Fidel steps down as Cuban President

[jebus]

BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7252109.stm)

Pretty historic day in the world's history as Castro officiallt steps down after 49 years in power. Love or loathe the man I doubt anyone can deny he is one of the major icons of the 20th century, and to be honest even the CIA must have a grudging respect for the way he has stayed alive and in power despite America's best attempts

[Lim till i die]

How long before America "Frees" the Cuban people?? :rolleyes: :(

[jmurphyc]

How long before America "Frees" the Cuban people?? :rolleyes: :(

Don't think it'll happen. At least not for a while anyway. They had their chance when he first relinquished the presidency.

[John83]

How long before America "Frees" the Cuban people?? :rolleyes: :(
If you want to be that cynical, there's not a lot of oil in Cuba.

[Lim till i die]

Don't think it'll happen. At least not for a while anyway. They had their chance when he first relinquished the presidency.

I genuinely give it Five Years tops.

[jebus]

I genuinely give it Five Years tops.

I'd call it at 3, depending who wins the Election though. The Republicans have always had more of a bee in their bonnet about Fidel than the Democrats (although that's not saying the Democrats despise the man), but I could see Obama being more touchy feely about the sunject than McCain

[jmurphyc]

I genuinely give it Five Years tops.

Would it even be worth it for them? I mean, Cuba isn't really a threat and there's no real money grabbing opportunity in Cuba. Most of the Cubans who despise Castro no longer live there so if America did try to invade(?) there would be a massive revolt.

[jebus]

Would it even be worth it for them? I mean, Cuba isn't really a threat and there's no real money grabbing opportunity in Cuba. Most of the Cubans who despise Castro no longer live there so if America did try to invade(?) there would be a massive revolt.

The Exiled Cubans still want it back, and America still want it so they can all laugh about those mad Commie years in their history books

[shakermaker1982]

Has Bush got time to invade Cuba before he steps down? I bet he'd love to add that to his CV of war mongering.

[John83]

Has Bush got time to invade Cuba before he steps down? I bet he'd love to add that to his CV of war mongering.
Time, yes. Money, troops and the support of the houses, not so much.

[Lim till i die]

If you want to be that cynical, there's not a lot of oil in Cuba.

I realise that.

But don't you still think they'd like to put Cuba over their knee for old times sake??

Plus they could make it a proper little holiday place.

Like the good old days before the revolution.

When peasants were peasants, gangsters were gangsters and everyone knew their place.

[Lim till i die]

The Exiled Cubans still want it back

They made a great job of their last attempt :p

Still, I suppose their ranks have been filled by generations of hardened criminals in the meantime

[noby]

Florida, a crucial state in American elections, possibly just got more interesting.

[superfrank]

Call me a cynic but I've developed a conspiracy theory.

Castro died either in the immmediate aftermath of the operation or in the time since and the loyal-to-Fidel Cuban government are too afraid of the Amercians invading or the people revolting if they announce it officially.

I mean if the man can't appear in public, how can he be expected to write a letter?

[Lim till i die]

Call me a cynic but I've developed a conspiracy theory.

I assumed he was dead aswell.

I don't see why the Cuban government would be afraid of the people revolting mind

[superfrank]

I assumed he was dead aswell.

I don't see why the Cuban government would be afraid of the people revolting mind
They'd lose everything they have and they'd probably be jailed.

[jebus]

Call me a cynic but I've developed a conspiracy theory.

Castro died either in the immmediate aftermath of the operation or in the time since and the loyal-to-Fidel Cuban government are too afraid of the Amercians invading or the people revolting if they announce it officially.

I mean if the man can't appear in public, how can he be expected to write a letter?

Castro was and is still very popular among the poorer Cubans so they wouldn't revolt against his chosen successor. I assume he is dead as well, but I think he died later then you think, he may not have been up for addressing a crowd in his state but that doesn't mean he was dead. The Americans probably won't invade with an armed force, but they will try and get a pro-American man on the throne

[Lim till i die]

They'd lose everything they have and they'd probably be jailed.

Why would the people revolt??

So they can have the glories of the market and their living standards risen to those of Haiti, Guatemala or Nicuragua??

[jmurphyc]

The Americans probably won't invade with an armed force, but they will try and get a pro-American man on the throne

Exactly. That may be why there are no elections in Cuba; if there were then America could just massively fund a pro-USA candidate and this may help him win, which Castro obviously doesn't want.

[Saint MacDara]

Just wondering is there a longer serving leader anywhere else in the world?

[Poor Student]

I have a feeling that Raul Castro will preside over a period of gradual normalisation before the old system begins unravel itself.

[NeilMcD]

Castro is exactly they way Fianna Fail would love to be in this country

[HarpoJoyce]

Just wondering is there a longer serving leader anywhere else in the world?

AP dated Feb. 19th
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-long-serving-leaders-glance,0,6670109.story

According to them the next current leader is President Omar Bongo of Gabon.
"Omar Bongo ascended to Gabon's presidency Dec. 2, 1967, after his predecessor's death. In his 70s, Bongo faces little political opposition in oil-rich West African nation of 1.5 million".
Thank God, Colonel Moammar Gadhafi of Libya is next. Still only a Colonel though, loser. Him and a group of lower ranked army officers who nobody (West or East Secret Services) had heard of "..took power through a Sept. 1, 1969, military coup in the oil-producing North African nation of 6 million people. In his 60s." There was a presumption they were Ba'ath Party members. Similiar to Political Parties in Syria and Iraq. The Americans courted him for about a year, until he kicked them out of Wheelus Air Force base. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/facility/wheelus.htm The Bay of Tripoli is a historic area for the marines/military forces. A low key cold war was established and Colonel Gaddhafi's (var. sp.) rejection of traditional Capitalism or Communism didn't help his entry into Cold War polictics.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/wheelus-air-base-tripoli-libya/3063017014

In Europe President Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060320/ai_n16208568
There's some nonsense about him being a dictator or something and polls that don't reflect the wishes of the community....
....but you don't get in that position without some help
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-164183483.html

[BohsPartisan]

Call me a cynic but I've developed a conspiracy theory.

Castro died either in the immmediate aftermath of the operation or in the time since and the loyal-to-Fidel Cuban government are too afraid of the Amercians invading or the people revolting if they announce it officially.

I mean if the man can't appear in public, how can he be expected to write a letter?

Castro was recently interviewed by Naomi Campell for GQ magazine I heard. Same series where she interviewed Chavez.
I think the yanks would be making a huge mistake by invading Cuba and it would probably lead to a huge outpouring of solidarity towards Cuba from accrosss Latin America leading to even more Chavez types in power - or worse for the US - real workers governments!

[pete]

Cuba has only held together under current "socialist" system due to Fidel Castro popularity. If it was the system that was popular it would continue without any problems but we all now that has slim if any chance.

[BohsPartisan]

Cuba has only held together under current "socialist" system due to Fidel Castro popularity. If it was the system that was popular it would continue without any problems but we all now that has slim if any chance.

Castro was popular for a reason and it wasn't because he could sing or was fantastically good looking.

[jebus]

Castro was popular for a reason and it wasn't because he could sing or was fantastically good looking.

BohsPartisan and Castro sitting in a tree......:)

Anyway I agree with you, people underestimate exactly why Castro is so popular, possibly because they believe the 'Cubans have no choice' media line, a bit too much. His achievements in education and healthcare are rarely given a mention, and most people don't realise how much he pushed equality in Cuba (fair enough, homesexuals weren't given full equality, but there are very few countrys that have even broached that subject, let alone given it)

[John83]

Anyway I agree with you, people underestimate exactly why Castro is so popular, possibly because they believe the 'Cubans have no choice' media line, a bit too much. His achievements in education and healthcare are rarely given a mention, and most people don't realise how much he pushed equality in Cuba (fair enough, homesexuals weren't given full equality, but there are very few countrys that have even broached that subject, let alone given it)
Now this is nonsense. Sky News, a Murdock-owned TV tabloid, mentioned his record in education and healthcare when discussing his retirement the other day, and gave it equal weight to his dictatorship. No one is unaware of these things.

[Lim till i die]

No one is unaware of these things.

But yet still people come out with simplistic drivel like:


Cuba has only held together under current "socialist" system due to Fidel Castro popularity.

The mind, she boggles at times.

[jebus]

Now this is nonsense. Sky News, a Murdock-owned TV tabloid, mentioned his record in education and healthcare when discussing his retirement the other day, and gave it equal weight to his dictatorship. No one is unaware of these things.

Don't watch Sky News so didn't see that, but any reports I've read have given a brief mention to his reforms (bar the Guardian, but you'd expect that) and left it at that, whilst implying that Cuba was held under his iron thumb from breaking free into democracy

[John83]

Don't watch Sky News so didn't see that, but any reports I've read have given a brief mention to his reforms (bar the Guardian, but you'd expect that) and left it at that, whilst implying that Cuba was held under his iron thumb from breaking free into democracy
Random sampling:
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7252109.stm):

Mixed legacy
It is not clear whether Mr Castro's retirement was prompted by a further decline in his health - the state of which is an official secret.
Though Fidel Castro has not been seen in public for 19 months, the government occasionally releases photographs and pre-edited video of him meeting visiting leaders from around the world.
The retiring leader will be remembered as one of the most distinctive and enduring icons from the second half of the 20th Century, the BBC's Paul Keller writes.
With his olive green fatigues, beard and Cuban cigars, Fidel Castro was the original Cold Warrior.
Under his leadership Cuba established the first Marxist-Leninist state in the Western hemisphere, almost within sight of the US coastline.
Embracing communism and the patronage of the Soviet Union, Fidel Castro transformed Cuba economically and socially but had to struggle when it collapsed.
He leaves his country with universal free healthcare and a much-admired education system, which has produced doctors for the developing world, but also a failing economy.

Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN1925995520080220?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true) has the bias you alluded to.

The Irish Times (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/world/2008/0220/1203371241118.html):

President Castro's legacy is a mixed one. His revolution swept to power deposing the ruthless American-backed dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista. He used his power to bring sweeping social changes and instituted widely admired healthcare and education systems. But he never brought back democracy, and economic mismanagement, coupled with sanctions, has left Cuba desperately poor.

In general, US outlets seems to have focussed on sound bytes from immigrants, which betrays the bias you mentioned.

The Sun, in a remarkably vacant piece of journalism, makes no judgement of the man - no mention of positives or negatives of his reign.

The Mirror borrowed a lot of their text from Reuters.

Overall, I'm struck by how many times I've seen the same phrases reused again and again - so much lazy journalism.

Anyway, to sum up, I don't think either of us is entirely right here Jebus, but you're certainly right that there's some bias out there, mainly fed from US outlets. Some reports this side of the Atlantic are balanced, some are not, particularly those using a lot of material from wire services.

[Billsthoughts]

"Eventually this transition ought to lead to free and fair elections. And I mean free, and I mean fair -- not these kinds of staged elections that the Castro brothers tried to foist off as being true democracy" George Bush
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080219/pl_afp/cubacastrousbush_080219141432
Anybody see the above press conferance?
Has the man no sense of irony? I couldnt help but think replace Castro brothers with Bush brothers and the statement still would have rang true.:D.....

[Eire06]

Like every government in the world Castro had his supporters and opposers.
All I have met respect him for what he has done for his country.
His education system in particular should be an example to all other countries.

People say the Cuban people can't complain about Castro and the government - this may have been the way in the past but I have personally heard many Cubans complain about their government. They are now free to express their opinions about their government and are getting more say in who governs the country.

People say the media in Cuba is censored - this is not true I watched both CNN and BBC news while staying in houses in Cuba, I even got to see an episode of One Tree Hill in one Casa. ( I personally think the American Media is more censored)

There is a new generation of highly educated Cubans who are getting frustrated with the limitations imposed on them, in particular the restrictions on travel and work.
With such an increase in tourism to the country they get annoyed that they can't visit other countries, or even earn enough money to visit other countries.

The above is just what I found when travelling around Cuba. There are good and bad sides to the Cuban Government as with every other government in the world.
I can see changes will come as the leaders of the country changes, but Cuba is a country which has been changing for many years, its just happening much slower that the rest of the world.
The trade embargo America has imposed is partially to blame for this slow process, as they 'threaten' other countries who do trade with Cuba.
For a country with no real natural resources I think Castro has done a good job

[jamie m]

think cuba is safe enough for now from american military intervention, the fact that their military resources are severley overstretched as it is in iraq and afghanistan gives the cubans a bit of breathing space. If they are in a position in the future to launch another invasion i think they have their eye on other targets- notably Iran.

[BohsPartisan]

To illustrate my last post, the first paragraph in this article sums up exactly why Fidel is popular:

Castro’s resignation opens up new chapter

What are the prospects for the revolution?
Peter Taaffe, Socialist Party (CWI England and Wales)

The formal resignation of Fidel Castro as President of Cuba opens up a new chapter in the history of Cuba and its revolution. Since his original illness in 2006 (an intestinal problem) intense discussion has been engendered about Castro’s role, linked to the future of Cuba. His resignation now signifies that he is unlikely to recover and that the Cuban government is seeking to prepare the Cuban population for his death, maybe soon. When this happens, it will be marked publicly by mass demonstrations, particularly throughout Latin America. Despite any shortcomings and mistakes of Fidel Castro, he is recognised by the downtrodden masses worldwide as a monumental figure who tenaciously fought against their capitalist and imperialist oppressors.
The rest of the article (http://www.socialistworld.net/eng/2008/02/21cubaa.html)

[rambler14]

Just wondering is there a longer serving leader anywhere else in the world?

Frank Murphy with the Cork County Board:D
Actually he's taking over from Castro when he officially steps down:D

[pineapple stu]

AP dated Feb. 19th
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-long-serving-leaders-glance,0,6670109.story

According to them the next current leader is President Omar Bongo of Gabon.
"Omar Bongo ascended to Gabon's presidency Dec. 2, 1967, after his predecessor's death. In his 70s, Bongo faces little political opposition in oil-rich West African nation of 1.5 million".

You're missing Queen Elizabeth, crowned in 1953. The Thai leader who died recently held the record before Castro, I think.

[GavinZac]

You're missing Queen Elizabeth, crowned in 1953. The Thai leader who died recently held the record before Castro, I think.

Leader, not figurehead.

[HarpoJoyce]

You're missing Queen Elizabeth, crowned in 1953. The Thai leader who died recently held the record before Castro, I think.


Leader, not figurehead.

I think you are both right. (I'm only glad I put "according to them..." in my original post)

Longest serving leader measures control/management and date of beginning of control. I believe its not an exact science (maths).

Actually I totally forgot about QEII EUR. Never crossed my mind that what I was posting didn't include that sweet old lady.