Republic of Ireland V Brazil - Wednesday, 6th February 2008 - Friendly

[onceahoop]

The row at the corner of the canal and Cusack was nearly in the exact same spot as the one during the Cypress game. Saw the schooligans pulling their scarves over their faces after the game at back of stand and heading for Jones' Rd. Went back into Cusack and out onto Clonliffe Road. The Gardai were preventing people from the Canal end getting out onto Clonliffe Road. The poxy Mexican Wave is becoming a nonsense. Ruining anyones chance of enjoying the game.

As for the game, I thought Brazil played within themselves, while we seemed to be content to let them play it around in front of us. Surprised Brazil didn't test Given with some shots from outside the box, they seemed to be obsessed with getting around the back of us. Thought McGeady should have been delegated to pick up the right back when he was bombing forward on the opposite side to the play. Kilbanes job has to be to tuck in behind the centre halves on the cover.

As for the goal, Carsley just got squared up to much with Robinho.

The centre of midfield never got going and we were relying on Duff and McGeady to create openings. But if we're going to rely on these two then we need a big centre forward to get on the end of crosses.

Finally thought Givens might have been a bit generous and given a few more subs a few minutes near the end.

[mypost]

A lad I work who is a Real Sociedad fan went to the match. His first time seeing Ireland. He couldnt get over how technically inept they were. He was genuinely baffled at the way they played or attempted to play that is.

What was he expecting?? :confused:

If you're looking for technical ability and sexy football, you don't watch us. You watch games like Portugal v Italy, or Spain v France.

[Bottle of Tonic]

:confused:
Has paranoia taken you over. There is no pleasing some people until the whole world agrees with them.
Have you read the thread or just focussed on the 2 or 3 posters who were negative about McGeady?
The vast majority of posters on this thread thought that McGeady had from a good game to MOM.


Yeah, probably. I was hungover to hell today and typed that with Mr. Paranoia sitting on the couch here beside me. Major uncertainty and his mate the fear are still hanging around the kitchen. They're up to no good.

[onceahoop]

Yeah, probably. I was hungover to hell today and typed that with Mr. Paranoia sitting on the couch here beside me. Major uncertainty and his mate the fear are still hanging around the kitchen. They're up to no good.

I think you need to go and lie down.

[DeNiro]

Can anyone identify Given's assistants?

[Bondvillain]

Can anyone identify Given's assistants?

Mo and Curly, I believe.

[Junior]

A ball which he hiimself won, net effect zero.
Couple of misplaced passes?? Thats about par for an attacking player.
Look at Duffs first three crosses, all useless. No comment about that then.
And he almost created a goal scoring opertunity, probably our best chance of
the match when in came in from the centre right of the box.
What had we created up until then - answer nothing, zilch.
The only think I can recall was Kilbane getting past a man or two down
the left, but that ending in nothing I can recall.

Ok you have me. He was defintiely a 9 then........

because he nearly created a goal. to use your words "net effect zero".

I didnt comment on any of the other players, positive or negative, I just found your grading of Hunt ridiculous. As I said he did put in two decent crosses but that was it.

[danonion]

Can anyone identify Given's assistants?

Paul Clement I believe

[geysir]

Yeah, probably. I was hungover to hell today and typed that with Mr. Paranoia sitting on the couch here beside me. Major uncertainty and his mate the fear are still hanging around the kitchen. They're up to no good.
Sounds more like a dose of the DeeTees :)

[4tothefloor]

Atmosphere was rubbish, and has been for a long time now, qualifiers included. We have no songs, apart from the incredibly annoying and almost retarded 'stand up for the boys in green'. And we seem to have made the huge mistake of seating every annoying little bol**x in the corner between the Davin and Cusack as that's where the pathetic Mexican waves are emanating from. Who are the crowd in that corner?

[jmurphyc]

Does anyone have this game on tape? I was wondering where I could get a copy of it.

[Billsthoughts]

What was he expecting?? :confused:

If you're looking for technical ability and sexy football, you don't watch us. You watch games like Portugal v Italy, or Spain v France.

oh alrite...glad ya cleared that up...:rolleyes:

[OwlsFan]

What was he expecting?? :confused:

If you're looking for technical ability and sexy football, you don't watch us. You watch games like Portugal v Italy, or Spain v France.

Watch those games and 50% of the games will be players rolling round in agony pretending they're injured and lots of diving.

Perhaps you find that sexy ;) ?

[Schumi]

And we seem to have made the huge mistake of seating every annoying little bol**x in the corner between the Davin and Cusack as that's where the pathetic Mexican waves are emanating from. Who are the crowd in that corner?Seems to be the schoolkids' section though it seems to be much more full of skangers than in Lansdowne.

[Stuttgart88]

a Real Sociedad fan went to the match. His first time seeing Ireland. He couldnt get over how technically inept they were. He was genuinely baffled at the way they played or attempted to play that is. What we saw last nite and what we have seen for a long time has been below par. Is it too much to ask that our international team can put their foot on the ball and use it intelligently? On this point, and especially in the context of the possibility of us getting an Italian manager, it's interesting to read some of the UK press dissecting Capello's first match in charge of England, whose players play in the same league as ours by and large. Powell in the daily Mail was his usual xenophobic self and Simon Barnes in The Times was surprisingly so as well ("pah, what's wrong with up and at 'em? We invented the game" type shyte).

This piece from the Independent says it all though:

Fabio Capello's right-hand man, Franco Baldini, has criticised the lack of "technical skill" in the England squad – and said that the players have to get used to double training sessions while on international duty so that they can improve their passing.

Baldini, who holds the title of England's general manager under the new regime and is a major influence on Capello, acknowledged that the tougher approach, working the players harder before games, might not go down well with Premier League managers.

"We need more technical skill," Baldini said. "We have to practise, practise, practise. Unfortunately, we have the players just for a few days every two months and so, on this occasion, we made four training sessions [instead of two]. Maybe some managers here [in England] will not approve of this, but we have to try at all times so that we can do that."

Baldini's ideas are certainly a reflection of what Capello truly thinks and he added that the English game needed to change drastically. "We are trying to play more with the ball because the English culture is after two, three horizontal passes the crowd is asking for the ball [gestures through the air[," he said in the wake of the 2-1 friendly victory over Switzerland on Wednesday evening.

"We have to try and play more. We have to play with more confidence because it's easier to play when the ball is at your feet. So we have to try and incorporate this confidence in our game, in our self, to give us more chances. Some things were good in this game, some things not. But it was good enough from my point of view."

Funny thing is that Ireland actually has some technically good players who do like to pass the ball. Carsley's distribution was shocking but the rest of our shortarse midfield options are all good ball players but lack presence. McCaffrey's U21s (me going into broken record mode again here) played crisp passing football so we do have this type of player coming through. Even in 2002 without Keane we passed the ball well. We can do it.

However, with the futures of our young players so entangled in the English game I really hope that the FAI's technical develoment plan is bringing up our kids to play the way they do in Europe.

[Billsthoughts]

I saw a great programme the other day comparing football in this era to the fifties in england and basically saying not much has changed. Best part of it were the clips of the Hungarians 6-3 win at Wembley. Has anyone ever seen these? amazing play. Deffo think we need to set up a few academies in Ireland and take control of our own youth development. But who do we have that would have any experience of youth development.....????:)

[ifk101]

But who do we have that would have any experience of youth development.....????:)

Brian Kerr ;)


Other national sides were looking to learn from us at one stage. But not anymore :D

[eirebhoy]

Funny thing is that Ireland actually has some technically good players who do like to pass the ball. Carsley's distribution was shocking but the rest of our shortarse midfield options are all good ball players but lack presence.
When I think of technical ability I think of purely a players ability with their feet. Nothing more. imo what British and Irish players lack is the movement, quick decision making, basic tactical awareness and intelligence. One touch football would usually be basic 10 yard passes. You don't need to be especially technically gifted to play that kind of pass. The brain is the most important thing. Ambrosino and Gattuso are not great technically but they can play very quick one touch football with Milan and Italy.

I'm sure it goes back to the fact that our younger players play on huge pitches. Being fast and fit is a lot more important for our players at that age than to be techincally gifted. It's completely different in Brazil where they play in tiny area's.

[Stuttgart88]

Nothing more. imo what British and Irish players lack is the movement, quick decision making, basic tactical awareness and intelligence. One touch football would usually be basic 10 yard passes. You don't need to be especially technically gifted to play that kind of pass. The brain is the most important thing. Yep, and also the courage to make yourself available for that easy pass, having the confidence to look for the ball even if you're not in loads of space. I used to prentend I wanted the ball but never really did!

I read an ex-Celtic player after they lost in Benfica this year, citing ball retention as an alien factor in Celtic's away performances. He said Benfica would get the ball, work it wide and if a good option wasn't available they'd work it back into the middle again and go to the other side and keep the cycle going. Celtic would get the ball, work it wide and if nothing was on it'd go back to the centre back who'd hoof it!

[eirebhoy]

This season in the CL I thought Celtic were outclassed in every single match. All it takes is Nakamura being in the team for home games against the likes of Benfica and Shakhtar to change that though.

Anyway, our brainless one dimensional play is the main reason why I'd love Trapattoni to get the job. A proper coach who'd change that.

[geysir]

You would have been a fan of Giles then Eirebhoy:)
He attempted the impossible, to turn us into a passing team, retaining possesion.
One of his best games as manager was against Argentina, imo one of the best passing games ever by an Ireland team. I´d say we were toe to toe until Maradonna took the stage.

[eirebhoy]

Aye I guess I would have been so, despite the fact I don't rate him as a pundit. :) It's the main reason I was such a fan of Kerr's tbh.

[paul_oshea]

When I think of technical ability I think of purely a players ability with their feet. Nothing more. imo what British and Irish players lack is the movement, quick decision making, basic tactical awareness and intelligence. One touch football would usually be basic 10 yard passes. You don't need to be especially technically gifted to play that kind of pass. The brain is the most important thing. Ambrosino and Gattuso are not great technically but they can play very quick one touch football with Milan and Italy.

Well said EB, I couldn't summarise it as well as you put it there but I alluded to this in the England v Croatia game. What we have seriouslly lacked away from home is this ability and its why we have lost or drawn when we should have won. We cant keep possession and it comes down to this.

However, I am not so sure that this is something that we can just "learn" or change ( overnight ), I actually think its something from a young age that is a skill and is then refined and brought on as you get older. I think its too late for our current batch to "learn" this new skill, it needs to start from u10s up.


Yep, and also the courage to make yourself available for that easy pass, having the confidence to look for the ball even if you're not in loads of space. I used to prentend I wanted the ball but never really did!

HaHa! :D me too that brought a smile to my face!! Though I did stop doing this and thats when I moved down a level and was made captain of the B team :( On the first point, I think it does stem from a confidence thing that is nurtured from a young age, you dont see any of our players looking for the pass unless they have loads of space and then ye see the wingers or whoever else dilly dallying about hoping to get a throw or something. I assume though this is what a good coach can spot ( not just us ) and can actually help remedy it - somewhat re: my original point for the use of the word somewhat!

[mypost]

Ultimately, it's about scoring more goals than the opposition. A goal from a 60-yard hoof means the same as a 40-pass, 4-yard tap in. You play to your strengths, and ours are work ethic and team spirit. If you prefer pretty football, look elsewhere.

[eirebhoy]

Ultimately, it's about scoring more goals than the opposition. A goal from a 60-yard hoof means the same as a 40-pass, 4-yard tap in. You play to your strengths, and ours are work ethic and team spirit.
I don't agree at all. Maybe with Hunt, Carsley, Morrison as first team players that'd be more our strength but not with Duff, McGeady, Reid, Keane, Ireland and hopefully Garvan. They're all classy players who wouldn't relish a battle.

[Condex]

I don't agree at all. Maybe with Hunt, Carsley, Morrison as first team players that'd be more our strength but not with Duff, McGeady, Reid, Keane, Ireland and hopefully Garvan. They're all classy players who wouldn't relish a battle.

Morrison classy are you having a laugh :confused:
Premiership managers don't seem to think so!!

Its amazing how average players who rarely performed well for Ireland
in the past, suddenly become 'classy' with the passage of time..

[paul_oshea]

i dont think he was saying morrisson was classy at all....

[eirebhoy]

Aye I don't know how you read it like that Condex. :)

"You play to your strengths, and ours are work ethic and team spirit."

"I don't agree at all. Maybe with Hunt, Carsley, Morrison as first team players that'd be more our strength"

[eirebhoy]

Just watching the match again. Duff wasn't as offside as first looked for McGeady's pass.

Just before the ball is struck (http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9448/duffoffside1oj4.jpg)

As soon as the ball is struck (http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/456/duffoffsideis6.jpg)

Just After (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1989/duffoffside3or1.jpg)

3 seconds earlier he was alongside the 3 Brazilians with the only thing on his mind to outpace them.

I just pretty much watched McGeady all match tbh. Tracked back all the time. Very composed with the ball in defensive situations. His movement to receive the ball was excellent. Most of his passes were simple but Strachan really is turning him into a proper playmaker. Can't wait to see him at 28/29 but I guess I have to. ;)

[Stuttgart88]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that 4-3-3 is what'll work best for us right now.

Kelly / J. O'Brien - Dunne - O'Shea - Kilbane

Reid - Reid - Hunt

McGeady - Keane - Duff

I deliberately avoided specifying which Reid as in principle each could do well in the middle or the right of that 3.

Assuming at least one Reid is injured (fairly certain) then options include Liam Lawrence and J. O'Brien for the RHM spot, Carsley or Delap for the CM spot). If either McGeady or Duff is injured or off form, Hunt could play left sided forward, allowing maybe Garvan or Stephen Quinn to play left sided midfield.

The front 3 is a bit like United's front 3 - good, clever attacking players who can improvise.

Jon Walters is even an option for the right sided forward as cover.

Advantages: numbers and bite in midfield, good ball users too. Mobility and direct running upfront. This shape and personnel will allow ius to take more control of a game and it allows us to have more of our good players on the pitch. It also doesn't place much pressure on inexperienced kids coming through, and if they're needed it'd be in a stronger shape where they'd fit in easier. Their time may come during the campaign anyway. The 4th game is over a year away.

Doyle and Morrison on the bench.

[kingdomkerry]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that 4-3-3 is what'll work best for us right now.

Kelly / J. O'Brien - Dunne - O'Shea - Kilbane

Reid - Reid - Hunt

McGeady - Keane - Duff

I deliberately avoided specifying which Reid as in principle each could do well in the middle or the right of that 3.

Assuming at least one Reid is injured (fairly certain) then options include Liam Lawrence and J. O'Brien for the RHM spot, Carsley or Delap for the CM spot). If either McGeady or Duff is injured or off form, Hunt could play left sided forward, allowing maybe Garvan or Stephen Quinn to play left sided midfield.

The front 3 is a bit like United's front 3 - good, clever attacking players who can improvise.

Jon Walters is even an option for the right sided forward as cover.

Advantages: numbers and bite in midfield, good ball users too. Mobility and direct running upfront. This shape and personnel will allow ius to take more control of a game and it allows us to have more of our good players on the pitch. It also doesn't place much pressure on inexperienced kids coming through, and if they're needed it'd be in a stronger shape where they'd fit in easier. Their time may come during the campaign anyway. The 4th game is over a year away.

Doyle and Morrison on the bench.

Would'nt agree with Reid Reid Hunt. If your playing Duff and McGeady(which i agree with) you need holding players. When does Hunt ever hold midfield. Id go for S Reid Carsley and Ireland any day

[eirebhoy]

Would'nt agree with Reid Reid Hunt. If your playing Duff and McGeady(which i agree with) you need holding players.
S.Reid's playing that role for Blackburn and Andy Reid is going to be holding midfield from now on imo. A natural deep lying player who'll instinctively take the ball from defense and distribute it.

I agree with Stutts. 4-4-2 isn't an option for me. I've gone off wingers. McGeady and Duff would be better if they're involved in play more for us than playing as out and out wingers. Duff is too influential for us to not have him drifting inside and linking up while that's McGeady's natural game too. Even Hunt is playing in the centre for Reading now.

[shakermaker1982]

just back from the game after a detour up north visiting the in-laws and I have to say it was dreadful (even for a friendly). McGeady and Duff had decent games but they were the only positives. 1 thing I hope we have learned from last Wednesday is that if we keep on playing McGeady on the left wing then we cannot have Kilbane behind him. The two of em just don't have any positional sense whatsoever when it comes to defending. Let's hope a proper LB like O'Halloran gets some exposure at the saints and then Villa give him a few games next season.

I was more excited watching Garvan the night before in the u21's, fingers crossed for this kid. Carsley/Miller and Potter are not going to take us anywhere.

[Stuttgart88]

With 3 in midfield I don't think you need two "holding". Hunt is incisive and adds bite, Steven Reid is strong and can put his foot on the ball and also carry it well, Andy Reid can put his foot on the ball and pass it brilliantly. The thing with 3 in midfield is that if anyone is injured or suspended there are more combinations from our available players (including Carsley & Ireland) that work than in a 2 man CM with wingers.

[eirebhoy]

--------Reid------Reid----------
---Duff----Ireland----McGeady---
------------Keane--------------

Thankfully if Trap gets the job we're likely to see a lineup like that.

[paul_oshea]

why do you say that EB, im sure he hasn't a clue about any of the Irish players to be honest...there will be someone helping him out on that front.

[eirebhoy]

why do you say that EB
I'm just basing it on his previous teams. 4-2-3-1 is his system with a pacy striker and 3 attacking players supporting. Even with Italy he used Perotta as one of the 2 central midfielders and he's an attacking midfielder. He plays a defensive system but doesn't use overly defensive players.

[Scram]

--------Reid------Reid----------
---Duff----Ireland----McGeady---
------------Keane--------------

Thankfully if Trap gets the job we're likely to see a lineup like that.

Keane doesn't work as a lone striker, being proven at every club and at international level, so I don't expect to see that, and, there is no one there in the front 4 to get up for crosses, or are we looking at purely ground football, because if that's the case, McGeady and Duff's crosses will be wasted. I think you have to ahve someone liek Doyle upfront with Keane behind him .

[eirebhoy]

It's worth a try though in that system. Unlike British football, Italian coaches don't ask the entire team to get back and defend leaving the striker isolated. He plays on the counter so there'll always be a couple of players supporting Keane.

[jmurphyc]

Keane doesn't work as a lone striker, being proven at every club and at international level, so I don't expect to see that, and, there is no one there in the front 4 to get up for crosses, or are we looking at purely ground football, because if that's the case, McGeady and Duff's crosses will be wasted. I think you have to ahve someone liek Doyle upfront with Keane behind him .

I really think we need to start playing it on the ground a lot more. When everyone is fit we have a fair few players with good passing and vision so I think that playing it on the ground could work for us, and anyway we have barely any players who are effective in the air. If a team can stop the supply to Kilbane and Doyle then they stop pretty much all of our aerial attacks.

[Stuttgart88]

I really think we need to start playing it on the ground a lot more. When everyone is fit we have a fair few players with good passing and vision so I think that playing it on the ground could work for us, and anyway we have barely any players who are effective in the air.

Here's what today's Guardian says about Andy Reid

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,2255557,00.html

Reid helps Sunderland's learner drivers steer clear of relegation


Louise Taylor at the Stadium of Light
Monday February 11, 2008
The Guardian


Roy Keane likens his Sunderland side to an improving learner driver with cause for cautious optimism about passing their test in May. Since starting weekly lessons last August there have been moments of despair but, these days, the instructor is not looking quite so nervous and has reason to believe that clutch control could soon be perfected.

"It's a bit like driving lessons. We're getting more and more right and we now need to do all the good things at the same time to pass the test," explained Keane, whose hopes of avoiding relegation were boosted by a fourth consecutive home league win which leaves Sunderland four points clear of the drop zone and three ahead of Wigan.

Much as a novice motorist is prone to jarring gear changes, Keane's team have struggled to control the tempo of games and seemed unsure when, or how, to slow things down this season but on Saturday assistance arrived in the unlikely shape of Andy Reid.
When the decidedly tubby Ireland midfielder, recruited from Charlton Athletic for £4m, stepped off the substitutes bench to begin warming up he looked more like a member of the public who had won a competition to be part of Sunderland's match day squad than a Premier League footballer.

Appearances though can be deceptive and, with his first touch, Reid controlled an awkward ball adroitly before spotting Daryl Murphy accelerating down the right wing and providing him with an inch-perfect crossfield pass. All that remained was for Murphy to cut inside on his left foot and unleash a 25-yard shot which crashed in off the underside of the bar.

Having taken a first-half lead courtesy of Dickson Etuhu's header from Dean Whitehead's free-kick, Sunderland found themselves 2-0 ahead on a day when a combination of misses, the woodwork and some fine saves from Craig Gordon thwarted a sporadically menacing Wigan.

Steve Bruce's side were further frustrated by Reid, who used his experience and nous to retain possession and introduce team-mates to short passing triangles.

"The Premier League is fast and furious but there's a time and a place to put your foot on the ball," explained Keane. "Some players get sucked into the hustle and bustle but the good ones know when to stand back. Andy put his foot on the ball, slowed things down and played some nice one-twos which was exactly what we needed."

A keen guitarist and singer-songwriter, Reid frequently encouraged his former Tottenham Hotspur and then Charlton team-mates to engage in musical soirées.

Robbie Keane is no longer around to accompany him on the banjo but Reid has brought his guitar to Wearside where the Sunderland manager trusts he will prove a relaxing influence off the pitch and an unlikely catalyst on it. "Andy has something we haven't got," said Keane. "The standard Premier League midfielder is now 6ft or more tall and very strong. I can't make Andy 6ft 2in but he's got quality and the rest is up to him. Let's not kid ourselves, you've got to be as fit as possible to play Premier League football."

Following a bright start with Nottingham Forest, fitness issues, battles with his weight and debilitating injuries stymied Reid's progress at Spurs but he denies that less than uber professionalism has undone him. "The stuff about lack of fitness comes from people who haven't worked with me and don't know what I'm all about," he said.

As with Reid, Jason Koumas's Prozone statistics can sometimes suggest an economy of effort but he, too, reads nuances lingering between the lines of games and spots passes few others see. Yet if Wigan looked infinitely more cohesive with Koumas off the bench and in their midfield during the second half, Bruce believed they were undone much more by bad luck than any initial lack of managerial judgment.

"We won 3-0 in the FA Cup here last month but we've played twice as well today and lost," he said. "I think we'll stay up, though - and so will Sunderland." Perhaps but mutual survival may yet depend on Bruce and Keane ignoring Prozone and offering Koumas and Reid midfield string- pulling scope.

(presumably the porint version introduces comment on Daryl Muprphy at this point)Naturally a striker, he impressed out of position on first the left wing and then the right before scoring a contender for goal of the season.

Best moment His goal. An unstoppable long-range shot past Chris Kirkland, going in off the underside of the bar

Mods: is there an Andy Reid thread? Perhaps it'd be more appropriate in that section.

[Stuttgart88]

And this is from The Times:

Soon he will be plucking them, but presently Andy Reid is pulling the strings at Sunderland. An avid amateur guitarist, the Ireland player intends to inflict his musical tastes on his teammates, although not before orchestrating their attempts to avoid relegation. Where there was discord on Saturday, Reid brought harmony.

In a brief appearance from the substitutes’ bench - his debut for the club – the 25-year-old Dubliner added gravitas to the Sunderland midfield. Portly he may be, but Reid provided something Roy Keane’s team have lacked. Call it creativity, vision, or time on the ball, it was a counterpoint to endeavour and sweat.

Defeat was harsh on Wigan Athletic, who struck the woodwork twice in the second half and dredged some fine saves from Craig Gordon, but they appeared to freeze in front of goal. Even when Jason Koumas arrived they had no equivalent to Reid, whose immediate intervention was to sweep a brilliant pass the breadth of the pitch for Daryl Murphy to score, blissfully, from long range.

The Stadium of Light burst into song – relief was deepened by the defeats suffered by Fulham, Reading and Bolton Wanderers – and Reid was tempted to follow suit. “I only signed last week, so I haven’t had a chance to get my guitar out,” he said. “But I do play a bit. It’s nice to do something different. I was brought up listening to Irish folk and I should be OK with that in this dressing-room.”

[DeLorean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRZx0pxUHdQ