View Full Version : Cork players on strike.
NeilMcD
24/01/2008, 10:41 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0123/cork.html
What do people think of this.
Rocky77
24/01/2008, 11:26 PM
I'm not much of a socialist so I don't have much sympathy for them. There were two votes at county board level regarding the selector situation and both were overwhelmingly passed.
It's hard not to feel bad for Teddy Holland in all of this. He seemed the best bet to replace Morgan anyway and it looks like they've ruined his intercounty coaching career before it's started.
Risteard
25/01/2008, 12:29 AM
Hmmmm.
Not that interested but I can see sympathy on both sides, well more the management than the boards but definitely the players.
The politicians on the board are some (actually ONE) of the worst characters you could come across.
Amateurs, on a representative side, going oin strike because they don't like the people who've been asked to select them?
GAA? meh couldnt give a flying ****:D
Risteard
25/01/2008, 1:48 AM
Amateurs, on a representative side, going oin strike because they don't like the people who've been asked to select them?
It's more about the process by which the people were appointed.
I'm inclined to agree with dunny.
Kingdom
25/01/2008, 8:14 AM
The players are going down a dangerous path, when the strike is stacked alongside the whole grant fiasco.
The players are disrepecting the one section of the GAA that are more important than them - the clubs.
It was the clubs who voted on this....and voted unamimously if I remember correctly. So in a way the players are taking a stance against the very people who keep the GAA alive.
Its hard to feel sympathy for them, in fact I'd feel sorry for this dutch guy. He is by all accounts a good manager but its hard to see his intercounty career ever taking off now. I don't believe either that its just about the managers picking the selectors, definitely with the footballers. I think they knew Morgan was going to be dumped.
The funny thing is Morgan cost them the All-Ireland final as far as I'm concerned.
He changed a winning team for the Final by bringing an obviously unfit Masters back, and dropped Daniel Goulding I think?
Superhoops
25/01/2008, 8:28 PM
The players are going down a dangerous path, when the strike is stacked alongside the whole grant fiasco.
The players are disrepecting the one section of the GAA that are more important than them - the clubs.
It was the clubs who voted on this....and voted unamimously if I remember correctly. So in a way the players are taking a stance against the very people who keep the GAA alive......
This is the most important aspect of this whole saga. If players ever become bigger than the clubs, then the GAA is ruined.
If these guys don't want to play for Cork under a democratically constituted and mandated system then let them fu*k off with themselves.
What is it with guys from Cork? RMK?, SI?
rambler14
25/01/2008, 8:41 PM
I'm sick of it. I can't understand why they don't just send out a team of intermediate players. Imokilly would do.
sullanefc
27/01/2008, 2:29 AM
The players are disrepecting the one section of the GAA that are more important than them - the clubs.
It was the clubs who voted on this....and voted unamimously if I remember correctly. So in a way the players are taking a stance against the very people who keep the GAA alive.
Its hard to feel sympathy for them, in fact I'd feel sorry for this dutch guy. He is by all accounts a good manager but its hard to see his intercounty career ever taking off now.
I don't really give a fig either way, but I'm a little bit surprised by some of the posts above.
For the record I'm with the players on this.
My 2 cents:
1. You say the GAA would be nothing without the clubs?? Well how would it get on without players?? Not well I'd imagine. No other self repspecting Cork footballer will cross the picket line and pull on the red jersey during this strike. So until it is resolved, no Cork teams this year.
2. Having the county board select the selectors is flawed management. How would any of you feel if the board of your football(soccer) club were selecting the managers backroom team or even the team itself? It wouldn't work.
3. The appointment of this Holland chap seems to me like a puppet manager who is not going to rock the boat and will go along with whatever selectors the board lump him with.
4. A lot of people down here think that the vote by the clubs on this issue was dubious to begin with.
5. GAA is stupid.
Superhoops
27/01/2008, 9:49 AM
I don't really give a fig either way, but I'm a little bit surprised by some of the posts above.
For the record I'm with the players on this.
My 2 cents:
1. You say the GAA would be nothing without the clubs?? Well how would it get on without players?? Not well I'd imagine. No other self repspecting Cork footballer will cross the picket line and pull on the red jersey during this strike. So until it is resolved, no Cork teams this year.
2. Having the county board select the selectors is flawed management. How would any of you feel if the board of your football(soccer) club were selecting the managers backroom team or even the team itself? It wouldn't work.
3. The appointment of this Holland chap seems to me like a puppet manager who is not going to rock the boat and will go along with whatever selectors the board lump him with.
4. A lot of people down here think that the vote by the clubs on this issue was dubious to begin with.
5. GAA is stupid.
Rebels by name and nature and for the sake of it :)
rambler14
27/01/2008, 10:51 AM
Adolf Murphy or Frank Hitler whatever ya wanna call him will never give up his dictatorship of the Cork County Board so I don't see the situation being resolved anytime soon.
NeilMcD
27/01/2008, 11:32 AM
I don't really give a fig either way, but I'm a little bit surprised by some of the posts above.
For the record I'm with the players on this.
My 2 cents:
1. You say the GAA would be nothing without the clubs?? Well how would it get on without players?? Not well I'd imagine. No other self repspecting Cork footballer will cross the picket line and pull on the red jersey during this strike. So until it is resolved, no Cork teams this year.
2. Having the county board select the selectors is flawed management. How would any of you feel if the board of your football(soccer) club were selecting the managers backroom team or even the team itself? It wouldn't work.
3. The appointment of this Holland chap seems to me like a puppet manager who is not going to rock the boat and will go along with whatever selectors the board lump him with.
4. A lot of people down here think that the vote by the clubs on this issue was dubious to begin with.
5. GAA is stupid.
Agree with the post above. Not sure why people are posting on a thread with points like I dont give a shi t about GAA etc etc.
The players are dead right on this.
sullanefc
27/01/2008, 12:30 PM
Rebels by name and nature and for the sake of it :)
For the sake of it??? Are you serious?? You think the players are doing it for the craic?? Just to be troublesom.
The players are dead right on this.
I agree.
deecay
27/01/2008, 3:03 PM
GAA? meh couldnt give a flying ****:D
Great to see theres smart people still about
Superhoops
27/01/2008, 3:36 PM
For the sake of it??? Are you serious?? You think the players are doing it for the craic?? Just to be troublesom. ....
I don't profess to know all the details of this but I guess that under the constitution of the Cork County board, democratically elected by the clubs at their annual county convention, the selectors for the county teams are elected/nominated by the Board.
If that is the case, players who make themselves available for selection do so knowing that is the set-up. If they don't like it, then they have the choice of not making themselves available at all or playing on but looking at changing the system through their own clubs and the constitution of the County Board.
Similarly, if someone puts themselves up for selection as the team manager, they do so knowing their selectors are elected/nominated by the County Board. If they don't want to work under that system, then similar to the players they have the choice of not putting themselves forward in the first place or taking on the job and looking at changing the system through their own clubs and the constitution of the County Board. I assume Teddy Holland took on the job knowing the conditions.
If the players don't want to play for Teddy Holland or any other manager, then they are under no contractual obligation to do so and should just clear off.
I am sure I read somewhere that football squad, speaking through a spokesman insisted that they would not line out for the county until Holland resigned because they believe he was wrongly appointed while the squad was still on strike. Who the fu*k do they think they are?
Interestingly enough although they were on strike, they still made themselves available for the trip to South America, an event I assume was organised and paid for by the same County Board they are striking against. Sheer hypocrisy :(.
rambler14
27/01/2008, 3:38 PM
Teddy Holland=Frank Murphy's whipping boy
I don't profess to know all the details of this but I guess that under the constitution of the Cork County board, democratically elected by the clubs at their annual county convention, the selectors for the county teams are elected/nominated by the Board.
If that is the case, players who make themselves available for selection do so knowing that is the set-up. If they don't like it, then they have the choice of not making themselves available at all or playing on but looking at changing the system through their own clubs and the constitution of the County Board.
Similarly, if someone puts themselves up for selection as the team manager, they do so knowing their selectors are elected/nominated by the County Board. If they don't want to work under that system, then similar to the players they have the choice of not putting themselves forward in the first place or taking on the job and looking at changing the system through their own clubs and the constitution of the County Board. I assume Teddy Holland took on the job knowing the conditions.
If the players don't want to play for Teddy Holland or any other manager, then they are under no contractual obligation to do so and should just clear off.
I am sure I read somewhere that football squad, speaking through a spokesman insisted that they would not line out for the county until Holland resigned because they believe he was wrongly appointed while the squad was still on strike. Who the fu*k do they think they are?
Interestingly enough although they were on strike, they still made themselves available for the trip to South America, an event I assume was organised and paid for by the same County Board they are striking against. Sheer hypocrisy :(.
Firstly the 'vote' to change the rule and remove the power of managers was brought at a meeting when the clubs werent made aware of it beforehand, so only the delegates had to vote on it in front of the quite intimidating board. The whole thing has stunk from the start and many think it was simply a way to get rid of the football manager.
Its a bad system and will only be detrimental to the players and team. The players have a right to express their opinions on this, its them and their county it will affect.
Before Holland was appointed, the players asked that no one take the job while the dispute was ongoing as they didnt want to make the issue personal. Holland 'crossed the picket' and therefore the players reacted as such.
These players want to play for their county, but the county board down here care more about having 'the power' than being successful.
The players have said that they will put the strike on hold and line out if the county board agrees to revisit this issue when the season ends, sending the clubs information and voting on the issue again. The county board have refused.
I would be shocked if any player in Cork would play while this is happening.
There was a great interview from Sean Og yesterday, saying what a lot of people down here think. Comparing the County board to the politiboro and calling for the resignation of Frank the dictator Murphy.
If things were bad before the **** is really going to hit the fan now.
Superhoops
27/01/2008, 4:22 PM
Firstly the 'vote' to change the rule and remove the power of managers was brought at a meeting when the clubs werent made aware of it beforehand, so only the delegates had to vote on it in front of the quite intimidating board. The whole thing has stunk from the start and many think it was simply a way to get rid of the football manager.
I think you are 'spinning' this by not telling the whole story.
In October the clubs voted to remove the right of team managers to pick their own selectors. 4 weeks later the hurlers and football issued their first statement expressing their dissatisfaction. Gerald McCarthy asked for the clubs to be given the chance to vote again. The players wrote to every club outlining their case and asking for support to change the system that had been voted for in October. A week later, on 20 November, 112 clubs delegates voted again by a majority of over 2 to 1 to retain the system they had voted for in October.
If the players wrote to each club I can't see how you can say they weren't aware of it. Over 100 delegates voted, more than voted the first time round. By any measure, the outcome of the vote not to change the original decision was pretty decisive.
....Before Holland was appointed, the players asked that no one take the job while the dispute was ongoing as they didnt want to make the issue personal. Holland 'crossed the picket' and therefore the players reacted as such.
They asked and the County Board ignored them because the clubs made the same decision twice.
These players want to play for their county... Then they should get on and play.
The players have said that they will put the strike on hold and line out if the county board agrees to revisit this issue when the season ends, sending the clubs information and voting on the issue again. The county board have refused.
Haven't the County Board already revisited the issue and haven't the clubs had the information from the players?
All sounds like the players saying we will not let this go away until we get our own way and even though the clubs voted against it, fu*k them, we are bigger then the clubs and know better. Arrogance of the highest order, but what else would you expect.
Risteard
07/02/2008, 12:26 AM
BreakingNews.ie (http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mheyqlqlgbql/)- Players fail to accept proposals.
Players met alone in town tonight and rejected what had been proposed last night.
. . . . . . .. . . . . While this document was said to have offered both sides a better deal, it still recommended that Cork Senior football manager Teddy Holland continue in his post. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
You'd think he'd have stepped down by now.
What kind of satisfaction would he get out of the job at this stage?
. . . . . . . . .Despite the efforts by former Player Welfare Manager Pauric Duffy and the LRC Chief, relations between the County Board and the Players are said to have now reach an all-time low, as this dispute worsens. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
It's a pretty clear-cut stalemate.
Holland goes or he doesn't.
Ah well, might throw a hundred or so on to the gates at the Cross.
Its a joke that they havent managed to reach some sort of compromise on this issue.
I say leave them be now, give Meath the game and so on. Cork will be relegated which should mean that only 1 other team will get relegated
Lionel Ritchie
07/02/2008, 8:15 AM
I'd go further and say Cork should advertise for 15 blokes (it is 15 who play gah isn't it?) who'll play for them to fulfil the fixtures.
In the event they can't find 15 full-blooded Corkonians who'll recognise this is a petty squabble between a bunch of officials looking to flex their muscles and players seeking to exert probably undue influence on who should pick and manage them -then they should go outside the county and find a squad.
My grandad on my mams side was from Cork so I should qualify. I don't know a whole lot about either code but I imagine I'll pick it up pretty quickly as I go.
I'd cross any picket, even an imaginary one, for the type of bucks lads playing to those kind of crowds must be on. :)
TBH not following this issue much but it is laughable that players would decide who the manager is.
Can't hurt LOI attendances at the cross so no harm if continues.
Superhoops
07/02/2008, 5:44 PM
Its a joke that they havent managed to reach some sort of compromise on this issue.
I say leave them be now, give Meath the game and so on. Cork will be relegated which should mean that only 1 other team will get relegated
If this was one of the 'lesser' GAA counties, they would have been out of the league by now.
gilberto_eire
08/02/2008, 12:55 AM
TBH not following this issue much but it is laughable that players would decide who the manager is.
Can't hurt LOI attendances at the cross so no harm if continues.
Correct me if im wrong but i don't think they want to decide who the manager is, although they want the current football manager to leave, i think its on the basis of him been a puppet for the county board. I think if the county board give in and let the (new)manager pick his own selectors then the problem is over. I dont think they want a say in all future appointments!!
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 8:09 AM
I'd go further and say Cork should advertise for 15 blokes (it is 15 who play gah isn't it?) who'll play for them to fulfil the fixtures.
In the event they can't find 15 full-blooded Corkonians who'll recognise this is a petty squabble between a bunch of officials looking to flex their muscles and players seeking to exert probably undue influence on who should pick and manage them -then they should go outside the county and find a squad.
My grandad on my mams side was from Cork so I should qualify. I don't know a whole lot about either code but I imagine I'll pick it up pretty quickly as I go.
I'd cross any picket, even an imaginary one, for the type of bucks lads playing to those kind of crowds must be on. :)
Lr stick to the singing kid next you'll be telling us that your a closet cork city fan,i suppose ye were always a bit jealous of us down here:D
Lionel Ritchie
08/02/2008, 8:42 AM
Lr stick to the singing kid next you'll be telling us that your a closet cork city fan,i suppose ye were always a bit jealous of us down here:D
Well I did live in Cork so I speaka da lingo but hardly a closet City supporter. I've nothing specific against your neck of the woods either. But jealous? Jealous of what now?
I am allowing myself a bit of a chuckle watching the amount of hand-wringing that's going on in the GAA in general and Cork GAA in particular and it strikes me that when you cut through all the bull, the power struggles and chest beating -it comes back to incomensurate reward for the amount of effort expended and pressure borne.
I'd also echo what others have said here that if this was pretty much any other county (except Dublin probably) they'd have been out on their ear by now ...and not just for the league either.
What if Teddy Holland resigned, the players came back,
and then the County Board give Teddy the job again!
Its a bit like the Ireland job, players want to decide who's boss!
War of words broken out again last nighthttp://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mheyqlsnojcw/
Time to end it now, let the league run and perhaps they may have kissed and made up by the time championship comes around
Superhoops
08/02/2008, 10:40 AM
..Time to end it now, let the league run and perhaps they may have kissed and made up by the time championship comes around
If they don't fulfill their league commitments they should not be let play in the championship this year.
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 10:42 AM
"The systems in place in Cork for the last five years have seen a Cork team in the All-Ireland final every year. The board, whether at delegate or executive level, have decided to fix what clearly wasn't broken. You'd have to ask why.
just a little snippet i'm with the players on this one ye can have yer league and the championship,they dont call us the rebel county for no reason:p
If they don't fulfill their league commitments they should not be let play in the championship this year.
If they do manage to resolve this, I wouldnt be against them participating in the championship to be honest.
Its totally unfair on teams such as Meath who are still waiting to get underway in the league, not knowing if they have to play Cork or get the game.
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 10:55 AM
If they do manage to resolve this, I wouldnt be against them participating in the championship to be honest.
Its totally unfair on teams such as Meath who are still waiting to get underway in the league, not knowing if they have to play Cork or get the game.
but they can get underway just not against cork,let them play cork at the end of the league campaign the way the weather is at the moment it would probably be postponed anyway
but they can get underway just not against cork,let them play cork at the end of the league campaign the way the weather is at the moment it would probably be postponed anyway
Well fixtures are set previous to all of this which means other teams were already fulfilling their own fixtures over the last weekend or so, who were Meath supposed to play then?
Just ridculous situation, give other teams the games and let them get on with it
MyTown
08/02/2008, 11:04 AM
For a so-called amateur organisation, this has the smell of money all over it for me. How do the rebel sponsors feel? Are they getting value for their buck?
Cork have always been one of the most serious power brokers off the field. There's been loads of "talk" over the years of fixtures and referees going their way in the big matches.
It's a kind of a RRS in reverse :D
Personally, the longer it drags on, the happier I am. They are still GUARANTEED to win at least two hurling and possibly one football All Ireland in the next 5 years.
If they give the beloved Flower Lodge, now Pairc Ui Rinn back to the the soccer community they nicked it off, I might not be so begrudging....oh and UP GALWAY:D:p
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 11:26 AM
And ye wont let us play with our own sliothers either:D
Why doesn't the manager pick different players for the panel?
Are all players in the County on strike?
Thats what I was wondering, if its just the county players on the panel on strike, why dont they go out get together a squad of 20 players or so from different clubs. Surely they could manage that in a county as big as Cork and fulfill their fixtures.
McShels
08/02/2008, 1:23 PM
This has run on for far too long now, I see the game against kilkenny has now been postponed so IMO the teams in the hurling and football leages should be thown out of the league. As for the championship I was at first thinking they should also be kicked out of it too but that will not happen as the GAA dont have the balls to do it. I also honestly believe that if this was one of the lower profile counties e.g. sligo, carlow, they would have been turfed out long ago.
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 1:27 PM
Thats what I was wondering, if its just the county players on the panel on strike, why dont they go out get together a squad of 20 players or so from different clubs. Surely they could manage that in a county as big as Cork and fulfill their fixtures.
would you pass a picket line if you had to play or work with the same people who were on strike i for one wouldn't,we don't care too much for scabs down here
would you pass a picket line if you had to play or work with the same people who were on strike i for one wouldn't,we don't care too much for scabs down here
I have done actually, not because I'm a SCAB as you call it but because I had no problem with my employer and many of those on strike didnt want to be there but felt they had to be on strike because they were in the union. I passed it every weekend I went to work for about 2 months because I dont have money trees in my back garden and to continue my education in college I needed money to survive. I dont regret it one bit I did what I had to do for ME!
Back on topic, I dont know if the GAA will hesitate to throw them out of the championship, could use it as a case for example, dont try this or else, Harsh but could be done.
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 1:41 PM
I have done actually, not because I'm a SCAB as you call it but because I had no problem with my employer and many of those on strike didnt want to be there but felt they had to be on strike because they were in the union. I passed it every weekend I went to work for about 2 months because I dont have money trees in my back garden and to continue my education in college I needed money to survive. I dont regret it one bit I did what I had to do for ME!
Back on topic, I dont know if the GAA will hesitate to throw them out of the championship, could use it as a case for example, dont try this or else, Harsh but could be done.
i dont have a money tree either but its people like yourself let employers think that they can do what they want or in the case of the cork football team a manager that nobody wants,and the g.a.a and the cork county board are hardly going to kick both teams out think of all the money they will lose through out the year from these two teams,its all about the cold hard cash for the county boards and the croke park hierachy
i dont have a money tree either but its people like yourself let employers think that they can do what they want or in the case of the cork football team a manager that nobody wants,and the g.a.a and the cork county board are hardly going to kick both teams out think of all the money they will lose through out the year from these two teams,its all about the cold hard cash for the county boards and the croke park hierachy
People like me?? People who need to keep their jobs? Not going into the ins and outs of said strike but the employer was right.
Well if other teams start kicking up now about delays it could cause more controversy than it has already. As I said previously I've no problem with them being in the championship but at the moment I do think they should be out of the league
Maz, you may not call yourself a scab for crossing a picket to go to work, but that's what you are/were.
The GAA central will bend over backwards because of the money Cork gates bring to the organisation. That's why there'd be a different attitude if it was the Carlow panels.
I don't know what Cork is like, but in many counties the, ahem, "expense" contract that managers sign would make it very hard for a manager to walk away and very hard for a county board to sack him.
its all about the cold hard cash for the county boards
Well, to be fair, spa weekends in Inchydoney and holidays in South Africa don't pay for themselves. (edit) They are the ones that have to balance the books, and pay all these 'expenses'.
I know there's a lot going on here, but to me it boils down to one thing - players going "on strike", because they don't like the management set-up. Once you start going down that route yo may as well give in altogether - no matter what team, or sport.
Totally agree there would be a different attitude to smaller counties but its going on so long that other counties are going to kick up and either way the GAA will back down or Meath will get their game and so on, some action has to be taken, it cant go on like this
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 1:58 PM
Well, to be fair, spa weekends in Inchydoney and holidays in South Africa don't pay for themselves. (edit) They are the ones that have to balance the books, and pay all these 'expenses'.
I know there's a lot going on here, but to me it boils down to one thing - players going "on strike", because they don't like the management set-up. Once you start going down that route yo may as well give in altogether - no matter what team, or sport.
i agree with the first part of your argument about the balancing of the books but at the end of the day the G.A.A are a very rich orginsation with all the top stadiums in the country so trying the poor mouth for them is never going to wash:rolleyes:
I don't know what Cork is like, but in many counties the, ahem, "expense" contract that managers sign would make it very hard for a manager to walk away and very hard for a county board to sack him.
I could be wrong but I don't think Billy made any money managing Cork.
I'm not trying to poor mouth them. County boards run the county teams. Players play.
When you get one camp trying to tell the other camp how to do their job, then the whole thing starts to crumble.
And I know I'm over-simplifying the argument.
gee wizz
08/02/2008, 2:07 PM
I could be wrong but I don't think Billy made any money managing Cork.
Are sure ollie we're loaded down here kid,we must be paying our players loads of dosh cause for the last few years we're winning everything:D
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