stood out in our league.

And I'll say it again. I don't think any LOI players are good enough to be an Irish international squad. Tardelli was at last nights game. If himself, Trap or Brady continue to monitor the local lads, nobody can have any qualms with their selections

Kingdom

16/04/2008, 1:06 PM

I disagree. I'm not saying he wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't a different class. Likewise Murphy. Never stood out in our league.

And I'll say it again. I don't think any LOI players are good enough to be an Irish international squad. Tardelli was at last nights game. If himself, Trap or Brady continue to monitor the local lads, nobody can have any qualms with their selections

Nope and with the Summer season there can be no excuses either.
One of the issues I have of the whole debate is that its one thing saying "x is great" or "y is crap" but proposals have to be put into perspective. There are 2/3 maybe 4 problem positions in our first 11, nevermind the squad! We have a serious issue at Left full, centre back, right midfield and to a lesser extent centre midfield.
I would like the followers of the league to propose players for those positions that would be capable of at least filling a squad place. That way we could at least compare like with like and evaluate whether Joxer Kelly or Keith Fahey are more worthy of a squad place than Sean Scannell, or say Glenn Whelan?
Something I just thought of there. Would it be appropriate to compare Fahey with Andy Reid? I'd warn anyone who views Fahey as being a reject to discount those theories. I know for fact that he asked to leave Arsenal (similar to McShane at United) due to Wengers purchasing (or attempted signing) of every top underage international midfielder at the time. Call it disillusioned if you will.

dynamo kerry

16/04/2008, 1:06 PM

He certainly hasn't started 17 premiership games, I doubt that he has even played in 17 premiership games. 0 goals and golden oldie David Connoly also gets a call up. Brady doesn't eircom league players

NI had 3 Irish League players playing in their last win and they are ranked higher than us, while the EL is ranked higher than the IL

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=47075

started 5 played in 17 altogether. no goals though - you're right there.

who are the players in the senior squad from the irish league. I know they had a few in the u21s?

I know a lot of their squad are at clubs like scunthorpe, doncaster etc

ifk101

16/04/2008, 1:09 PM

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=47075

started 5 played in 17 altogether. no goals though - you're right there.

who are the players in the senior squad from the irish league. I know they had a few in the u21s?

No offence Dynamo Kerry but the Irish League is a different kettle of fish altogether.

finnpark

16/04/2008, 1:17 PM

[url]

who are the players in the senior squad from the irish league. I know they had a few in the u21s?

Gault, Thompson and Manus.

dynamo kerry

16/04/2008, 1:25 PM

No offence Dynamo Kerry but the Irish League is a different kettle of fish altogether.

I'm not sure what you mean.... I'm suggesting that players from the irish league being in NI 's squad is meaningless as they have a heavy percentage of players from smaller 'less good' sides. As such it's no so impressive to have players from their own league.

do you agree or disagree and why?

finnpark

16/04/2008, 1:32 PM

from smaller 'less good' sides.

But these players have outperformed the ROI team over the past 5 years

Like I said its better to play for Man Utd ladies than an eircom league side

geysir

16/04/2008, 1:39 PM

Tardelli has gone on record as saying that if a player is good enough then he is good enough to be called up, regardless of the level of competition he plays at.
He has gone to the game, observed the players in question, lets wait and see.
I'd hope he would attend a few more LOI games.

ifk101

16/04/2008, 1:45 PM

I'm not sure what you mean.... I'm suggesting that players from the irish league being in NI 's squad is meaningless as they have a heavy percentage of players from smaller 'less good' sides. As such it's no so impressive to have players from their own league.

do you agree or disagree and why?

I just think we should put out the best side regardless of who they play or what league they play in. If the new management come to the conclusion (after an objective consideration) that no LOI players are good enough for the international team then so be it - after all we all want to see the team win matches and to do so we need to put out our strongest side. I can't comment on the NI situation but there is a core of professional clubs in the LOI that potentially can provide players for the international squad and I think the future development of the league would be helped if it was known that league players are being considered for the international team.