We should try get Flares permitted again.

[eamo1]

Any chance we could organise some kind of fans petition to get flares permitted back into E.L grounds again?They add to an atmosphere so much and are sorely missed i feel.

[KoemansCC]

Never going to happen, the use of uncontrolled flares will never be actively allowed at any organised event whatever it be a football match or a 'Lovely Ladies' competition....no insurance company would even entertain the idea unless it happened under the tightest controls i.e. fire brigade, trained users etc...hence more cost.

Fighting a losing battle from the off, best to concentrate our efforts elsewhere...

[Buile Shuibhne]

As well as being advised on how to handle situations on match-days, the Event Controllers were also shown a video produced in Switzerland which explains the dangers of fireworks at football matches.

The video showed how items such as flares, which are banned from stadiums under FAI rules, can seriously injure spectators, causing permanent skin damage and potentially setting fire to clothing.

The video also showed how smoke bombs can trigger heart attacks for people with heart conditions.




http://www.eircomloi.ie:82/news-centre/news/news-181/index.xml

[dcfcsteve]

No chance - it's not an FAI ban, but a UEFA/FIFA one.

Plus I feckin hate flares. If you get stuck close to the tw@t who has them at a match it's no fun at all.

I don't see why they're considered in any way that important to atmosphere - they're not.

[Poor Student]

No chance - it's not an FAI ban, but a UEFA/FIFA one.

Plus I feckin hate flares. If you get stuck close to the tw@t who has them at a match it's no fun at all.

I don't see why they're considered in any way that important to atmosphere - they're not.

I actually completely agree with you.:eek:

[pete]

Waste of time as football ban & also illegal in this country unless licenced.

[oldyouth]

I agree. Don't know what flares have to do with 'athmosphere'. Sing a few songs, get on to players underperforming, be witty. I'd rather that than worry about some gobsh**e who can't hold his ale, with a flare in his hand

[Maynard]

I agree. Don't know what flares have to do with 'athmosphere'. Sing a few songs, get on to players underperforming, be witty. I'd rather that than worry about some gobsh**e who can't hold his ale, with a flare in his hand

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what he had in mind:rolleyes:

It's a fact that if you look at the best supported leagues, in terms of both numbers and atmosphere, that flares and/or organised displays by fans are all major parts of matchs days. Germany, Holland, Italy etc

It is also no coincidence that the more corporate and sterile leagues become (Premiership how are ya?) that these displays (or any displays for that matter) do not occur. Instead you get more cases of the "funeral" atmospheres that Alex Ferguson has alluded to in the recent past.

Unfortunately whenever this issue is mooted (particularly on here) you immediately get a divide between the "I hate flares, they're only for yobs" brigade and the "There's nothing I like better than packing WMD's into my rucksack of a Friday" brigade.

If people on this board cannot come around to the inclusive thinking whereby there should be some LEGAL pathways in which groups of affiliated supporters can organise match displays, away from the populated areas of the ground, (ie chose a designated safe area) where they can be monitored and controlled by the stewards/Garda on duty (who do sweet FA on matchdays let's be honest) then what chances do we have of the FAI thinking this way? (It's rhetorical;))

The facts of the matter at the minute is that the FAI are using certain supporters legitimate attempts to improve the atmosphere/enjoyment of their local club, by fining the holes off them.
Clubs, supporters groups and the FAI should all attempt to find an inclusive solution to this problem that sees safety prevail whilst also allowing supporters to bring of bit of colour and life to the league.

Fin.

[Higgo]

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what he had in mind:rolleyes:

It's a fact that if you look at the best supported leagues, in terms of both numbers and atmosphere, that flares and/or organised displays by fans are all major parts of matchs days. Germany, Holland, Italy etc

It is also no coincidence that the more corporate and sterile leagues become (Premiership how are ya?) that these displays (or any displays for that matter) do not occur. Instead you get more cases of the "funeral" atmospheres that Alex Ferguson has alluded to in the recent past.

Unfortunately whenever this issue is mooted (particularly on here) you immediately get a divide between the "I hate flares, they're only for yobs" brigade and the "There's nothing I like better than packing WMD's into my rucksack of a Friday" brigade.

If people on this board cannot come around to the inclusive thinking whereby there should be some LEGAL pathways in which groups of affiliated supporters can organise match displays, away from the populated areas of the ground, (ie chose a designated safe area) where they can be monitored and controlled by the stewards/Garda on duty (who do sweet FA on matchdays let's be honest) then what chances do we have of the FAI thinking this way? (It's rhetorical;))

The facts of the matter at the minute is that the FAI are using certain supporters legitimate attempts to improve the atmosphere/enjoyment of their local club, by fining the holes off them.
Clubs, supporters groups and the FAI should all attempt to find an inclusive solution to this problem that sees safety prevail whilst also allowing supporters to bring of bit of colour and life to the league.

Fin.

Was just about to post a long message in this thread, no need now. I could not have put it any better. There is a definite link between flares/other forms of colour and atmosphere for heavens sake.:rolleyes: Nail on head Maynard.

[pete]

Flares are in same category as fireworks in this country. If the FAI allowed officially insurance premiums would rocket.

[deecay]

I would like to know what person/group decided one day to bring a flare or a cuple of them to a football match.Holding one in an unreal experience.Total mayham,I love it

[Lim till i die]

Flares are in same category as fireworks in this country.

I agree

We should be allowed bring fireworks aswell :)

[osarusan]

I agree

We should be allowed bring fireworks aswell :)

and guns. They electrify any crowd.

here's a video of limerick fc a few years ago when pyrotechnics were allowed.

It's from Turkish TV, hence the foreign language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6x7jyFAf7E&feature=related

"Fenerbahce" is Turkish for "Limerick."

[Lim till i die]

and guns. They electrify any crowd.

here's a video of limerick fc a few years ago when pyrotechnics were allowed.

It's from Turkish TV, hence the foreign language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6x7jyFAf7E&feature=related

"Fenerbahce" is Turkish for "Limerick."

Those were happier days :)

We will be doing our best to recreate them this year.

If there's one benefit to living in Limerick it's the fact that the city is awash with firearms at bargain basement prices

[back of the net]

Any chance we could organise some kind of fans petition to get flares permitted back into E.L grounds again?They add to an atmosphere so much and are sorely missed i feel.

they dont add to the atmosphere in an E.L game - not with E.L attendances


christ its not boca juniors against cruizeiro that play in the E.L

[placid casual]

christ its not boca juniors against cruizeiro that play in the E.L[/QUOTE]

hardly the point my friend:rolleyes:

the use of flares,jax roll,flags,bunting etc etc is a chance for the home/away fans to greet the teams as they come out.
if you have ever been to the rome derby the things you notice first are the noise,the colour,the "atmosphere".
this helps create a carnival atmosphere and shows the team running/walking out what the club means to them,in the vain hope that the mercenary currently sporting your teams kit will bother his ballix and try that little bit harder.
or maybe i'm just a believer in the all-encompassing emotion that following Rovers is to me rather than some consumer interested in 2 hrs of mild,safe distraction.

[Maynard]

Flares are in same category as fireworks in this country. If the FAI allowed officially insurance premiums would rocket.

Incorrect. Flares can be legally purchased at many locations throughout the Republic of Ireland. Most notably in marine equipment stores.

As a slight aside the Irish law prohibiting the sale and use of fireworks is an antiquated piece of rubbish legislation drafted in well over a hundred years ago to outlaw the use of gunpowder as a method of (ahem) "solving" local disputes. It is HIGH TIME that it too was redrafted and updated.

[kingdomkerry]

Where in Dublin can you buy flares?

[back of the net]

christ its not boca juniors against cruizeiro that play in the E.L

hardly the point my friend:rolleyes:

the use of flares,jax roll,flags,bunting etc etc is a chance for the home/away fans to greet the teams as they come out.
if you have ever been to the rome derby the things you notice first are the noise,the colour,the "atmosphere".
this helps create a carnival atmosphere and shows the team running/walking out what the club means to them,in the vain hope that the mercenary currently sporting your teams kit will bother his ballix and try that little bit harder.
or maybe i'm just a believer in the all-encompassing emotion that following Rovers is to me rather than some consumer interested in 2 hrs of mild,safe distraction.[/QUOTE]

mate im all for creating a great atmosphere but i just dont think a few flares at E.L will do anything to help create one -it would be better to concentrate on getting consistently good crowds first

i agree with u on your rome point , but in rome at a roma , lazio derby there are prob 50 - 60 thousand crazy italians in the stadio olympico roaring the teams on hence allowing the flares have a greater atmospheric effect

[Bluebeard]

and guns. They electrify any crowd.

here's a video of limerick fc a few years ago when pyrotechnics were allowed.

It's from Turkish TV, hence the foreign language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6x7jyFAf7E&feature=related

"Fenerbahce" is Turkish for "Limerick."

Was that when you were in Rathbane?

[sligoman]

The FAI are never going to come out and say they're ok with flares...however they could just not fine clubs if they cared enough!

[dcfcsteve]

It's a fact that if you look at the best supported leagues, in terms of both numbers and atmosphere, that flares and/or organised displays by fans are all major parts of matchs days. Germany, Holland, Italy etc

"Fact" only in the David Brent sense....:rolleyes:

It is a proper 'fact' that the 2 best supported Leagues in Europe are the English Premiership and the English Championship. Neither allow flares, and neither would have the critique you make of their lack of atmosphere addressed by tw@ts with pyrotechnics either.

Stand close to someone with a flare in a confined space whilst wearing a Polyester football top and a hat or wig made of material that also burns easily and see how much fun you thibnk it is. Flares are not banned for a laugh - it's becausee they're a fcukling hazard in the middle of crowds. They're designed for lost fools in the mid-Atlantic - not idiots in the middle of a football stadium who think 90mins of football is rendered sterile by the absence of luminescence and a pile of smoke for a few minutes.

I bet there's a strong inverse correlation between a person's age and their desire to see flares at football games. In other words, it's largely a kid's thing.

[Joey Killester]

"Fact" only in the David Brent sense....:rolleyes:

It is a proper 'fact' that the 2 best supported Leagues in Europe are the English Premiership and the English Championship. Neither allow flares, and neither would have the critique you make of their lack of atmosphere addressed by tw@ts with pyrotechnics either.

Stand close to someone with a flare in a confined space whilst wearing a Polyester football top and a hat or wig made of material that also burns easily and see how much fun you thibnk it is. Flares are not banned for a laugh - it's becausee they're a fcukling hazard in the middle of crowds. They're designed for lost fools in the mid-Atlantic - not idiots in the middle of a football stadium who think 90mins of football is rendered sterile by the absence of luminescence and a pile of smoke for a few minutes.

I bet there's a strong inverse correlation between a person's age and their desire to see flares at football games. In other words, it's largely a kid's thing.

So flares shouldnt be let off because they'll burn somones hilarious He's a character goon wig?

I knew someone was going to mention flares being an obession amongst kids only but, I dont believe that to be true. I can see why someone might think that as many times on debates like this on the net you'll see posters saying stuff like "FLAREZ ARE MAD, DEADLY BUZZ LOLLLLLZ!". I'd say its true that some supprters around the country are kids letting one off to be "mad" but most of the time they are used by ultra groups who know what they're doing, and are legitimatley adding to the atmosphere and colour of the match. Groups like SRFC Ultras, Commandos 84 of Cork and NBB of Bohs, and ourselves (BD) are not just kids messing who are going to be reckless. Countless flares have been let off by Shels fans over the years and never has anyone been hurt.

[pete]

Incorrect. Flares can be legally purchased at many locations throughout the Republic of Ireland. Most notably in marine equipment stores.

Buy a couple of flares & walk down O'Connell St (or somewhere which is actually policed) waving them & see how you get on with the Gardai. It matters little whether firework law is a bad one as it does exist & not going to change.

[half_full]

That article on the LoI site is absolute BS. The FAI are trying to sterilize Irish football, hence their attempt to ban flares/smoke from grounds. As supporters it is important that we don't give in to this.

Lets keep things like this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iQ2VeBoaOig

[half_full]

"Fact" only in the David Brent sense....:rolleyes:

It is a proper 'fact' that the 2 best supported Leagues in Europe are the English Premiership and the English Championship. Neither allow flares, and neither would have the critique you make of their lack of atmosphere addressed by tw@ts with pyrotechnics either.

Stand close to someone with a flare in a confined space whilst wearing a Polyester football top and a hat or wig made of material that also burns easily and see how much fun you thibnk it is. Flares are not banned for a laugh - it's becausee they're a fcukling hazard in the middle of crowds. They're designed for lost fools in the mid-Atlantic - not idiots in the middle of a football stadium who think 90mins of football is rendered sterile by the absence of luminescence and a pile of smoke for a few minutes.

I bet there's a strong inverse correlation between a person's age and their desire to see flares at football games. In other words, it's largely a kid's thing.

You obviously don't have a clue.
1. English football has no atmosphere
2. You call people who use flares kids, yet you wear wigs to matches:rolleyes: Go to any country bar bar england/scotland and they have a proper atmosphere, guess what they use flares.

[mediahack]

There was a situation at a Waterford game in the RSC a couple of years ago where a young kid's eye was damaged by a flare!

They are dangerous, have no place in football stadia and I hope they remain outlawed!

Enough said.

[Schumi]

It is a proper 'fact' that the 2 best supported Leagues in Europe are the English Premiership and the English Championship. The Bundesliga has the highest average crowd in Europe and has for several years.

[John83]

Unfortunately whenever this issue is mooted (particularly on here) you immediately get a divide between the "I hate flares, they're only for yobs" brigade and the "There's nothing I like better than packing WMD's into my rucksack of a Friday" brigade.
Nicely said. :)


The facts of the matter at the minute is that the FAI are using certain supporters legitimate attempts to improve the atmosphere/enjoyment of their local club, by fining the holes off them.
Clubs, supporters groups and the FAI should all attempt to find an inclusive solution to this problem that sees safety prevail whilst also allowing supporters to bring of bit of colour and life to the league.
The fact of the matter is that those attempts are illegal and a bit dangerous. If you want flares at a match, you'll need a trained professional and probably the fire brigade. No one is going to foot the bill for those, so we're back to the "I want to wave a flare whenever I want" brigade versus the "but it's illegal" brigade.

[Seagull]

You obviously don't have a clue.

2. You call people who use flares kids, yet you wear wigs to matches:rolleyes:

What choice does he have if he's going a bit thin on top??!

Season before last, Sligo fans lit a flare under the canvas roof at Bray. How stupid was that? Because it's clowns like that who get their hands on them, they must stay banned.

[deecay]

Season before last, Sligo fans lit a flare under the canvas roof at Bray. How stupid was that? Because it's clowns like that who get their hands on them, they must stay banned.
Wasnt stupid at all,great craic actually.Who got hurt,what damage was done

[micls]

Wasnt stupid at all,great craic actually.Who got hurt,what damage was done

And here you have a perfect example of why we cant have flares in grounds....

At one stage last year we were looking into getting a pro fireworks company to do a display at one of the games. They sort out the license and Fire cert an stuff. Fell through in the end but obviously its costly enough.

If it were organised properly it could be done with no risk, trusted and supervised people down the front of stand with buckets of sand next to them.

Unfortunately it'l never happen.

[deecay]

[QUOTE=micls;891629]And here you have a perfect example of why we cant have flares in grounds....
QUOTE]
Hows that a perfect example,no one hurt,no damage to anything.Great for atomsphere though

[half_full]

There was a situation at a Waterford game in the RSC a couple of years ago where a young kid's eye was damaged by a flare!

They are dangerous, have no place in football stadia and I hope they remain outlawed!

Enough said.

That child was far too young to be in a standing section in the first place. And besides it wasn't his eye it was part of his jacket collar got damaged IIRC, no way was it as serious as an eye anyway. Not saying it should have happened though. IMO flares/smoke should only be done by fans, not companies.

[BohsPartisan]

No point starting a thread like this on here. Too many reactionaries who want to see the sterile Premiership scenario imported here.
Ultras - just keep doing what you are doing.

[half_full]

I agree BP

[HarpoJoyce]

Perhaps the reason English/British football disallows flares maybe 'cos they have got it in the face ...figurativily.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1981917,00.html
Paul Bodin about Wales:Romania 1993 Wc Qualifier Cardiff Arms Park "..but people were obviously going to blame me because of the [penalty] miss. I got some stick for it, but things were put into perspective when we found out a fan had been killed by a flare. He came to watch a football match and never went home."

Em.. away fans were inconvenieced too. The TAROM flight from an airport (unsure which) was delayed as Police (those who protect) searched and questioned Players, Blazers, Supporters.

What happened was, some Welsh supporters on one side of a double-decker stand. IGNITED a flare, wrong kind..oopps, distress flare,(one what goes a distance and then explodes increasing the signal of distress). The flare, on this occassion, went across the stadium into another football (Ass. Football not rugby) fan. Killed him too.

Football fans kill football fans. Not Uniformed Officers, Not blazers, not players but supporters did. To be ignorant of this one incident is understandable.

To repeat, to want fans to bring in UXO (Unexploded Ordinance) into a Stadium, football or otherwise is unforgiveable.

Here is some advice on the legal handling of UXO material
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-offences/the-law-on-fireworks

I want to go to a football stadium, you may scream your "IRA" songs.
Don't maim me.....do I need to beg.

[BohsPartisan]

IRA songs? What planet do you go to football games on?

Q. Number of people hurt by Flares at footie matches in Ireland?

The state of some of the grounds is far more dangerous. Last time I went to the carlisle I left with my legs covered in rusty cuts.

BTW that story is about Wales not getting to the WC!

[Réiteoir]

That article on the LoI site is absolute BS. The FAI are trying to sterilize Irish football, hence their attempt to ban flares/smoke from grounds. As supporters it is important that we don't give in to this.

Lets keep things like this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iQ2VeBoaOig

Rather than this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3254094.stm

[BohsPartisan]

Rather than this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3254094.stm

Yes! Say no to organised professional displays with exploding fireworks in the center circle!
Liberta per gli Ultras!

[sligoman]

Rather than this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3254094.stmDoes this (http://www.totalcarcrashes.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/car_crash_0164.jpg) mean we should ban driving?

[Réiteoir]

If done in a controlled manner with proper methods of disposing spent tubes in a proper area of the ground (as the NBB and such have done over the years) - then yes

If it's some yahoo cracking one open recklessly in the middle of a packed grandstand then no

[BohsPartisan]

What should happen but won't -
Designated areas for Ultras in stadia with sand buckets etc. for putting out flares.
Groups collectively responsible for their safe use within these designated areas.

[HarpoJoyce]

Perhaps the reason English/British football disallows flares maybe 'cos they have got it in the face ...figurativily.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1981917,00.html
Paul Bodin about Wales:Romania 1993 Wc Qualifier Cardiff Arms Park "..but people were obviously going to blame me because of the [penalty] miss. I got some stick for it, but things were put into perspective when we found out a fan had been killed by a flare. He came to watch a football match and never went home."

What happened was, some Welsh supporters on one side of a double-decker stand. IGNITED a flare, wrong kind..oopps, distress flare,(one what goes a distance and then explodes increasing the signal of distress). The flare, on this occassion, went across the stadium into another football (Ass. Football not rugby) fan. Killed him too.



IRA songs? What planet do you go to football games on?
BTW that story is about Wales not getting to the WC!

IT's unfair I have to requote my own posts, unfortunately there is a sentence and a half about the death of a football supporter in the Observer article. It is true the article is more about the match and not the death. I quoted the releveant part on the post. 1993, I did look for a more dominant article.

You do mention about the safety inside of stadiums, Dalyer (HoIF) has being allowed alot of leeway.

I have being to Irish football matches where I have heard Irish political chanting.

Why don't you choose to comment on the handling of such material. Quoted by myself and others.

"Just Say NO to UXO" (Unexploded Ordinance.)

[Red Army]

I'd be totally against professional displays they are passionless, soulless and a complete mockery of the ultra way of life. The whole point of using pyro is part of the ultra mentality they're banned all over Europe but groups still use them. Yes they add to the atmosphere but they are also and more importantly an act of defiance against modern football and stupid OTT health and safety rules.

Libertá per gli Ultras :ball:

(btw anyone wearing a poxy wig at games should have flares thrown at them:D)

[BohsPartisan]

@Harpo
Sorry, skimmed through the article in the link and missed that.
They were obviously inexperienced and none of the Ultras groups here use that type of flare and know the difference.
One incident involving a different type of flare than what is normally used does not make your case.

What games did you hear political chanting at? We don't have any "IRA" chants anyway.

What exactly did you quote about the handling? Do you mean that link to the Citizens Advice Bureau website?
All that is is legal material on fireworks.

[gufct]

The club or the FAI will not be covered by their insurers if anyone is injured or worse. Are the "Ultras" going to be able to pay compensation to anybody who is injured or worse.

It is virtually impossible to quench a flare or smoke bomb once lit even covering it with sand.

The Video is actually made by UEFA and the Swiss Police and its not bullsh**t . Ive actually had 2 jerseys destroyed by clowns who dont even know how to hold a flare.

[Red Army]

I would like to know what person/group decided one day to bring a flare or a cuple of them to a football match.Holding one in an unreal experience.Total mayham,I love it

I often wondered that myself too. Hajduk Split' ultras Torcida say they were the first but it's unfounded

[HarpoJoyce]

BohsPartisan,

You deserve a response, I used the IRA chanting as an emotive response to the 'there's no harm with flares' argument from some on the thread. Its also a reminder why we have some legislation on certain things. (Live broadcasting and security around the broadcast of live images is also legislated)

I posted the citizen's Advice Bureau on Fireworks as a legit, know your entitlements, for those wishing to handle or control some products. There was a 'Sparkler' display earlier in the thread as evidence of athmosphere

I understand the attraction of pyrotechnics, (I tried to source 'Blue' Flares in the past), its just pyrotechnics is very close to pyromania and the 'techies have to have clear reasons for the displays.

Is Segregation of fans in the stadium a legitimate reason to bring in a display?

[BohsPartisan]

The club or the FAI will not be covered by their insurers if anyone is injured or worse. Are the "Ultras" going to be able to pay compensation to anybody who is injured or worse.



Melodrama at its worst. Again where have people actually been injured?
If we are going to ban anything that can potentially cause injury then lets start with the things most likely to do so:
Alcohol
Cars
Tobacco
Tall Buildings - People might fall off or something
Bottles over 100 ml on flights... Oh, wait.

Lets introduce a curfew while we're at it sure there are always people getting injured late at night outside pubs and clubs

@ Harpo
I don't quite understand the question at the end of your post.