LOI Magazine

[Keen2win]

What would you think to a weekly/fortnightenly ELOI magasine. Was anything tried before? I thinh we are long overdue a proper magasine with facts, figures, interviews etc.

[Buller]

Just dont call it "eircomLIVE"... I can't believe the new highlights show might be called that... Also, yes but I think it has been tried before but not enough people bought it.

[Paddyfield]

I have most copies of Irish Soccer Magazine which became defunct in the early 1990's. It was colourful and gave all results and team lineouts and sometimes estimated attendences. It was edited by a sub editor from the Irish Times. It also had articles about the international team and Irish players in the Britain.

Then there was "11-A-Side" which was very dull; it was brought out by the same people who produce GAA magazine "Hogan Stand". It always had a colour cover but with black and white pages throughout. It was printed on a poor quality paper which pretty much sums it up.

The extended coverage of the game in recent years by Irish newspapers and in particular the tabloids would probably indicate that bringing out a new Irish soccer magazine would be commercially unviable.

[scottish_bohs]

By the sounds of it the new extratime site could have the potential to be the online equivalent. Here's hoping anyway.

[finnpark]

What would you think to a weekly/fortnightenly ELOI magasine. Was anything tried before? I thinh we are long overdue a proper magasine with facts, figures, interviews etc.

It would take a lot of time and effort.

I can see it working if supporters from all clubs co-operate by supllying interviews, stats, match reports, photos etc. Otherwise it could become very time consuming and expensive. I would think that if it was done well there would be 10,000 to 20,000 sales per month. Just guessing. I think its a good idea but not a good business idea unless the founders get a lot of voluntary help from supporters.

If you got sales of even 5,000 to a very specialised market advertising space could become a good earner. Ive see magazines with readerships less than 5000 charging €3000+ for page ads and getting it many times over

[A face]

Its something that the league could do, covering all aspects of Irish football and it might even raise a bit of revenue if it took off.

There was one in the pipeline a while back, i dont know how thats coming along.

[dcfcsteve]

It would take a lot of time and effort.

I can see it working if supporters from all clubs co-operate by supllying interviews, stats, match reports, photos etc. Otherwise it could become very time consuming and expensive. I would think that if it was done well there would be 10,000 to 20,000 sales per month. Just guessing. I think its a good idea but not a good business idea unless the founders get a lot of voluntary help from supporters.

If you got sales of even 5,000 to a very specialised market advertising space could become a good earner. Ive see magazines with readerships less than 5000 charging €3000+ for page ads and getting it many times over

I hate to be negative, but you won't sell 5,000 copies of an EL magazine. Somewhere between 1-2,000 on a good month, but nowhere near 5,000

What killed Soccer Magazine was the introduction of the ban on cigarette advertising. B&H had a contract for the back page of the magazine, without which it went to the wall. Shows you how tight the margins were on the publication.

That said, the league is more widely supported now than it was back then (early-to-mid 90's) so it would have a larger target audience at least. Still difficult to make it work - althout the Irish League can keep a magazine going (with heavy reference to the Norn Iron squad, and I suspect IFAfunding).

[Port Saint]

I always liked the idea of the 'Record' in Aussie rules. One match program for all games with an section for each game and the main article and team sheets begin set around whatever game is on TV.
They could be sold in shops in advance of the games and in the ground on the night with a relevant team listing inserted.
I like reading programs and I'm not to bothered that all are baised based on the home team (althought one team in the Prem are over the top with thier self importance - only one I hear you say:)). But I'd love a magazine along these line with special international editions around the time of Ireland games and European edition for our LOI club games in Europe.

[John83]

Aren't the FAI doing something with one of the tabloids this year? I think there's some sort of regular magazine in the works.

[A face]

I hate to be negative, but you won't sell 5,000 copies of an EL magazine. Somewhere between 1-2,000 on a good month, but nowhere near 5,000

No magazine can survive on just sales alone. Most publications have costs covered and some to spare on advertising and sales are just a bonus, the only reason they really care about sales is it enabled them to give bigger figures to potential advertisiers. Its all about adverts.

[dcfcsteve]

No magazine can survive on just sales alone. Most publications have costs covered and some to spare on advertising and sales are just a bonus, the only reason they really care about sales is it enabled them to give bigger figures to potential advertisiers. Its all about adverts.

Not true A Face - it all depends on the Magzine and the topics covered.

I know plenty that survive largely or almost entirely upon sales. They tend to either be magazines for rather narrow interests groups, which would struggle to attract much interest from advertisers (and survive largely through subscriptions) or extremely popular magazines that have a relatively high circulation that generates a good income in itself (e.g. the Economist, Newsweek etc - none of which carry much advertising, and have a relatively high cover price).

The EL is arguably a fringe interest - I have no doubt more people in Ireland collect stamps, for example, than go to EL games regularly. The fact that the removal of only a single advertiser sank Soccer Magazine shows how little income advertising would generate for an EL magazine. It'd be much more dependent upon sales/subscriptions than an average magazine would be.

[ashbournebohs]

dcfcsteve i think you are being a little negative.The last magazine fell away a fair few few years ago in another era if you will especially in terms of the eircom league.In todays market there are a lot more favourable variables.
The league is heading full time for good or bad.
The setanta cup is around now which would boost content.
A lot of LOI players are getting underage international recognition extra content
European football could be a feature for 1 issue
More disposable income around now even with the kids.

If their was a good deal of thought put into it and it was done on a co operative basis i think it could be done professionaly. Eight issues starting on the 28th march running until the end of the season with space for all clubs to include their merchandise ranges etc .5000 sales would be a realistic target and country wide around the clubs i think you would achieve that in time together with subscriptions for irish abroad (you could entice irish bars around europe to take up a sub)Pitch it at 4 euro and sell it inside the grounds with decent sponsorship it could take off but, and here is the but it would need significant input from the FAI.However that could be broached through the club promotions officers so i would say an email to either noel mooney or fran gavin would be worthwhile

[Boh_So_Good]

An LOI magazine would have a much better chance of working now. But it would have to grown-up like Four Four Two and cover the National team as well. I would add the IL as well.

Marketing would make or break it. There are all kinds of magazines in Ireland for fringe markets and hobbies. They can survive, so why not a LOI magaizine. Perhaps 6 issues a year to start and sold at all grounds and at international matches as well as the usual newsagents.

There would be no shame on having Liam Whealan on the cover of this months in his Ireland jersey and a feature about the Irish Busby Babes - that would just be a sales pitch to get the average Joe to buy in. Inside it would be filled with mainly LOI stuff.

There is a market out there. But putting the priest from Limerick CurrentID FC swinging his rosary beads from the dug out at Jack Off Park on the cover won't sell.

[dcfcsteve]

dcfcsteve i think you are being a little negative.The last magazine fell away a fair few few years ago in another era if you will especially in terms of the eircom league.In todays market there are a lot more favourable variables.
The league is heading full time for good or bad.
The setanta cup is around now which would boost content.
A lot of LOI players are getting underage international recognition extra content
European football could be a feature for 1 issue
More disposable income around now even with the kids.

If their was a good deal of thought put into it and it was done on a co operative basis i think it could be done professionaly. Eight issues starting on the 28th march running until the end of the season with space for all clubs to include their merchandise ranges etc .5000 sales would be a realistic target and country wide around the clubs i think you would achieve that in time together with subscriptions for irish abroad (you could entice irish bars around europe to take up a sub)Pitch it at 4 euro and sell it inside the grounds with decent sponsorship it could take off but, and here is the but it would need significant input from the FAI.However that could be broached through the club promotions officers so i would say an email to either noel mooney or fran gavin would be worthwhile

I'm not being negative at all - just realistic. Let's do a back-of-envelope business case on such a magazine.

Starting with the potential target audience. There are 11 Eircom League games every weekend - 6 Prem and 5 First. Between them, those games attract a total average crowd of about 15-20,000 depending on the time of season, whether better supported teams are home or away on any given week etc etc. But the active EL fan-base ascross an entire season is in the 15-20,000 range (i.e. assumes avge across year of 2,000+ at each Prem game, and 700+ at each First Division one. Not unreasonable assumptions).

That range covers both the most committed EL fans - the ones without whom a magazine just would not survive - and the secondary tier of occassional and very occassional fans - the sort who'd buy it very occassionally, just like their attendnace at games. Let's say the split is about 70-30 in favour of the most committed fans vs the occassional in that 15-20,000 average attendance range

So - to achieve sales of 5,000 per month/whatever time period for an EL magazine, you'd require 25-33% of your entire target audience to buy the magazine. That is a completely unrealistic starting point for any bsuiness case fora magazine. 5-10% purchae rate - yes (i.e. 1,500-2,000 copies). But not 5,000 copies, or 25-33% of totla audience.

Secodnly - if you take the assumption that such a magazine would be overly reliant upon hardcore EL fans - the 70% of the 15-20,000 assumed above, that only leaves you a maximum hardcore audience of 10,500-14,000. You simply weill not achieve sales of anywhere near 5,000 for a magazine amongst that target base - it just would not happen.

Obviously an EL magazine would have otehr readers apart form those who go to games - e.g. exiles, the odd person buying it randomly etc etc. But over the course of a year they would add very, very low hundreds to the buying volume so can almost be ignored.

The bottom line is that any business case hoping to sell 5,000 copies of an EL magazine would be based on pie in the sky, given the actual active interest levels in the league.

[cheifo]

It would help a lot if you could employ a sales person with seriously good agency contacts.It would also obviously have to be a labour of love as even if you did well selling copies/adspace there is'nt a lot of money to be made.
I think EL coverage would need to be only 50% of coverage with the rest dedicated to Irish players abroad.If I was going to launch something like this I would ask contributors for some fanzine type humour in their articles to go alongside interviews etc.

[ashbournebohs]

I'm not being negative at all - just realistic. Let's do a back-of-envelope business case on such a magazine.

Starting with the potential target audience. There are 11 Eircom League games every weekend - 6 Prem and 5 First. Between them, those games attract a total average crowd of about 15-20,000 depending on the time of season, whether better supported teams are home or away on any given week etc etc. But the active EL fan-base ascross an entire season is in the 15-20,000 range (i.e. assumes avge across year of 2,000+ at each Prem game, and 700+ at each First Division one. Not unreasonable assumptions).

That range covers both the most committed EL fans - the ones without whom a magazine just would not survive - and the secondary tier of occassional and very occassional fans - the sort who'd buy it very occassionally, just like their attendnace at games. Let's say the split is about 70-30 in favour of the most committed fans vs the occassional in that 15-20,000 average attendance range

So - to achieve sales of 5,000 per month/whatever time period for an EL magazine, you'd require 25-33% of your entire target audience to buy the magazine. That is a completely unrealistic starting point for any bsuiness case fora magazine. 5-10% purchae rate - yes (i.e. 1,500-2,000 copies). But not 5,000 copies, or 25-33% of totla audience.

Secodnly - if you take the assumption that such a magazine would be overly reliant upon hardcore EL fans - the 70% of the 15-20,000 assumed above, that only leaves you a maximum hardcore audience of 10,500-14,000. You simply weill not achieve sales of anywhere near 5,000 for a magazine amongst that target base - it just would not happen.

Obviously an EL magazine would have otehr readers apart form those who go to games - e.g. exiles, the odd person buying it randomly etc etc. But over the course of a year they would add very, very low hundreds to the buying volume so can almost be ignored.

The bottom line is that any business case hoping to sell 5,000 copies of an EL magazine would be based on pie in the sky, given the actual active interest levels in the league.

Your points dont seem as negative when backed up by facts but i am a firm believer in the glass is half full and all that.I dont have as good a head for figures as you so wont go too far into it.In principle a project like this would have to factor in the lowest based figures but there are situations whereby this isnt always the case.
European games bring in bigger crowds and also the floating fan that we are trying to attract and that would be the raison-de-etre of such a magazine.
We at bohs would get 4500 at a euro game against unknown or lower opposition we had 8000 at the rosenborg game.Cork and derry and drogheda would be similar so in the summer months the crowds or possible market could rise dramatically Friendlies too bring in the crowds and we had a full house against sunderland.I know its not guaranteed but there are crowds at various games and dont forget the cup final and setanta cup final.I also think you are underestimating the power of having a magazine on the shelves of easons.Quick question answer honestly how many eircom league fans would buy a magazine about the irish league if it was available here.Much more relative given the setanta cup and proposed AIL.We could probably sell a few hundred a month up the north purely to football fans
Ideally it would have to be backed by the FAI and its sponsors but i genuinely believe such a venture with say kevin doyle and dave mooney on the cover for example with a 25% international and 75% domestic content would thrive now

[Kildare Lad]

If it was also about the international team, sell it at international matchs and im sure at least a few of them 80,000 that go to croke park would buy it.

[GroundFootball]

Hi guys, I still look around here although i haven't commented in a while.
My company is currently putting together an Irish football magazine. Have been since last year but it hasn't gone away just been delayed. I have developed links with the FAI and Noel Mooney. (Who I must get back on to soon)
The big problem for starting a magazine of this nature are all the points highlighted elsewhere. A magazine cannot survive here on subscriptions and definately not on shop sales. Advertising is key but that's the problem. Invesrtment is needed at the start to drives sales and subscriptions to drive readership to drive advertising sales. The problem is the perceived market size and previous failures in the same area. It's difficult to convince investors that it'll work because other magazines have failed, I feel this is because their was too much "labour of love/pet project" nonsense and not enough business.

I do think their is a model that will allow the collaborative approach between all football fans on the island and drive subscriptions and then advertising sales to make this thing a reality. Work is currently being done on this.

The idea is to have a magazine of the fans, for the fans, by the fans.

If I can show you how it'll be done, are you guys interested in that?

[A face]

Hi guys, I still look around here although i haven't commented in a while.

Been meaning to get back to you for ages


My company is currently putting together an Irish football magazine. Have been since last year but it hasn't gone away just been delayed. I have developed links with the FAI and Noel Mooney. (Who I must get back on to soon)
The big problem for starting a magazine of this nature are all the points highlighted elsewhere. A magazine cannot survive here on subscriptions and definately not on shop sales. Advertising is key but that's the problem. Invesrtment is needed at the start to drives sales and subscriptions to drive readership to drive advertising sales. The problem is the perceived market size and previous failures in the same area. It's difficult to convince investors that it'll work because other magazines have failed, I feel this is because their was too much "labour of love/pet project" nonsense and not enough business.

Yeah, its definitely means getting four anchor sponsors every year, and if one of them was over three years you'd be flying. But thats what has to happen.

Marketing would be really important as well. You'd really have to target the audience in ways that will work. How i dont know.


I do think their is a model that will allow the collaborative approach between all football fans on the island and drive subscriptions and then advertising sales to make this thing a reality. Work is currently being done on this.

The idea is to have a magazine of the fans, for the fans, by the fans.

That sounds good alright


If I can show you how it'll be done, are you guys interested in that?

Yup, fire away (you are on about the whole island now yeah?

[dcfcsteve]

Hi guys, I still look around here although i haven't commented in a while.
My company is currently putting together an Irish football magazine. Have been since last year but it hasn't gone away just been delayed. I have developed links with the FAI and Noel Mooney. (Who I must get back on to soon)
The big problem for starting a magazine of this nature are all the points highlighted elsewhere. A magazine cannot survive here on subscriptions and definately not on shop sales. Advertising is key but that's the problem. Invesrtment is needed at the start to drives sales and subscriptions to drive readership to drive advertising sales. The problem is the perceived market size and previous failures in the same area. It's difficult to convince investors that it'll work because other magazines have failed, I feel this is because their was too much "labour of love/pet project" nonsense and not enough business.

I do think their is a model that will allow the collaborative approach between all football fans on the island and drive subscriptions and then advertising sales to make this thing a reality. Work is currently being done on this.

The idea is to have a magazine of the fans, for the fans, by the fans.

If I can show you how it'll be done, are you guys interested in that?

Go for it GF - i don't think you'll find anyone on here who wouldn't love to see a domestic football magazine.

In many ways I'd actually prefer t to include the IL as well.

[historynut]

EARLY & OTHER PUBLICATIONS.
It may be of interest to some , but recall on a visit to National Library in Kildare Street, a few years back, viewing copies of an Irish Soccer Newspaper of the 1920's, cant remember what coverage of EL of the day they covered but recall had a lot of content re Junior Leagues of the day.
Though you may debate the pros & cons and viabilllity of relaunching of a league publicatioin may I bring to your attention a guy down in Waterford publishes a monthly magazine on the local Junior League with articles also on Wfc. Always try and pick up a copy when passing through in summer. There was also a Munster Soccer Magazine though I think short lived a few years back.
Now please dont jump on my back re following but true - Whenever the last Eircom League publication was done always looked to pick up a copy whenever in Dublin, on not seeing any for a while called in the then HQ in Merron Sq, young secretary took name and adress and duly recieved for a short while copies of publications before its demise for no charge.
On seperate note does the FAI still print an annual Handbook ?

[A face]

Spotter Magazine was the most professional magazine i have ever seen in Ireland (and i include international programmes in there too). It was brilliant, but that needed advertsiing as well and stopped as a result.

[BohDiddley]

The climate should be much more favourable now. eL has been gradually getting more coverage generally (outside of Mary Hannigan's planet) and there is a groundswell that Irish football is on the up.
The regular highlights package from RTE will be a huge bonus. If they are serious about growing the game, FAI and clubs should co-operate to promote the mag with pitchside ads etc. That'll help kickstart an audience.

[GroundFootball]

It seems there's some interest so I'll set up a site shortly to explain the idea how it's really for the fans and how it'll work. When it's done i'll post the link here.
It is a commercial enterprise (because if it's not it'll die) and I'm sure foot.ie wouldn't appreciate me running a business from their forum.

I'll post a link to it when it's up if you want me to. What do you think guys?

[John83]

It seems there's some interest so I'll set up a site shortly to explain the idea how it's really for the fans and how it'll work. When it's done i'll post the link here.
It is a commercial enterprise (because if it's not it'll die) and I'm sure foot.ie wouldn't appreciate me running a business from their forum.

I'll post a link to it when it's up if you want me to. What do you think guys?
By all means post a link. If you want to advertise on here (and it would probably be advisable, at least at the beginning), I'd contact Dahamsta. He may be amenable given the nature of the project.

[A face]

By all means post a link. If you want to advertise on here (and it would probably be advisable, at least at the beginning), I'd contact Dahamsta. He may be amenable given the nature of the project.

I wont speak for him but it might be worth suggesting that the magazine be called foot.ie or that foot.ie help pioneer the magazine in some way, exactly how i dont know but its a ready made platform that is teaming with ideas.

[SligoBrewer]

GroundFootball, would it be along the lines of When Saturday Comes?

[onceahoop]

The climate should be much more favourable now. eL has been gradually getting more coverage generally (outside of Mary Hannigan's planet) and there is a groundswell that Irish football is on the up.
The regular highlights package from RTE will be a huge bonus. If they are serious about growing the game, FAI and clubs should co-operate to promote the mag with pitchside ads etc. That'll help kickstart an audience.

Good points there BD. I also think that as long as the Setanta Cup is going that it would benefit from the inclusion of the IL.

[Sonic]

Just dont call it "eircomLIVE"... I can't believe the new highlights show might be called that... Also, yes but I think it has been tried before but not enough people bought it.

Yeah but i thinbk that now there is largely more interest in the country of the league then there was we'll say even 5 years ago!