Ian Harte

[Donal81]

Has Harte's absence affected any of the Irish team's performances? Defensively and offensively? I'm not making a case for my argument, I'm asking a genuine question, if anyone can remember any examples. I can think of a few times where I thought that I'd love to see the bloke lining up for a free kick but other than that, I can't remember thinking that we missed him too much.

[carnstien]

Look, all I'm saying is that he deserves to at least be in the squad and is an option. He's a better footballer than some of our squad players at the moment and he can LB, LMF, and even at a push CB.

CENTRE BACK!!!!!!!

You are off you head. The only place I would trust Harte to play in any team is left midfield. He is a good crosser and a decent finisher but defencively he is a disaster. Thats why I think he should have remodeled himself as a midfielder years ago.

[Irish_Praha]

He's too slow to play LMF. If he's finding it difficult to get into the squad as a LB he would find it near impossible to be included at LMF. Duff, A. Reid and Kilbane would all be ahead of him and all 3 of these players have recently performed better than O'Shea or Mabury, who are keeping him out at the moment.

[Kevin77]

My tuppence worth

Harte was rubbish as a centre half under Mick. Moved to left back and was a decent enough player. Confidence was shot to bits in the World Cup and he was poor.

He lacks pace and has a poor positional sense. He is very good going forward, has a decent shot and excellent delivery at free kicks and corner kicks.

His commitment to the cause was never in question either.

I would have him in the squad ahead of Alan Maybury - tough call as Maybury is fully committed and has done ok for us. However Harte is playing at a higher level and has more to offer.

I would only play Harte at left back if O'Shea and Finnan were unavailable OR here is where I think he provides an option - if we are chasing a game. Decent delivery on set pieces is key (look at Bolton) and I would bring him on for that. Ours is not good enough at the moment.

You are 100 percent correct. Agree with everything you said.

[skbio_toronto]

George Graham..one of the best defensive coaches around at the time,I reckon he had a valid point in not playing Hartey.

Good call. George Graham is probably the best defensive minded coach (still) in the English game today. Does'nt say much about English managers.

I personally feel that Ian Harte does merit a place ont he current Irish squad. Cause I see it, it comes down to a choice between himself and Alan Maybury as 3rd choice LB behind John-O' and Finnan (who also backs up at RB).

Who offers you more? A workaday right sided left full back playing in the SPL. Or a defensively suspect left sided full back with quality distribution and an enviable scoring record playing in the Primera Liga.

I'd go for the latter.

SKBIO-TOR

[skbio_toronto]

Has Harte's absence affected any of the Irish team's performances? Defensively and offensively? I'm not making a case for my argument, I'm asking a genuine question, if anyone can remember any examples. I can think of a few times where I thought that I'd love to see the bloke lining up for a free kick but other than that, I can't remember thinking that we missed him too much.
Not that its a big deal or anything. But I definately reckon that Harte is a better distributor of possesion than John O' Shea from the left full back position.

Forget about the penalty miss and remember Harte's distribution against Spain in the World Cup. Absolutley top drawer, it was. That was a high point but generally, yeah, I reckon Harte has a better range of passing than O' Shea.

John-O' from what I've seen of him in the green is the most prone of the back 4 for giving away possession. Not a huge amount mind, but enough to say that Harte's a better distibutor.

In most if not every other category, John-O' has the edge.

SKBIO-TOR

[Superhoops]

.......but too slow to get back to defend,which would be a weakness
Spot on Dav.

Anyone looking at the Real Madrid v Levante game tonight only has to look at the goals scored by Beckham and Owen to see Harte's defensive weaknesses. Full backs have got to be able to defend, Harte can't, end of story!

[eirebhoy]

Aye, judging by his performances against Depor and Madrid he still seems his same old self. Certainly hasn't improved dramatically.

[Donal81]

Didn't see the Levante game but it doesn't surprise me. I'm sure he's a decent bloke and never seemed to be the club-before-country kind of a player, he always wanted to play. This doesn't mean that he has to be called up. Harte is a good passer and scored plenty of times from free-kicks. Since Irwin and Staunton's departure - and Harte's absence - we've lost any edge from free kicks, although maybe Andy Reid is going to change this...

Basically, I don't think this is enough of a reason to call up Harte again. He's won loads of caps and has never regularly impressed. I've no beef with the chap being called up but I don't think he should be an automatic selection. If he had played well over his 50 or so caps, then he would be.

Funny, people were baying for the chap's blood a few months ago. Irish fans are a fickle bunch...

[Éanna]

i only saw the goals from the real game, but aren't people alays saying David beckham can't get past a player? Well he did. None other than our Ian left trailing in his wake for beckham's goal. Which just about sums up his worth

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Would it be fair to say that our 3 best free-takers arent in the squad anymore? ie Hartey, Stephen Reid and Lee Carsley.

[eirebhoy]

Would it be fair to say that our 3 best free-takers arent in the squad anymore? ie Hartey, Stephen Reid and Lee Carsley.
Duffer's just as good as them all but doesn't take direct free kicks because of confidence AFAIK. Kavanagh is also a great free kick taker but his weren't the best against Brazil.

[thejollyrodger]

after seeing Hearte against Real and Deportivo, I wouldnt be so quick to get on the phone for a call up.

[De Town]

Would it be fair to say that our 3 best free-takers arent in the squad anymore? ie Hartey, Stephen Reid and Lee Carsley.

Carsley :eek: Yes, he scored a great goal against Newcastle but thats the first time I have ever seen him do it. :confused:

[Plastic Paddy]

I'm getting déjà vu here. Mister Carsley has his own thread. Any more of this and I may be forced to moderate. :eek: Whatever that entails. :D

:D PP

[Pat O' Banton]

Maybe back in the squad for the Portugal game, ahead of Maybury, but I certainly would not have him in the starting line up for competitive games if O' Shea was fit - and I don't even rate O' Shea.
Lets not forget that in the world cup Ireland twice had to put Kilbane at left back because Harte was playing so poorly (one of these was at Half Time against Saudi Arabia - the worst team in the tournamment.) However it maybe worth seeing how the experiance of Spain has changed him in February.

[kezman15]

Can anyone tell a concerned aussie why Ian Harte isnt in the irish national team? If he took up Australian residence, he would be in the starting team easily as our defence would struggle to contain a Norwich attack

[Eirambler]

Because he's too slow and not a good enough defender.

His passing and free kick abilities cover up the fact that he's otherwise basically crap.

I was watching highlights of Ireland v Portugal from the 2002 qualifiers recently, and he seemed to be the cause of almost every chance Portugal created. He was awful at the world cup as well, although to be fair he was carrying an injury.

Even though we dont have any other naturally left footed options there, we're still better off with O'Shea or Finnan at LB than Harte.

[Stuttgart88]

Did anyone see Ipswich vs Stoke on TV yesterday? I couldn't watch it but would have liked to seen how Clive Clarke played. Of the little I've seen of him I've been impressed and think he could yet be the man for left-back.

wrt Harte, it's clear that his delivery has something to offer but his all round game just isn't up to it. With Steven Reid & McGeady both playing well at the moment I can see either of these taking the RHM spot with Finnan filling in LB until a clear candidate takes over.

[macdermesser]

Can anyone tell a concerned aussie why Ian Harte isnt in the irish national team? If he took up Australian residence, he would be in the starting team easily as our defence would struggle to contain a Norwich attack

No disrespect to you but this has been debated to death. He's probably good enough to get into the squad, but Finnan and O Shea .. Kilbane all could play that position and probably do a better job.

[livehead1]

Can anyone tell a concerned aussie why Ian Harte isnt in the irish national team? If he took up Australian residence, he would be in the starting team easily as our defence would struggle to contain a Norwich attack
because he's sh*t.

[Adrianovic]

Can anyone tell a concerned aussie why Ian Harte isnt in the irish national team? If he took up Australian residence, he would be in the starting team easily as our defence would struggle to contain a Norwich attack

Contained the Brazilians and the French OK...

Ade

[Fergie's Son]

Friendlies my friend, friendlies.

[thejollyrodger]

I think this has been done and dusted. Hearte looked great when he first went to Spain, but there were a few matches (like the one against Real Madrid) where he was caught with complete lack of pace and little vision.


I thought he should have got a call up when he first started off in Spain but now think Kerr was right.

[Adrianovic]

Friendlies my friend, friendlies.

Taxi for Fergie's Son!

France was a World Cup qualifier. :p

I don't like the way friendlies are played down whenever it suits an argument, the Brazilians player their best players and there was some excellent defending in that game I seem to remember... Andy O`Brien being one of the most notable players.

Ade

[pineapple stu]

Taxi for Fergie's Son!

France was a World Cup qualifier. :p

Tazi for Adrianovic!

Harte wasn't even in the squad for the France (http://www.rsssf.com/tables/2006q-det.html) game, let alone the team! :p Didn't play against Brazil (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesf/friend-intres2004.html) either!

I think he's better than Maybury, and no worse than O'Shea; thought he was worth a call-up when he moved to Spain, but then I assume Kerr's basing his decision not to call him up on having seen him rather than picking names out of a hat at random, so if Kerr's happy nothaving him in the squad, I'm not going to complain really.

[Fergie's Son]

Taxi for Fergie's Son!

France was a World Cup qualifier. :p

I don't like the way friendlies are played down whenever it suits an argument, the Brazilians player their best players and there was some excellent defending in that game I seem to remember... Andy O`Brien being one of the most notable players.

Ade

Er...no. Harte didn't play against France in Paris. I was at the match and I can't recall seeing him there :confused:

Last time we played the French in WC qualifiers it was in 1986 (I believe, I could be wrong). Harte probably wasn't up to much then but he probably ran faster.

[pineapple stu]

Er...no. Harte didn't play against France in Paris. I was at the match and I can't recall seeing him there :confused:
Surely if you were at the match...you'd have been drunk...and not recalling too much! QED! :D You're not gone mad, though...he definitely didn't play. Last time we played France was '89 - Andy Townsend's debut, 0-0 - before that, the '82 qualifers.

[harry crumb]

Harte isn't good enough. Hes too slow.

[kezman15]

Remember ireland vs australia, ireland down 1-0, harte comes off the bench, creates two chances for two goals. Noticed when harte was dropped, ireland went through a form slump......Go the aussies

[pineapple stu]

Noticed when harte was dropped, Ireland went through a form slump......Go the Aussies
Since the Australia game, Ireland have only lost once in ten friendlies and four competitive games, including draws against Brazil and France and wins against the Czechs and Romania. That one defeat was against Nigeria two days after playing in Lansdowne with a seriously depleted squad. Hope our slump continues!

[livehead1]

Nuff sed

[eirebhoy]

Contained the Brazilians and the French OK...

Ade
When kezman15 said "as our defence would struggle to contain a Norwich attack" he meant Australia's defence.

pineapple stu, Fergie's Son: Adrianovic never said Harte played against France, or Brazil for that matter.

thejollyrodger - You must have read the man's name hundreds of times yet you persist in spelling it wrong.


:rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

When kezman15 said "as our defence would struggle to contain a Norwich attack" he meant Australia's defence.

pineapple stu, Fergie's Son: Adrianovic never said Harte played against France, or Brazil for that matter.

Alas, I must correct you back - Adrianovic goes on to state that the France game was a World Cup qualifier - unless Australia played France in a qualifier recently (which they didn't - Confederations Cup in 2001 was the last time they met competitively), he meant Ireland's game with France. Also, he subsequently refers to the Brazil game and Andy O'Brien's performance, which means he was talking about the Irish games. Which means that his original post "Contained the Brazilians and the French OK..." can only have inflected the reference to Harte in Kezman's post, not the Aussies.

Either that, or he wasn't very clear saying what he was saying...! :p

[eirebhoy]

Adrianovic thought kezman was talking about Ireland when he slated the defense, thus stating that we held the French and Brazilian's.

[Adrianovic]

I was right in what I said, Ireland's defence is fit to hold the French and the Brazilians off, France was a World Cup qualifier..... I didn't see where Australia came into it all, only after reading it 3 times have I got that bit. Sorry about that lads.

The initial criticism by Kezman15 concerned Ireland's defence, not the abilities of Ian Harte.

I apologise for sounding a bit pedantic in all of this.

Ade

[Fergie's Son]

No apologies necessary. I misunderstood your initial post. Harte still isn't good enough for Ireland though.

[Adrianovic]

No apologies necessary. I misunderstood your initial post. Harte still isn't good enough for Ireland though.

Hehe after all that I agree with you.

I think he's probably good enough to get into the squad though, I'd just be much happier with Steve Finnan or Josh at left back. I'd like to have a look at Clive Clark one day too.

He's the captain of Stoke at a relatively young age and I've seen him a few times and been impressed. Can play left back, centre back or defensive midfield. Not really better than any of the other options in all honesty, but might be better than Maybury or Harte.

Ade

[Superhoops]

I'd like to have a look at Clive Clark one day too.

He's the captain of Stoke at a relatively young age and I've seen him a few times and been impressed. Can play left back, centre back or defensive midfield. Not really better than any of the other options in all honesty, but might be better than Maybury or Harte.
Clive Clarke will be 25 this year (this month, I think). He has been around for a while with Stoke, having moved there from Ireland. He has been a regular in the Stoke team since 1999.

Having seen him play several times at U-21, he only ever looked ordinary. If he had been top drawer, he would have moved from Stoke before now and would have made the breakthrough in the national senior side by now. I think he only played in the Unity Cup last summer because of injuries.

No doubt he is a good club pro at Stoke and is playing in a league where he is good enough for the standard. Unfortunately he is not top flight and certainly not the answer to our left back problem.

Although he is a right sided player, our brightest young prospect as a full back is Stephen Kelly of Tottenham.

[pineapple stu]

I was right in what I said, Ireland's defence is fit to hold the French and the Brazilians off, France was a World Cup qualifier..... I didn't see where Australia came into it all, only after reading it 3 times have I got that bit. Sorry about that lads.

Ah, a completely different meaning again! I assumed that seeing as Kezman had been talking about Australia, that's who he meant by "our", hence the confusion. Ah well! Sorry 'bout that... As Adrianovic said, though, doesn't change the points made.

[Kevin77]

Harte hasn't even made the bench for Levante's last two matches. Anyone know why? Is he injured, suspended or dropped?

[finlma]

Harte hasn't even made the bench for Levante's last two matches. Anyone know why? Is he injured, suspended or dropped?

I think he's suspended. He's picked up a good few yellow cards since the season started.

[Kevin77]

Fair enough. I thought they might have realised why Leeds got rid of him!

[Slash/ED]

He got injured in the warm up for the Valencia game, that's why he missed that one anyway

[roboyle]

Yeah, he's been injured for the last few weeks... according to this article, he won't be an option either way for the Portugal match: more (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=321565&cc=5739)

[GalwayFrancis]

Is he injured, suspended or dropped?

HARTE TO GO UNDER THE KNIFE

Former Leeds defender Ian Harte, now
with Spanish club Levante, will be out
of action for the next six weeks after
being told he needs surgery on a groin
injury.

The defender, who sustained the injury
in December, will undergo the operation
in Manchester tomorrow.

'He has already had surgery on this
area which makes it easy and it will be
similar to treating a hernia,' said
Levants doctor Josen Nebot.

Harte will therefore be unavailable for
Ireland's friendly with Portugal on
February 9.

[Aldini98]

because he's sh*t.

Agree :)

[soylent green]

He got injured in the warm up for the Valencia game, that's why he missed that one anyway

He didn't even make the warm up. I can vouch that he didn't even travel on the team bus to the Metsalla stadium.

[dr_peepee]

Superhoops... That's a very narrow minded assessment of a players potential.
There are plenty of players, especially defenders, who don't taste premiership football until their mid 20's, but greatly benifit from consistent football for extended periods in the lower divisions..

Steve Finnan springs to mind imediately. And Cunningham wasn't far off 25 when he left Millwall if memory serves me correct.

I have been aware of Clarke since Liverpool reportedly showed an interest in him as a teen. And as regards a move to the top flight, in the independant on Sunday he said that he turned down a move to Sunderland a couple of Seasons ago because he felt he'd get more football at Stoke due to Micheal Grey's presence at the club. I've not seen much of him as a player but it's fair to say that there isn't many defenders at his age with as much first team football to show for it. I believe he'll leave Stoke sooner rather than later judging by his tone in the interview.

[Superhoops]

Superhoops... That's a very narrow minded assessment of a players potential.
There are plenty of players, especially defenders, who don't taste premiership football until their mid 20's, but greatly benifit from consistent football for extended periods in the lower divisions..

Steve Finnan springs to mind imediately. And Cunningham wasn't far off 25 when he left Millwall if memory serves me correct.

I have been aware of Clarke since Liverpool reportedly showed an interest in him as a teen. And as regards a move to the top flight, in the independant on Sunday he said that he turned down a move to Sunderland a couple of Seasons ago because he felt he'd get more football at Stoke due to Micheal Grey's presence at the club. I've not seen much of him as a player but it's fair to say that there isn't many defenders at his age with as much first team football to show for it. I believe he'll leave Stoke sooner rather than later judging by his tone in the interview.
I hope you are right and that he does blossom.

However Clarke's own comment about Michael Grey at Sunderland says it all. If Clarke did not believe he was better than Grey and would not get into the team ahead of Grey, then he can hardly have had confidence in his own ability.

He would probably do a steady enough job for us at senior level but I fear his lack of experience against quality wide players would find him out when it matters.

BTW, I think that you will find that Kenny Cunningham was 23 when he left Millwall for Wimbledon.