Ian Harte

[Murfinator]

I think its a bit unfair to bring up Hartes set pieces as a sort of saving grace kind of quality like with Delap. The reality is Ward is the LB for the team with the worst defence in the premiership, Harte is the LB for the team with the best defence in the championship, he's matured and improved a lot as a defender in the past couple of seasons to the extent where I'd have no hesitation in saying Harte is a better defender than Ward if you're tunnel visioning that one attribute. Harte is also a better offensive player with a magnificent bonus of being a great set piece taker, but if you're purely looking at him through Trap goggles he should still be starting for us based on defensive merits.

Although I agree Kelly/JOS sounds more attractive than either if we're hellbent on a dedicated LB it has to be Harte over Ward.

[Charlie Darwin]

Wasn't Harte on the League One team of the year the previous season, when he banged in 20+ goals from centre half for Carlisle?

[DeLorean]

Yes he was.

[dr_peepee]

Jayzus. For all his knockers, he's been acknowledged in the PFA Teams for the Premier League, The Championship and League 1..

[Stuttgart88]

Kind of says more about Irish keyboard warriors than him I suppose.

[Scooby Doo]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7701852/Harte-fears-for-Ireland-career

One or two eyebrow-raising quotes from Harte here. Seems quite bitter at being overlooked by Trap. Reiterates the 'Trap didn't know I was Irish' thing. Also has a pop at the second/third generation Irish in the squad. Not cool, Ian!

"I am Irish as well and there are a lot of players in the Irish squad that are not even Irish. For me I have played 67 times and I love pulling on the green shirt."

[DannyInvincible]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7701852/Harte-fears-for-Ireland-career

One or two eyebrow-raising quotes from Harte here. Seems quite bitter at being overlooked by Trap. Reiterates the 'Trap didn't know I was Irish' thing. Also has a pop at the second/third generation Irish in the squad. Not cool, Ian!

"I am Irish as well and there are a lot of players in the Irish squad that are not even Irish. For me I have played 67 times and I love pulling on the green shirt."

Unfortunately, somewhat reminiscent of the "Them foreigners, coming over here and taking our jobs!" mindset. When people feel a sense of victimhood or being hard done-by - and you could say it's justified in Harte's case (Trap not even knowing who he was!) - such conditions are the breeding ground for rash opinions like that. Not that he should be blaming the second or third generation Irish who Trap has favoured in overlooking him, obviously.

[Olé Olé]

With those type of comments it's fairly clear that Harte knows his Irish career is over. Speaking about potential squad members and doubting their Irishness probably wouldn't go down too well with English-born players like Walters, Green and Cox given the level of their dedication to the jersey since they've stepped in. Harte said the other day that he won't be going out of his way to watch any of our games at the Euro's. How's that for a level of patriotism?

It seems Harte qualifies any comment he makes about the national squad with the old 'Trap didn't even know I was Irish'-line which makes Trap seem like an imbecile, so how could he possibly pick up on any defensive frailties?

Looking back over the list of left-backs who have worn the jersey since Harte left the scene, it's difficult to say who he merited inclusion ahead of. Ward and Clark have been playing Premiership football, while Kilbane has been ever-present. Not to mention Wilson. Damien Delaney has been there to cover centre half and left back. Maybe Harte could look back to 2009 when Eddie Nolan was picking up caps, but even at that Nolan was playing a level above Harte.

[Scooby Doo]

Unfortunately, somewhat reminiscent of the "Them foreigners, coming over here and taking our jobs!" mindset. When people feel a sense of victimhood or being hard done-by - and you could say it's justified in Harte's case (Trap not even knowing who he was!) - such conditions are the breeding ground for rash opinions like that. Not that he should be blaming the second or third generation Irish who Trap has favoured in overlooking him, obviously.
I agree but even if his complaint, that he is not being picked as a result of there being too many 'foreigners' in the team, was a fair one (it is not in my opinion), it holds no weight at present really because there are no 2G or 3G players in the squad in his position! St Ledger plays at CB. Kelly, Ward and O'Shea are our full-backs - all born and reared in Ireland, as was Wilson who is playing consistently well at FB at a higher level than Harte and still isn't picked!

Harte is talking through his arse and while I can totally understand a player looking on enviously at the Euro preperations, especially after he himself has has a good season, he is just coming across as bitter and petulant with these comments. He had a great run in the Irish team, played in a WC etc.
At this point, his inclusion over Ward or Kelly, for example, would be disgraceful.

[Irwin3]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7701852/Harte-fears-for-Ireland-career

One or two eyebrow-raising quotes from Harte here. Seems quite bitter at being overlooked by Trap. Reiterates the 'Trap didn't know I was Irish' thing. Also has a pop at the second/third generation Irish in the squad. Not cool, Ian!

"I am Irish as well and there are a lot of players in the Irish squad that are not even Irish. For me I have played 67 times and I love pulling on the green shirt."

Brian McDermott won't be happy. Harte's lucky he got the contract in the bag already!

[DannyInvincible]

I agree but even if his complaint, that he is not being picked as a result of there being too many 'foreigners' in the team, was a fair one (it is not in my opinion), it holds no weight at present really because there are no 2G or 3G players in the squad in his position! St Ledger plays at CB. Kelly, Ward and O'Shea are our full-backs - all born and reared in Ireland, as was Wilson who is playing consistently well at FB at a higher level than Harte and still isn't picked!

Harte is talking through his arse and while I can totally understand a player looking on enviously at the Euro preperations, especially after he himself has has a good season, he is just coming across as bitter and petulant with these comments. He had a great run in the Irish team, played in a WC etc.
At this point, his inclusion over Ward or Kelly, for example, would be disgraceful.

More-or-less in agreement with everything you say there. He may have a right to feel disappointed, even mildly insulted, that Trap wasn't aware of who he was, but to try and attribute some blame for his exclusion to Irish players he views as "foreigners" isn't correct, no matter how one wishes to read it. Trap selects the team, so if Harte did have a valid case for inclusion, it's Trap he should be blaming. But as you say, his case for inclusion isn't even clear-cut anyway. Nor is anyone in the Irish team a "foreigner". What is clear is that he's expressing a personal grudge or jealousy in a overly rash manner.

[Junior]

A few more quotes like this and we will be able to merge the Ian Harte, Stephen Ireland and Brian Kerr threads.....

[Stuttgart88]

On the brink of a contract extension according to SSN.

Wasn't the "they didn't know I was Irish" thing rubbished a few years ago?

I didn't know he wasn't bothered about watching us. Any possible sympathy I might have is lost right there, not to mention the fact that there are more Irish born players in the (a) team and (b) squad than at any time in his tenure. If his argument was that he was playing left back at a higher standrad than any other Irish or Irish eligible player then I'd pay attention. Grow up Ian.

[Olé Olé]

On the brink of a contract extension according to SSN.

Wasn't the "they didn't know I was Irish" thing rubbished a few years ago?

I didn't know he wasn't bothered about watching us. Any possible sympathy I might have is lost right there, not to mention the fact that there are more Irish born players in the (a) team and (b) squad than at any time in his tenure. If his argument was that he was playing left back at a higher standrad than any other Irish or Irish eligible player then I'd pay attention. Grow up Ian.

Yeah, it was in the Independent Basically, the journo stated Harte's assertion that he won't be going out of his way to watch the national side and the journo then framed this in a very lame manner i.e. that it's a full-time job raising kids. I'll endeavour to source the article.

The thing about the higher standard is that Harte was well able to negotiate a drop down the divisions, failing to win or hold onto contracts at an array of clubs until he ended up at Carlisle. Maybe Harte should be calling out all his other doubters. He was released by Roy Keane and rejected by Mick McCarthy. Let's start with them Iano.

[Murfinator]

I am Irish as well and there are a lot of players in the Irish squad that are not even Irish.


He's correct, but its a problem for supporters to mull over and how it affects their affinity with the team. He should be getting selected for Ireland because he's the best LB we have available to us, not because he was born and brought up here (as per the FIFA rules not the only point of entry to international selection), its always a dangerous business for current players to get involved in politics.

Either way we all know Trap isn't going to select him at this stage, last year while Kilbane was ailing and we had no other LB option was the time to integrate Harte and he didn't. For better or for worse he'll be playing Ward at the Euros, I certainly don't like it but thats how it goes. Traps extension to 2016 essentially means Hartes international career is over, regardless of how well he does in the permiership.

[tricky_colour]

I think he has a good case to be considered but it's rather late in the day, he is a good passer, I believe, not
seem much of him but to be named in the championship of the season is rather impressive.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think under previous managers Harte possibly would have fitted back into the national team, but Trap's tactics basically mandate that all players be very athletic and reasonably quick, and unfortunately Ian is neither.

[geysir]

Yeah, it was in the Independent Basically, the journo stated Harte's assertion that he won't be going out of his way to watch the national side and the journo then framed this in a very lame manner i.e. that it's a full-time job raising kids. I'll endeavour to source the article.
This is one Indo article (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/harte-trap-didnt-even-know-i-was-irish-2660623.html)
where the some player in question (Reading player?) was winding up Harte and he swallowed it, hook line and sinker.

A month earlier Tardelli had been quoted, "I've seen Harte play 10 times for Reading as I was there watching Shane Long and Noel Hunt,"
"He's a good player but we have enough young players with the same quality. We are looking at players for the future.
"Harte is not that old but old for our project, even though we know he is a good player."


Perhaps we should start a thread, 'Ian Harte? is he Irish'?

[drummerboy]

The fact is Trap has a massive amount of players to consider for selection. Although Charlton had a better team, his selection was limited to about 25 players, whereas Trap could call up about 50 players. So there is bound to be a few discontented players about nowadays. Have to say I was a little disappointed by Harte's attitude. He served the country well, earning 67 caps, but in all honestly I'm sure he never really expected to be called up again, when he joined Carlisle.

[tricky_colour]

What has Carlisle got to do with it?
He plays for Reading and was in the champion ship team of the season.
I thought you picked you best players not jsut people who have never played for Carlisle.
Trap may have a massive amount of players, but how may made team of the season?
How many are being relegated not promoted?
Defenders who are used to keeping clean sheets and winning games are always useful to have in the squad
as opposed to those who are losing and letting in a hat full.

[Olé Olé]

What has Carlisle got to do with it?
He plays for Reading and was in the champion ship team of the season.
I thought you picked you best players not jsut people who have never played for Carlisle.


No, the 'Peter Murphy' rule is firmly set in stone as the cornerstone of Irish team selection policy. The rule originated when Trap neglected to call up Murphy following on from the Carlisle defender winning a cap under Stan in 2007. It was interpreted that Trap was prohibiting calling up present Carlisle players but Trap's refusal to call up Ian Harte subsequent to his departure from Carlisle is suggestive that Trap's position is that no players who carry a past or present association with Carlisle will win caps under him.

[Charlie Darwin]

Has Trap ever called up anyone from England's third division?

[theworm2345]

A month earlier Tardelli had been quoted, "I've seen Harte play 10 times for Reading as I was there watching Shane Long and Noel Hunt,"
"He's a good player but we have enough young players with the same quality. We are looking at players for the future.
"Harte is not that old but old for our project, even though we know he is a good player."
I have to say I really hate this philosophy...never looking at players over a certain age because the manager always seems to be in a rebuilding/building for the future process. If Harte will be playing for the next two years (and I assume he will) and could aid in the cause to get to Brazil there is no reason he shouldn't be selected. I don't believe in planning beyond the next World Cup or Euros in terms of player development because you never know who the manager will be or where a player will be at that point. The same thing happened with Delap, even when he was playing well enough (regardless of throw-ins) to be in the side. It is especially ridiculous when you consider Trap rarely even uses the friendlies to try out new players.


Has Trap ever called up anyone from England's third division?

Pretty sure Kilbane got called up while he was at Huddersfield last year.

[Yard of Pace]

Pretty sure Kilbane got called up while he was at Huddersfield last year.

Played for Ireland one day and flew back to play for Huddersfield the next day (although I think he just warmed the bench). Legend of a man.

[Sullivinho]

Played for Ireland one day and flew back to play for Huddersfield the next day (although I think he just warmed the bench). Legend of a man.

Indeed. I wonder what he'd make of Ian's comments.

[Serb]

The fact is Trap has a massive amount of players to consider for selection. Although Charlton had a better team, his selection was limited to about 25 players, whereas Trap could call up about 50 players. So there is bound to be a few discontented players about nowadays. Have to say I was a little disappointed by Harte's attitude. He served the country well, earning 67 caps, but in all honestly I'm sure he never really expected to be called up again, when he joined Carlisle.

He seems to have awarded himself a few extra caps. The FAI reckon he has 64 caps.

Anyway, I think Harte's attitude towards not being included is pathetic. Trap doesn't know you're Irish? Pick up the phone and let him know. Harte is not being picked in the Reading team for his defensive qualities; he knows that; everyone knows that. He has an unparalleled dead-ball delivery, almost certainly the best in the history of Irish football (Staunton might have something to say about that), but he's never been great at anything else. He's a luxury player, the kind of player that Trap has never accommodated in his time as Ireland manager.

The other point is merit. Does he even deserve a place in the squad? He doesn't really mention it other than he would like a "shout". Opinion here seems mixed, but what seems like the most logical comparison rings as the least fair in my mind: Ward is a defender in the worst defence in the Premier League, Harte is a defender in the best defence in the Championship. A defence is a unit, it lives and dies by organisation. A terrible defender can be part of a great defence if it's well organised and vice versa. Ward is a better defender, he's defensively stronger in every way. I'm happier that he'll be starting at 3.

Harte is the Ronan O'Gara of Irish football. He's one dimensional, but he's world class in that dimension. Unfortunately, dead ball delivery isn't enough to control a game of football the way O'Gara's talent can control a rugby game.

[mark12345]

I have to say I really hate this philosophy...never looking at players over a certain age because the manager always seems to be in a rebuilding/building for the future process. If Harte will be playing for the next two years (and I assume he will) and could aid in the cause to get to Brazil there is no reason he shouldn't be selected. I don't believe in planning beyond the next World Cup or Euros in terms of player development because you never know who the manager will be or where a player will be at that point. The same thing happened with Delap, even when he was playing well enough (regardless of throw-ins) to be in the side. It is especially ridiculous when you consider Trap rarely even uses the friendlies to try out new players. Pretty sure Kilbane got called up while he was at Huddersfield last year.

And this is from Harte himself: "I am Irish as well and there are a lot of players in the Irish squad that are not even Irish. For me I have played 67 times and I love pulling on the green shirt."

KOP ON IAN, you were past your best ten years ago. You are enjoying an Indian summer that's all. You are too slow for international football and the Premier League. And you're positioning was never great either. That much will be made abundantly clear next season. Kevin Kilbane was retired - you are behind him in the pecking order - so you're nowhere near the team.

[mark12345]

And this is from Harte himself: "I am Irish as well and there are a lot of players in the Irish squad that are not even Irish. For me I have played 67 times and I love pulling on the green shirt."

Playing with so called 'not even Irish' players never stopped you playing for your country, did it Mr Harte. When you make statements like this you lose all credibility.

[SkStu]

Mr. Harte does make exceedingly good mistakes.

[theworm2345]

He seems to have awarded himself a few extra caps. The FAI reckon he has 64 caps.
Could be counting his appearances in Bonner and Quinn's testimonials...not sure which the last one might be from.

[SkStu]

Would he be counting U21's or "B" caps?

[Stuttgart88]

Myabe he just got it a bit wrong?

[the bear]

knee caps?

[paul_oshea]

"It is not as if I had the pace and I lost it. It is all about being clever and getting the better of your opponent"

Ok then Ian, how do you suppose a left full with no pace can operate at international level, in this day and age? Perhaps thats why you haven't been selected you dope.

[Sullivinho]

Ian's pace and cleverness are in perfect balance.

[John83]

Ian's pace and cleverness are in perfect balance.
He'd need to be clever enough to invent a teleporter to perfectly balance his pace the last I saw of him.

[Murfinator]

Ok then Ian, how do you suppose a left full with no pace can operate at international level.

"being clever and getting the better of your opponent"

He even answered your question. :confused:

How do you think Maldini played at one of the top club sides until 40 at fullback? Secretly fitting himself with rocket boots?

[paul_oshea]

What are ye on about Murfinator? Maldini was hardly 24 with no pace, he lost pace as he got a little older but he was still quicker than harte, and he certainly had a far better brain than harte. There is no comparison between the two.

And he is also the exception rather than the rule in terms of the lenght of his playing career.

[John83]

"being clever and getting the better of your opponent"

He even answered your question. :confused:

How do you think Maldini played at one of the top club sides until 40 at fullback? Secretly fitting himself with rocket boots?
Moving to a more central role where pace was less of an issue, living off his reputation to a degree, and having started at being the best left back on the planet he continued to be good enough in a league that was in significant decline after a series of scandals and bankruptcies and huge investment in English clubs saw the steady flow of talent into Serie A start to go elsewhere.

(Are we seriously comparing Harte and Maldini? Excuse me while I fetch my most patronising pipe.)

[Kingdom]

Moving to a more central role where pace was less of an issue, living off his reputation to a degree, and having started at being the best left back on the planet he continued to be good enough in a league that was in significant decline after a series of scandals and bankruptcies and huge investment in English clubs saw the steady flow of talent into Serie A start to go elsewhere.

(Are we seriously comparing Harte and Maldini? Excuse me while I fetch my most patronising pipe.)

You left out something......

check-mate.

Bam.

[Carrigaline]

How do you think Maldini played at one of the top club sides until 40 at fullback? Secretly fitting himself with rocket boots?Maldini moved to centre back long before he reached 40.

[Closed Account 2]

His boss, Brian McDermott is in the London Evening Standard today. Says he (Brian) had Irish parents and grew up in an area of Slough that was, "a mini Ireland" (maybe Cowley or Hayes?) and he says he regrets being pushed to play underage football for the English, "I feel very Irish and I never played for Ireland. One day it would be an ambition of mine to manage Ireland..."

[CraftyToePoke]

New contract at Reading : http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17926404

O'Brien and Bruce follow O'Dea out of Leeds though.

[paul_oshea]

His boss, Brian McDermott is in the London Evening Standard today. Says he (Brian) had Irish parents and grew up in an area of Slough that was, "a mini Ireland" (maybe Cowley or Hayes?) and he says he regrets being pushed to play underage football for the English, "I feel very Irish and I never played for Ireland. One day it would be an ambition of mine to manage Ireland..."

What is nice about that piece in the standard is, its the first thing he mentions with Mihir bose. Before he is asked anything, like the other interviews, as if to rubbish talk of anything England/English related.

[geysir]

McDermott keeps a clean bootroom
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/brian-mcdermott-i-wish-id-played-for-arsene-wenger-at-arsenal-7703272.html

[Closed Account 2]

He's lost a hell of a lot of weight in the last 18 months or so... If Andy Reid had had his gastric discipline he might still be a contender for us.

[elroy]

Im struggling to think of any goals where you could say harte was at fault. I know he had a poor WC, but in the qualifying campaign he was superb.

He was a constant squad member throughout the Kerr era which now I look back at it, had some very heart breaking nights. Not such much because of defeats but because of uncharacteristic heartless Irish performances. He hasnt had a look in really since Stan took over.

[Murfinator]

He was injured for much of Stans reign, he was selected when fit I believe. He was definitely a starter away to San Marino

[tetsujin1979]

Signed a new one year deal at Reading: http://www.readingfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10306~2781995,00.html

[ArdeeBhoy]

Should have been in the squad, as cover...