Who do you think are the most overrated members of the Irish squad?

[eirebhoy]

Nah I'd rather Kelly over O'Brien for right full. O'Brien isn't a right full. O'Shea did well enough there under Stan though.

[tetsujin1979]

Joey O'Brien played centre midfield for Bolton again last night, I don't think he's played right full in some time now

[lionelhutz]

What makes you think that? The fans rate Kelly as one of their better players. He's played more games than any Birmingham player this season. He did well at centre half against Arsenal too.

I've seen him a few times this season and granted he seems to be paying well at the moment. But I believe he's just having a good run of form which will end sooner rather than later. I don't think he has the reading of the game - which is essential for a full back - to permanently play at a high level

[ifk101]

Joey O'Brien played centre midfield for Bolton again last night, I don't think he's played right full in some time now

Aye but he can play there. And so can Paul McShane. The good thing about that position is that we have a number of options if Finnan doesn't come back. We unfortunately don't have that many options for the centre half position so getting Andy O'Brien back is a priority.

[Kingdom]

We will have options if Andy O'brien returns to the flock I think. His return would free up , in my opinion, John O'Shea for one of the full back positions. I would prefer Kilbane to O'Shea at left back while I'd have O'Shea over Kelly at right back.

[BigmanCas]

What makes you think that? The fans rate Kelly as one of their better players. He's played more games than any Birmingham player this season. He did well at centre half against Arsenal too.


Absolute nonsense. S Kelly is a walking liability. He is not international class. Thank god he made contact with the ball when he tackled Robino in the box (2nd half v Brazil) because if he didn't there would have been a serious injury. He gave away 3 penalties in the first half of the season and was lucky not to give away 3 or 4 more. Not to mention his shocking performances at LB last September. EB I thought you were the sage of this site? O Shea, Mc Shane, O Brien all before Kelly.

[jbyrne]

Thank god he made contact with the ball when he tackled Robino in the box (2nd half v Brazil) because if he didn't there would have been a serious injury

couldnt you say that about any tackle? making a tackle is about winning the ball, he did so whats the problem exactly?

and you acuse others of talking nonsense

[tetsujin1979]

Thank god he made contact with the ball when he tackled Robino in the box (2nd half v Brazil) because if he didn't there would have been a serious injury.Are you complaining that he made a decent tackle?

Not to mention his shocking performances at LB last September.So a right fullback, who can't play the ball with his left foot, plays badly at left full? Big shock there. If anyone was at fault for that, it was Stan for playing him there in the first place.

O Shea, Mc Shane, O Brien all before Kelly.When was the last time O'Shea played right full, for club or country? McShane has only played there a handful of times this season for Sunderland, and doesn't have the pace to be a full back. O'Brien is now playing regularly in central midfield, where he's on record stating it's where he's most comfortable.

[placid casual]

duff- by some considerable margin
keane- never really shows enogh goal threat

[Over the post]

Kevin Doyle?

He works hard and had a superb season for Reading last year but has never really done the business for Ireland on a consistent basis.

[tetsujin1979]

Kevin Doyle?

He works hard and had a superb season for Reading last year but has never really done the business for Ireland on a consistent basis.
5 goals in 15 games is consistent enough for any striker.

[tetsujin1979]

keane- never really shows enogh goal threatIf he didn't show a "goal threat", he'd never score

[Over the post]

5 goals in 15 games is consistent enough for any striker.

Shane Long and Stephen Ireland both have better goals per game ratios.

I'm not saying he's not a good striker but there was a time a lot of people were arguing he was a better option than Keane who, for all his faults, is still the most gifted striker available to us.

[eirebhoy]

Absolute nonsense.
What's nonsense? The only part of that short post where I gave my opinion was in saying he played well at centre half against Arsenal.

[Dr. Ogba]

More often than not he's one of our best performers. More often than not he's one of his clubs best performers. Bar his time at Spurs really.

was disagreeing with his comment that Andy Reid is overrated. I, personally, think he's the best thing since sliced bread (sliced bread not being around any more since Andy ate all of it....)

[Dr. Ogba]

I couldn't disagree more with that comment. Finnan is the best full back we've had since Denis Irwin was in his prime and now we have a Birmingham right full with no sense of positioning to replace him. Ya we won't miss him at all.....................

Kelly will be in the chamionship next season whether Birmingham get relegated or not. McLeish will get rid of him if they stay up


Finnan was brilliant around the time of the WC in 2002 but since then has flattered to deceive. Granted he was played out of position quite a bit but I honestly cant remember a game since then that he has impressed for Ireland...

[lofty9]

Never thought much of Finnans performances for Ireland. Average at best. Was in Russia for game after the World Cup and he didn't even look like a footballer, he was awful, that performance is my abiding memory of him. I can't recall any performance in which he excelled in a green shirt. He may play well for Liverpool but it ends there.

[Billsthoughts]

i can see oshea playing ctre half for us under the new management and i reckon with the right guidance he'll do ok there. gets too much critisism from some on here imo
Agree with this. He deffo has talent. Lacks concentration and aggressiveness.



I wouldn't worry about the future of the Senior team. More and more promising youngsters are coming through. Paramount to this is the continued improvement in the domestic league. I've come round to this way of thinking. Truth be told I'd actively discourage young fellas joining the likes of United Arsenal and Liverpool unless they are truely exceptional. I'm talking Messi exceptional as opposed to Stokes exceptional here! thinking back to when i was a schoolboy and the amount of genuinely regular players who went to England, its not funny.
Great post


This board seems to be very anti-Hunt which is odd. At international level he's done fine. Some average performances, some great performances. I don't think he's underrated.

I think there is a snob factor amongst some fans when it comes to Hunt. They feel they know soooo much about football and appreciate the nuances of a fine player more than your average Joe. So it drives them mad when Hunt just comes on and gets on with the job in hand getting a good reaction from the crowd in the process. Hunt has doen well for us. If only are more talented players had some of his attitude. Maybe that will change under Trapp. Anyways the title of this thread sums up everything thats wrong with the Irish football fan imo. We seem to wallow in negativity.

[paul_oshea]

No its not bill, someone else mentioned it before, but the youth setup at arsenal is savage, and a player could never develop as quickly our as good at an EL setup as he could at the likes of Arsenal, even if he gets shipped on.....

castaways at big clubs will always get picked up by other clubs ( solely on the name of there they have come from a lot of the time it seems ), whereas someone in the EL at 21 or 22 would have to be immense to get plucked by an English club, bar a few exceptions.

[Billsthoughts]

Well I suppose you have to make the leap of faith that if more of our above average players stay in the league then the higher the standard with the knock on effect that the standout players ar eof a higher calibre? Therefore Premier League or European teams would be looking in the league for good players.

[jbyrne]

Kilbane - Overrated. I don't think he adds anything. Can't pass, can't control play, can't tackle. Best he can do is unsettle people (or just crack open Schweinstiegers head).

Carsley - Fairly rated. He does a job that until S.Reid came back was unfillable by anyone else.


kilbane... the easy target for so many on here. rated fairly imo. never outstanding but always solid. would be missed from current Irish squad

S. Reid. how many times has reid even played for us never mind played in carsleys position? jury out on him big time. his debut v croatia was up there with butlers v czech rep as the worst ive ever seen. did a bit as an impact sub in wc 02 but little or nothing since. i hear so much about steven reid being the solution to some of our midfield problems that i wonder was i in a coma for a few years and missed some outstanding irish performances from him!

[paul_oshea]

Well I suppose you have to make the leap of faith that if more of our above average players stay in the league then the higher the standard with the knock on effect that the standout players ar eof a higher calibre? Therefore Premier League or European teams would be looking in the league for good players.

Bill this is a fair point, but its not what I am getting at, well not in the way I meant it to. I was saying that I think a player of 15, 16, 17 would learn a lot more with the structure they have in place at Arsenal, than an EL club. I would be all for the idea, that the EL clubs come to an agreement that if a player who has been with an EL club for a few years up until 15 or 16 and then a club like arsenal came in for that player, after 2 years at there youth structured get loaned back to EL clubs for a couple of years. This benefits the league ( good players staying around for longer, and there benefiting the skill level of the EL, i know there is an issue around well what about the players who have stayed at home i.e. werent seen as good enough having their place taken by someone who went abroad) and the players, and probably the premiership club, becuase they might not be quite ready at 18 or so.....I cant ever see something like this happening unfortunately, but I definitely think there are ideas like this that would be brilliant if put into place, while we dont have a clairefontaine or such like.

[eirebhoy]

Reid has played 8 games for us in the last 4 years so we're hardly judging him on his Ireland performances.

[tetsujin1979]

Anyways the title of this thread sums up everything thats wrong with the Irish football fan imo. We seem to wallow in negativity.
Good thing you're so positive so

[Billsthoughts]

Good thing you're so positive so

where have I been negative?

[tricky_colour]

Pessimists are rarely disappointed.

[OwlsFan]

Good thing you're so positive so

:D :D

[paul_oshea]

maybe he is just a depressed optimist?!

[Billsthoughts]

Maybe the little clique on the Ireland forum dont like any other point of view than their own...

[paul_oshea]

who are in the clique bill?! Looking forward to this :D

BMC must be the leader.....

[Billsthoughts]

BMC is my leader anyways....:)

[BigmanCas]

I am an open and frank person who has no problem listening to and accepting other peoples opinion. It just so happens that I believe that Paulie and Billy rarely post sensible opinion. I might go over the top on McG at times and I accept that. (I am the same with D Wallace and P Harrington I might add!). It just bothers me that while we want or better players to perform, some of us loose sight of the fact that other players just aren't good enough. I am merely here to point out these players. Thats all. Bill got me booked twice - (and to quote Keane after the Shearer incident) - "I was the fool for reacting".

[kingdom hoop]

It just so happens that I believe that Paulie and Billy rarely post sensible opinion.

Yeah, definitely over-rated.

[Billsthoughts]

Did I???? It wasnt intentional. I didnt even know they did that infraction thing til I got one myself.

[ifk101]

Bill got me booked twice - (and to quote Keane after the Shearer incident) - "I was the fool for reacting".

But Celtic haven't played Arsenal lately so I don't how Bill could of got you booked twice Aiden.

[geysir]

Bill got me booked twice - (and to quote Keane after the Shearer incident) - "I was the fool for reacting".
Bill's a diving cheat?

[Shedender81]

Chaps .. any thoughts on Shay Given... Over rated .. Why has top team never come in for him... He has spent 10 years at Newcastle and played in a poor Irish side for the last 3 or 4 years...

His hero status is a bit over hyped .. good keeper yes.... superstar... show me your medals SHAY !!!

[geysir]

Very very brave post for a newcomer Shedender.

Playing in a poor Irish team doesn't make you a poor goalkeeper, it has made him stand out more as the consummate pro.

In 2005 he made the EPL team of the year but Cech made the world goalkeeper of the year and Shay nowhere in that top 10.

Apart from his lack of ability to deal with pass backs we are blessed to have the man as a goalkeeper. He is our superstar and for our purposes he is not overrated.

[BigmanCas]

Apart from his lack of ability to deal with pass backs we are blessed to have the man as a goalkeeper.

He is an all rounder with great attributes, one of which is his ability to deal with the pass back. Recently against Man Utd, Taylor passed back a bullet to him and he tried his best to deal with it. Result bad - not many other examples. If there was one issue - maybe his height and his ability to deal with the cross. All in all a legend, and a good Donegal man. Tir Chonaill Abu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[boovidge]

Chaps .. any thoughts on Shay Given... Over rated .. Why has top team never come in for him... He has spent 10 years at Newcastle and played in a poor Irish side for the last 3 or 4 years...

His hero status is a bit over hyped .. good keeper yes.... superstar... show me your medals SHAY !!!

Sure Newcastle are a top club ;)

[eirebhoy]

He is an all rounder with great attributes, one of which is his ability to deal with the pass back. Recently against Man Utd, Taylor passed back a bullet to him and he tried his best to deal with it. Result bad - not many other examples. If there was one issue - maybe his height and his ability to deal with the cross. All in all a legend, and a good Donegal man.
His kicking is brutal. Other than that though he's certainly world class. Well he was before his injuries.

[Kingdom]

I'd argue the toss about Given too to be honest. He's our #1 and deservedly so. His shot stopping, anticipation and kicking are all excellent. What I think holds him back is the amount, and it's considerable, of goals scored inside Newcastles 6 yard box.
He's not aggressive enough because of his size, and its the reason why he can't dominate his area.
There's too ways of looking at his long stay at newcastle; One, he's settled there and doesn't want to move south to a traditionally bigger club (this perhaps questions his ambition?)
or
two, the managers of the bigger clubs don't rate him, or see something in him bad that the rest of us don't.

I'll just point out that I love Shay and dread to think where we'd be without him.
I love you Shay.

[BigmanCas]

His kicking is brutal. Other than that though he's certainly world class. Well he was before his injuries.
More nonsense for EB. He has Irelands best player over the past 7 years and has been the premierships best over same period. Because he gets injured is irrelevant. When fit he has been without peer. Obviously Cech and Van Der Saar are up there now aswell. Premiership goalkeeper of the year twice. If his kicking was brutal he would not be in the company mentioned. Why did you move my thread re: getting supporters to sing a few songs to get behind team during games - I feel it very important, very important.

[eirebhoy]

Why did you move my thread re: getting supporters to sing a few songs to get behind team during games - I feel it very important, very important.
Will you stop treating me as some bloody police man. I don't really give a crap who's thread I moved. You could do with spending the next week reading and writing posts without actually reading the name beside the post. It might do you some good. And don't reply to this point in here because it's off topic. PM me if you want.

Anyway, on Given. I get very, very nervous when he's going to kick a back pass under pressure. He very often fluffs it. I don't think I need to point out again how highly I rate Given though.

BigmanCas I'm beginning to understand how you think.
I say McGeady had a terrible 45 minutes. I must think he's rubbish. "nonsense"
I say Stephen Kelly is rated by Birmingham fans. I must think he's the best right back in the world. "nonsense"
I say Shay Given is a poor kicker of the ball. I must think he's brutal. "nonsense"

You have to understand that everything isn't all black and white. You can't expect us all to exaggerate the positives and ignore the negatives of every player we like while exaggerating the negatives and ignoring the positives of players we don't like.

[youngirish]

Even if McGeady turns out to be the next Maradonna he will still be shown in time to be overrated by some on here.

BigManCas and Eirebhoy I'm glancing in your directions.

Andy O'Brien is overrated by the fact that anyone cares that he retired.

[BigmanCas]

Will you stop treating me as some bloody police man. I don't really give a crap who's thread I moved. You could do with spending the next week reading and writing posts without actually reading the name beside the post. It might do you some good. And don't reply to this point in here because it's off topic. PM me if you want.

Anyway, on Given. I get very, very nervous when he's going to kick a back pass under pressure. He very often fluffs it. I don't think I need to point out again how highly I rate Given though.

BigmanCas I'm beginning to understand how you think.
I say McGeady had a terrible 45 minutes. I must think he's rubbish. "nonsense"
I say Stephen Kelly is rated by Birmingham fans. I must think he's the best right back in the world. "nonsense"
I say Shay Given is a poor kicker of the ball. I must think he's brutal. "nonsense"

You have to understand that everything isn't all black and white. You can't expect us all to exaggerate the positives and ignore the negatives of every player we like while exaggerating the negatives and ignoring the positives of players we don't like.
That is because you are the policeman EB. I dread to think how you feel when any other goalkeeper (from a team you support) is going to kick a back pass under pressure so.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4AwlfA-9Zk

[Shedender81]

McGeady , plays in the SPL , He needs to move to improve its simple , regardless of the Celtic based viewpoint .. He looks to have talent no doubt.. Not really seen it in a Irish jersey .

However with Duff going backwards we need him to step up .

One of the problems is too many Irish players in the comfort zone .. Hopefully the new management team can shake them up.. but at club level too many players don't perform...

Look at the Ireland Team that played v Scotland in 1987 in a 1-0 Win in Jacks first competitive away win and our last major win away , Every player had a WINNERS medal in their career . We had players who had Won the European Cup / UEFA Cup / FA Cup / League Cup / and titles in three different countries other than John O'Shea and McGeady / Duffer we are lacking winners

Point is our players are not in the same class and or don't challenge themselves in the same way those players did

Team was

Bonner - Scottish League /Cup
McGrath - FA Cup / League Cup
Whelan - Euro Cup / League / FA Cup / League Cup
McCarthy - Scottish League /Cup
Moran - FA Cup / All Ireland
Houghton - League / FA Cup / League Cup
Brady - Italian League / FA Cup
Lawerenson - Euro Cup / League / FA Cup / League Cup
Galvin - UEFA Cup / FA Cup
Stapleton - 3 Time FA CUP Winner / CWC Rup
Aldrigde - League / FA Cup / League Cup

[osarusan]

Point is our players are not in the same class and or don't challenge themselves in the same way those players did

Bonner - Scottish League /Cup
McGrath - FA Cup / League Cup
Whelan - Euro Cup / League / FA Cup / League Cup
McCarthy - Scottish League /Cup
Moran - FA Cup / All Ireland
Houghton - League / FA Cup / League Cup
Brady - Italian League / FA Cup
Lawerenson - Euro Cup / League / FA Cup / League Cup
Galvin - UEFA Cup / FA Cup
Stapleton - 3 Time FA CUP Winner / CWC Rup
Aldrigde - League / FA Cup / League Cup

another point is that our players now aren't as good as the players then, certainly in terms of being a cohesive unit.

[eirebhoy]

Even if McGeady turns out to be the next Maradonna he will still be shown in time to be overrated by some on here.

BigManCas and Eirebhoy I'm glancing in your directions.

It just shows you how lowly you think of him if you think I overhype him in the slightest. Maybe it's the quantity of my posts about McGeady that makes you think that but you won't find much proof of me overrating him. I don't think so anyway.

[RogerMilla]

i think every player on the irish team is over-rated , by the premiership clubs who are payign them far more than they are worth , and by the fans who worship them even though they actually deserve very little of the repsect they are given.

I honestly hope Trap can turn this shower around but i am massively disillusioned with them at the moment.