View Full Version : Fines for flares and smoke canisters
celticV3
04/04/2008, 3:52 PM
After the weekend was just wondering, are we the only league where fines are implemented for stuff such as flares and smoke canisters? you never here of italian teams getting fined and they are used week in week out, and just at the weekend celtic let off a few smoke bombs and there has been no sanctions at all not even talk of any fines. so why in a smaller league where uefa are less likely to be paying attention are we getting fines of €1000 for pyro being let off?
we have been told by the F.A.I that they cannot do anything about it because it is under uefa's rules, but it seems to be a case that the F.A.I get the payment of the fines and instead of it being used to further the league it is going towards their own wages. just a shame that instead of trying to help the league they are implementing these fines because they can rather than show leniancy like other leagues seem to do
superfrank
04/04/2008, 3:54 PM
They clearly are trying to clamp down on the activity in the league and fining the clubs works best, they fell.
€1000 will hurt an el club a lot more than the likes of Italian, Scottish or other continetal clubs. This is probably why these cubs aren't fined on the continent as the leagues know it won't do much damage.
sligoman
04/04/2008, 3:56 PM
so why in a smaller league where uefa are less likely to be paying attention are we getting fines of €1000 for pyro being let off? You've probably answered yer own question there, the FAI probably think they can fine so high because Uefa aren't monitoring so closely.
celticV3
04/04/2008, 4:08 PM
thing is that clubs like lyon and rangers are getting fined for stuff that is in the media spotlight a lot more and can do a lot more damage and are not getting fined that much more than EL teams. it terrible on the part of the F.A.I that they are trying to cripple the league like this. i know it is the fans that are doing it but it should be in part with the club rather than behind the back of the clubs.
neutrino
04/04/2008, 9:54 PM
The fines for big clubs are pitiful so it's not going the make the news at all. These clubs probably are being fined but sure what's a few grand to a multi-million business.
Flares, Smoke bombs etc etc cannot be used becuase it's a law made by Government which outlaws these. Simple as that.
deecay
04/04/2008, 11:24 PM
Flares, Smoke bombs etc etc cannot be used becuase it's a law made by Government which outlaws these. Simple as that.
The goverment,those capitalist shower are a joke.Laws are they to be broke,but we cannot afford these fines
twowheelsonly
04/04/2008, 11:34 PM
The fines for big clubs are pitiful so it's not going the make the news at all. These clubs probably are being fined but sure what's a few grand to a multi-million business.
Flares, Smoke bombs etc etc cannot be used becuase it's a law made by Government which outlaws these. Simple as that.
Anybody know what that law is/states exactly?
Flares and smokebombs are not actually illegal here in themselves but what is the actual law governing their use?
Nesta99
04/04/2008, 11:43 PM
It has somthing to do with them being distress signals eg hillwalkers often carry canisters/flares in the event of needing rescue. So it is illegal so set off items or do anthing that could be considered abuse of these signals. Obviously in the context of a football match the rescue helicopter is hardly going to be dispatched for a flare/roman candle. But that is how they feature in law im led to believe.
eamo1
04/04/2008, 11:47 PM
I hate that they banned flares in E.L grounds.I use to love seeing a few of them going off at once after a goal being scored.I seen a few weeks ago Chelsea were fined £3,000 for failing to control their players.£3,000 to Chelsea is the spare change in Ambromichs back pocket after a night on the town.Fines for E.L clubs are definatly wayyyyy over the top relatively speaking.
dcfcsteve
05/04/2008, 12:56 AM
After the weekend was just wondering, are we the only league where fines are implemented for stuff such as flares and smoke canisters? you never here of italian teams getting fined and they are used week in week out, and just at the weekend celtic let off a few smoke bombs and there has been no sanctions at all not even talk of any fines. so why in a smaller league where uefa are less likely to be paying attention are we getting fines of €1000 for pyro being let off?
The Italian league barely fines for match fixing, major crowd trouble and murder, so It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't fine for flares !
We shouldn't compare ourselves to Italy for anything. Their league is heading the way English football was by the mid 1980's..
HarpoJoyce
05/04/2008, 3:21 AM
The Italian league barely fines for match fixing, major crowd trouble and murder, so It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't fine for flares !
We shouldn't compare ourselves to Italy for anything. Their league is heading the way English football was by the mid 1980's..
Well, apparently LoI supporters hang on the coat-tails of the Italian League. UEFA/EUFA does punish the Italian League for crowd misbehaviour. They prohibit fans from attending games or exclude stadiums from being used.
Internazionale FC and the Stadio Giuseppe Meazza
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/news/kind=1/newsid=120.html
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=677788.html
Over 6 grand for one incident.
New Italian (that's in Italy) laws on stadium behaviour
http://www.uefa.com/footballeurope/news/kind=2/newsid=504847.html
"Tough times for the Italian FA (©FIGC)Italy passes anti-hooligan laws
Wednesday, 7 February 2007by Paolo Menicucci
from Milan..
The Italian government has introduced new legislation aimed at combating football-related violence following the death of a police officer outside a stadium in Sicily last Friday........
...No fireworks
Another measure introduced was to make the punishment for resisting arrest a prison sentence of five-15 years. In addition, any game played in February has to take place in the afternoon, while it will be a criminal offence for fans to be in possession of fireworks or flares within 24 hours of a match, as well as at the stadium."
Press release from UEFA/EUFA on Stadium safety
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=64/newsid=309503.html
please note UEFA/EUFA invited media representatives to attend. If your local media representative (print, radio, TV, internet etc..) continue to criticise the arrangements at matches. The question did they attend this conference in Tallinn, Estonia arises. If not, why not?
Its pretty clear UEFA/EUFA hammer clubs far more severely than the FAI. If fans latch on to the SERIE A and the Azzurri (FIGC) then complying with the Italians own simple laws, will help LoI clubs from suffering domestically.
Well P.S.G pay 30,000 at the start of a season to cover the fine for flares. They are banned in every country and by UEFA and FIFA. Get over it, its not gonna change.
half_full
05/04/2008, 7:53 AM
The FAI want to create a premiership type atmosphere in this country, hence the crackdown on till roll, smoke, flares. Some people on here seem to think thats a good thing:rolleyes:
celticV3
05/04/2008, 3:07 PM
i know they are illegal and not holding my breath on that changing in the football grounds, but what i was saying is the F.A.I seem to make sure that no flares or the likes go un-noticed so they can rake in the money from the fines and say that it is all up to UEFA. i think it's a shame the organisation that is meant to be furthering the league is cashing in at every oppurtunity they can it seems
Stevo Da Gull
05/04/2008, 5:17 PM
Call me a cynic but I think it's all about getting as much money as possible back out of the clubs.
grounded
06/04/2008, 12:42 PM
There's been a major crackdown on flares and smoke in the Italian league especially after the policeman dying. Some of my mates will travel to Pisa on the 26th of April for their game against Chievo and had to provide full names and dates of birth to get tickets. That shows you which direction Italian football is heading.
Personally I think flares and smoke should be allowed under supervision. Kickers Offenbach in Germany used to have a special stand for people interested in that sort of thing. They even used to have a picture of that stand with many flares lid as a background picture on their tickets.
Shame the FAI or other governing bodies can't see how this could add to the athmosphere.
Aberdeen I believe used a smoke maschine this season which was agreed with by the club so here's hoping
Poor Student
06/04/2008, 1:53 PM
What has smoke got to do with atmosphere? It's only irritating and temporarily obstructs view of the match.
deecay
06/04/2008, 1:59 PM
What has smoke got to do with atmosphere? It's only irritating and temporarily obstructs view of the match.
Thats a thing ive noticed about UCD fans,ye havent experienced the rush of using pyro and from the outside in ye would'nt understand.We have'nt done it on the scale of other bigger groups but we still know whats its like
Poor Student
06/04/2008, 2:07 PM
Thats a thing ive noticed about UCD fans,ye havent experienced the rush of using pyro and from the outside in ye would'nt understand.
We had a fella who used to light flares and it was just a pain in the arse. As I said, smokey, irritating and just obstructs your view for a while.
deecay
06/04/2008, 2:12 PM
We had a fella who used to light flares and it was just a pain in the arse. As I said, smokey, irritating and just obstructs your view for a while.
Ok,just a huge visual affect.Definatly dosnt do anything for watching the game,smoke displays are usually down before the game
Maynard
06/04/2008, 5:41 PM
What has smoke got to do with atmosphere? It's only irritating and temporarily obstructs view of the match.
What has singing and shouting got to do with atmosphere? It only makes you hoarse and is a distraction to those around you trying to complete their sudoku puzzles.
FFS!
Poor Student
06/04/2008, 5:53 PM
What has singing and shouting got to do with atmosphere? It only makes you hoarse and is a distraction to those around you trying to complete their sudoku puzzles.
FFS!
They don't compare. Singing and chanting is the integral aspect of football atmosphere. It enhances the experience. Lighting a smoking cannister offers nothing but annoyance and obstruction. The only argument I've seen offered in favour of it is experiencing "the rush of using pyro". I got over that stage the first time I lit a match when I was five.:rolleyes:
forza rovers
06/04/2008, 7:14 PM
They don't compare. Singing and chanting is the integral aspect of football atmosphere. It enhances the experience. Lighting a smoking cannister offers nothing but annoyance and obstruction. The only argument I've seen offered in favour of it is experiencing "the rush of using pyro". I got over that stage the first time I lit a match when I was five.:rolleyes:1st of all their rubbing ignition and is that why your not aloud stand in the bowl?
deecay
06/04/2008, 7:25 PM
They don't compare. Singing and chanting is the integral aspect of football atmosphere. It enhances the experience. Lighting a smoking cannister offers nothing but annoyance and obstruction. The only argument I've seen offered in favour of it is experiencing "the rush of using pyro". I got over that stage the first time I lit a match when I was five.:rolleyes:
Stop trying to talk big,as I stated its all an visual affect.Comparing a match to a flare:o
deecay
06/04/2008, 10:42 PM
Your not allowed stand in the bowl? That has to be the worst stadium of all time. The only stand isn't even fully covered and they don't give the fans the option of standing? At least in epl grounds they have some sort of excuse for not letting people stand up but having to sit in that hole of a ground is a joke
We were told to sit and I laughed,a pity others around me wouldnt stand up to one old man telling us to sit.We sat,then moved out into the rain and stood
sligoman
06/04/2008, 11:08 PM
We were told to sit and I laughed,a pity others around me wouldnt stand up to one old man telling us to sit.We sat,then moved out into the rain and stoodI believe I was the last man standing.
deecay
07/04/2008, 12:24 AM
I believe I was the last man standing.
RoryH you and me were the last 3 im pretty sure,taught it was me last to sit
Candystripe
07/04/2008, 3:50 AM
After this they got a €3000 fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2qFFv8SZtU&NR=1
Poor Student
07/04/2008, 7:42 AM
Pavlov could have predicted the response to this one.:rolleyes: How about explaining what flares have to do with atmosphere rather than attacking me or the club I support?
dcfcsteve
07/04/2008, 9:54 AM
Flares are ridiculously over-rated in-terms of what they add to atmosphere, and are frankly a hazard in crowded places. End of story.
Flares are also banned by UEFA and FIFA. End of story.
Therefore - no amount of endless gurning on here, or accusations towards the FAI of having a dark plot to destroy atmosphere at games, is going to do anything to reverse that stance by football's governing bodies. End. Of. Story.
So get over it. This thread comes up every few months with the same old 'FAI trying to kill atmosphere' ballax. I can't believe there's so many slow learners on here who just don't get it...
osarusan
07/04/2008, 10:53 AM
Flares are banned by UEFA and FIFA.
Therefore - no amount of endless gurning on here, or accusations towards the FAI of having a dark plot to destroy atmosphere at games, is going to do anything to reverse that stance by football's governing bodies.
So get over it. This thread comes up every few months with the same old 'FAI trying to kill atmosphere' ballax. I can't believe there's so many slow learners on here who just don't get it...
Well said that man.
This is not the FAI out to get anybody, it's a rule they have to comply with.
grounded
07/04/2008, 12:14 PM
What has smoke got to do with atmosphere? It's only irritating and temporarily obstructs view of the match.
It's a visual effect. Just like card or flag displays. It won't encourage anyone to sing and support their team throughout the game but you can not deny the effect a proper organised display can have on the players when they come out onto the pitch.
Some people like it some people dont. Each to their own I suppose but looking at countries like France, Italy, Argentina and even Germany the athmosphere at their games tend to better where there are Ultras groups using flares and smoke for their displays.
mediahack
07/04/2008, 2:23 PM
Flares are ridiculously over-rated in-terms of what they add to atmosphere, and are frankly a hazard in crowded places. End of story.
Flares are also banned by UEFA and FIFA. End of story.
Therefore - no amount of endless gurning on here, or accusations towards the FAI of having a dark plot to destroy atmosphere at games, is going to do anything to reverse that stance by football's governing bodies. End. Of. Story.
So get over it. This thread comes up every few months with the same old 'FAI trying to kill atmosphere' ballax. I can't believe there's so many slow learners on here who just don't get it...
Have to agree with you there Steve. They are dangerous and are rightfully banned!
However, if the FAI have gotten into bed with RTE to show MNS why do they allow RTE to have a flare display in the opening sequence!!!!
Now a fine for firing till rolls or bog rolls is just plain ridiculous!!!
grounded
07/04/2008, 2:35 PM
Have to agree with you there Steve. They are dangerous and are rightfully banned!
However, if the FAI have gotten into bed with RTE to show MNS why do they allow RTE to have a flare display in the opening sequence!!!!
Now a fine for firing till rolls or bog rolls is just plain ridiculous!!!
That's a very good point. Infact television stations around Europe have them in there when advertising big games.
Shouldn't they be fined too for promoting that sort of thing?
kkontour
07/04/2008, 5:44 PM
The issue outlined by the OP is not whether flares etc are allowed or not, but the fines imposed. In a league where money is already tight these fines hurt the clubs hard. It is difficult for clubs to stop this from happening. Short of strip searching how are clubs supposed to stop people bringing in flares. If flares are lit up the security should be commended for get the situation under control quickly. Maybe CCTV should be installed and anyone who lights up flares be ejected and banned from the ground, a report send to the FAI to explain how the situation was handled. No need for fines. Just corrective action. Clubs who do nothing should get the fine. Some say that fans should no better but most fans dont hurt their own club, they bring flares to away matches and could care less about the fines.
flares are not dangerous if they are used corectly. Sure flares thrown onto the pitch or at opposing fans would be dangerous but i dont think anyone who uses them at games here would even consider using them for that purpose. Fireworks are dangerous and have caused more injuries and deaths than flares. Flares being dangerous is a myth.
Poor Student, take a look at some of these displays and tell me if you dont think they look good and add to atmosphere. Well organised smoke and flare displays, as mentioned earlier, could get a lot more bums on seats in my opinion.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r106/spit_nolan/2006_1002shels0007.jpg
http://www.notoriousbooboys.com/display0507pats.html
http://www.notoriousbooboys.com/display0607rovers.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU0Q3pce5FE&feature=related :D
no way man!! its far too smoky!!
*cough cough*
*wheeze*
BohsPartisan
07/04/2008, 10:03 PM
no way man!! its far too smoky!!
*cough cough*
*wheeze*
Won't somebody please think of the students! :D
Jicked
08/04/2008, 5:38 PM
I still think the best ever post on foot.ie was the Derry fan complaining about the danger flares posed to his novelty wig. :D Now that's real support!
L37Ultra
08/04/2008, 5:55 PM
What is the FAI's view on fog horns, megaphones etc...
Ive never seen a problem with them at games before until Waterford last Friday.
They were taken off the Limerick fans and thrown away. :(
Also if an away fan sets off a flare, smoke bomb etc, which club gets fined?
The home team or the away team?
Fog horns are banned. Megaphones depending on which ground.
Rovers1
08/04/2008, 6:47 PM
Fog horns are banned. Megaphones depending on which ground.
bit off topic, but...
does anyone know why ST Pats were allowed leave up their tri-colour in last nights Setanta game at Brandywell? when we brought ours up, with just "Sligo Rovers FC" on it, we were asked to take it down. I know a few other clubs were asked to take theirs down when they put them up.
sligoman
08/04/2008, 7:13 PM
Also if an away fan sets off a flare, smoke bomb etc, which club gets fined?
The home team or the away team?Whoevers fans let it off, in this case, the away team.
BohsPartisan
08/04/2008, 8:47 PM
Look there are clearly two factions on the flare issue, the Jocks and the nerds. The nerds are in league with the crusty old dean to spoil the jocks' fun but we'll show 'em by having an almighty kegger and stealing the Dean's prized stuffed eagle or something.
dortie
08/04/2008, 9:49 PM
What next....?
No songs with swear words......:rolleyes:
Flares look great at games, dont see the risk at all if its controlled.
L37Ultra
09/04/2008, 8:04 AM
Whoevers fans let it off, in this case, the away team.
What case?
We did nothing!!
You saw nothing.
:D:D
bit off topic, but...
does anyone know why ST Pats were allowed leave up their tri-colour in last nights Setanta game at Brandywell? when we brought ours up, with just "Sligo Rovers FC" on it, we were asked to take it down. I know a few other clubs were asked to take theirs down when they put them up.
Pats fans had them up last year to get over it :p
mypost
09/04/2008, 6:18 PM
Well said that man.
This is not the FAI out to get anybody, it's a rule they have to comply with.
If a flare is lit in Croke Park, the FAI get fined. If it happens in the league, the clubs get fined.
Flares are dangerous, and you get punished for using them. Therefore, I don't see why people persist with them.
BohsPartisan
09/04/2008, 6:37 PM
Flares are dangerous,
Oft repeated never verified! :rolleyes:
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