Bertie to announce departure date [Archive]

monutdfc

02/04/2008, 10:46 AM

Seemed very confident that tribunal wont find any wrong doing.
It might not be the tribunal he has to worry about now - it's the perjury case*

(*tbh I can't see him being done for perjury, even though Eamonn Dunphy amongst others (including Senan Moloney in the Indo) thinks he is guilty of it http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/20080328.html and I am inclined to agree with them that he has perjured himself in the Tribunal)

monutdfc

02/04/2008, 10:47 AM

The oul right wing/left wing axis of evil...
LOL :)

Sligo Hornet

02/04/2008, 11:15 AM

"I know in my heart of hearts I have done no wrong and wronged no-one. My decision is motivated by what is best for the people. It is a personal decision.".......from BBC News

Don't you just love the true sincerety of politicians......gives me such a warm feeling of hope and security!;)..........meanwhile back in Zimbabwe....

dahamsta

02/04/2008, 11:23 AM

(*tbh I can't see him being done for perjury, even though I think he is guilty of it**)

(** I think it is safe for me to write this, since the Indo and Eamonn Dunphy have made similar allegations in/on national media. If not, mods feel free to delete)Using "I think" might excuse you, although people have gone to court for less. If you want to edit your post to cover yourself, I'll edit the quote. For future reference, the way around this is to point - directly, via a link or accurate quotation - to the "similar accusations". Not that I'd be encouraging anyone to call Bertie a corrupt gombeen man via someone else.

On another topic entirely, I like BGR's "bathstuds". A rare amusing exception to the usual filter-avoidance idiocy.

adam

NeilMcD

02/04/2008, 12:00 PM

Mugabe and Ahern both to go. Ahhh how the mighty have fallen.

DaveyCakes

02/04/2008, 12:13 PM

Hope Biffo scrubs up a bit before he starts repersenting us on the World stage.:)

Willie O'Dea for Taoiseach...:D...:eek:

Réiteoir

02/04/2008, 12:15 PM

Willie O'Dea for Taoiseach...:D...:eek:

Willie O'Dea for President of Zimbabwe - think he'd get that lot into shape pretty quick

He can take the gun of his with him into cabinet meetings...

KevB76

02/04/2008, 12:24 PM

Does this mean he wont benefit from the colossal pay rise he gave himself ?

Kingdom

02/04/2008, 1:59 PM

I'd say there is gonna be another general election before the year is out.
Dermot Ahern isn't going to take Cowen as Leader quietly. Cowen could be leader for a long time to come. I also reckon Dempsey's gonna push too. There will be an election, as I believe a lot of the electorate went for Ahern over Kenny, rather than Fianna Fail over Fine Gael in the election.

noby

02/04/2008, 2:05 PM

There will be an election, as I believe a lot of the electorate went for Ahern over Kenny, rather than Fianna Fail over Fine Gael in the election.

Correction: FG would like an election for that very reason, but FF won't call it unless they're polling really strongly.

Partizan

02/04/2008, 4:08 PM

Who will take the job now?

http://www.recruitireland.com/job/?jobID=10012942

pineapple stu

02/04/2008, 4:10 PM

Won't get fooled again...

SligoBrewer

02/04/2008, 4:22 PM

won't be happy till they're all gone from the dail

I'm likewise.

tricky_colour

02/04/2008, 6:37 PM

Seemed very confident that tribunal wont find any wrong doing.

Not that confident if he is resigning :D;)

pete

02/04/2008, 6:59 PM

Correct decision to resign although a few months earlier than predicted.

IMO he was under too much pressure to explain the recent inconsistencies relating to the sterling lodgements. I also believe he won't be able to explain a credible reason which is why he is stalling. He is hoping he wins the High Court action which will mean he never has to answer the questions. His claims that the Mahon Tribunal had no affect are bull. I get the feeling however that not many people care about this which is not a surprising Irish reaction.

- Bertie highlights would be Northern Ireland which I don't think many others could have pushed through.
- All Irish leaders have done well in Europe (CJ basically sold his vote for billions which we were happy about) so I don't feel he did any better than others would have achieved.
- Social Partnership will be mentioned as another success but that is open to debate.

Cowen will likely take over without a contest & he really does have a poisoned chalice. Health in chaos, Wobbly construction Industry, Tax revenues plummeting.

I am going to get a t-shirt like this guy (http://www.planearium2.de/bilder/charaktere-token.jpg) but with a big R instead. :)

Lionel Ritchie

03/04/2008, 7:24 AM

Micháel Martin has just announced he's backing Cowen for leader. There'll hardly be a contest now.

Macy

03/04/2008, 7:38 AM

Bertie just recieved this week another load of documents the Tribunal want to go through (Source: The Mail). Writing on the wall for him, hence the resignation, and the devil was in the detail of his speech - "I never recieved a corrupt payment". Approx €800,000 (in todays terms) of unexplained lodgements in two years in the mid 90's is okay then?

He deserves some credit for the North (but not the total writing out of history of others which has happened in the last 24 hours), and Social Partnership (at the behest of the unions at the very start) which provided the basis for our economic growth. However, his legacy is one of wasted boom times - crippled health services, crippled road infrastructure, little transport infrastructure, people commuting into Dublin from practically the whole country because of failure to either develop the regions, and properly regulate the building/ planning process in the capital. We perhaps never had it so good, but it could've been so much bloody better.

Macy

03/04/2008, 7:43 AM

Poor awl Bertie. I blame Pete and Macy.
Surely it was Mick Clifford, Fintan O'Toole, Frank Connolly, the Irish Times and the rest of the meeja? Doesn't matter that Independent News and Media were unflinching in their support, RTE similarly held over a barrel because of their fear of privatisation and need for licence fee increases and the News Corp papers also fully behind him.

noby

03/04/2008, 8:03 AM

I think it was Philip Boucher Hayes on the radio yesterday that was talking about leaked stories. Every time before Bertie came out with a new explanation, Hayes would get an anonymous phone call from St.Lukes, putting the story to him, to kind of sound out the credibility of it. The other day he got a phone call saying Bertie was going to explain away the sterling lodgements as winnings on bets placed in the UK.
If that's the best they could come up with then I guess it was time to throw in the towel.

monutdfc

03/04/2008, 8:19 AM

He deserves some credit for the North (but not the total writing out of history of others which has happened in the last 24 hours), and Social Partnership (at the behest of the unions at the very start) which provided the basis for our economic growth. However, his legacy is one of wasted boom times - crippled health services, crippled road infrastructure, little transport infrastructure, people commuting into Dublin from practically the whole country because of failure to either develop the regions, and properly regulate the building/ planning process in the capital. We perhaps never had it so good, but it could've been so much bloody better.
Good post. I won;t knock him for what has been achieved under his leadership, but with planning and foresight it could have been so much better.
10 years of a boom and all we have to show for it is 2 Luas tracks that don't meet, a couple of motorways that only go half the way to their destination, an overpriced tunnel and a plan for a metro. The surplus was spent on an overstaffed (and dare I say overpaid) public sector that will prove to be a huge burden in the next couple of years (it already is).

monutdfc

03/04/2008, 8:23 AM

Surely it was Mick Clifford, Fintan O'Toole, Frank Connolly, the Irish Times and the rest of the meeja? Doesn't matter that Independent News and Media were unflinching in their support, RTE similarly held over a barrel because of their fear of privatisation and need for licence fee increases and the News Corp papers also fully behind him.
The Sindo was unflinching in its sycophancy, but Senan Moloney did break ranks in the daily a couple of weeks ago when he (all but) called Bertie a perjurer following Carruth's evidence.

I think it was Philip Boucher Hayes on the radio yesterday that was talking about leaked stories. Every time before Bertie came out with a new explanation, Hayes would get an anonymous phone call from St.Lukes, putting the story to him, to kind of sound out the credibility of it. The other day he got a phone call saying Bertie was going to explain away the sterling lodgements as winnings on bets placed in the UK.
If that's the best they could come up with then I guess it was time to throw in the towel.
That does not surprise me at all - Senan Moloney's piece the day after the one I refer to above said that they were going to explain that he converted his salary to sterling before lodging it. It read so much like a kite fly - print this and see how it goes down before we decide to use it.

Big wins on the horses - ha ha we're they seriously thinking of trying that line?

Dodge

03/04/2008, 10:13 AM

Bought the Indo today for a laugh. I'd listened to drivetime on RTE radion 1 last night and their coverage was excellent. Some FF TDs, some opposition, random people on street, and the usual political commentators. seemed pretty fair and their was one excellent piece on the time line of the Mahon tribunal and the various inconsistencies. last word had soemthing similar

Indo only refered to his "dealings" with the mahon tribunal without actually deliving into it. And this witha 30 odd page pull out

Bluebeard

03/04/2008, 11:58 AM

I hate to call a halt on the parade at the forecast end of the Bertie years, but I am kind of worried.

Yes, I know that the evidence amounts to something pretty damning, but in reality, would you really expect Bertie to amble off so easily over it, albeit "In the National interest"?

I suspect that there is a big burst waiting around the corner - mostly a combination of all the stuff we have all spotted over the last little while, but the synergy of them amounting to a tidal wave.

Plus the fact that Mick Martin, the man who is possibly most capable of transforming FF into a political party and has a strong interest in taking over, has backed a Bifo - surely the antithesis of what he believes? Mick Martin is no schmuck and is possibly best connected at the mo to see certain aspects of the economic future. The phrase "Duck and Cover" comes to mind there.

Bertie has been through this rigamorole before and somehow got away with it. If he is jumping now, he is jumping before something huge, I fear.

In case you are wondering, politically speaking, I am at the front of the parade with an effigy of a man with a cheap suit and no "th"s

noby

03/04/2008, 12:07 PM

Plus the fact that Mick Martin, the man who is possibly most capable of transforming FF into a political party and has a strong interest in taking over, has backed a Bifo - surely the antithesis of what he believes? Mick Martin is no schmuck and is possibly best connected at the mo to see certain aspects of the economic future. The phrase "Duck and Cover" comes to mind there.

To run against the man that is going to walk any leadership contest could only damage your future career. To back him is a good way to smooth your path into the Tanaiste's seat, where you just have to wait your turn a little longer.

monutdfc

03/04/2008, 12:19 PM

Bluebeard

03/04/2008, 2:50 PM

To run against the man that is going to walk any leadership contest could only damage your future career. To back him is a good way to smooth your path into the Tanaiste's seat, where you just have to wait your turn a little longer.

That makes sense alright, though I always got the impression that Mick Martin and the Bifo were mortal enemies within. Certainly Bertie feared MM more than the others and was palsy with Cowan, and I would imagine that that they shared a distrust - I would think that Cowan would be unlikely to name him as a Tanáiste, and I would reckon he'd go for Lenihan if he has a choice, to use the family name to pull in some of those who doubt him.

Is Ahearn likely to mount a challenge - I think I heard someone from Louth on here saying he might?

superfrank

03/04/2008, 3:05 PM

Deligthed Ahern is gone. It's a pity it won't damage Fianna Fáil though. I would love to see them pegged back for a few years.

I won't miss Bertie.

My take on it is that for the past few days Bertie's been getting advice from his lawyers on what the contradicting evidence will mean when he goes back to the Tribunal. He's thought about it and he doesn't want to be in power when he has to go back as it'll be too damaging. I don't buy this crap that he's been thinking it over for a while.

I would like it if there's an election but I don't think it'll happen for awhile unless Cowen makes a complete balls of it.

Bluebeard

03/04/2008, 3:53 PM

I would like it if there's an election but I don't think it'll happen for awhile unless Cowen makes a complete balls of it.

And do you really think that Cowan making a complete balls of things (I'm taking that eventuality as a given) would be any cause for FF to go to the polls? I'm reckoning that even if there is meltdown with the Greens, a deal between the independents and FF will be thrashed out. And who better for a good sound thrashing than Cowan?

Kingdom

03/04/2008, 4:10 PM

The reason I think there will be a challenge is that cowan is a young enough guy in political terms and another career like Berties would mean Ahern/Martin/Hanafin would never get a shot at it.
Another thing is that from there have been whispers that Cowan has been too forthright in the past 6 months to a year, there will be a lot of people who won't take well to his "gruff" ways. Ahern would be more like, ehm, Ahern, to a lot of FFer's

Macy

04/04/2008, 7:19 AM

Apt that one of the last things Ahern wanted to close off before he left office was the readmittance of Flynn fully back into the fold.

monutdfc

04/04/2008, 8:28 AM

Apt that one of the last things Ahern wanted to close off before he left office was the readmittance of Flynn fully back into the fold.
Not just apt, but necessary: Pee Flynn is up before the Mahon tribunal in a few weeks and Bertie had to get Bev back in to the party to keep him onside. Wouldn't surpise me if it's part of the deal he cut with Cowen and she's a junior before the end of this Dail term

EDIT - turns out he's up before Mahon next Tuesday. Bev readmitted on Thursday (with the motion nominated by Bertie). Coincidence - I think not!

pete

04/04/2008, 10:29 AM

Job Advert for Berties old job (http://www.recruitireland.com/job/?jobID=10012942).

:D

dahamsta

05/04/2008, 12:20 AM

They had 150k views on that ad yesterday by 7pm. Talk about WoM.

I don't agree that mounting a challenge necessarily damages a career. It clearly puts cards on the table for the next opportunity, and a lot of voters in Ireland need to see those cards. There's a lot of thick voters in Ireland, let's be honest.

adam

Ringo

06/04/2008, 7:13 AM

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/theyve-got-him--and-sunk-to-a-new-depth-1339720.html

So. Happy now? Was that all worth it? With a media that is given to blowing up fits of indignant rage about everything from Kevin Myers to Dustin the Turkey, this was perhaps inevitable. This was the ultimate fit of righteousness. And now it's over and everyone has calmed down a bit. And what have we achieved exactly?

And the ones on the other side? What did they get? Well Fine Gael, incredibly, seem to be the party most damaged by the events of the last year. Fianna Fail in a bizarre way seems rejuvenated, united.

As much as there is shock about Bertie, life goes on and there is a feelgood factor about the party and about Cowen right now. Fine Gael just look weaker and more muddled than ever.

At no point in all this did Fine Gael ever threaten to take power and now they look further from it than ever.

Don't normally read Brendan O'Connor's articles, but he makes some very good points in this one. The mail in particular have been pushing for Berties head for the last year.

Lionel Ritchie

06/04/2008, 9:29 AM

pete

06/04/2008, 6:15 PM

I don't think Bertie is gone yet. Awaiting with interest to see how he explain himself in the Tribunal however I can concede at this stage that will have little affect on the government as most people don't follow the details or care if he took a "few quid". :(

Better to have an economic downturn at the start of a 5 year turn as will seem like things improving by the time next General Election comes around.

Macy

07/04/2008, 7:09 AM

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/theyve-got-him--and-sunk-to-a-new-depth-1339720.html

Don't normally read Brendan O'Connor's articles, but he makes some very good points in this one. The mail in particular have been pushing for Berties head for the last year.
It's called investigative journalism. Not something the SINDO know much about, they've towed the Bertie Party Line since the pre-election meeting. I assume more of the same from Harris? I know it was Corcoran who had the interview with Ahern.

Basically, it's all bull. Journalists that were supposedly running a campaign were just reporting the truth. Ahern has shown in the past he'll sue if it's not true, so do it again now if it's false stories. Papers like the SINDO and "journalists" like O'Connor, Harris and Corcoran invested so much in Aherns version of events of course they're going to attack those that were never hoodwinked/ forced to tow the editorial line. The only person that is responsible for Ahern going, and the media coverage of him, is the man himself. €800,000 of unexplained money, and INM think it was the media that did for him!?!

Kingdom

08/04/2008, 4:06 PM

All partys get a bounce when they change leader. I don't have much faith in Enda Kenny either but basically Fine Gaels profile is low because so much coverage has been given over a prolonged period to revelations about Bertie Ahern.

Whatever about feelgood factors, if I were in FF I'd certainly sleep easier now that Ahern is gone because, if I may quote Johnny Cash, I hear a train a-coming, it's rolling 'round the bend.

Mr richie, sir, I'd just like to say thats the best analogy/quote/call-it-what-you-like that I've ever seen on these boards. It made me smile.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/theyve-got-him--and-sunk-to-a-new-depth-1339720.html

Don't normally read Brendan O'Connor's articles, but he makes some very good points in this one. The mail in particular have been pushing for Berties head for the last year.

I can't see one point he made at all tbh. I've said constantly, that if the same circumstances were in Britain he'd have resigned before the last election. As for the Sunday Independent, they're reporting of things this past year has , along with Fanning, made me switch my choice of Sunday paper.

As for credible candidates for Taoiseach apart from Cowen, the only person I can think of is Dermot Ahern. I mean, would any of ye seriously entertain the thoughts of Michael Martin, Noel Dempsey, for Taoiseach? As for Hanafin, there's stuff a happening within her department, that is going to make things really ugly. she won't be Education minister next year, I'd nearly put money on that.
As for Fine Gael, yes it does seem like Enda Kenny has shot his load so to speak. If he was going to assume power it would have happened by now, and I think its time he steps aside. As for his successor, Richard Bruton seems the obvious choice.

Off-topic, could the more seasoned political campaigners amongst us tell me what became of Alan Dukes? I regularily see him on tv and he seems quite knowledgable, sincere and honest. He also uses the auld public transport which is a plus in my books.