Accountancy Profession

[Lim till i die]

I'm coming into the final stretch of my honours degree over the coming weeks and I've decided that Accounting is probably going to be the road I go down.

Anyone on here have any tips??

ACCA or CPA or does it matter??

Would you advise entering a firm or getting a job in a company??

Without igniting another one of our classic Public v Private debates is the Civil Service a viable road to go down??

Any advice on anything (Er, preferably accountancy related) much appreciated.

[MyTown]

I'm coming into the final stratch of my honours degree over the coming weeks and I've decided that Accounting is probably going to be the road I go down.

Anyone on here have any tips??

ACCA or CPA or does it matter??

Would you advise entering a firm or getting a job in a company??

Without igniting another one of our classic Public v Private debates is the Civil Service a viable road to go down??


1. Learn to spell:o

2. Talk to Nick Leeson or the guy from Societe General :D. (Seriously, Leeson is a hell of a nice guy).

3. I know loads of former Private Sector Accountants who went CIMA or ACCA and jumped to the public sector asap...terms & conditions etc. etc.

4. Best of luck

[Lim till i die]

1. Learn to spell

Oh, Boo yourself :p


2. Talk to Nick Leeson

Will I be allowed into the Golden Ticket area for a word on Friday?? :)


3. I know loads of former Private Sector Accountants who went CIMA or ACCA and jumped to the public sector asap...terms & conditions etc. etc.

As bland as it sounds I'd love a civil service job. :)


4. Best of luck

Cheers.

[paul_oshea]

I dont know, much, other than what ive been told by mates so i wont bother departing as its better coming first hand.

However, before you go to the civil service ( for whatever reason ), try going to an Investment Bank or a prestiguous FS private sector company. It will really give you some bargaining power when/if you decide to go public ( or even private again )sector.

I will say this though, a mates sister had a great starting salary from college in the DOF.....and i think its a full pension too :8

[John83]

ACCA or CPA or does it matter??
There was a good, long thread on it on boards (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055027317). Seems to amount to "depends".

[Lim till i die]

There was a good long thread on it on boards (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055027317). Seems to amount to "depends".

Cheers.


I will say this though, a mates sister had a great starting salary from college in the DOF.....and i think its a full pension too

Now, that's what I'm talking about :p :cool:

[Macy]

Anyone on here have any tips??
Don't do it, unless you are really committed to doing the further study necessary.


ACCA or CPA or does it matter??
It depends on where you see yourself going. ACCA would have a higher standing, but either really. CPA has the reputation of being slightly easier, and is defo grand for the public sector.


Would you advise entering a firm or getting a job in a company??
Depends on where you see yourself going. If you have aspirations of going it alone, you might as well bite the financial bullet and go into practice.


Without igniting another one of our classic Public v Private debates is the Civil Service a viable road to go down??
Certain sections of the Civil Service. For example, the Comptroller & Auditor General. Not sure about the rest of the civil service tbh, but I suspect they do have graduate programmes.

As for the wider public sector, on the plus side you do get support to do your studies - exam and study leave and largely you wouldn't be expected to put in the crazy hours that some in the private sector would which is an additional study help. Far better work life balance in the public sector for sure.

However on the negative side, you'll start off at a low salary (don't believe the average wage bull in the news, a CO isn't on that great money). Promotion isn't always done on a merit basis, and you do need there to be vacancies to move into which doesn't always happen. You won't necessarily automatically get promotions/ wage increases that your qualifications probably deserve.


Any advice on anything (Er, preferably accountancy related) much appreciated.
I came out of college wanting to do accountancy, took a break from study and now a few years down the line find i have no interest in it. If I had just carried on studying, I probably still wouldn't be interested in Accountancy/ Finance anymore, but I would be qualified.

[Lim till i die]

Don't do it, unless you are really committed to doing the further study necessary.

I genuinely think that wouldn't be a problem for me.

I actually kind of enjoy it :o


As for the wider public sector, on the plus side you do get support to do your studies - exam and study leave and largely you wouldn't be expected to put in the crazy hours that some in the private sector would which is an additional study help. Far better work life balance in the public sector for sure.

All the pluses I had been going through in my head.


However on the negative side, you'll start off at a low salary (don't believe the average wage bull in the news, a CO isn't on that great money). Promotion isn't always done on a merit basis, and you do need there to be vacancies to move into which doesn't always happen. You won't necessarily automatically get promotions/ wage increases that your qualifications probably deserve.

Followed by more or less all the cons. :eek: :)

Is the public sector a fairly open market these days or should I be searching for relatives on the inside??


I came out of college wanting to do accountancy, took a break from study and now a few years down the line find i have no interest in it. If I had just carried on studying, I probably still wouldn't be interested in Accountancy/ Finance anymore, but I would be qualified

Interesting.

Good piece of advice man.

I have been considering doing something menial for the summer so I've time to think things through.

Cheers.

[paul_oshea]

sorry, in advance, for sorta hijacking this thread,

but can any qualified accountant, do books for somebody else and actually handle all the liasing with the revenue commissioners?! or do you have to have an extra qualification to do that?!

[Macy]

Is the public sector a fairly open market these days or should I be searching for relatives on the inside??
Pretty much open I would say, with the Civil Service probably fairer than the general Public Service (we have had fairly brutal examples of political interference and political connections here at quite a low level, but it is getting less as the corrupt people retire). Haven't really come across the relative thing at all in my coming on for 9 years in the public sector (I'm sure it has happened, but hasn't been as blatant as some of the political stuff).

For the most part, especially at entry levels, the only real advantage with relatives/ connections is in giving you relevant information to prepare for interviews rather than you having to trawl through lots of info/ websites.


Interesting.

Good piece of advice man.

I have been considering doing something menial for the summer so I've time to think things through.

Cheers.
Basically don't pick it just because you're good at it, make sure you have an interest in it as being good might not be enough to make you want to study or go to night classes when all your mates and co workers are going out on the beer and there's football on the tele...

[passinginterest]

A fella that was working with me (Civi service) was doing his accountancy exams when I started. He finished them and took a career break and is working for a company in Edinburgh for a year. He worked in IT in the civil service, looking after the financials system, I'd imagine he'll try to get back into a financial department.

As a CO starting out the money is pretty poor to be honest (especially if you're renting in Dublin). If you have your qualification you should be looking to get in at EO or even HEO level, the money is around 30,000 at EO, plus pension and all that so it's all good.

Even if you get in at CO you can go for external competitions for EO and HEO and after 2 years you qualify for internal competitions.

[pineapple stu]

Not a huge amount of difference between the various qualifications that I've ever seen.

I started in a small-ish practice (25 people), and have since moved into industry. If you go practice, I'd advise against the Big Four - you won't get a fraction of the experience you would in a smaller place. It'd also help you more with your exams, as far as I can see (if you work in a bank, you won't get any experience of auditing, for example, which will hiner you for auditing exams). Give it a few years in a small to medium practice and you'll work one-to-one with a fair few financial controllers and other people in industry, which will help you decide where you want to go in a few years.

Also, don't expect to get paid much until you qualify!

[paul_oshea]

stu, have you worked for any of the "big four"?! The name is invaluable in Ireland, from what I have seen anyhow.

who do you mean by the big four:

accenture, kpmg, deloitte and PWC?!

[pineapple stu]

No, I haven't. However, I know people who have. While I was out doing audits on my own within a few weeks of starting, others were reconciling 80 bank accounts for Dunnes, or stuck in a secretarial department doing nothing but filing CRO returns. The name may be invaluable, but the experience is much better in a smaller company.

E&Y are in there, not Accenture, who are a consultancy company.

[paul_oshea]

The name may be invaluable, but the experience is much better in a smaller company.

ya that might be true alright. I know that a lot of the time you dont get the same exposure in the overall picture alright.

[kingdom hoop]

On the 'Big Four or not' thing, I think if you are ambitious and reasonably confident in your passion for - and natural ability in - the area then you should definitely go for the Big Four route.

While what Sir Pineapple says about menial duties is somewhat true, the point is that, if you display aptitude and a good attitude then you won't be stuck 'making the tea' for long, rather given the opportunity to progress up a more hierarchically defined ladder. After that hard work-laden (80 hour weeks at times) climb you'll have and begin to garner better experience (ie you'll be working with bigger, more diverse issues and companies) than in a small practice, and also be given more responsibility (as in you'll be guiding the newbies as they come along rather than them finding their own way in the smaller practice) if you show above-average competence.

In other words, I think that the small practice route might be more tolerable and interesting in the initial stages, meaning you're less likely to drop out of the process. But in the long run, and presuming you are actually committed to giving it a lash, the bigger and better career prospects are spawned from the Big Four pond.

In general, good choice. Accountancy is, as you shrewdly note in the thread title, a profession. It's very good training for a career in finance, or just business generally. And of course will help you to make millions when you start your own company. Be sure and report back with your progress!

[Dotsy]

I qualified with KPMG (quite a while ago now) as a Chartered Accountant and got excellent experience over the four years I was there. I got to work across a range of industries and the scope of your work widens as you progress up the ladder. I also got to spend periods working in the Corporate Finance and the Tax Department as well as just auditing.

You tend to get much better study leave working for the big four firms (much more than the obligatory leave set by the Institute). They encourage you to take the overtime you worked during the year as additional study leave. It is a big advantge over smaller firms which can't afford to let their staff take the extended time.

It gives you a very good grounding in all aspects of business. Most people leave soon after qualifiaction and take jobs as financial controllers etc. After a few years you can easily progress from that to other areas of managament.

I don't know anyone that qualified with me that is still doing pure accountancy. They all used it as a springboard to move into other areas.

[pineapple stu]

You tend to get much better study leave working for the big four firms (much more than the obligatory leave set by the Institute). They encourage you to take the overtime you worked during the year as additional study leave. It is a big advantge over smaller firms which can't afford to let their staff take the extended time.
That is true. Although it's offset to a large extent by overtime, especially around the tax deadline. I hardly ever did overtime when I was in practice.

[OneRedArmy]

The Big 4 is better on the CV and better if you want to transfer into corporate finance, banking or consultancy which most do as soon as their contracts are up. I have no doubt however that PS is correct in that you will get much more experience of accountancy in a small firm much earlier. Big 4 juniors do banks recs and photocopy, its a test of endurance rather than a job. I would also advise those who go Big 4 to avoid the FS practices unless they really want to go into banking. Funds work.........(eyes glaze over in memory...).

[lionelhutz]

I'm currently a trainee accountant with a small practice in Limerick. I finished my ACA exams last September - ACA is part of the institute of chartered accountants in Ireland - the ICAI.

I still have to complete a three and a half year training contract which runs until April 2009 so I'm almost 2 and a half years in. I completed a degree in Business Studies in UL before starting this training contract. And the accountancy exams i did in UL meant i was exempt from the first level of ACA exams. Are you doing a similar course?? There may be exemptions you should find out about

All the lads i know who went into accounting from UL did ACA rather than ACCA or CPA. We were advised to because, along with getting those exemptions, we were told ACA is more internationally recognised. Whether this is true or not I'm not so sure.

ACCA is pretty much the same level as ACA. I don't think you've to complete three and a half years training in ACCA though whereas its compulsory in ACA. CPA is certified rather than chartered and the exams are a little easier as far as i know.

I'm happy with my choice of ACA even though I'm on shocking pay since I started which only slightly improves through the training contract. But the average salary once you complete the training is well above average.

I'd advise anyone who's thinking about accountancy as a profession to make sure they actually enjoy that line of work instead of deciding to do it for another reason (eg the dosh!). Because you'll be found out very quickly if you've no interest which happened a few of my friends. The exams are very tough and the work would be very tedious for somebody only in it for the money

I really enjoy being in practice as you get to deal with a wide range of clients and encounter many different people and problems whereas in industry it might get very repetitive. Also, on the debate re the Big Four vs the rest, theres only 8 people working in my firm and I really enjoy it here. I do get a variety of work, the only problem being I don't get exposed to as much auditing as trainees in the big four would - thus why I failed auditing at Prof 3 level (the level before the finals) but I learned from my mistake and put way more effort into it for the finals.

Sure let me know if you want to know anything more about it

[Dotsy]

I would also advise those who go Big 4 to avoid the FS practices unless they really want to go into banking. Funds work.........(eyes glaze over in memory...).


The mere mention of Funds Management is enough to put me to sleep and this is 12 years after leaving auditing.

[Angus]

Agree with most here - I am ACCA - qualified in 1994.

I studied in a private college for a few years and then finished exams at night while working in a small practice.

If I had my time over again, I probably would go the big 4 route but I am not sure I would have stuck it out because of what the guys have said.

One thing to note - very few accountants do accounting work - management, consultancy, product development, financial services, sales, marketing - all of these things are open to you as an accountant and whiole you do very little accounting in your daily job, the qualification is a massive advantage

[passinginterest]

You might be interested in this: The Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General is holding a competition to recruit Trainee Auditors http://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=2996&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=1914&sgDest=JOBLISTING

[paul_oshea]

Agree with most here - I am ACCA - qualified in 1994.

I studied in a private college for a few years and then finished exams at night while working in a small practice.

If I had my time over again, I probably would go the big 4 route but I am not sure I would have stuck it out because of what the guys have said.

One thing to note - very few accountants do accounting work - management, consultancy, product development, financial services, sales, marketing - all of these things are open to you as an accountant and whiole you do very little accounting in your daily job, the qualification is a massive advantage

ya thats in the case of those who generaly dont go down the small business route of carrying out audits. If you go the route of the big 4 you have far more opportunites to diverse.

The banking side of it alone is huge ( probably the biggest area ), fund, prime brokerage, compliance, Finance, Control, market-makers, investment banking etc.....its definitely where the serious money can be made also.....but not in administration i might add, which is what a lot of them do in Ireland.

[Lim till i die]

You might be interested in this: The Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General is holding a competition to recruit Trainee Auditors http://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=2996&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=1914&sgDest=JOBLISTING

As daunting aqs this seems I'm considering looking into it :)

Cheers.

[Dricky]

Keep on going, Big 4 have their advantages if you want to move abroad.

Otherwise if you want to stay in Ireland look at what is/was big in the UK, Tax, Mergers and acquisitions!!!

Surrounded by Fund accountants here and I have to say I don't know how they do it. it would drive me mad!!

[endabob1]

There’s lots of good advice, on here.
I’m CIMA qualified, have been for 7 years. I did the 3 year diploma in Athlone and then took a break for a few years to get some work experience to back up the qualifications before studying at night to get the finals, hard work but worthwhile in the end. There is an absolute ceiling on your potential earnings without being fully qualified.
Depending on what you want to do long term really will determine whether to go for ACCA or CIMA personally I wouldn’t go the CPA route as both ACCA & CIMA would be more recognised aboard I live in the UK and have worked in London, Cape Town & Melbourne, so I know as a qualified Accountant you will get good work as long as you have good qualifications and good experience.

I actually spent a year in a small practice in Ireland before doing CIMA when I did the Techician exams and the experience gained there was invaluable. That said I have friends who’ve gone through the big 4 (or big 6 as it was in my day) and there are many more doors open to you, they all have consulting arms where a lot of Accountants end up and as mentioned elsewhere a lot of companies will specifically recruit ex-big 4 trainees as they understand the corporate world better than a small practice graduate.
Almost all my friends who are accountants have eventually gone into industry there are a couple in banking and one in IT/Project management but no-one I know that stayed in Practice, I think what I’m saying is while you might want to go into the Public Sector now, in 5 years time you might feel differently so don’t restrict or limit yourself now