Have fans been too harsh on the FAI?

[Ireland4ever]

Heard that alright, but he also said that O'Brien's money allowed them to substantially raise the bar in the search for the new manager. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.

Not neccessarily, maybe the FAI were willing to pay in excess of what they are giving trappattoni. But since they said that they would have got trappatoni regardless of the money indicates that they had the funds in the first place, and now there's money left over from what they expected to pay.

[KevB76]

Are you for real?? This isn't the English FA with bags of money we are talking about its the FAI. If someone is offering a donation then why turn it down?

As for taking money out of the grass roots and eL to pay Trappatoni just proves to me what knowledge and regard you have for the development of Irish football. :rolleyes:


I think you may have missed the blatant sarcasm in his post :eek:

[cavan_fan]

Can they judge a manager?

You're seriously suggesting they were experts because they were available?

Don Givens was a very good footballer, but seems to understand next to nothing about management, so your point that the understand football is irrelevant.

I am saying that they were as good as anyone I can think of. All 3 know more about football than anyone on here. Again, name one person who would have been better.

[sullanefc]

I think you may have missed the blatant sarcasm in his post :eek:

maybe :o

[pineapple stu]

Not neccessarily, maybe the FAI were willing to pay in excess of what they are giving trappattoni. But since they said that they would have got trappatoni regardless of the money indicates that they had the funds in the first place, and now there's money left over from what they expected to pay.
It's very easy now to say they would have paid the money regardless.

Delaney said the money from O'Brien enabled them to expand their search upwards. That to me clearly indicates that Trappatoni wasn't someone they would have been looking at, due to financial constraints, until the money arrived in November.


All 3 know more about football than anyone on here.
That constitutes an expert now, does it?

[cavan_fan]

That constitutes an expert now, does it?

What would an expert be? You dont have to name names.

[Ireland4ever]

It's very easy now to say they would have paid the money regardless.

Delaney said the money from O'Brien enabled them to expand their search upwards. That to me clearly indicates that Trappatoni wasn't someone they would have been looking at, due to financial constraints, until the money arrived in November.


That constitutes an expert now, does it?


Fair point, but we've got a top class manager for half the price, HAPPY DAYS!

[pineapple stu]

Fair point, but we've got a top class manager for half the price, HAPPY DAYS!
Agree 100%.

[sullanefc]

I don't see how that's relevant, to be honest. You suggested that we had a panel of experts picking the manager, and I challenged that assertion.


All 3 of them understand football, have good contacts and were available. They are just the right sort of people to do this job. If nothing else the outcome shows this.


Can they judge a manager?

You're seriously suggesting they were experts because they were available?

Don Givens was a very good footballer, but seems to understand next to nothing about management, so your point that the understand football is irrelevant.


Heard that alright, but he also said that O'Brien's money allowed them to substantially raise the bar in the search for the new manager. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.


I am saying that they were as good as anyone I can think of. All 3 know more about football than anyone on here. Again, name one person who would have been better.

I'd say give it up cavan_fan. You won't be able to talk him out of his negative ways. If you keep going he will probably just lock the thread anyway as it suits him.

[pineapple stu]

I'd say give it up cavan_fan. You won't be able to talk him out of his negative ways. If you keep going he will probably just lock the thread anyway as it suits him.
What are you talking about?!

How can I lock this thread?

Have you any actual points to make?!

[sullanefc]

What are you talking about?!

How can I lock this thread?

Have you any actual points to make?!

I've made my points above thank you. And i'm also giving a fellow poster some friendly advice about UCD fans and the way they argue.

It's actually Poor Student who locks thread when he doesn't get his way, so apologies for accusing you of that.

Anyway, on topic, I can't believe people are criticising the FAI and Denis O'Brien for this great deal for Irish football. As someone said above, some people are never happy.

[viagogo]

I find it amazing that people on this site are giving out about the FAI taking Denis O'Briens money. I mean look at Niall Quinn and his buddies investing in Sunderland. Its about time these businessmen invested in Irish football rather then in mickey mouse English teams.

[Superhoops]

The appointment was not made by the process (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-official-approached-trapattoni-1279643.html), ergo the process was a failure....
Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

Today's press conference showed the poor standard of football journalism in this country.

[barney]

I've made my points above thank you. And i'm also giving a fellow poster some friendly advice about UCD fans and the way they argue.

It's actually Poor Student who locks thread when he doesn't get his way, so apologies for accusing you of that.

Anyway, on topic, I can't believe people are criticising the FAI and Denis O'Brien for this great deal for Irish football. As someone said above, some people are never happy.


You were dead right in principle anyway.

I don't mean to be personal Stu but you are pursuing a personal agenda on here and that's having a go at the FAI regardless of the fact that they have done well in this instance.

Who are you to say that Don Givens seems to understand nothing about management? He's forgotten more about football than you, or I, will ever know. Ray Houghton has played in some top class teams and coached at a good level as well. He's been around the game all his life. As for Don Howe...if you don't think he is an expert on the game of football, I suggest that you look at his CV. These fellas are all very good football men. They know the game, they've lived the game. You have no right to question them just because you have a gripe with the FAI.

Oh and SullaneFC, my post re the FAI taking money out of the grassroots was sarcastic!!

[keenanboy]

No, I don't think that fans have been too harsh on the FAI. It has been a mbadly run organisation for a long time now and has more negatives than positives. from ticket fiascos back in USA 94 to the management structure problems documented in the Genesis report, fans have had a right to voice their discontent. but it is a great day for Irish soccer with todays appointment and it is by miles the highlight of John Delaney's reign, so we'll give him that. Maybe it will help to usher in a new era of professionalism too.

[pineapple stu]

Who are you to say that Don Givens seems to understand nothing about management?
Threads like these really get the FAI apologists out of the bushes anyways!

I'd say Givens' record with the U-21s shows he knows nothing about management.

But in any case, it was suggested that we had an expert panel to pick the new manager. I still haven't heard anything to back that up.


I've made my points above thank you.
No you haven't. You've just moaned without knowing what you're talking about.

Still, nice to see you're also giving that fellow poster giving some friendly advice about Cork fans and the way they argue.

[geezer]

Delaney is very smart though I dont personally trust the guy. That quango called a board of management are all in his pocket, always lookin for free biscuits, tea and expenses while the real board of eddie j, dennis and john d pull the wool over givens, and the free biscuit and expenses brigade. Give eddie, dennis and john oh add in Liam, eamon and johnny G and probably bill great credit though for the trappatoni no argueing there although when we are all sitting in the new lansdowne or croker bored with one man up front it might be a different story

[sullanefc]

No you haven't. You've just moaned without knowing what you're talking about.


And you know what you are talking about?? You're opinion is the be all and end all? Get off the UCD high horse will ya!:rolleyes:

[barney]

I'd say Givens' record with the U-21s shows he knows nothing about management.

But in any case, it was suggested that we had an expert panel to pick the new manager. I still haven't heard anything to back that up.


How does it show he knows 'nothing about management'?

Why are the three people not experts in your eyes? As I've said, these guys have played and coached at a high level, they've lived the game and not pontificated about it from behind a keyboard. In my eyes that makes them experts. What criteria do you use to classify an expert?

[John83]

Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

Today's press conference showed the poor standard of football journalism in this country.
Givens is quoted in that article, a damning quote which fully supports my assertion. If you want to claim that it doesn't, or that he didn't say that, do so, and give your reasons.

Your post is hardly any more convincing than a stubborn school kid who's arguing a lost cause petulantly saying, "So?"

[tetsujin1979]

If you were told 4 months ago that the process would take 4 months and we would end up with a genuine world class manager, would you have been happy with that? Probably not, given that the last time we were promised a world class manager, we got Stan.
However, the FAI do deserve credit for this appointment, and may have even earned back some trust from that fans. Maybe.
I started a thread a few months ago asking a simple question - have the FAI done anything correctly? - and now I believe that we can add "appointing the successor to Steve Staunton" to the list.
This doesn't take away from any of their other (multiple) faillings, but in the short term it does offer hope that more will be done correctly in the future.

[cavan_fan]

Threads like these really get the FAI apologists out of the bushes anyways!

I'd say Givens' record with the U-21s shows he knows nothing about management.

But in any case, it was suggested that we had an expert panel to pick the new manager. I still haven't heard anything to back that up.


No you haven't. You've just moaned without knowing what you're talking about.

Still, nice to see you're also giving that fellow poster giving some friendly advice about Cork fans and the way they argue.

The ideal panel would be:

A recent player, understands the players etc. Houghton seems a relatively articulate guy (for a footballer) and is well respected in the game.

An older Irish football man who is invovled in footbal. Given the fact TV people were ineleiglbe, I can only really see Joe Kinnear and Eoin Hand (maybe) instead of Givens.

A non-Irish older guy with good links in footbal. Now given that it was likely that a UK based manager would be sought Howe is a respectd neutral football man in England. You could have replaced him with someone like David Pleat or Howard Wilkinson but I'm not sure there was much in it.

In the end the idea was to pick 3 available experts and they did that. It might have been nice to have someone with more continental knowledge but in the end Givens' Swiss connections seem to have been useful.

I'd have no objection with these 3 being picked again.

[pineapple stu]

It might have been nice to have someone with more continental knowledge but in the end Givens' Swiss connections seem to have been useful.
Givens' Swiss connections proved useful? You say this while we have a quote from Givens that he never approached Trappatoni? Who was, of course, managing in Austria?

[sullanefc]

Givens' Swiss connections proved useful? You say this while we have a quote from Givens that he never approached Trappatoni? Who was, of course, managing in Austria?

Making stuff up now are we??? The newspaper I have in my hand says otherwise. :rolleyes:

[Greenforever]

What experts did we have finding a manager?

I see no-one's echoed Roy Keane's comments that we've just gone four months without paying a senior manager, thereby saving about E300k.

we're technically still paying Stan :D

Mind you Roy might be better keeping his Trap shut and when he has a few titles under his belt as a manager then he can talk about managers:D

[Ozymandias]

Mind you Roy might be better keeping his Trap shut and when he has a few titles under his belt as a manager then he can talk about managers:D

if thats the case then we might as well shut down the forums although I have won every honour in championship manager therefore I'll keep the place going till you all get sorted with a few titles

just as an add on and staying off topic..Roy won a title in his first season as manager

[NeilMcD]

It will be interesting what rent a quote has to say on this. What angle will he slag the FAI with. Will he slag them for taking money for an Irish investor ha ha !!! or will he slag them for getting a top class manager who has won it all in club football.

[sullanefc]

It will be interesting what rent a quote has to say on this. What angle will he slag the FAI with. Will he slag them for taking money for an Irish investor ha ha !!! or will he slag them for getting a top class manager who has won it all in club football.

Or he could take Dolan's view that the FAI only hired a world class manager to keep the media onside. :rolleyes:

[NeilMcD]

Did Dolan really say that. That is a classic. Thats like saying to ones missus, you are only giving me a blowjob to keep me onside. Who cares one is getting a blow-job.

[sullanefc]

Did Dolan really say that. That is a classic. Thats like saying to ones missus, you are only giving me a blowjob to keep me onside. Who cares one is getting a blow-job.

:D

I know. I honestly thought Dolan had more cop on than that. Obviously not.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Or he could take Dolan's view that the FAI only hired a world class manager to keep the media onside. :rolleyes:

Hasn't worked judging by today's Herald and the grilling they took yesterday!! :D

[dr_peepee]

What experts did we have finding a manager?

I see no-one's echoed Roy Keane's comments that we've just gone four months without paying a senior manager, thereby saving about E300k.

I'd say you'd find that went on stans pay off...

Giving credit were it's due is not the same as giving absolution.

The FAI did well... They got the best available manager... They' have already predeflected any criticism that may come down the line because A) Trapp is the Best we could have got and B) It wasn't Delaney , it was the 3 man comitee that recomended him.

I wonder in hindsight about the relevence of the formal comitee when the like of Giles, Brady and Givens would have offered their services anyway in some cappacity. (Given that Giles and Brady did, and Givens already worked for them). But hey, I don't give a b0llix. All's well that ends well.

Come on Garvan, McCann, O'Halloran, O'Dea and Sheridan.... Give Trapp the squad he deserves to work with!!!!!!

[pineapple stu]

Making stuff up now are we??? The newspaper I have in my hand says otherwise. :rolleyes:
Read. The. Thread. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-official-approached-trapattoni-1279643.html) :rolleyes:


Earlier this week, Givens said that no contact had been made with Trapattoni and that the panel had one more interview to conduct [with Billy Davies] before making their recommendation.

"When I see that story I find it absolutely amazing. We haven't spoken to Trapattoni and I find it rather hard to believe the FAI are going behind our backs," said Givens on Tuesday in reaction to initial reports surrounding the Italian.



I'd say you'd find that went on stans pay off...

Sunk cost though.

[barney]

When I see that story I find it absolutely amazing. We haven't spoken to Trapattoni and I find it rather hard to believe the FAI are going behind our backs," said Givens on Tuesday in reaction to initial reports surrounding the Italian.

Do you honestly think Givens would have come out, before Trap was appointed, and told the media he was in negotiations?

[jmurphyc]

Do you honestly think Givens would have come out, before Trap was appointed, and told the media he was in negotiations?

Of course he wouldn't. But why did he feel it was necessary to answer the way he did when he hadn't done that with other candidates?

[sullanefc]

Read. The. Thread. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-official-approached-trapattoni-1279643.html) :rolleyes:


2nd of Feb :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

So last week, the media were aware of a link with Trappatoni, but Givens denied he'd been in touch. This week, he's taking all the credit (http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2876) for the appointment. Does that not strike you as in any way strange?

[NeilMcD]

Hi lied last week in order to protect the privacy of Trappatoni. Simple as that.

[pineapple stu]

Makes no sense. Why accuse the FAI of going behind his back, etc? Why not just give no comment?

[tetsujin1979]

Makes no sense. Why accuse the FAI of going behind his back, etc? Why not just give no comment?
That's what we need. Secrecy from the FAI.

[Metrostars]

Makes no sense. Why accuse the FAI of going behind his back, etc? Why not just give no comment?

Where does Givens accuse that FAI of going behind his back?

He made those Trap comments that he had not talked to him long before negotiations were complete. I don't think any of the 3 had confirmed they had interviewed any particular candidate before this so he rightly denied talking to Trap to keep other options open and to not potentially upset the Red Bulls. Really Stu, you are nitpicking at this stage.

[John83]

...I don't think any of the 3 had confirmed they had interviewed any particular candidate before this...
So the bit just before that quote where he confirms they're about to interview Billie Davies, I'm hallucinating that, right?

Both interpretations (that Givens lied to the press or that Trappitoni was contacted by someone other than the selection committee) are consistent with the available facts. Pineapple Stu will believe what he wants to, and you'll believe what you want to. Arguing in a vacuum over who's right is moronic.

[HarpoJoyce]

So last week, the media were aware of a link with Trappatoni, but Givens denied he'd been in touch. This week, he's taking all the credit (http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2876) for the appointment. Does that not strike you as in any way strange?


So the bit just before that quote where he confirms they're about to interview Billie Davies, I'm hallucinating that, right?

Both interpretations (that Givens lied to the press or that Trappitoni was contacted by someone other than the selection committee) are consistent with the available facts. Pineapple Stu will believe what he wants to, and you'll believe what you want to. Arguing in a vacuum over who's right is moronic.


Givens' Swiss connections proved useful? You say this while we have a quote from Givens that he never approached Trappatoni? Who was, of course, managing in Austria?

Other posters are polite enough not to point out that even though Giovanni Trapattoni has been managing since 1979, your spelling of his name has alot to be desired. Your arguements get diluted when you don't know how to spell one of the more successful managers of your generation. One of your quotes even links to an article with Senor Trapattoni's name in bold.

Among the wider community, respect for football fans is lost because of the actions of a few mindless individuals.

RTE to the rescue
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/features/trapattonig.html

Aertel
http://www.rte.ie/aertel/229-01.html
http://www.rte.ie/aertel/223-01.html

[NeilMcD]

You sir and are a pedant and to point it on more than one thread it simply OTT

[HarpoJoyce]

You sir and are a pedant and to point it on more than one thread it simply OTT

I disagree. My own post above is directed to fans I know personally and concern's the spelling of a chap's name. By taking some moments to learn the spelling, shows respect.

The same way many posters are posting on various threads concerning the same action/decision. I've posted on the song thread and the "things to do thread" keeping to topic each time.


Language is about communication, so correct spelling or grammar aren't vital. However, repeat errors of someone's name shows a disinterest and the amount of knowledge known of the subject.

Thanks for this opportunity to forward publish my own ideas.

[TonyD]

You sir and are a pedant and to point it on more than one thread it simply OTT

Shouldn't that read "you sir are a pedant" ??:p

[BaZmO*]

....concern's....
No need for an apostrophe there.

[Bondvillain]

Shouldn't that read "you sir are a pedant" ??:p

No. It should read "You, sir, are a pedant."

but maybe I'm just being....What's the word? :D



(Punctuation usage for amusement value only. Not to be quoted verbatim. Or regarded as correct.)

[John83]

I disagree. My own post above is directed to fans I know personally and concern's the spelling of a chap's name. By taking some moments to learn the spelling, shows respect.
I'm with Harpo on this one. Trapattoni is the national team manager now. We should really learn to spell his name. It shouldn't be too hard. We've gotten used to queer foreign names before, like Lawrenson, Cascarino and Staunton.


No need for an apostrophe there.
Burn. :D

[HarpoJoyce]

A lot of people vented frustration over how long the process has taken and with the whole headhunter system and frustration over Givens involvment and whatnot.

But the bottom line is that the FAI have appointed an excellent manager .....

We often call the establishment a joke, but they've installed a world class manager who's signalled his ambition to take us to the top of our group.

Yes, the organisation have put up with an awful lot of abuse over the years, it can reduce some of the need for the abuse through its own actions, but you won't please everyone.

I'd like to add to Ciaran's question and ask is the FAI stronger, as an Association, for continuing in its activities while resisting the urge to make a change at the top of the organisation. Which appeared to be endemic for a few years in the past.