Don Givens: Stick or Sack?

[TheBoss]

I personally think that he should be let go of his duties, one question has to be answered here, are the players gaining the best possible experience, I think not, they lose more games than win under him and that can not be good for the players to gain A-international caps, cause the management might be fearful that the players are not up to the standards cause they are playing in a losing team, if they were in a winning team, that would help their cause.

Here is Givens Record:

2000: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 0; L: 6
2001: Pld: 05 - W: 2; D: 1; L: 2
2002: Pld: 04 - W: 1; D: 0; L: 3
2003: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 2; L: 4
2004: Pld: 09 - W: 5; D: 1; L: 3
2005: Pld: 05 - W: 0; D: 2; L: 3
2006: Pld: 09 - W: 6; D: 0; L: 3
2007: Pld: 09 - W: 3; D: 2; L: 4
2008: Pld: 01 - W: 0; D: 1; L: 0

TOTAL: Pld: 58; W: 21; D: 9; L: 28

[Soper]

I wish people made demands for him to go like they did for Kerr and Staunton...maybe then he would get the boot

[Serb]

Wow, didn't realise he lost that many games. That's a win ratio of 36% and a loss ratio of 50% - there aren't many managers that would survive as long as he has with that kind of record.

[theworm2345]

I don't care what his record is, he ****es another player off every year...get rid of him

[sligoman]

He is ****e alright but no way would the FAI get rid of such a great servant/friend of Delaney's:rolleyes:.

[Claret Murph]

As far as I would say it has gone past the time to get rid of him and he has way over stayed his welcome :mad::mad::mad:

[ifk101]

Givens' job brief is get the U21 team putting in "good performances" and to test new players with the senior team in mind.

This idea of "good performances" has become accepted jargon for the reason why we lose matches but winning and "good performances" are not mutually exclusive. I think if a team is putting in "good performances" they should be capable of winning matches now and then.

Our pick of players at this level isn't that bad - I know the team were missing a few players last night but the team that played have plenty of first-team experience with their respective clubs.

Our other underage teams have shown it's possible to win games and qualify for tournaments - why not the U21s?

I think it's time for a change.

[Razors left peg]

After seeing the game last night I really thing there isnt a shred of team spirit in the u21 team.... that should be the minimum that a manager should achieve. The players dont look like they want to play for him

[elroy]

Ya i remember someone on the rte panel praising him recently as well stating how tough a job he has considering any decent player he has is called up to the senior squad. That point is probably fair enough but still considering that his record is very poor.

[BigmanCas]

He is a clown. Everyone is sick to the back teeth of him. He should've got the boot long ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is a clown.

[Carrigaline]

After seeing the game last night I really thing there isnt a shred of team spirit in the u21 team
Yep. Stokes looked like he wasn't bothered at all. The only spark we saw was when Leon Best got on and started getting stuck in.

[GavinZac]

Sacking, and preferably deportation.

[jbyrne]

would be interesting to compare his record to that of the u21s from a country of similar football stature. id say it doesnt compare too badly to be honest. only the big countrys such as england, italy, germany etc excel at u21 level as they can afford to leave their better young players with the u21s rather than fast tracking them to the senior team. another easy target for Irish football fans i think

to compare them to our other underage teams is unfair as they dont have to compete with the senior team for use of players

[ifk101]

Givens isn't an easy target - he's been in the job many a year now and the results haven't been good enough. He has stated that England aren't 15 points better than us but that's where we are under his leadership - 15 points behind England.

If the Welsh are able to win matches at U21 level why can't we?

[WembleyGreen]

Another U21 game, another dismal result, is'nt it clear that Givens can't take this role any further? Brady was there last night watching and hopefully he has seen enough to end Givens role in this important facet of our international set up. These players are on a hiding to nothing with Givens at the helm, no spirit, no ambition, no hope. All they are doing is gaining a losing mentality, as if our senior lot hadn't got one already! Fair play to McCaffrey and the U17's at least he has got them competing and actually qualifying but then they are passed on to Givens who either p****s them off or turns them into losers. If we are ever to have a decent senior team we HAVE to have a system in place and a management team that can bring on the next generation of players and not waste their talents and saddle them with a lack of confidence and inferiority which in turn affects their progress to senior level. Sack Givens and get a decent underage coach who has his finger on the pulse and not some 70's leftover still rooted in the bad old days of FAI mismanagement!

[GavinZac]

would be interesting to compare his record to that of the u21s from a country of similar football stature. id say it doesnt compare too badly to be honest. only the big countrys such as england, italy, germany etc excel at u21 level as they can afford to leave their better young players with the u21s rather than fast tracking them to the senior team. another easy target for Irish football fans i think

to compare them to our other underage teams is unfair as they dont have to compete with the senior team for use of players

Which U21 players have been fast tracked to the seniors?

[eirebhoy]

Which U21 players have been fast tracked to the seniors?
McShane, Stokes, McGeady, Ireland, Long, J.O'Brien, Gibson, Keogh... off the top of my head.

[tetsujin1979]

Which U21 players have been fast tracked to the seniors?
Duff, Dunne, Robbie Keane have a handful of U-21 caps between them, I'd be shocked if their combined total got into double figures

[Jerry The Saint]

Duff, Dunne, Robbie Keane have a handful of U-21 caps between them, I'd be shocked if their combined total got into double figures

Even allowing for losing these and other key players, here's Givens' record with the 'Golden Generation' of players that won medals under Kerr.

2000: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 0; L: 6
2001: Pld: 05 - W: 2; D: 1; L: 2
2002: Pld: 04 - W: 1; D: 0; L: 3
2003: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 2; L: 4


He's done more to p!ss players off than bring them through to the senior squad during his 8 years in the job.

And if you want to compare our most recent results to those of similar football nations...

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/under21/standings/index.html



Looks like the Don has a job for life now after, eventually, landing Trappattoni (despite the FAI going behind his back to approach Trap - his ulimate contribution to the process seems to be going for a nice meal with Trap, Ray and Don Eile).

Tardelli has an excellent record with the Italian U-21s - if the process wasn't hamstrung by a conflict of interests this should have been part of the deal for his involvement with Ireland.

[RogerMilla]

lads givens will always have a job from the FAI , the amount of capital he has made due to the "trap" coup will see him right for along time...

[sullanefc]

sack him

[jbyrne]

Even allowing for losing these and other key players, here's Givens' record with the 'Golden Generation' of players that won medals under Kerr.

2000: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 0; L: 6
2001: Pld: 05 - W: 2; D: 1; L: 2
2002: Pld: 04 - W: 1; D: 0; L: 3
2003: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 2; L: 4



and how many of that "golden generation" went on to play at the top level anywhere (except dunne, duff and keane who more or less went straight to the seniors)?

[jmurphyc]

and how many of that "golden generation" went on to play at the top level anywhere (except dunne, duff and keane who more or less went straight to the seniors)?

How many of any generation do so? The percentage of youth team players who make it in the game is very low. Givens is a very poor underage manager IMO.

[jbyrne]

How many of any generation do so? The percentage of youth team players who make it in the game is very low. Givens is a very poor underage manager IMO.

the point was being alleged that givens had done nothing with that so called "golden generation" of players. my point is that they hardly went on to great things with their clubs either..... or should givens be held responsible for that also?

the bigger countrys u21s usually provide a host of players to the seniors, whether a golden generation or not. our u21s are made up of a few hopefulls and the rest dont have any chance of progressing..... thats what our u21 manager always had and always will have to work with. any decent u21 player in Ireland will more or less go straight to the seniors given our limited pool of senior players

[saint morrissey]

I personally think that he should be let go of his duties, one question has to be answered here, are the players gaining the best possible experience, I think not, they lose more games than win under him and that can not be good for the players to gain A-international caps, cause the management might be fearful that the players are not up to the standards cause they are playing in a losing team, if they were in a winning team, that would help their cause.

Here is Givens Record:

2000: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 0; L: 6
2001: Pld: 05 - W: 2; D: 1; L: 2
2002: Pld: 04 - W: 1; D: 0; L: 3
2003: Pld: 08 - W: 2; D: 2; L: 4
2004: Pld: 09 - W: 5; D: 1; L: 3
2005: Pld: 05 - W: 0; D: 2; L: 3
2006: Pld: 09 - W: 6; D: 0; L: 3
2007: Pld: 09 - W: 3; D: 2; L: 4
2008: Pld: 01 - W: 0; D: 1; L: 0

TOTAL: Pld: 58; W: 21; D: 9; L: 28

england beat us this year too.

[razor]

He should be bundled into a sack and then beaten with the stick.

[carloz]

It is beyond a joke at this stage. It seems he is almost unsackable. We are gaining absolutly nothing by having him there, and in essence we are damagin important players for our future. Looking at the team that started last night, and it was very strong IMO. Why cant he live and die on his results like every under 21 manager in the world. IMO the under 21 manager should be someone who could possibly one day take over the senior team. That wont happen with Givens so why the hell should we have to put up with him. It annoys me to quite an extent

[TheBoss]

england beat us this year too.

He was not in charge for that game.

[micls]

He should be bundled into a sack and then beaten with the stick.

Seconded

[rambler14]

Sack!!!!!!!!!!!

[Serb]

And if you want to compare our most recent results to those of similar football nations...

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/under21/standings/index.html

Fairly damning stuff there, on a par with International powerhouses such as Albania, Armenia, Cyprus, Latvia and Moldova. The only other team that looks like they are performing below par is Switzerland, and they have 3 points more than us.

[Razors left peg]

Wales have 2 more games left in their group, home and away to Romania and if the just win one they will top the group that involves France..... thats what can be achieved. Im sick of hearing that all or best players get fast tracked into the senior team so we cant compete properly. The excuses have to stop, Don Givens is adding nothing to any of our young players developments and has to go. Having just done more coaching badges though ,which held up the search for the senior manager ,there is no hope of him gettin the boot in my opinion. He is a good FAI company man that doesnt rock the boat.
I would love to see us follow Englands example in appointing a young hungry manager that wants to develope himself as well as the players he is in charge off. Some one who has ambition to get results so that he might be considered for the senior job at some stage.I would love to see us go along the lines of Kenny Cunningham, Andy Townsend or Matty Holland. They have no experience but its better than a old guy that is past it and doesnt have an ounce of ambition left, and I really dont think any manager with a decent track record would take a step down to manage an under 21 team.I also know that appointing a manager with zero experience mightnt work either, like with Staunton but he was a complete clown with what seemed to be zero football knowledge

[Greenforever]

It is beyond a joke at this stage. It seems he is almost unsackable. We are gaining absolutly nothing by having him there, and in essence we are damagin important players for our future. Looking at the team that started last night, and it was very strong IMO. Why cant he live and die on his results like every under 21 manager in the world. IMO the under 21 manager should be someone who could possibly one day take over the senior team. That wont happen with Givens so why the hell should we have to put up with him. It annoys me to quite an extent


Forgive me but he's damaging important players for the future??

Do you mean Anthony Stokes and Stephen Ireland??

Players who do not have any interest in playing for thier country and get found out an an early age?

Don's job at U21 is to give experience to young players and to liase in this manner with the senior team manager. Results at this age are irrelevant and his continued employment shoud be decided by El Trap as it is he who should ultimately decide on who he wants to be played and what style etc he wants the team to paly and then the manager should carry out his instructions.

IMO too much emphasis is put on results at a level virtually no major country takes seriously unless they are suddenly in the last 4 of a tournament.

[Razors left peg]

Forgive me but he's damaging important players for the future??

Do you mean Anthony Stokes and Stephen Ireland??

Players who do not have any interest in playing for thier country and get found out an an early age?

Don's job at U21 is to give experience to young players and to liase in this manner with the senior team manager. Results at this age are irrelevant and his continued employment shoud be decided by El Trap as it is he who should ultimately decide on who he wants to be played and what style etc he wants the team to paly and then the manager should carry out his instructions.

IMO too much emphasis is put on results at a level virtually no major country takes seriously unless they are suddenly in the last 4 of a tournament.
what makes you say that Stokes has no interest in playing for his country??
You say that results arent important but surely getting the players to perform to a good standard is very important. Theres no point in saying that he just has to give them experience.... I could do his job if that was the case, just pick the best 11 possible and send them out onto the pitch with no proper instruction. Trapattonis job is to look after the senior team and yes to liase with the under21 manager but at the end of the day its Givens that is being paid to manage that team

[Greenforever]

what makes you say that Stokes has no interest in playing for his country??
You say that results arent important but surely getting the players to perform to a good standard is very important. Theres no point in saying that he just has to give them experience.... I could do his job if that was the case, just pick the best 11 possible and send them out onto the pitch with no proper instruction. Trapattonis job is to look after the senior team and yes to liase with the under21 manager but at the end of the day its Givens that is being paid to manage that team


Didn't he have a falling out with Givens? And similarly with Keane at Sunderland? If my memory serves me correctly both took a hard line with Stokes. If you want to play for your country it's a good idea to try and stay on the right side of your manager and if you don't to make ammends at the earliest opportunity.

Yes getting the players to perform to a good standard is important but as I said it is for the senior manager to lay down what he wants to see and if Givens doesnt do as instructed he should go. Therefore the postition really should be under the control of Trap.

[Razors left peg]

Didn't he have a falling out with Givens? And similarly with Keane at Sunderland? If my memory serves me correctly both took a hard line with Stokes. If you want to play for your country it's a good idea to try and stay on the right side of your manager and if you don't to make ammends at the earliest opportunity.

Yes getting the players to perform to a good standard is important but as I said it is for the senior manager to lay down what he wants to see and if Givens doesnt do as instructed he should go. Therefore the postition really should be under the control of Trap.

Stokes missed one game and his club manager took the blame for that and said it was a misunderstanding,Givens dropped him from the next game and the lad has been in every squad since.To say he doesnt want to play for his country is a ridiculous statement

[Jamjar]

Wow, didn't realise he lost that many games. That's a win ratio of 36% and a loss ratio of 50% - there aren't many managers that would survive as long as he has with that kind of record.

At least he's consistent !! Look at his win ratio for Xamax neuchatal here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Givens#Managerial_stats

[Greenforever]

Stokes missed one game and his club manager took the blame for that and said it was a misunderstanding,Givens dropped him from the next game and the lad has been in every squad since.To say he doesnt want to play for his country is a ridiculous statement


I stand corrected, I remember the incident now, but I also doubt the excuse given by Keane was true, and if right didnt Keane have problems with him since.

However I withdraw my remarks about him not wanting to plat for his country. To err is human to forgfive is divine...

[Razors left peg]

I stand corrected, I remember the incident now, but I also doubt the excuse given by Keane was true, and if right didnt Keane have problems with him since.

However I withdraw my remarks about him not wanting to plat for his country. To err is human to forgfive is divine...

you're forgiven.... just dont do it again:D

[pete]

Givens Out.

- Any time I have seen U21s play they do not have shape or obvious tactics.
- Take out the Toulon tournament results & record looks even worse.
- He is not expected to beat England but I think we can expect better against Montenegro
- U15, U16 & U17 teams are performing better.
- Public fallings out with young players too often.

The one thing I fail to understand is how he has got away with only managing 1 team that has so few games at year. Sean McCaffrey takes charge of multiple teams with more games because he consistently gets into elite qualifiers.

The only reason he keeps his job is because he is a Yes man.

[SkStu]

its a non-issue. SACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Razors idea for the manner of the sacking sounds best. LOL

[Ordinary Fan]

Sack Givens and give the job to Kerr, who always got the best out of younger players.

[Jerry The Saint]

Shouldn't there be a poll (the results could be Venables-esque in their one-sidedness)?

If there is, this should definitely be one of the options :)


He should be bundled into a sack and then beaten with the stick.

[jbyrne]

give the job to Kerr, who always got the best out of younger players.

not a bad idea but i would imagine kerr has burnt his fai bridges to be honest. appears just a little bitter about his Irish management experience!

[Oink]

Forgive me but he's damaging important players for the future??

Do you mean Anthony Stokes and Stephen Ireland??

Players who do not have any interest in playing for thier country and get found out an an early age?

Don's job at U21 is to give experience to young players and to liase in this manner with the senior team manager. Results at this age are irrelevant and his continued employment shoud be decided by El Trap as it is he who should ultimately decide on who he wants to be played and what style etc he wants the team to paly and then the manager should carry out his instructions.

IMO too much emphasis is put on results at a level virtually no major country takes seriously unless they are suddenly in the last 4 of a tournament.

Why bother even having an Ireland u21's team so.... sure we should all just go to the pub instead and have a nice chat. It's people with the same mentality as you who make a complete cowsarse of everything.

Winning breeds confidence and confidence brings out the best in players, if our young players get used to winning when playing for Ireland they will carry that through their senior international careers.

A lot of player's come on leaps and bounds in the early - mid 20's, Joleon Lescott is a prime example... first cap for England when he was 24, before that he was consistently in the u21's or B-Team.

Ireland dont have stregnth in depth.. so the development of our u21 team is particularily important when compared to nations with a high volume of quality players to select from.

[pete]

Results are important up to a point. If the U21s fail to get past pre qualifiers will have very few competitive games. Also by failing to compete anywhere near the top of the tables the team has no crunch games to test players under pressure.

[Wolfie]

Don Trapp and his family of advisors could possibly acquire a view on Don Givenso in the near future.....................and a cement mixer.