Worst Irish 11 since 1980

[Bluebeard]

He's a player that Ferguson wanted to keep.

So he's like a less successful John O'Shea, you mean?

[jmurphyc]

So he's like a less successful John O'Shea, you mean?

Well, JOS had talent. All I'm saying is that it shows that there's probably potential there. JOS would have been much better off leaving just as McShane did.

[Shedender81]

Having Bonner, Reid and McAteer on that list is a joke, Bonner is probably our 2nd best keeper of the last 25 years, Reid has been unlucky with injuries but even if you just judge him by the 10 games he has played then he is hardly in the worst 11, as for McAteer, he had some poor games but he also had some very good games and he came up big for Ireland in some crucial matches and we wouldn't have qualified for WC2002 without him.

For me Conolley is by far the worst Irish player to have achieved 40+ capps, he never once scored a goal against a good team in a game that mattered


Good Point... Have you looked at Aldo's record.... goal v Mexico other than that ?????????????

[Superhoops]

Good selection - when did Peter Murphy get his cap - I had completely forgotten it happening*

*EDIT: D'oh - that would have been during the Summer then, wouldn't it.....
Yep, played first half against Bolivia.

[Razors left peg]

Bonner has to be slightly better than Nick Colgan:rolleyes:

[Qwerty]

Bonner was at his best before 1990 and went downhill thereafter. At his best he was excellent, second only to Given over the past 30 years. Alan Kelly also was not a bad keeper by any means. Colgan wins the goalie award, I don't think one cap wonders should count, I've tried to pick players who actually played a fair few games...

My worse of the worst

Colgan

Morris Daish Kernaghan Flemming

McGoldrick Douglas Carsley Stan

Coyne Slaven

[Superhoops]

Bonner was at his best before 1990 and went downhill thereafter. At his best he was excellent, second only to Given over the past 30 years. Alan Kelly also was not a bad keeper by any means. Colgan wins the goalie award, I don't think one cap wonders should count, I've tried to pick players who actually played a fair few games...

My worse of the worst

Colgan

Morris Daish Kernaghan Flemming

McGoldrick Douglas Carsley Stan

Coyne Slaven

Looks good except for these two. Although I don't agree, I might understand a case for Carsley but to include Staunton is totally off the wall.

[jbyrne]

Morris, Stan


i have to ask if you ever watched Ireland play in the early 90s?

[amaccann]

If Bonner was rubbish because of a couple of gaffs, then by that logic so is Given; does it really need reminding? His famous fook up against Coventry with Dion Dublin getting the easiest goal he';ll ever score?

[Morbo]

Bonner was at his best before 1990 and went downhill thereafter. At his best he was excellent, second only to Given over the past 30 years. Alan Kelly also was not a bad keeper by any means. Colgan wins the goalie award, I don't think one cap wonders should count, I've tried to pick players who actually played a fair few games...

My worse of the worst

Colgan

Morris Daish Kernaghan Flemming

McGoldrick Douglas Carsley Stan

Coyne Slaven

Are you just kicking Stan while he is down or do you really believe he is one of the worst 11 since 1980?

[Shedender81]

If Bonner was rubbish because of a couple of gaffs, then by that logic so is Given; does it really need reminding? His famous fook up against Coventry with Dion Dublin getting the easiest goal he';ll ever score?

Ehhh... Bonner buggered in big games for IRELAND.... who cares about Newcastle

[Shedender81]

Stan... was a rubbish manager.... but over 103 caps for Ireland he was a great Irish International....... Left Back / Left Midfield , even Center Midfield away to Portugal in 1995 and then Center Half .... Regardless of his lack of class of Saipan and his failings as a Manager , he was a class player for 14 YEARS for Ireland... up to the 1994 W Cup Finals he was top notch.... he dipped after that , but the 2002 campaign he did his fair share

[BradyIsMyHero]

Top of the list by a million miles is one Paul Butler, then of Sunderland, who played the first half of the game against Czech Republic at Lansdowne Road in 2000. Mick McCarthy apparently rated him, and game him a run - albeit, it was a friendly.
After a torrid first half, in which he was cleaned out by Jan Koeller (two goals), he was hauled off at half-time, and never darkened the door of the Irish dressing room subsequently.

[tetsujin1979]

never darkened the door of the Irish dressing room subsequently.
He was called into a few squads after that, but he never made a matchday XVI

[Speakthetruth]

Surely Mickey "A 12 year old found I existed on the Internet" Evans is a good tout for any 11...

[amaccann]

Ehhh... Bonner buggered in big games for IRELAND.... who cares about Newcastle
And saved our bacon in countless others. Goalkeepers are more prone to have their mistakes highlighted than others, it's scarcely fair to judge Bonner on the basis of a couple of slips. Certainly in the case of that famous flap against Holland in '94, we were well beaten in that game anyway, with or without that blunder.

[DeNiro]

Curtis Fleming was a decent player. I wouldn't have him in a worst XI. I would take him ahead of John O'Shea. I could think of the likes of Davy Savage, Barry Quinn, etc. These guys got a few caps and were really limited players.

[Supreme feet]

While we're talking about obscure international players, is it worth pointing out some of the lads who made the bench for Ireland over the years but never made an appearance? Thinking of Ger Crossley, Jason Gavin (Mexico '98), Richie Partridge, Wes Hoolahan (Greece, '02). I also think Shaun Thornton might have been there at one stage (Norway 2003?). Anyone else?

[Bluebeard]

There seems to be two schools here - one promulgating the evil of the "One (or two) Cap Wonders" and one which suggests that you really ought to have been consistently bad for Ireland, some seem to take the attitude that if you ever screwed up, you earn your place, which covers almost every Irish player in the past 128 years, never mind 28. Might I suggest we have some rules on a selecting a seriously bad Irish XI.

1. All players must have played in 10 accreditted games for the full senior international team during the period described, and their efforts in that period alone count towards their lack of example for Ireland.
2. Their badness must be divided out over ALL their games (no "John Aldridge from 1986 to 1989").
3. Their badness must be for the full senior international team - no amount of valiant efforts for their club, U21s or the B team may count towards their badness, nor vice versa in argument.
4. Teams should be in the national formation, and players named must have played in those positions at least once

This unfortunately would rule out Paul Butler, Mickey Evans and a host of deserving players, but they may have the consolation of being examples of the single worst performances ever hosted by an Irish jersey.

My selection, under these rules:

GK Alan Kelly (34 caps)

RB Maybury (10)
LB Fleming (10)
CB Babb (35)
CB Kernaghan (26) - According to Wiki, currently youth coach at Rangers - is this a first?

RM McGoldrick (15)
LM O'Shea (45 - played there for one of the Swiss games I think)
CM Carsley (36)
CM Kennedy (34)

FW Doherty (36)
FW Coyne (22)

As you can see, they are almost exclusively from the post 1988 period, probably because I couldn't tell good from bad as well as a kid and they were all heroes in my eyes.

[BradyIsMyHero]

Under Bluebard's rules, neither Carsley nor Coyne would qualify.
Since his return, Carsley has held the team together (admittedly under Stan's reign) so couldn't be considered "consistently bad".
Tommy Coyne - though never the greatest - led the line on his own in USA 94 (was it Jack who first invented the five man midfield ?) and performed very bravely up there on his own.

[Bluebeard]

Under Bluebard's rules, neither Carsley nor Coyne would qualify.
Since his return, Carsley has held the team together (admittedly under Stan's reign) so couldn't be considered "consistently bad".
Tommy Coyne - though never the greatest - led the line on his own in USA 94 (was it Jack who first invented the five man midfield ?) and performed very bravely up there on his own.

Carsley certainly qualifies - I can remember only one game he was any good under Stan, and a few stinkers, though I only saw about three quarters of the Stan era; furthermore, his paucity of ability in the pre-Moyes-period still plunges him South of passable. Essentially, this is covered by rule 2 - his (extremely) short good period is also divided over all his games. If one or two games does not make a player "bad", then one or two cannot make him "good".

Coyne, I would agree with you on to a degree - he was unlucky with his time co-inciding with 4-5-1 system worked by Charlton, and very brave without much support. However, it doesn't mean he was not one of our weaker players on the field based on those performances - regularly it was after he went off (Italy game aside) that our performances picked up. Coyne pipped Connolly for it because Connolly scored proportionately more goals (the principle task of striker - Coyne scored once every 5.5 games, Connolly once every 4.5) and generally contributed more to play, largely thanks to not being the lone striker. Personally, given a choice I'd rate Coyne ahead of Connolly, but based on performance for the national team...

I believe the Italians invented the five man midfield, and I certainly saw some dodgy bottom of the first division teams use it in the LOI before that, but I think Charlton was the first to use it internationally on these islands.

[BradyIsMyHero]

Subsitutes on Bluebeard's team:

for Carsley - subsitute Graham Kavanagh
For Coyne- substitute David Connolly

now there's a decent "consistently bad" first XI

[Shedender81]

There seems to be two schools here - one promulgating the evil of the "One (or two) Cap Wonders" and one which suggests that you really ought to have been consistently bad for Ireland, some seem to take the attitude that if you ever screwed up, you earn your place, which covers almost every Irish player in the past 128 years, never mind 28. Might I suggest we have some rules on a selecting a seriously bad Irish XI.

1. All players must have played in 10 accreditted games for the full senior international team during the period described, and their efforts in that period alone count towards their lack of example for Ireland.
2. Their badness must be divided out over ALL their games (no "John Aldridge from 1986 to 1989").
3. Their badness must be for the full senior international team - no amount of valiant efforts for their club, U21s or the B team may count towards their badness, nor vice versa in argument.
4. Teams should be in the national formation, and players named must have played in those positions at least once

This unfortunately would rule out Paul Butler, Mickey Evans and a host of deserving players, but they may have the consolation of being examples of the single worst performances ever hosted by an Irish jersey.

My selection, under these rules:

GK Alan Kelly (34 caps)

RB Maybury (10)
LB Fleming (10)
CB Babb (35)
CB Kernaghan (26) - According to Wiki, currently youth coach at Rangers - is this a first?

RM McGoldrick (15)
LM O'Shea (45 - played there for one of the Swiss games I think)
CM Carsley (36)
CM Kennedy (34)

FW Doherty (36)
FW Coyne (22)

As you can see, they are almost exclusively from the post 1988 period, probably because I couldn't tell good from bad as well as a kid and they were all heroes in my eyes.

Mark Kennedy's goals v Yugo was one of the best in Lansdowne over the years... also his honesty in telling Mick in 2002 he was inj showed more respect than his mate Jayo

[Block G Raptor]

1. Gerry Peyton
2. Chris Morris
3. Phil Babb
4. Phil Babb
5. Eddie McGoldrick
6. Phil Babb
7. John O'shea
8. Paul Butler
9. Phil Babb
10. David Connolly
11. John O'shea

[youngirish]

Mark Kennedy's goals v Yugo was one of the best in Lansdowne over the years... also his honesty in telling Mick in 2002 he was inj showed more respect than his mate Jayo

That's all true but unfortunately it doesn't overturn the fact that he was still sh*t.

[Fergie's Son]

The OP seems like a WUM to me.

Chris Morris wasn't great but he was a solid defender. Didn't offer much going forward but should be nowhere near a worst XI

Anyone who thinks Bonner should be just isn't that bright.

McGoldrick actually wasn't that bad for Ireland. Had a very good game in Denmark when we needed that draw over there.

[Carrigaline]

Hello!

I can't believe that people are leaving picking Stephen Reid over a player like Graham Kavanagh!

Couldn't pass, tackle or cross!

[BigmanCas]

Bonner
Morris
Harte
Kernaghan (c)
Babb
Mc Goldrick
Miller
Healy
Douglas
Connolly
Morrisson

[BigmanCas]

Surely even then Alan Kelly would be in there instead of Bonner. He was pure sh*te. Bonner I thought was a very good keeper for us despite the odd mistake. In Euro 88 he was possibly our outstanding player.

Give me one example of where Alan Kelly was poor - He was a great keeper for club and country. Bonner made mistake upon mistake and was brutal with the backpass. He is still a legend but was never a super kepper.

[Razors left peg]

I remember being in Anfield for the playoff against Holland in 96 and that night we would have been beaten by a hell of alot more than 2 only for Alan Kelly. Always thought he was a very good keeper

[jmurphyc]

Bonner
Morris
Harte
Kernaghan (c)
Babb
Mc Goldrick
Miller
Healy
Douglas
Connolly
Morrisson

I always liked Healy. I didn't get to see too much of him, but I thought he was just unlucky with injuries and always looked a good prospect. Also, I'm not Morrison's biggest fan, but I think it's also very harsh to include him in our worst 11 since 1980. For example, Doherty has not been as good for us (though I wouldn't include him in a worst 11 either).

[gustavo]

Bonner:rolleyes:
Morris:rolleyes:
Harte
Kernaghan (c)
Babb
Mc Goldrick
Miller
Healy
Douglas
Connolly
Morrisson:rolleyes:
Morrison shouldnt be anywhere near that list

[Qwerty]

Are you just kicking Stan while he is down or do you really believe he is one of the worst 11 since 1980?

Yes :) Although he wasn't the worst left sided midfielder we had obviously he is well behind Duff, Sheedy and Galvin who were the other regulars going back 20-30 years. He was the Kilbane of his day. Good left back but remember he lost out to David Burrows at Liverpool, decent center back in his twilight years but never a top notch midfielder. Limited and played with passion, but yes I am kicking him while he is down :)

[Qwerty]

i have to ask if you ever watched Ireland play in the early 90s?

Yes did you? Morris couldn't cross to save his granny's life.

[Shedender81]

Curtis Fleming was a decent player. I wouldn't have him in a worst XI. I would take him ahead of John O'Shea. I could think of the likes of Davy Savage, Barry Quinn, etc. These guys got a few caps and were really limited players.


John O'Shea has just played in the CL 1/4 Final.... You would really pick Curtis Fleming a nice guy that is... but you cant be a serious football person

[tetsujin1979]

John O'Shea has just played in the CL 1/4 Final.... You would really pick Curtis Fleming a nice guy that is... but you cant be a serious football person
Fleming's a legend at Boro, when Robson took over, he switched Fleming to the opposite flank and he played just as well.

[Dodge]

John O'Shea has just played in the CL 1/4 Final.... You would really pick Curtis Fleming a nice guy that is... but you cant be a serious football person

George Best never played in the world cup so he can't be world class...

Scandalous comments by some here. Bonnar the worst keeper?

[DeNiro]

John O'Shea has just played in the CL 1/4 Final.... You would really pick Curtis Fleming a nice guy that is... but you cant be a serious football person

He played indeed, after he was brought on. Which means he wasn't good enough in the first place. Fleming, who I saw in nearly all in his Irish appearances, was a good player. Solid and didn't turn his back on the ball when the opposition had frees if I remember correctly.:rolleyes:

[Shedender81]

Fleming's a legend at Boro, when Robson took over, he switched Fleming to the opposite flank and he played just as well.

Was that in the team that was relegated

[Shedender81]

George Best never played in the world cup so he can't be world class...

Scandalous comments by some here. Bonnar the worst keeper?

Bonner was shocking at times for Ireland.... bottled in 3 massive games...

[gustavo]

Bonner was shocking at times for Ireland.... bottled in 3 massive games...
And yet was deemed better than all competition for a decade and a half

[tetsujin1979]

Was that in the team that was relegated
And the team that was promoted. Robson brought in a whole new squad of players with the millions he had to play with, and Fleming was one of the few that survived the cull

[adamcarr]

I always liked Healy. I didn't get to see too much of him, but I thought he was just unlucky with injuries and always looked a good prospect. Also, I'm not Morrison's biggest fan, but I think it's also very harsh to include him in our worst 11 since 1980. For example, Doherty has not been as good for us (though I wouldn't include him in a worst 11 either).
If Healy was as bad as he is now then Id have him in the list.

[Wolfie]

Says a lot about Trigger that in 50 games you can only remember 3 things... and two were in his first 3 or 4 games !!

I also remember Macedonia and him kicking a player in the chest and getting a RED card. I would say of all the 50 caps players that we have had he is the without doubt the WORST !!!

Well, its 3 arbitrary things that sprung immediately to mind in addition to his performances against Holland away in 2000 and his goal against the Dutch in 2001.

If you remember Macedonia as well - you'll be aware that the match he scored in was Macedonia at home. The kicking incident occurred against Macedonia away. An entirely different match.

This thread is not titled "The worst Ireland players to have amassed 50 caps or more".

[youngirish]

John O'Shea has just played in the CL 1/4 Final....
Unfortunately this doesn't change the fact that he's pure drivel.

[Shedender81]

Well, its 3 arbitrary things that sprung immediately to mind in addition to his performances against Holland away in 2000 and his goal against the Dutch in 2001.

If you remember Macedonia as well - you'll be aware that the match he scored in was Macedonia at home. The kicking incident occurred against Macedonia away. An entirely different match.

This thread is not titled "The worst Ireland players to have amassed 50 caps or more".

Did i say it was the same game... the mere fact we are mentioning so few incidents backs up the feeling he was overrated . over used and was in fact basically a footballing gypo who to be honest would have rather played for England

[Wolfie]

Did i say it was the same game... the mere fact we are mentioning so few incidents backs up the feeling he was overrated . over used and was in fact basically a footballing gypo who to be honest would have rather played for England

Not bad enough to feature in a worst Irish 11 since 1980.

[gustavo]

Did i say it was the same game... the mere fact we are mentioning so few incidents backs up the feeling he was overrated . over used and was in fact basically a footballing gypo who to be honest would have rather played for England

So would Townsend but you still managed to find a place on your bench for your best XI so I don't see why you are using that as a reason to discredit McAteer

[Shedender81]

So would Townsend but you still managed to find a place on your bench for your best XI so I don't see why you are using that as a reason to discredit McAteer

Andy Townsend played with courage , honour and integrity , Can any of these be applied to the second rate midfielder

[tetsujin1979]

Andy Townsend played with courage , honour and integrity , Can any of these be applied to the second rate midfielderMcAteer isn't amongst the best players ever to wear the green, but he played with heart, and scored probably the most famous Irish goal in the last 10 years. If nothing else, he was passionate about playing for Ireland, something which most posters seem to think is lacking from the recent squads. There are certainly worse players to have played right wing for Ireland.