Minutes silence tonight

[boovidge]

(And the brand of English spoken by the FAI announcer is only a tentative relation to the one spoken by everyone else anyway...)

I'm suprised he didnt mention eircom when annoncing the silence :rolleyes:

[Sheridan]

Didn't see the game and don't have any opinion on the matter, but anyone who's ever followed football (live or otherwise) knows and would recognise the protocol for a minutes' silence.

[Bondvillain]

Didn't see the game and don't have any opinion on the matter, but anyone who's ever followed football (live or otherwise) knows and would recognise the protocol for a minutes' silence.

Aye. I agree, they would. And the vast majority pretty much did, when they realised what was happening. A quick word over the tannoy in Portuguese before the silence may have made a difference to those who were dancing with their backs to the pitch, in fairness.

[HolylandsMan]

Did a few people try to get "applause" going instead of the silence at the start?

Personally I think the silence is more respectful than the applause although given the lowlife mentality of some people in the world, its probably better to have applause in some situations which they can't ruin.

[RogerMilla]

. You're writing on an internet forum about football. .

aye , and so are you.

[John83]

aye , and so are you.
The difference is, I'm not yapping on about perspective to someone who is understandably not terribly moved by two dozen deaths fifty years ago when that many punters will have died in road accidents since November.

If people want to have a minutes silence, let them. If they don't care, but stay quiet at the time anyway, who is he to whine about their 'perspective'.

[Nipper]

The Brazilians aren't to blame, once they realised what was going on they shut up.

The ref blowing up after ten seconds was the real culprit. It's a MINUTE'S silence.

Plus, obviously, an announcement in Portugese would have helped considerably.

[greendeiseboy]

i think the reason he might have cut it short was due to the fact that the kick off was already running almost 10 minutes late.......but he should still have observed the full minute

[jmurphyc]

Did anyone hear someone talking on a megaphone during it? I thought I heard that.

[4tothefloor]

Being brutally honest I didn't see the need for a minutes silence either. Looking at the general age profile of the people at the game, I doubt if many gave a toss about the busby babes. I certainly don't. The story doesn't move me, I do not relate to it and I don't think it has anything to do with Irish football. And I do not consider Liam Whelan a 'legend' of Irish soccer either. I don't know about you lot, but 4 caps does not herald legend status for me. His death was a tragedy yes, but Munich is a Manchester United tragedy, not an Irish one. A few Irish and 2G fans died at Hillsborough. Are we going to have a minutes silence for them every year now as well, seeing that it was a far greater tragedy? Irishman died at Heysel as well, will we honour that too?

I respected the minutes silence on Wednesday, but I didn't necessarily agree with it. I thought it was hollow and not really necessary. A bit like overly religious parents dragging their teenage children to mass, when the latter have absolutely no interest at all and just go through the motions.....

[livehead1]

Who said I didn't respect it? In fact I said in my first comment that I wouldn't dream of breaking a minutes silence, I just said I don't really give a toss about people I don't know who died 50 years ago, sorry but I don't, and the chest thumpers came out in force again with their usual hilarious putdowns

One assumes you share similar sentiments with those who lost their lives in the two world wars

[bellavistaman]

Millions of people are dying of starvation as you sit down to your lunch. Hundreds of millions of people right now have no access to clean water, feck-all to modern medicine, next to none to education. Some (pretty smart) people think the ice caps are melting and we're in for massive flooding and extremely violent weather which will lead to massive displacement of populations, famine and drought in my lifetime. You're writing on an internet forum about football. Your 'perspective' is for idiots.

I really agree with 9/10 of your posts John83, but i have never ever heard so much sh!te in my life, i mean your on a football forum, meaning we all llove soccer, rough guess at least 1/2 of the people on this forum support united, so this is close to every football fans heart. They were the top notch of everything we stand for and support, great footballers, we all feel slightly symphatetic to the people who have no water and what not, but to say our "perspective is for idiots" is some what a idiotic comment in itself. We are entitled to our own opinon, im no john o shea(not the footballer) or adi roche, but i do care about people starving in the world(very little i do admit, because i do nothing about it) but i do feel more moved about seeing such a legend like bobby charlton, crying on national television about his friends, great players who all died together, probalbly the songle most biggerst football tragedy ever. and as a football fan i do acknowledge it as the tragedy it really is.

[jebus]

One assumes you share similar sentiments with those who lost their lives in the two world wars

Are you really comparing people who fought and died in the wars to footballers who got on the wrong plane? You realise that Buddy Holly and his band's anniversary was February 2nd as well, given that quite a lot of people in attendence at Croke probably listen to rock music should we not have had a moment's silence for Buddy, the Big Bopper and the rest?

[Wolfie]

Theres a difference between not wanting to make a tribute to someone and respecting others wishes to have a dignified rememberance

That's THE point.

If you're indifferent to such a tribute - have the manners and dignity to keep your mouth shut and respect those who wish to observe it.

I find some of the comments on here quite disingenuous and uncharitable.

[Superhoops]

Surely this whole debate is about showing respect in the football community for those who lost their lives while pursuing careers in the best game in the world. I am no lover of ManU but I don't think it is too much to ask to respect a one minute silence.

However, what I do get miffed about is that while the Munich crash was disastrous, an even greater football disaster occurred on 8 April 1993 when the entire Zambian national team was killed in an air crash on their way to a WCF against Senegal. I don't remember ever hearing any tributes or calls for moments of respect for this.

[Scram]

How about an indefinite silence for this thread. Corporate giants like Man U cannot dictate morals to the masses. Anyone buying into this 50 year anniversary is a moron.

[Stuttgart88]

Remind me, why exactly was Tuff Paddy banned from this site?

[Ireland4ever]

Are you really comparing people who fought and died in the wars to footballers who got on the wrong plane? You realise that Buddy Holly and his band's anniversary was February 2nd as well, given that quite a lot of people in attendence at Croke probably listening to rock music should we not have had a moment's silence for Buddy, the Big Bopper and the rest?

It was footballers (+reporters) who died on that flight - it was a football match on wednesday where the minutes silence was observed
An Irish international died on that flight - Only right that he be remembered by current players and fans on the night of an irish international match .
It was exactly 50 years to the date that the players perished on the runway in munich
Your points and opinions aren'y wanted on this subject so just give it a rest.

[Kingdom]

probalbly the songle most biggerst football tragedy ever. and as a football fan i do acknowledge it as the tragedy it really is.

This is where perspective comes into it.

Did you hear the one about the Zambian team top of their qualifying group for USA 94 dying when their plane crashed into the sea because the Zambian FA couldn't afford a commercial airliner so packed them off into a military plane instead.
To me that's more tragic than the Munich disaster.
Hillsborough and the finger-pointing that went on afterwards was probably a bigger disaster than what went with United.
Perspective is what its all about.

[Ireland4ever]

This is where perspective comes into it.

Did you hear the one about the Zambian team top of their qualifying group for USA 94 dying when their plane crashed into the sea because the Zambian FA couldn't afford a commercial airliner so packed them off into a military plane instead.
To me that's more tragic than the Munich disaster.
Hillsborough and the finger-pointing that went on afterwards was probably a bigger disaster than what went with United.
Perspective is what its all about.

This is ridiculous, so if someone comes up with a 'perceivably bigger' tragedy' then all other ones are not counted or should not be rembered. All of the above are tradgic in their own right. Just on this night the FAI decided to remember one of their own men who died 50 years ago when returning home from a european cup 1/4 final. Why people find this hard to fathom is beyond me.

[Hibernian]

shut this down

Honestly Jesus it was a minute silence

1 *ucking minute of silence you swear you all were put into a torture chamber.

Can we not just move on from this?

Some guy said 4 caps makes him no legend (Whelan) wtf is he talking about.

How the hell was he going to win more then 4 caps if he was dead?

As I said shut this down, stupid.

[lopez]

I really agree with 9/10 of your posts John83, but i have never ever heard so much sh!te in my life... rough guess at least 1/2 of the people on this forum support united, so this is close to every football fans heart.I'd suggest it's you talking sh*te. Half this site Man U supporters. :rolleyes:

I can see a minutes silence over the death of Whelan. The event occured in a foreign country. As someone pointed out, where's the minutes silence for the Torino, Zambia and the black Dutch players killed in Surinam, especially as the last two, there were no survivors.

What is ironic is that when the crash occured, I doubt there were many Man U fans in this country. I certainly doubt if anyone ever travelled there for the weekend. And the only interest in the club was if Irish players - like Whelan or Carey - were playing there. The only Irish people who turned up at Old Trafford were those that had emigrated to the city, like my father who was living in Manchester at the time.

I agree that those with reservations over this. I'd be more happy with a minute's silence for Irish servicemen who died in both world wars fighting for the British than this, and I'm far from someone that is seen wearing a poppy. The FAI should have taken a stronger line. It's the Diana funeral all over again.

[Kingdom]

This is ridiculous, so if someone comes up with a 'perceivably bigger' tragedy' then all other ones are not counted or should not be rembered. All of the above are tradgic in their own right. Just on this night the FAI decided to remember one of their own men who died 50 years ago when returning home from a european cup 1/4 final. Why people find this hard to fathom is beyond me.

Don't be calling me ridiculous, I agree it was a tragedy, and a minutes silence was appropriate due to Liam Whelan's passing, but to define it as the single biggest football tragedy ever is just boll*cks.

[livehead1]

Remind me, why exactly was Tuff Paddy banned from this site?

Why was he?

[jebus]

Your points and opinions aren'y wanted on this subject so just give it a rest.

Nice argument there Hitler. Honestly someone disagrees with you and suddenly you all get uppity. As I've said, I stood in silence for the 36 seconds, wouldn't dream of breaking it, but that doesn't mean I care about the Busby Babes. Furthermore not one of you has given a good explaination as to why I should care about the Busby Babes

[Ireland4ever]

Don't be calling me ridiculous, I agree it was a tragedy, and a minutes silence was appropriate due to Liam Whelan's passing, but to define it as the single biggest football tragedy ever is just boll*cks.

At what point did i describe it as the single biggest tragedy? I pointed out that the FAI decided to remember one of our players who was cut down in a tradgic circumstance - while on footballing duty. To suggest i said otherwise is ridiculous

[Ireland4ever]

Nice argument there Hitler. Honestly someone disagrees with you and suddenly you all get uppity. As I've said, I stood in silence for the 36 seconds, wouldn't dream of breaking it, but that doesn't mean I care about the Busby Babes. Furthermore not one of you has given a good explaination as to why I should care about the Busby Babes

As ive said already what you should care about is one of our own dying while returning from a football match. Your opinions on the rest of the babes i am indifferent to. Just cant understand why a minutes silence for Liam 'Billy' Whelan would upset you.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Surely this whole debate is about showing respect in the football community for those who lost their lives while pursuing careers in the best game in the world. I am no lover of ManU but I don't think it is too much to ask to respect a one minute silence.

However, what I do get miffed about is that while the Munich crash was disastrous, an even greater football disaster occurred on 8 April 1993 when the entire Zambian national team was killed in an air crash on their way to a WCF against Senegal. I don't remember ever hearing any tributes or calls for moments of respect for this.

Pretty certain there was a minutes silence at Lansdowne before the Denmark game later that month, correct me if I'm wrong.

Munich has been milked to high heaven by Man U and still is to this day in what I consider a very distasteful way especially considering the clubs attitutde towards the survivors and the families of the dead in the aftermath.

I'd never break a minute's silence but had this been an Irish player who died in a tragic car accident 50 years back but hadn't played for Man U I doubt a minutes silence would have been even considered.

[Armando]

This thread is truly pathetic.

Are people actually arguing over the minutes silence and then some saying it was not merited because X, Y or Z was more
tragic?

and I distinctly remember a minutes silence at lansdowne for the Zambians

The mind boggles:confused:

[jmurphyc]

Now I'm not saying I disagree with the minute silence but I remember seeing this in the Irish Times last Saturday:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00427/manutd682_427351a.jpg

I pointed out the AIG bit to friends and they didn't seem to care, but I think it's disgusting that (even though it's their sponsor) Man Utd had AIG up on the board. If that was meant to be a commemoration, then there should be no room for advertising on it.

[jebus]

As ive said already what you should care about is one of our own dying while returning from a football match. Your opinions on the rest of the babes i am indifferent to. Just cant understand why a minutes silence for Liam 'Billy' Whelan would upset you.

It doesn't upset me, I know it's a foreign concept around here but could you go back and actually read through all of my posts to see how my part in this thread has advanced? Also could you point me to the place where I said it does upset me? I said I don't care about 'one of my own' dying 50 years ago with the Busby Babes in response to someone saying people would wreck the minute's silence because of Whelan's Man Utd connection, whereas I maintained that the worst you'll get is people like me who just don't care, but would obviously respect the silence, much like I don't care about the Irishman who died in a car accident in Donegal in 1972, much like I don't care about the Irish woman who drowned in a boating accident in 1984, and any of you who aren't related to the Whelan family, or who never met the man who say that Liam Whelan's death 50 years ago affects you are liars to be honest, and worse than that some of you are trying to tag on some fake emotion of your own to make yourself seem more Irish at the expense of that man's memory

[Wolfie]

Nationality is not relevant to this tragedy.

There should be no issue with a minutes silence out of common humanity.

[jmurphyc]

Nationality is always relevant, whether we want it to be or not. Whenever there's a disaster one of the first things you hear on the news is "X Irish people died".

[Superhoops]

Pretty certain there was a minutes silence at Lansdowne before the Denmark game later that month, correct me if I'm wrong.


You are right, that game was played about 3 weeks after the air crash and there was indeed a minute's silence before that game and before several games there have been a minute silence for some recent tragic event or for someone prominent connected with football who recently passed away.

I was referring more to the likes of 5th, 10th, 15th, 25th, 40th, 50th anniversary of such events which we seem to have had for the Munich air crash. For example, I seem to remember 1st, 5th, 10th and 15th anniversaries for Hillsborough and no doubt there will 20th anniversary events in April 2009. I may be wrong but I don't ever remember say a 10th anniversary of the Zambian disaster and we played in Dublin in April 2003.

[galwayhoop]

Nationality is not relevant to this tragedy.

There should be no issue with a minutes silence out of common humanity.


fair enough but the Tragedy was a half a century ago!!!

I honestly think the whole minute silence thing has lost resonance as more often than not when you go to a game nowadays there is a minutes silence for something or other.

Yes it was a tragedy (at the time) but that was a couple of generations ago. Perhaps the anniversary should have been marked by a short film or something but a minutes silence is to reflect and perhaps think of the grieving families, very few, if any, of the people in the ground would have felt enough of either to merit a minutes silence imo (I'm obviously excluding the clearly grief stricken man in his 20s or early 30s with MUFC scarf and head bowed in a clear state of remorse for the victims, survivors and families associated with his club).

[OneRedArmy]

Dont think it will be at Wembley due to that fact that the ground will be full of southerners (Chelsea/Millwall/West Ham spring to mind) and I am worried that the anti-PL bridage here could do the same.
Only booing that I heard was from the PL brigade when Anderson came on....which reminds me of time the time an Irish voice behind me urged Cristiano Ronaldo to break an Irish players leg in the friendly against Portugal.

[ruben_sosa]

I pointed out that the FAI decided to remember one of our players who was cut down in a tradgic circumstance - while on footballing duty.
cut down while on footballing duty :D you'd swear he was storming the beaches of Normandy. Yeah footballers are such brave, selfless folk.

[Wolfie]

Nationality is always relevant, whether we want it to be or not. Whenever there's a disaster one of the first things you hear on the news is "X Irish people died".

I take you point jmurphy - but to take it to its logical conclusion, are you suggesting our compassion / interest in relation to Munich is inversely proportional to how many of their own Nationality died?

[Kingdom]

At what point did i describe it as the single biggest tragedy? I pointed out that the FAI decided to remember one of our players who was cut down in a tradgic circumstance - while on footballing duty. To suggest i said otherwise is ridiculous

Maybe you should look at what you're quoting. I was quoting Bellavistaman who said it was probably the biggest footballing tragedies.

[jmurphyc]

I take you point jmurphy - but to take it to its logical conclusion, are you suggesting our compassion / interest in relation to Munich is inversely proportional to how many of their own Nationality died?

Aside from the media talking about the number of Irish deaths I think that when most people hear about a tragic event they think it's sad for a few seconds/minutes and then go back to what they were doing until it is mentioned in the media again but otherwise never really think about it ever again. Perhaps that's just my cynical view but that's how I would think the majority of people - when they're honest with themselves - feel.

[lopez]

It doesn't upset me, I know it's a foreign concept around here but could you go back and actually read through all of my posts to see how my part in this thread has advanced? Also could you point me to the place where I said it does upset me? I said I don't care about 'one of my own' dying 50 years ago with the Busby Babes in response to someone saying people would wreck the minute's silence because of Whelan's Man Utd connection, whereas I maintained that the worst you'll get is people like me who just don't care, but would obviously respect the silence, much like I don't care about the Irishman who died in a car accident in Donegal in 1972, much like I don't care about the Irish woman who drowned in a boating accident in 1984, and any of you who aren't related to the Whelan family, or who never met the man who say that Liam Whelan's death 50 years ago affects you are liars to be honest, and worse than that some of you are trying to tag on some fake emotion of your own to make yourself seem more Irish at the expense of that man's memoryI sympathise with you there. My own concern over Whelan was how good Ireland would have been with him in later years. Anything else would be faux tears.

My dad always talked about Munich -as stated he worked in Manchester when it happened - and in particular Whelan although he didn't know too much about him. He told me for years that he was going to leave football that summer to become a priest, something that was indeed reported at the time but was effectively baseless.

But what about other Irish players taken before their time like Austin Hayes. Not quite as good but still tragic, dying of cancer at 28. Are we to have a commemoration for him every ten years? And yes we do have minutes silences for tragedies...that is it one minute and they are never mentioned again. The reason this was done was that so many of the FAI are secret Premiership barstoolers, and of course there's our own prime minister. As pointed out the club were hardly good to the survivors who had their careers ended, and the fact that they are sticking their sponsor on a memorial, shows the crassness of the whole event.

[OneRedArmy]

The reason this was done was that so many of the FAI are secret Premiership barstoolers, and of course there's our own prime minister.Nail. Head. On.

[Ireland4ever]

Maybe you should look at what you're quoting. I was quoting Bellavistaman who said it was probably the biggest footballing tragedies.

If you were bothered to look back you'll find out it was in fact you that quoted me and then commented on me saying it being the biggest tragedies, get your facts straight.

[Ireland4ever]

I sympathise with you there. My own concern over Whelan was how good Ireland would have been with him in later years. Anything else would be faux tears.

My dad always talked about Munich -as stated he worked in Manchester when it happened - and in particular Whelan although he didn't know too much about him. He told me for years that he was going to leave football that summer to become a priest, something that was indeed reported at the time but was effectively baseless.

But what about other Irish players taken before their time like Austin Hayes. Not quite as good but still tragic, dying of cancer at 28. Are we to have a commemoration for him every ten years? And yes we do have minutes silences for tragedies...that is it one minute and they are never mentioned again. The reason this was done was that so many of the FAI are secret Premiership barstoolers, and of course there's our own prime minister. As pointed out the club were hardly good to the survivors who had their careers ended, and the fact that they are sticking their sponsor on a memorial, shows the crassness of the whole event.

Prime minister, since when did we have one of these?

[John83]

Prime minister, since when did we have one of these?
A prime minister is the most senior minister of cabinet in the executive branch of government in a parliamentary system. Yes, we have one, whatever we chose to call the post.

[Kingdom]

If you were bothered to look back you'll find out it was in fact you that quoted me and then commented on me saying it being the biggest tragedies, get your facts straight.

I really don't want to get into a game of tit-for-tat, but I didn't refer to you at all, as I said already I was taking issue with Bellavistaman's take on the tragedy. So cop on and move on. :mad:

[Ireland4ever]

A prime minister is the most senior minister of cabinet in the executive branch of government in a parliamentary system. Yes, we have one, whatever we chose to call the post.

Wikipedia called, they said they want there quote back! :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister

[John83]

Wikipedia called, they said they want there quote back! :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister
Yes, I wanted to confirm my understanding of the term and was too lazy to put it in my own words. You, on the other hand, were wrong. To keep you happy, I'll reference my next quote. How about this one?

"
There refers to a specific location or introduces a clause or sentenceMy blue car is over there.There is no faster car than that one.
Their is a possessive pronoun, meaning "belonging to them"Their car broke down, so they had to call a technician." [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language/FAQs#There.2C_their_or_they.27re.3F

[ifk101]

No worries Ireland4ever, I'll translate this for you.


Yes, I wanted to confirm my understanding of the term and was too lazy to put it in my own words.

Yes it's quoted from Wikipedia.


You, on the other hand, were wrong.

But he still thinks he is a smart boy.


To keep you happy, I'll reference my next quote. How about this one?

Just to be a pedant and put you in your place he'll demonstrate how smart he is.


"
There refers to a specific location or introduces a clause or sentenceMy blue car is over there.There is no faster car than that one.
Their is a possessive pronoun, meaning "belonging to them"Their car broke down, so they had to call a technician." [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language/FAQs#There.2C_their_or_they.27re.3F

That another wikipedia quote. Obviously the boy can't think for himself.

[lopez]

Prime minister, since when did we have one of these?LOL:D. Just makes me laugh how many Irish people's grasp of their OWN language stretches no further than words like 'Taoiseach', 'Garda' and 'Eire', the sort of words that are used in other languages.

http://www.laopiniondemalaga.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=3153_2_158589__Malaga-Capos-cocaina-irlandeses-ajustan-cuentas-Estepona

http://innisfree1916.wordpress.com/2007/09/27/bertie-ahern-en-apuros/

Here's one that isn't used so much in Spanish newspapers covering Irish affairs: Amadam. :rolleyes: