Whats up with shels fans

[Lamper.sffc]

Just looking at a few other sites and have noticed shels fans seem to have a really big problem with SF. I understand rivalry between clubs but these guys are really spitting blood ( not all I know)
Just wondering what anyone else thought ( including shels fans)

[Santry_Goonshow]

Just looking at a few other sites and have noticed shels fans seem to have a really big problem with SF. I understand rivalry between clubs but these guys are really spitting blood ( not all I know)
Just wondering what anyone else thought ( including shels fans)


I reckon its 3 intervening factors.
1 recently a big club who have just had the wind taken out of their sails
2 bitterness at having lost out on hearse road/lissenhall before Ollie died
3 Fear of Sporting Fingal, a sustainable club looking over their shoulders

[TheFingallian]

I've heard a couple say that Sporting Fingal were suppose to replace Shels or something last year. I don't see how this is true though. :confused:

They should be happy with a Dublin rival of some kind while they're down in this division.

[pineapple stu]

3 Fear of Sporting Fingal, a sustainable club looking over their shoulders
First :D of many, I hope!

Keep 'em coming!

[Santry_Goonshow]

First :D of many, I hope!

Keep 'em coming!

Thank you for being reasonable and understanding the point. What the league needs, and beleaguered LOI fans deserve, is 20 clubs that have:

1. A well defined catchment area or "community" for their fans. This helps promotion, gates, sponsors and links to sources of funding. Not currently understood by clubs like Shels or Rovers - which bus route will they palying on next?
2. A stadium that they own, and therefore an asset to offset against troubled times or use as an income stream or concert venue or loan out to the GAA bethern. This is just good business sense, even retrogressive clubs in England know this - LOI clubs haven't the ability to see it
3. A net contribution to the development of skills and younger players, imo the most deficient system in Europe. Look at the Ireland u21s, and other youth level teams. There's a real dearth of quality coming through because local structures don't link together. Our skillful players develop in spite of the system not because of it.

Obviously most LOI clubs need a sharp jolt, LOI fans are like drug addicts. Put talcum powder in their hit and they will still throw it into their arms. i don't see why I was forced to grovel in other threads for this opinion:mad:

[pineapple stu]

Superb! 2 from 2!!


What the league needs, and beleaguered LOI fans deserve, is 20 clubs that have:
So you're leaving out Rovers and Shels here, yeah?


A well defined catchment area or "community" for their fans.
Fingal's a well defined, community area, yeah?


Not currently understood by clubs like Shels or Rovers - which bus route will they palying on next?
Shels have been at Tolka for over 20 years at this stage, and were in it before as well. Changing venues regularly alright.



A stadium that they own
That's youz out so.


A net contribution to the development of skills and younger players, imo the most deficient system in Europe. Look at the Ireland u21s, and other youth level teams.
And suddenly, SF will make the 21s world beaters, yeah?

[DmanDmythDledge]

1. A well defined catchment area or "community" for their fans. This helps promotion, gates, sponsors and links to sources of funding. Not currently understood by clubs like Shels or Rovers - which bus route will they palying on next?
Concrete proof that you're talking through your arse.

Sporting Fingal, in my opinion, are adopting the right approach in creating links with their community and aspiring to setup an academy. They are not the only club doing this, however. Get off the high horse- it's hardly some sort of unprecedented brainwave.

[Santry_Goonshow]

Concrete proof that you're talking through your arse.

Sporting Fingal, in my opinion, are adopting the right approach in creating links with their community and aspiring to setup an academy. They are not the only club doing this, however. Get off the high horse- it's hardly some sort of unprecedented brainwave.

Well answer this then. Why are clubs wallowing in and out of crisis even the so called giants of SRFC and SFC, why do most not own their stadia (SFFC will own theirs), why ar emost not really doing more than lip service to the development of youth soccer.

I have a right to answer the question posed by the other man - and you can disagree, but how the hell is anything concrete proof of anyone talking to their arse. If you want to talk, talk. If you want to blindly insult me then just make up a chant sing it on an abandoned rented terrace and at least be honest with yourself.


Superb! 2 from 2!!
So you're leaving out Rovers and Shels here, yeah?
Fingal's a well defined, community area, yeah?
Shels have been at Tolka for over 20 years at this stage, and were in it before as well. Changing venues regularly alright.
That's youz out so.
And suddenly, SF will make the 21s world beaters, yeah?


You need to inform yourself. I included Shels and Rovers in my comments. Pretty obvious isn't it? Fingal is very well defined, has a boundary going back to 1994. You can find maps of it on Google for example - check it if you don't believe me.

Shels sold their stadium at Irishtown (classic long-term thinking) arrived at Tolka and baled out to Harolds Cross dog track(making false promises to be the Dublin 4/6/12 local team especially after Rovers stabbed their fans in the back at Milltown). Why do I know this? Because I was one of several thousand mugs who thought they had a local side in Harolds Cross. This stint in Tolka almost ended on 3 occasions over the last 5 years. Shels lost out on two sites PLUS the opportunity to become Sporting Fingal. So tell me now, am I wrong to say they flit around?

Sporting Fingal will own its own purpose built stadium therby making a long term committment and putting roots down in Swords. The stadium it plays at now is envisaged for 2-3 years, but Fingal County Council is a stakeholder in that so it is secure unlike most others.

Read my original post. I wasn't saying that SFFC would be "world beaters", those are your words. I said that 20 league clubs need to take similar steps.

I'll get off my high-horse when you get a horse. Then we can look eye to eye.;)

[DmanDmythDledge]

Well answer this then. Why are clubs wallowing in and out of crisis even the so called giants of SRFC and SFC, why do most not own their stadia (SFFC will own theirs), why are most not really doing more than lip service to the development of youth soccer.

I have a right to answer the question posed by the other man - and you can disagree, but how the hell is anything concrete proof of anyone talking to their arse. If you want to talk, talk. If you want to blindly insult me then just make up a chant sing it on an abandoned rented terrace and at least be honest with yourself.
Crisis? Shels were in a crisis because of one man running the show. They've paid the price and are subsequently rebuilding.

Since when did owning stadia become a barometer for the development of youth soccer?

You're original point was that Shamrock Rovers had no community links. For someone who is making themselves out to be an expert on this topic your comments on this thread, and threads, suggest otherwise.

When Rovers made the decision to build their new stadium in Tallaght they moved every aspect of the club the vicinity (schoolboy, LSL). They have also created several links with the community, including footballing scholarships in conjunction with ITT. To dismiss this and label SRFC as having no community links just because you are unaware of them is ignorance.


I'll get off my high-horse when you get a horse. Then we can look eye to eye.;)
Yet again you show your ignorance for the topic being discussed.

[Raheny Red]

And here the obsession starts...........

[passerrby]

Well answer this then. Why are clubs wallowing in and out of crisis even the so called giants of SRFC and SFC, why do most not own their stadia (SFFC will own theirs), why ar emost not really doing more than lip service to the development of youth soccer.

I have a right to answer the question posed by the other man - and you can disagree, but how the hell is anything concrete proof of anyone talking to their arse. If you want to talk, talk. If you want to blindly insult me then just make up a chant sing it on an abandoned rented terrace and at least be honest with yourself.

fcuking hell all we need is another geni ass telling us all were we are going wrong and before you reply we own our our groud and have one ofthe best youth and community programmes in the country.
your only here a wet day and your telling us all were we are going wrong. at this moment all you have is aspirations and therre like *******s we all have them

[Rovers fan]

Shels sold their stadium at Irishtown (classic long-term thinking) a

wikipedia/google does have a very good memory

[Olander]

as the Rock would say "know your role jabroni" :)

[jebus]

If I were a Fingal fan I'd more worried about the lack of people that were willing to pay into the Limerick game, 350-400 people with 70-80 of them being Limerick fans foretells Dublin City style doom I feel

[pineapple stu]

This is great craic!


You need to inform yourself. I included Shels and Rovers in my comments. Pretty obvious isn't it?
You referred to 20 eL teams. You then singled out Rovers and Shels as exceptions. Given there are 22 teams, and you're talking about 20 and excluding two...?


Fingal is very well defined, has a boundary going back to 1994.
So you don't know what bus to get to Shels' next game even though they're in Tolka 20+ years, but a fictional county with borders for 14 years is well-defined?

Fingal is not well defined. Nobody I know from there considers themselves Fingallian. Nobody, in short, cares. About the "county", or about the ego-trips the "county" councillors are on that needs them to invent a county to satisfy it. That's how it's not well defined.


Sporting Fingal will own its own purpose built stadium
No they won't. The council will. Similar set-up to a lot of clubs up and down the league.


Read my original post. I wasn't saying that SFFC would be "world beaters", those are your words.
Are they? You want to show me where I said that?

[Raheny Red]

He's nothing more than a wum.

[Lamper.sffc]

If I were a Fingal fan I'd more worried about the lack of people that were willing to pay into the Limerick game, 350-400 people with 70-80 of them being Limerick fans foretells Dublin City style doom I feel

It was around the 480, About 30 to 40 limerick and also one of the coldest nights of the year. And i would still say not bad for a club who had few months to get a squad together and attract fans. If i had a penny for every dublin city reference. We are backed to the hilt financially for next 5 years unlike dublin city. And Dublin city never represented me. (I know there name had fingal in it at one point, nothing more than a cheap marketing trick)

[jebus]

Since you can't count (30-40 Limerick fans ffs) I don't believe your estimates on the crowd

[passerrby]

Thank you for being reasonable and understanding the point. What the league needs, and beleaguered LOI fans deserve, is 20 clubs that have:
at least 15 have

1. A well defined catchment area or "community" for their fans. This helps promotion, gates, sponsors and links to sources of funding. Not currently understood by clubs like Shels or Rovers - which bus route will they palying on next?
youve been listening to too many marketing men(if we build it they will come)
2. A stadium that they own, and therefore an asset to offset against troubled times or use as an income stream or concert venue or loan out to the GAA bethern. This is just good business sense, even retrogressive clubs in England know this - LOI clubs haven't the ability to see it
who is they ,they dont own anything and you can us it as an assest if its disignated for sporting activities
3. A net contribution to the development of skills and younger players, imo the most deficient system in Europe. Look at the Ireland u21s, and other youth level teams. There's a real dearth of quality coming through because local structures don't link together. Our skillful players develop in spite of the system not because of it.
and you have the solution gee whiss
Obviously most LOI clubs need a sharp jolt, LOI fans are like drug addicts. Put talcum powder in their hit and they will still throw it into their arms. i don't see why I was forced to grovel in other threads for this opinion:mad:
most if not all clubs have been on a learning curb for a number of years as football is changing but im sure they have nothing to learn from SF until we see the fruit of your loins

[dfx-]

Not currently understood by clubs like Shels or Rovers - which bus route will they palying on next?


77/56A/50/65B/77A/54A/201/202/65/49/75

Take your pick.:)

[Lamper.sffc]

Guys, I might as well have started of the thread with we hate all other clubs:D

First of all can I just say Pineapple stu. Give me a break will you:rolleyes:. Man you are just looking for an argument. Maybe you should actually read what santry Goonshow is saying.
And please stop talking about Fingal as if you know who and what we are. Nobody you know considers themselves Fingallian. Who is that, BOB SUE AND MICK TOO. I live in the area and alot of people know they are fingallians. The club will also further the identity of Fingal. So talk about something with facts please.

The basic point is that Sporting are trying to do it differently. The council have been working on this for the last 3 years or more (originally for existing dublin club). A lot of research has gone into getting this club up and running. They have researched successful clubs abroad to see how they do it and are copying their methods.

If shels and shamrock rovers where doing it right they would not have had all the troubles they have had. Thats just a fact. ( Nothing against them)

I think we can all agree that the clubs and league are not what they should be. (not saying sporting are the only ones trying to put it right.)

We can fill Croke park for internationals. God knows how many go abroad to watch english clubs (Not blaming them either) God I have to be so careful.
A lot of other countries follow the english league, but they can still run a pretty successful domestic league compared to ours. Norway for example.

We are just a club trying to get on our feet. A lot of comments are very negative about the club. I dont understand this. You should be embracing new clubs. The more competitive the league the better.

If we fail, then its no skin of your nose.


Since you can't count (30-40 Limerick fans ffs) I don't believe your estimates on the crowd

Its not an estimate. They announced the crowd on the night. There was a small pocket of limerick fans on the other stand.
It is you that is guessing my friend. "350-400 people with 70-80 of them being Limerick fans" I dont think so:).

[Block G Raptor]

And please stop talking about Fingal as if you know who and what we are. Nobody you know considers themselves Fingallian. Who is that, BOB SUE AND MICK TOO. I live in the area and alot of people know they are fingallians. The club will also further the identity of Fingal. So talk about something with facts please.
I live in what a few councillors have dubbed fingal and I can assure you that I would never ever answer the question "where are you from" with "Fingal" nor do I feel any affiliation with SF. the only time Fingal is on my radar is whem Im putting a Fingal County Council Bin Tag on my wheelie Bin


The basic point is that Sporting are trying to do it differently. what is it that SF are doing differently than all us other imbeciles ?


Norway for example.
take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI




If we fail, then its no skin of your nose.yes it is The last thing the league needs is another makey uppy club with no fan base going bust in an embarrassing Dublin cityesque fashion

[passerrby]

.

The basic point is that Sporting are trying to do it differently. The council have been working on this for the last 3 years or more (originally for existing dublin club). A lot of research has gone into getting this club up and running. They have researched successful clubs abroad to see how they do it and are copying their methods.
NO THEY ARE NOT
If shels and shamrock rovers where doing it right they would not have had all the troubles they have had. Thats just a fact. ( Nothing against them)
YOU WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ROVERS PROBLEMSI think we can all agree that the clubs and league are not what they should be. (not saying sporting are the only ones trying to put it right.)
YA BUT I DONT AGREE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY CLUB WITH THE SOLUTION
We can fill Croke park for internationals. God knows how many go abroad to watch english clubs (Not blaming them either) God I have to be so careful.
A lot of other countries follow the english league, but they can still run a pretty successful domestic league compared to ours. Norway for example.
NORWAY MY ARSE

We are just a club trying to get on our feet. A lot of comments are very negative about the club. I dont understand this. You should be embracing new clubs. The more competitive the league the better.
WE DO AND WE WISH SF AL THE BEST FOR THE FUTURE BUT GET OFF THE SOAPBOX

If we fail, then its no skin of your nose.
yes it is becuase anything that happens in the league reflexs on us all

[jebus]

Its not an estimate. They announced the crowd on the night. There was a small pocket of limerick fans on the other stand.
It is you that is guessing my friend. "350-400 people with 70-80 of them being Limerick fans" I dont think so:).

Wow I hadn't realised Fingal gave such detailed crowd ests as '475 in total, the breakdown being: 35 Limerick fans, 40 drunk teenagers on the hill, 200 free children, 5 dogs, 20 free councilers, 100 paying fans, 10 cats, 25 pensioners and 40 volunteers'

Anyway a blind chimp could see that there was more than 40 fans in our section, and since a rough head count gave 80+ I'll go with our ests

[Lamper.sffc]

I live in what a few councillors have dubbed fingal and I can assure you that I would never ever answer the question "where are you from" with "Fingal" nor do I feel any affiliation with SF. the only time Fingal is on my radar is whem Im putting a Fingal County Council Bin Tag on my wheelie Bin

I Didnt say people answered with. 'we are from Fingal'. Just meant they are aware they are in fingal. As for you feeling no affiliation with SF. Well thats your decision. Which is fine by me. but not all in Fingal feel that way.


what is it that SF are doing differently than all us other imbeciles ?

I Didnt call anybody Imbeciles. Im not going back into everything that has just been said in this thread and others. You can read them for yourself and that will answer your question. By the way different doesnt always mean for the best or better than others. You took it to mean this, not me



take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI

1. You cant take Rosenborg out of the league just so it suits your point. (its also the club we are basing are methods on).
2. Can you back your statement up with facts
3. Average league numbers where over 9,000 in 2006 ( wikipedia )




yes it is The last thing the league needs is another makey uppy club with no fan base going bust in an embarrassing Dublin cityesque fashion

1. All clubs are made up at some stage. Whether its 100 years ago or 6 months.
2. We have a fan base. Not large but its there.
3. We have finances in place for the next 5 years.
4. How did Dublin city going bust embarrass you. Unless you were a fan. And if that is the case then if SF goes bust it wont matter, because like you said "nor do I feel any affiliation with SF" " So happy days for you

Bye bye now


yes it is becuase anything that happens in the league reflexs on us all

Man you didnt make one counter point of worth ( Norway my arse) good point

This is a discussion site and this is the Sportin fingal thread. So whats with the soap box comment. Am i not allowed have an opinion. Im not preaching, im just giving my opinion.

Didnt i just say we where not the ones with the only solution

How does sporting failing reflect on you.

And yes the council did go abroad to check on other clubs. Its a fact. Just saying they didnt doesnt make it so.


Wow I hadn't realised Fingal gave such detailed crowd ests as '475 in total, the breakdown being: 35 Limerick fans, 40 drunk teenagers on the hill, 200 free children, 5 dogs, 20 free councilers, 100 paying fans, 10 cats, 25 pensioners and 40 volunteers'

Anyway a blind chimp could see that there was more than 40 fans in our section, and since a rough head count gave 80+ I'll go with our ests

What ever makes you happy

[Block G Raptor]

1. You cant take Rosenborg out of the league just so it suits your point. (its also the club we are basing are methods on).
2. Can you back your statement up with facts
3. Average league numbers where over 9,000 in 2006 ( wikipedia )

You stated that the league should aspire to the Norwegian League and I merely pointed out that there is one Big Club in the league and all the others compare un-favorably to eL clubs



1. All clubs are made up at some stage. Whether its 100 years ago or 6 months.
2. We have a fan base. Not large but its there.
Not enough and it is my opinion that it will never grow beyond the few hundred that Dublin City used to attract
3. We have finances in place for the next 5 years.
what after that. Look whats happened to Gretna this week
4. How did Dublin city going bust embarrass you.
DCFC's failed experiment was an embarrassment to the entire league and gave the naysayers more ammunition to belittle the rest of us. At least Kilkenny City did the sensible thing and dropped down to re-group

......

[pineapple stu]

He's nothing more than a wum.
I know. But he's funny! Let me play with him a while till I get bored. :)


Maybe you should actually read what santry Goonshow is saying.
I did. He misquoted me and generally talked nonsense which I refuted. Maybe you should read what he and I said?


And please stop talking about Fingal as if you know who and what we are. Nobody you know considers themselves Fingallian. Who is that, BOB SUE AND MICK TOO. I live in the area and alot of people know they are fingallians. The club will also further the identity of Fingal. So talk about something with facts please.
Oooh - good facts! I'm swayed.


A lot of research has gone into getting this club up and running. They have researched successful clubs abroad to see how they do it and are copying their methods.
Did you get Genesis in?


You should be embracing new clubs. The more competitive the league the better.
Wexford are very welcome. They're sustainable. You're an implosion waiting to happen.


but not all in Fingal feel that way.
I live in County Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown. I can guarantee you no-one I know would have any affiliation with a club called Rathdown FC. I can't imagine how it would be any different in Fingal.


take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI
No, no, a thousand times no. Three different clubs have won the league there in the last three years, and Rosenborg ain't one of them. The lowest supported top flight side in Norway still pulls twice our top side (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/current/avenor.htm).


Mod hat on - lamper, there's a multi-quote button beside the reply button. Please use it rather than posting two and three times in succession. Thanks.

[passerrby]

look lamper everybody wishes SF but you must understand your solutions are not sure are a doulble edge sword.
(a) to survive in the EL you must look beyond the community for sponsorship
(b) most parents while happy to drop the kids of at 40miles per hour for training will not
give a rats arse about your EL endevours
)c) you can develope kids for 10 years when they want to go somewhere (GAA or other soccer clubs) they will go without so much as a by or leave.
I am not saying dont try these things im am saying dont expect fantastic results.

[Santry_Goonshow]

Since when did owning stadia become a barometer for the development of youth soccer?

I never said it was, why don't you read my post? Those are two entirely separate points.

[/quote]You're original point was that Shamrock Rovers had no community links. For someone who is making themselves out to be an expert on this topic your comments on this thread, and threads, suggest otherwise.[/quote]

Yes, I stand over my opinion. Numerous moves [Ringsend - Milltown - Tolka - RDS - Morton - Tolka] involved a the fan base getting screwed around. I know former Rovers fans who now just follow Celtic after the farce of their recent history. There was 3 generations of them.

[/quote] When Rovers made the decision to build their new stadium in Tallaght they moved every aspect of the club the vicinity (schoolboy, LSL). They have also created several links with the community, including footballing scholarships in conjunction with ITT. [/quote]

That's all very well but its not an academy structure because SRFC doesn't have any plans like this. "Links with.." is just more of the peripheral rubbish the LOI has suffered over the years. What you want to hear is that SRFC are "investing" in an academy.


[/quote]To dismiss this and label SRFC as having no community links just because you are unaware of them is ignorance. Yet again you show your ignorance for the topic being discussed.[/quote]

I'm sorry, you inability to give me any contradictory facts show that you are the ignorant one. I thought you wanted to discuss football here but its just an attack on me where you are twisting what I said and deliberately not listening.


77/56A/50/65B/77A/54A/201/202/65/49/75

Take your pick.:)

And then maybe the 203, or the 16a. Why not try the old 47a to Tirbradden. You've been everywhere else.

Oh and just because someone doesn't have 200000 posts they must know nothing and be completely new to the game. Ooooh the smugness


[EDIT: Don't quote entire posts. Edit out the stuff that's not relevant. And use multi-post, like you were told. --dahamsta]


Its a shame Lamper that this one is what you call "Civics challenged". If he checks out the 1993 Local Government Act (Dublin) Section 9 he will see that while not in common usage the county of Dublin was abolished and that Fingal is a well defined area with a boundary. Oh well, UCD musn't be teaching them like the old days. And what if UCDs plans point them towards Rathdown FC, that would make it a club for the area not just for the students.

The other things Stu that is disappointing is your tone. Toying with me are you. What a tosser.

Also its a shame you have that you don't want to look at the points being made on their own merits. Prefer the smugness of your well established friendships with the orthodoxy.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Yes, I stand over my opinion. Numerous moves [Ringsend - Milltown - Tolka - RDS - Morton - Tolka] involved a the fan base getting screwed around. I know former Rovers fans who now just follow Celtic after the farce of their recent history. There was 3 generations of them.
While I accept that there are fans of Rovers from the Milltown era that no longer support them, saying that they have no community links is incorrect, even with some of their previous homes. There are various SRFC supporters' clubs over south Dublin and these have maintained links with areas such as Ringsend and Milltown, primarily because that is where they are from themselves. Also, there are many 'closet' Rovers fans who will start attending games in Tallaght because the club now has its own home and don't have to travel to the northside to see them play at 'home'.

Even if the above was untrue, they have numerous links with the Tallaght community. This is not something that is an opinion, it is a fact.


That's all very well but its not an academy structure because SRFC doesn't have any plans like this. "Links with.." is just more of the peripheral rubbish the LOI has suffered over the years. What you want to hear is that SRFC are "investing" in an academy.
Since when was having an academy the only way to have links with the community? Links with the community are exactly what they say they are. You strangely seem to disagree...


I'm sorry, you inability to give me any contradictory facts show that you are the ignorant one. I thought you wanted to discuss football here but its just an attack on me where you are twisting what I said and deliberately not listening.
:D After reading the first 2/3 of your response I thought you may not have been a WUM but the above shows that my initial instinct was correct.

[Lamper.sffc]

Guys. Iv been miss quoted and miss understood. But i guess thats what you want. If you read what i have said, the only attack i have made is on negativity.

I was told by others not to come on this site because there was a certain few who patrol this site like they own it. I now realise that what they meant.

Im looking for constructive conversation. not comments on how i know how to work this site.


Mod hat on - lamper, there's a multi-quote button beside the reply button. Please use it rather than posting two and three times in succession. Thanks.

Im replying to 2 or 3 different comments from 2 or 3 different people. I like to seperate them.

It would be nice for some people to actually come back with an argument other than it wont work because, i think you wont work, You are dublin city, you wont get the crowds.

I like to know how you know this for sure

Tell me why. Give me a reason, or something. Give me facts

But you dont,

I never said SF would work, i just said it was a different approach.


pineapple stu, you truly are a moron. I know you cant help it, but hay we all have our faults


look lamper everybody wishes SF but you must understand your solutions are not sure are a doulble edge sword.
(a) to survive in the EL you must look beyond the community for sponsorship
(b) most parents while happy to drop the kids of at 40miles per hour for training will not
give a rats arse about your EL endevours
)c) you can develope kids for 10 years when they want to go somewhere (GAA or other soccer clubs) they will go without so much as a by or leave.
I am not saying dont try these things im am saying dont expect fantastic results.

I never said it would work. I just said we are copying tried and trusted methods from clubs abroad. Thats all.

Lets see what happens is my attitude.

There is no need to knock it. like so many on here are. (not saying you are)


You stated that the league should aspire to the Norwegian League and I merely pointed out that there is one Big Club in the league and all the others compare un-favorably to eL clubs
......

You actually said
take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI

A little bit different dont you think.
Where are you getting these facts from:confused:

[Santry_Goonshow]

Come on Lamper, courage of your convictions - say what you mean don't be bashed up by Muppetish words and misplaced "non hearing" pedanticism.

SFFC and Wex Youths are doing this LOI thing a different way, a way that works elsewhere in the continent for e.g. that improves all the football in the hinterland in which it exists and builds on that as a resource which attracts fans, marketing and community identification. The Monaghan lad is right, we need to prove ourselves and we should not be unaware of that. However, because we are 1 month old I refuse to accept that we have inferior opinions or that we are the playthings of tossers on the board.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Not enough and it is my opinion that it will never grow beyond the few hundred that Dublin City used to attract

I don't think their crowds will be as bad as Dublin City's. Not 100% sure on this, but if I remember correctly Dublin City's marketing strategy was to have Dublin in the club's name, have the home jersey blue and sell them in Carrolls. I don't think any real marketing/promotion was done by them. Also, when DC got promoted they had to move to Dalymount, which would have hit any increase in crowds promotion would have (however big or small is another matter).

Sporting Fingal seem to be unlike Dublin City. They have appointed a marketing executive, who I think is full time, and do not have over-ambitious goals of reaching the Champions League in five years time. They aim to have an average attendence of 800 this season, and I think that is achievable, although they will probably fall short. One thing they are doing, which Dublin City did not, was locate themselves in a densely populated area, where no EL club is located. The negative side, however, is that their stadium is a few years away still.


Wexford are very welcome. They're sustainable. You're an implosion waiting to happen.
What does sustainable mean in this context- breaking even or surviving?

[pineapple stu]

What does sustainable mean in this context- breaking even or surviving?
Both; they go hand in hand really.

You noted SFFC aimed to have average crowds of 800 or so. Their first paying crowd was 450. That's not going to sustain the kind of squad they have.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Both; they go hand in hand really.

You noted SFFC aimed to have average crowds of 800 or so. Their first paying crowd was 450. That's not going to sustain the kind of squad they have.
Don't know if you're aware but the property developer Gannon is pumping moeny into the club, don't know how much. Would it not be a similar situation to Pats- making a loss but being able to survive?

Gate receipts would make up only a small portion of club's income. Presumably Sporting Fingal will generate other revenue streams. I don't think the 800 figure was only mentioned as a target, not a target they need to survive.

[Lamper.sffc]

Come on Lamper, courage of your convictions - say what you mean don't be bashed up by Muppetish words and misplaced "non hearing" pedanticism.

SFFC and Wex Youths are doing this LOI thing a different way, a way that works elsewhere in the continent for e.g. that improves all the football in the hinterland in which it exists and builds on that as a resource which attracts fans, marketing and community identification. The Monaghan lad is right, we need to prove ourselves and we should not be unaware of that. However, because we are 1 month old I refuse to accept that we have inferior opinions or that we are the playthings of tossers on the board.


Oh im keeping the courage of my convictions.

Just realising why some people warned me off this website.

Wont shut me up though.:cool:

[Block G Raptor]

Gate receipts would make up only a small portion of club's income. Presumably Sporting Fingal will generate other revenue streams. I don't think the 800 figure was only mentioned as a target, not a target they need to survive.

I don't think gate receipts will make up a small percentage of the clubs revenue quite the opposite infact. every club in the eL relies heavily on gate receipts to survive hence the ones like Dublin city and Kilkenny that don't get crowds don't survive. Also all this talk of community fan base etc. FFs Dublin City played in an empty morton stadium and if the locals out there didn't feel an affinity with a club called Dublin city they certainly won't feel an affinity to a club called Fingal

I really hope I'm wrong but I don't think SF will survive long enough to see a stadium in Swords

[Lamper.sffc]

I don't think gate receipts will make up a small percentage of the clubs revenue quite the opposite infact. every club in the eL relies heavily on gate receipts to survive hence the ones like Dublin city and Kilkenny that don't get crowds don't survive. Also all this talk of community fan base etc. FFs Dublin City played in an empty morton stadium and if the locals out there didn't feel an affinity with a club called Dublin city they certainly won't feel an affinity to a club called Fingal

I really hope I'm wrong but I don't think SF will survive long enough to see a stadium in Swords

Financed for the next 5 years. Long enough to get us to swords.

What you are forgetting is that a lot of the support will come from areas like swords, Donabate, Malahide, Skerries, Balbrigan, Rush, Lusk to name but a few. Its not just the outskirts of the city they are aiming for.

Some of the areas i mentioned are big footballing areas with large populations. These areas have never had a club that represents them in the eircom league. Thats one of the reasons dublin city differs from SF.

Dublin city was getting support from the outskirts of the city and in.
( I know there will be exceptions)

While SF is hoping for support from the outskirts of the city and back towards Balbrigan.

Dublin city never represented these towns I mentioned.
SF will in time.

[Block G Raptor]

I doubt very much that you'll be in swords in 5 years
Do you really envisage the hoards traveling from Swords, Donabate, Ballbriggan, wherever to that kip in Santry for the next 5 years. ffs Bohs cant get people from Cabra to go to games nor Shells people from drumcondra etc. what makes you think that they'll travel to Santry for SF did you hear a mystical voice telling you "If you build it they will come"
Also if SF becomes a Money pit in the near future that 5 year funding may just disappear over night. as I said before I really want to be wrong about all this (and I was one of the guillable who thought that dublin city might just be the gimmick to get barstoolers interested) I just think there are far too many similarities between DCFC and SF to be hopefull of a different outcome

Also you say that Dublin City didn't represent the area's in fingal? Fair enough, maybe they didn't, but they did purport to represent a city of 1.5 million people and still they couldn't get 100 to a game.

serious question: what makes you think that Sporting Fingal will get a substantial support base from the 250,000 people of Ballbriggan Swords Donabate etc

[Lamper.sffc]

I doubt very much that you'll be in swords in 5 years.

Based on what knowledge.


Do you really envisage the hoards traveling from Swords, Donabate, Ballbriggan.

Never said hoards. Some fans already are, me included. It only take 20 mins for me to get to santry less if you are from swords.


did you hear a mystical voice telling you " if you build it they will come

What:confused: Good point


and I was one of the guillable who thought that dublin city might just be the gimmick to get barstoolers interested

That just it. It was a gimmick



too many similarities between DCFC and SF to be hopefull of a different outcome

And they are.



Also you say that Dublin City didn't represent the area's in fingal? Fair enough, maybe they didn't, but they did purport to represent a city of 1.5 million people and still they couldn't get 100 to a game.

How many other dublin clubs are in the city.Dublin city spread themselves too thin.
Its not the name they call themselves. Its the area they represent
Sporting are getting more than a hundred ( early days i know)


serious question: what makes you think that Sporting Fingal will get a substantial support base from the 250,000 people of Ballbriggan Swords Donabate etc

Do you read what i say


Some of the areas i mentioned are big footballing areas with large populations. These areas have never had a club that represents them in the eircom league.

[Block G Raptor]

Ok you've obviously missed my point.
to answer your first question as to why I don't believe you'll be in swords in 5 years. couple of reasons. A: Fingal CoCo will have been through a change of councillors and the new council may not be as behind the Idea. B:If the club is not getting good crowds at Morton within say three years it would be a very brave man who would finance a brand new stadium on the assumption that there are a rake of fans out there who won't travel to santry but will come to the new stadium down the road in swords. C: this is Ireland it takes about 5 years to do a bit of roadworks ffs do you really think you'll get all the red tape out of the way and a shiny new stadium within 5 years ?

Now for the similarities between DCFC and Sporting Fingal

1. both were brand new Northside Dublin Club's, Playing originally out of the morton stadium in Santry
2. Both relied on the ill perceived(IMO)notion that they represented a community who were for whatever reasons deprived of an eL club with whom they could Identify.
3. Both spent heavily on Wages in an attempt to gain immediate success(note how wexford and Limerick are going about their squad building)
4.Both were essentially being bankrolled by an individual (who in Dublin City's case got to the stage were he couldn't justify the expenditure any longer)
5. Both were trying to squeeze into an already over crowded market (wrap it up however you want SF are another Dublin Club)
6.Neither had a discernable Fan Base nor a history of junior football to lay the foundations for a fanbase

[Lamper.sffc]

Ok you've obviously missed my point.
to answer your first question as to why I don't believe you'll be in swords in 5 years. couple of reasons. A: Fingal CoCo will have been through a change of councillors and the new council may not be as behind the Idea. B:If the club is not getting good crowds at Morton within say three years it would be a very brave man who would finance a brand new stadium on the assumption that there are a rake of fans out there who won't travel to santry but will come to the new stadium down the road in swords. C: this is Ireland it takes about 5 years to do a bit of roadworks ffs do you really think you'll get all the red tape out of the way and a shiny new stadium within 5 years ?

Now for the similarities between DCFC and Sporting Fingal

1. both were brand new Northside Dublin Club's, Playing originally out of the morton stadium in Santry
2. Both relied on the ill perceived(IMO)notion that they represented a community who were for whatever reasons deprived of an eL club with whom they could Identify.
3. Both spent heavily on Wages in an attempt to gain immediate success(note how wexford and Limerick are going about their squad building)
4.Both were essentially being bankrolled by an individual (who in Dublin City's case got to the stage were he couldn't justify the expenditure any longer)
5. Both were trying to squeeze into an already over crowded market (wrap it up however you want SF are another Dublin Club)
6.Neither had a discernable Fan Base nor a history of junior football to lay the foundations for a fanbase


I understood you fine.

I take all your points and some I would agree with.
Not all, but we could do this all day and still get nowhere

Lets just leave it there. Until the next argument;)

Lets wait and see where we are in 5 years.

So i can prove you wrong:D

[Block G Raptor]

Lets wait and see where we are in 5 years.

So i can prove you wrong:D

Heart and sole I really hope you do prove me wrong! I'll be keeping a keen eye on SF in the First Div as I suppose I've kind of adopted them as my second team
I just think I've seen all this before and it didn't end well

I think what Fingal are doing has a lot creditable aspects that would certainly be great for a regional club somewhere like Mullingar that don't have an established club
but I think the Biggest problem with Fingal is they are trying to tap into a perceived Community that I don't think exists in an already crowded marketplace

[Santry_Goonshow]

Now for the similarities between DCFC and Sporting Fingal

1. both were brand new Northside Dublin Club's, Playing originally out of the morton stadium in Santry
2. Both relied on the ill perceived(IMO)notion that they represented a community who were for whatever reasons deprived of an eL club with whom they could Identify.
3. Both spent heavily on Wages in an attempt to gain immediate success(note how wexford and Limerick are going about their squad building)
4.Both were essentially being bankrolled by an individual (who in Dublin City's case got to the stage were he couldn't justify the expenditure any longer)
5. Both were trying to squeeze into an already over crowded market (wrap it up however you want SF are another Dublin Club)
6.Neither had a discernable Fan Base nor a history of junior football to lay the foundations for a fanbase

I have to be careful, apparantly disagreement with other posters is WUMMING or in some ways constitutes a personal attack. Sort of like being Jewish in 1933 was a crime against the state in Germany [historical fact] and not aimed at anyone in particular so not a personal attack. Krystallnacht if you wish.

1. Both on the Northside:) Hmmm. A bit superficial eh? And SFFC is taking its catchment from the north of Santry i.e. the county, while DCFC took its from south of Santry - thus the name Dublin City.... and the name Fingal. Oh well. Better not mention the 1993 local government act coz facts get deleted here

2. Representing a community deprived of LOI football, agree in the case of DCFC who were nestled in the same suburbs as Bohs, SRFC, Shelbourne. Blatantly wrong in the case of SFFC, no LOI soccer for 12kms south (Shelbourne) and 60kms north (Drogheda)

3. SFFC is outlaying a fair bit over a short period of time on wages, but you can't not try to compete, especially with only 8 weeks to prepare for entry. Fingal County Councils soccer plan has, within 5 years players of an extremely high standard coming through. DCFC had more of the traditional necrotic "links" to youth football, not supporting teams and not taking the academy approch and allowing the players stay with their neighbourhood clubs as they develop. {ahh I'm sick of explaining this - go look it up before yous decide to flame me}

4. Wrong again. SFFC bankrolled by a consortium of Keelings, Anglo Irish bank and Ger Gannon. Even without the latter they have a bigger level of investment that DCFC ever had. But don't let's stop there

5. Overcrowded market, an opinion I can see and hear often but not really the case. Look at it this way Dublin used to have twice as many teams. Cork used to have 4 teams!

6. The only point I can take seriously, however, there are 55 clubs now going in Fingal at all levels and the SFFC (if you care to find out about it) is to Unite them under the SFFC flag.

Fan to club ratios
Athlone POP = 15,000 - 1 team, 1:35000, surrounding areas included
Limerick POP = 91,000 - 1 team, 1:110000, using town plus
Cork POP = 190,000 - 2 teams, 1:95000, using Cork plus suburbs
Kildare POP = 186,000 - 1 team, 1:186000, pop of whole county
Dundalk POP = 29,000 - 1 team 1:35000, town area plus outlying area
Drogheda POP = 29,000 - 1 team 1:38000, town area plus outlying area
Finn Harps POP = 150,000 - 1 team 1:150000, being really generous here using County Donegals population
Dublin City and 3 counties POP = 1,187,000 - 6 teams 1:197833

No matter what you do by league of Ireland norms Dublin has an undersupply of teams. This holds for urban and rural norms too

[pineapple stu]

Don't know if you're aware but the property developer Gannon is pumping moeny into the club, don't know how much. Would it not be a similar situation to Pats- making a loss but being able to survive?
Don't know if you're aware, but Gretna have effectively gone tits up following the same business plan.

Continually making a loss and being sustainable are pretty much mutually exclusive. Even Pat's and Drogs fans accept that. Even Chelsea accept that.


I don't think gate receipts will make up a small percentage of the clubs revenue quite the opposite infact. every club in the eL relies heavily on gate receipts to survive hence the ones like Dublin city and Kilkenny that don't get crowds don't survive.
Wrong again, I'm afraid.

Bohs, for example, had expenditure last season of about E1.5m. Gate receipts were E250k. Other income was about E600k.

You say that small clubs fold because of small gate receipts. Incorrect IMO - they fold because of a resultant lack of people to run the off-field side of things.


[B]I have to be careful, apparantly disagreement with other posters is WUMMING or in some ways constitutes a personal attack.
Calling someone a tosser while ignoring all the points they raise may just constitute a personal attack, don't you think?

[Santry_Goonshow]

You say that small clubs fold because of small gate receipts. Incorrect IMO - they fold because of a resultant lack of people to run the off-field side of things.


Calling someone a tosser while ignoring all the points they raise may just constitute a personal attack, don't you think?


1. The gate receipts thing is right. Even in the shoestring financing of the LOI most income is from sponsorship, promotions and player sales combined and the trend is going even more in that direction.

2. Your points weren't ignored, I just don't agree with them. You and six others flaming me and accusing me of ignorance isn't fun, especially as I know a good deal and just want to discuss. I cannot pick your replies out from the other eight and give individual answers. I have the same motivation as everyone else here - discuss and learn. Pineapple Stu saying you are toying with people is arrogance. If you don't like frank excahnges of views then just ask "the moderator" to cut off new memberships. No fun when people falsely accuse me of Wumming either, especially when he uses choice language as well, doesn't quite care about flaming and has a false definition of TROLLING. Oh well we can but try.

[Lamper.sffc]

Don't know if you're aware, but Gretna have effectively gone tits up following the same plan

Gretna = very small fish in a very large pond

The difference between SF and the rest of the clubs around us is not as vast

Id imagine the costs of running gretna in the top flight of the scottish league
is a little more than here.

[pineapple stu]

Gretna = very small fish in a very large pond

The difference between SF and the rest of the clubs around us is not as vast
Doesn't matter how big or not a club and its league is; any club being bankrolled by a millionaire is not sustainable.

[osarusan]

Doesn't matter how big or not a club and its league is; any club being bankrolled by a millionaire is not sustainable.
It depends what you mean by 'sustainable', but how about Chelsea?

[Lamper.sffc]

Doesn't matter how big or not a club and its league is

It does matter. If the running costs for gretna in the SPL are far greater than SF in the EL. Then when the money from an investor dries up its a much further fall for gretna than it would be for SF

Blackburn didnt go out of business when Jack walker died. They did have a slump but they came back from it.