Gascoigne held under mental health act

[John83]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/0221/gascoigne.html?rss

There doesn't seem to be much information in the story. Anyone heard more?

[rambler14]

He's been held in some sort of mental institution.......................


Kevin Keegan said he's delighted to have him back.:D

[Denis The Red]

Won't be sheding too many tears.....ahem, for him. The guy was and still is an idiot in my opinion. All this crap about him being one of the best players of his generation and could've been better if he was looked after. Yeah the guy was good but not great as one Eamon Dunphy would say.
Let's not forget his disgraceful tackle and behaviour in the 1991 cup final. His "flute playing" while playing for Rangers. His insulting the whole Norwegian nation by telling them to f*@k off.
Yeah, get well soon Gazza.

[cheifo]

I saw him play a couple of times at WHL when he played for Spurs.Wanted him to be crap but he was amazing.Had an incredible box of tricks and could use them at will and did reguarly even in his own half.Cant really think of another similar player atm.As a person he was badly behaved at times but with his catalogue of personality disorders IMO its a sad affair-particularly
His celebrity mates dont seem to be around any more.

[Lev Yashin]

Won't be sheding too many tears.....ahem, for him. The guy was and still is an idiot in my opinion. All this crap about him being one of the best players of his generation and could've been better if he was looked after. Yeah the guy was good but not great as one Eamon Dunphy would say.
Let's not forget his disgraceful tackle and behaviour in the 1991 cup final. His "flute playing" while playing for Rangers. His insulting the whole Norwegian nation by telling them to f*@k off.
Yeah, get well soon Gazza.

here here!

[bellavistaman]

Read his book an excellent read may i add, the man has serious problems, especially to do with his ex wife, he was a magician on the pitch, bit of muppet off it though(even though he has some hilarious stories), but he needs help and i hope the football community supports one of itys legends, for whatever reason he is, he is a legend!!

[razor]

Won't be sheding too many tears.....ahem, for him. The guy was and still is an idiot in my opinion. All this crap about him being one of the best players of his generation and could've been better if he was looked after. Yeah the guy was good but not great as one Eamon Dunphy would say.
Let's not forget his disgraceful tackle and behaviour in the 1991 cup final. His "flute playing" while playing for Rangers. His insulting the whole Norwegian nation by telling them to f*@k off.
Yeah, get well soon Gazza.the man is obviously in need of help and has been in need for a long time, great to see you've some compassion Denis.

[Docboy]

Agreed, I would have assumed that he had these problems all along bubbling under the surface. More than likely would help explain some of his actions. Don't think there was ever much malice in him.

[Denis The Red]

Just saw him on Sky Sports News and thought he looked better than he's supposed to (still looked crap). I don't deny the guy was a talented player but now he looks like he's fishing for sympathy and maybe a job somewhere so he puts himself back in the spotlight again in case we forgot him.
And did you hear he's boast, "No-one is ever going to be as good as I was." Oh man, what a pr**k.

[endabob1]

And did you hear he's boast, "No-one is ever going to be as good as I was." Oh man, what a pr**k.

He has a point, the closest thing England have ever come to a Marradona. Gazza was a genius, head and shoulders the best player I've ever seen in the flesh.
Sadly was always very much a George Best type flawed genius, I wish him a happy and stable life but I fear the worst.

[reder]

the man is obviously in need of help and has been in need for a long time.

Absolutely. The man always came accross as being on the brink of breakdown even during his glory days. It's a terrible shame to see any individual in that state.

I would love to see him take advantage of all the help that is/has been given to him but I fear that it is just a matter of time before I turn on the radio in the morning and hear the bad news.

[EalingGreen]

Won't be sheding too many tears.....ahem, for him. The guy was and still is an idiot in my opinion. All this crap about him being one of the best players of his generation and could've been better if he was looked after. Yeah the guy was good but not great as one Eamon Dunphy would say.
Let's not forget his disgraceful tackle and behaviour in the 1991 cup final. His "flute playing" while playing for Rangers. His insulting the whole Norwegian nation by telling them to f*@k off.
Yeah, get well soon Gazza.
Would you make similar comments about other players whose problems have caused them to behave equally badly? George Best maybe, or Paul McGrath?

Anyhow, I hope you don't ever suffer mental illness or succumb to alcoholism etc; if you should, you might be a tad less judgemental. :rolleyes:

As for his status as a player, I watched plenty of him at Spurs. Even despite his lifestyle, his performances at times were right up there with Hoddle and Ginola, for instance. Even other fine players like Lineker were in awe of him.

And had he not had so many "demons", I've no doubt he'd eventually have been ranked with players such as Zidane, Gullitt or Platini, such was his innate ability.
As it was, he was as good as the likes of Cantona or Bergkamp ever were (imo).

[Gather round]

Would you make similar comments about other players whose problems have caused them to behave equally badly? George Best maybe, or Paul McGrath?

Only if they played for Rangers.

[celticV3]

Theres only two paul Gascoigne's:D

[Denis The Red]

Nothing to do with the fact he's English and played for Rangers( I like Trevor Steven) but a lot to do with the fact he was a lout. He's behaviour was unacceptable and unremorseful when he did it and now the guy is openly talking about his problems we are all supposed to say how awful it is?:rolleyes:
I already said he was a talented player and could have been the best English midfielder since Bobby Charlton, but it dosen't excuse the fact that he lived and behaved like a thug. He was in a position of privilege like many pro footballers, but unlike most players he abused that privilege. He hung around with a guy called "five bellies" for Christ sake, beat his wife (who was a fox imo) on top of the other things I mentioned before.
People can sob for him if they like but I'm not going to lament for a wasted career.

[osarusan]

Would you make similar comments about other players whose problems have caused them to behave equally badly? George Best maybe, or Paul McGrath?



Only if they played for Rangers.


A poster uses a few choice words to describe a guy (words which describe his character pretty well in my opinion) and we have assumptions that this dislike is based on his nationality or the fact he played for a particular club. Well done to you both.

[Gather round]

A poster uses a few choice words to describe a guy (words which describe his character pretty well in my opinion) and we have assumptions that this dislike is based on his nationality or the fact he played for a particular club. Well done to you both

My pleasure. The assumption was based on what Denis the Red wrote- not everyone would agree with him that winding up easily offended Celtic fans is comparable to Gascoigne's other thuggish behavior. I assumed DtR was just throwing in a cheap old firm gag, but to be fair he's answered that. So guilty as charged :)

Ealing Green can answer for himself, but I think both of you have misread him. He's chiding Denis for being judgemental about Gascoigne's illness, not accusing him of being anti-English.

[EalingGreen]

A poster uses a few choice words to describe a guy (words which describe his character pretty well in my opinion) and we have assumptions that this dislike is based on his nationality or the fact he played for a particular club. Well done to you both.
Osuaran,
It's (uncharacteristically) out of order of order for you to conflate my post with that of someone else (Gather Round), to make a point that doesn't apply to me.
If you re-read my post, you'll see I did not assume anything about DTR's views on Nationality or Club affiliation.
Rather, whilst nowhere condoning or defending Gazza's behaviour, I questioned DTR's clear lack of compassion for the Mental and Physical Illness which may have contributed to that behaviour.
For whilst we can all make rational decisions, for which we must be held accountable, when sane and healthy, it is not necessarily the same when psychologically disturbed or addicted etc.
Of course, I don't know Gascoigne well enough to know whether he would have behaved so badly had he never experienced his demons; then again, neither does DTR, which was the point I was trying to make.

[ifk101]

Undoubtably a very talented footballer in his day. But his "lad antics" is what he is and will be remembered for.

[EalingGreen]

Nothing to do with the fact he's English and played for Rangers( I like Trevor Steven) but a lot to do with the fact he was a lout.I hadn't thought that was your motive in attacking him.


He's behaviour was unacceptable and unremorseful when he did it and now the guy is openly talking about his problems we are all supposed to say how awful it is?:rolleyes:

I can't comment on his most recent pronouncement (not seen it), but having followed his career reasonably closely, one of the reasons I retain some sympathy for the guy is because of his clear remorse in the past. Which imo explains why so many of his friends/former colleagues, his ex-wife even, have not entirely given up on him. And whilst I'm no psychologist, I suspect it also explains some of his torment i.e. if he was just an uncaring *******, none of it would bother him.
Nor have I detected any great demand for our sympathy, either, though I'd suggest that he at least deserves a degree of understanding, which is hardly the same thing.



I already said he was a talented player and could have been the best English midfielder since Bobby Charlton, but it dosen't excuse the fact that he lived and behaved like a thug.It is out-of-order to describe Gascoigne the player as a "thug" imo, esp when you consider the treatment he received from genuinely thuggish defenders etc, throughout his career. As for that tackle on Gary Charles, as someone who was there, I can say it was obvious to everyone that Gascoigne was so hyped up that he was likely to do something crazy (literally).
Which doesn't defend him, or make it any easier for Charles. Nonetheless, one such isolated incident should not be used to define a career. Moreover, it does not even begin to compare with the pre-meditated, calculated thuggery of e.g. a Graeme Sounness, a John Fashanu or a Roy Keane, who routinely, deliberately and cynically chopped people down without a second thought. Indeed, one of those even boasted of it, for money, in his "Autobiography".
As for his off-the-field life, I'm reluctant to comment, since I don't know much more than what the tabloids say i.e. fcuk-all.
Nonetheless, I have no doubt that there are people out there in politics, the army, big business, the church, the media etc who regularly do far worse than Gascoigne ever did, without any mitigating factors, who have potentially ruined the lives of countless thousands etc, and yet we hardly even know of their existence, since they don't appear in the redtops every other day.



He was in a position of privilege like many pro footballers, but unlike most players he abused that privilege.I'm not denying or defending that abuse. I'm merely asking whether if placed in his shoes, which of us can say we wouldn't have behaved the same, or worse?


He hung around with a guy called "five bellies" for Christ sake,
The fact that he didn't abandon his old mates, or deny his roots etc, is to Gascoigne's credit, imo.



beat his wife (who was a fox imo) on top of the other things I mentioned before.
Would it make any difference if she was a "dog"? :eek: Is she "foxier" eg than Alex Best? If I had to choose between the two Gascogines, of course my sympathy would be for Sheryl over Paul. But that's not to say that sympathy for the former's plight automatically precludes some degree of understanding of the latter's problems.



People can sob for him if they like but I'm not going to lament for a wasted career.I'm a Spurs fan, but I actually have no great concern for the waste of his career - such things have happened before, will happen again and when it comes to it, football isn't actually that important.
I am, however, saddened to see the dark side of a (potentially decent enough) human being exposed by illness, so that he has become a much worse individual than he might have been, to the detriment of himself and those around him.

Speaking of which, I note that you haven't answered my question about Best and McGrath...

[ifk101]

Mountain, molehill.

[Denis The Red]

Well, EalingGreen, it's obvious you feel very passionately about the subject. You put a lot of effort and detail into your post, I'm impressed. I don't think I can be as committed to the argument as that. I'm very indifferent in fact by comparison. I will take you up on a couple of points however.
I was responding to another poster who questioned my motives, this has been rectified since by the same author.
How can a guy be so wound up as Gazza was in an FA cup final to do damage when only a year previous he played in a world cup semi final and with the exception of a silly booking, behaved professionally? It sounds like premeditation to me.
As for George Best and Paul McGrath, well yes I would and do have more sympathy for those guys because their behaviour on or off the pitch has been nothing like Gazza's. The only ones they're hurting are really themselves.
Look, I'm not doing cartwheels or throwing parties because of the guy's demise, nor will I be losing any sleep for him either.
Oh and my opnion on Sheryl was my two cents just to lighten the mood, it's irrelevant to the debate.

[osarusan]

Osuaran,
It's (uncharacteristically) out of order of order for you to conflate my post with that of someone else (Gather Round), to make a point that doesn't apply to me.
If you re-read my post, you'll see I did not assume anything about DTR's views on Nationality or Club affiliation.


I found it somewhat suspicious that the 2 players you were asking the poster to comment on were both Irish (Northern or Republic) as it seemed to me that the real question was along the lines, "If he were Irish, would you say the same things about him?"

But if it was just a coincidence that they were Irish and Gascoigne is English, then yes, my point would not apply to you.

[EalingGreen]

How can a guy be so wound up as Gazza was in an FA cup final to do damage when only a year previous he played in a world cup semi final and with the exception of a silly booking, behaved professionally? It sounds like premeditation to me.

Gascoigne was notorious for getting wound up before football games - think small child on Christmas Eve times ten. For example, I once spoke to one of the Security staff at Wembley, one of whose responsibilities was the for the dressing rooms. He mentioned how before one England game, Gazza was kicking a ball against the tunnel wall with such force that he had to be dragged away before he hurt someone.
Or the WC Semi you mention. Bobby Robson tells the story of the night before, he realised Gazza wasn't in his room. They searched the entire hotel - no sign.
Eventually they noticed the floodlights were on at the tennis courts and when they got there, Gazza had insisted on challenging TWO Americans (who apparently didn't even know who he was) to a match!
This was after midnight on the eve of the biggest game he would ever play...
And in any case, don't you remember the Semi itself where, after Gazza was booked, Lineker looked to the bench, put his finger to his temple and mouthed: "He's lost it"?
I'm not making excuses, merely pointing out that the unmatched motivation which made him such a great player also boiled over on occasion, which is the opposite of premeditation imo.
Besides, can you cite even one other example of Gazza attempting to "do" an opponent? I saw him play dozens of times for Spurs and honestly cannot, despite his frequently getting kicked from pillar to post.


As for George Best and Paul McGrath, well yes I would and do have more sympathy for those guys because their behaviour on or off the pitch has been nothing like Gazza's. The only ones they're hurting are really themselves.

I can't pretend to know too much about McGrath (though I gather he has owned up to some pretty scandalous behaviour of his own when under the influence).
George Best is another matter, however. For example, both his former wives have alleged he abused them; he certainly left them penniless and in dire need, whilst he was nowhere to be found. By his own admission, he neglected his son. It is thought he had at least two children whom he never contacted or acknowledged. He spent 3 months in prison for drink-driving, assaulting a cop and jumping bail. He was later done for drink-driving again. He accepted a liver transplant which might have benefited another, then drunk himself to death within a couple of years anyway.
And as a player, he was notorious for failing even to turn up for matches, before effectively retiring from the game entirely at the age of 27, to devote himself to drinking, gambling and shagging etc (though we all need a hobby to pass the time, I suppose)

Yet for all that, I wouldn't judge him, since I have never been in his shoes, with all the fame, adulation, money and hangers-on etc. Above all, I have no idea what it is to be an alcoholic, nor can I claim I would have coped any better had I been in his position.

And imo the same applies to Gascoigne, except that he has the added burden of being mentally ill.

But I'll tell you one thing; if I had to choose between his company for an evening, or that of those who rush to judge and condemn him from a position of uninformed moral superiority, I think I'd take my chance with Gascoigne, headcase and all!

[EalingGreen]

I found it somewhat suspicious that the 2 players you were asking the poster to comment on were both Irish (Northern or Republic) as it seemed to me that the real question was along the lines, "If he were Irish, would you say the same things about him?"

But if it was just a coincidence that they were Irish and Gascoigne is English, then yes, my point would not apply to you.
I assure you it was coincidence, though hardly a surprising one, if you think about it. For I am Irish, this is an Irish football message board and Best and McGrath were two of the greatest players, as well as two of the greatest hellraisers, Irish football has ever seen. I imagine this is why those two came first to mind.
In any case, I assumed that DTR would be more familiar with them than other (non-Irish) examples I might have named, like Stan Bowles, Frank Worthington or Stan Colleymore (though his later reply indicates he knows little of Best, at any rate).

[Denis The Red]

I can't pretend to know too much about McGrath (though I gather he has owned up to some pretty scandalous behaviour of his own when under the influence).
George Best is another matter, however. For example, both his former wives have alleged he abused them; he certainly left them penniless and in dire need, whilst he was nowhere to be found. By his own admission, he neglected his son. It is thought he had at least two children whom he never contacted or acknowledged. He spent 3 months in prison for drink-driving, assaulting a cop and jumping bail. He was later done for drink-driving again. He accepted a liver transplant which might have benefited another, then drunk himself to death within a couple of years anyway.
And as a player, he was notorious for failing even to turn up for matches, before effectively retiring from the game entirely at the age of 27, to devote himself to drinking, gambling and shagging etc (though we all need a hobby to pass the time, I suppose)

This is where I leave it, last word to you EalingGreen after this if you wish.
I think I may have touched a nerve.
But nail on the head with what you said, all done under the influence. I'd never condone any of the antics of the two you mentioned but my point being, that they both had problems with drink and they deserve some degree of sympathy, Gascoigne however wasn't always liquered up when he acted like a toe-rag. There's the difference.
And yes I'm very familiar with all you said about George and more besides. I don't like much of it and would agree with the fact that the liver he got should have gone to a more deserving recipient, but as the guy died from his failings anyway I find it all a little sad.
As for my moral high ground, I'm not an alcoholic either, but I've seen the effects of it first hand and it ain't pleasant (no sympathy required), so I don't get any pleasure of seeing Gascoigne destroy himself, I just don't see why I should care.

[Armando]

And in any case, don't you remember the Semi itself where, after Gazza was booked, Lineker looked to the bench, put his finger to his temple and mouthed: "He's lost it"?



Not that it really matters...but Linekars exact words to the bench were "Have a word with him"

...anyway good points made lads I enjoyed reading them.

I actually met Gazza back in the summer of '91. I was 12 at the time and we were on our way back through England after holidaying in France. We were staying in a Swallow Hotel in Bisham Abbey and when we went to use the swimming pool Gazza was in the changing room with a friend of his Joe Allen....both Billy Bollock naked!! It was some way to meet one of your idols:D

Turns out he was using the pool as part of his rehab. Such a nice guy, he realised we recognised him and weren't going to leave the pool until he did, so when he did his half hour or so he chatted with us. Jesus, I'll never forget the scar on his knee, it just looked so gruesome! He ended up challenging all 4 of us to a one on one race the length of the pool and he could only lie on his back and use his legs...of course he won all 4 races. It's a great memory. It saddens me how tough he finds it...just to function basically. Seems fame was the last thing he needed.


EDIT: Eerily, I just flicked on to Setanta Sports News now and first thing I hear is that Gascoigne will be on at 5.00 and will be answering viewers questions.

[NeilMcD]

Not that it really matters...but Linekars exact words to the bench were "Have a word with him"

...anyway good points made lads I enjoyed reading them.

I actually met Gazza back in the summer of '91. I was 12 at the time and we were on our way back through England after holidaying in France. We were staying in a Swallow Hotel in Bisham Abbey and when we went to use the swimming pool Gazza was in the changing room with a friend of his Joe Allen....both Billy Bollock naked!! It was some way to meet one of your idols:D

Turns out he was using the pool as part of his rehab. Such a nice guy, he realised we recognised him and weren't going to leave the pool until he did, so when he did his half hour or so he chatted with us. Jesus, I'll never forget the scar on his knee, it just looked so gruesome! He ended up challenging all 4 of us to a one on one race the length of the pool and he could only lie on his back and use his legs...of course he won all 4 races. It's a great memory. It saddens me how tough he finds it...just to function basically. Seems fame was the last thing he needed.


EDIT: Eerily, I just flicked on to Setanta Sports News now and first thing I hear is that Gascoigne will be on at 5.00 and will be answering viewers questions.

Its amazing the wonders modern healthcare in that I had an operation much more serious than Gazzas on my knee and my scars are not half as bad as his. I remember seeing his on TV and it was pretty bad.

[Pike B]

Its amazing the wonders modern healthcare in that I had an operation much more serious than Gazzas on my knee and my scars are not half as bad as his. I remember seeing his on TV and it was pretty bad.
Comparing ourselves to Gazza now.. Your ego knows no limits...

[Sligo Hornet]

Its amazing the wonders modern healthcare in that I had an operation much more serious than Gazzas on my knee and my scars are not half as bad as his. I remember seeing his on TV and it was pretty bad.


Comparing ourselves to Gazza now.. Your ego knows no limits...

He'll be drinking 24 cans a day of Special Brew soon:D

[Pike B]

Gazza

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00386/gaz_280x390_386272a.jpg


NeilMcD

http://s3.amazonaws.com/lightstalkers/images/159239/NFM-gazza-spitting-image_large.jpg

[NeilMcD]

Comparing ourselves to Gazza now.. Your ego knows no limits...

I would be more like Brian Clough to be honest:). How does comparing a very similar injury to Paul Gascoigne have anything to do with my ego. I did not compare my footballing ability. You like to get personal don't you.

[Pike B]

I would be more like Brian Clough to be honest:). How does comparing a very similar injury to Paul Gascoigne have anything to do with my ego. I did not compare my footballing ability. You like to get personal don't you.
What do you think of the pic? Good likeness?? :D

[NeilMcD]

It makes me look better to be honest.

[Pike B]

It makes me look better to be honest.
:D:D

Why Neil, you made me laugh..