Finnan unhappy with 'impatient' Irish

[sparkey]

Finnan unhappy with 'impatient' Irish
by Nick Royle, 23 January 2008
www.setanta.com

Liverpool defender Steve Finnan admits that the negativity and unrealistic expectations of the Irish public played at least a part in his decision to retire from international football.

Finnan told the Irish Independent "I think everyone still enjoys coming over, but it's becoming more difficult. Maybe because of the tournament finals we've got to in the past, people are impatient for us to get to more.

"I mean you know that if you don't play well, you're there to be criticised. That's fair enough. But there seems to be a feeling that we should be qualifying for most tournaments and that's difficult given the amount of players we've got to choose from compared to other countries.

"The atmosphere has definitely changed in my time with Ireland. There's a lot more negativity from the media. A lot more pressure is being put on. People are far more critical. Maybe that's just the way of the world now. It's changing. Things are becoming more pressurised now, more hyped.

"The negativity makes it more difficult, though. Some players come in and they don't really care what's said or written about them. They just play. And most of us understand criticism. If you don't play well, it's fair enough. But there are times now where it probably becomes a bit personal. It certainly did with [former manager]Steve Staunton, which was wrong."

The 31-year-old played 50 times for Ireland over seven years, under three different managers.

However, he rarely got a run out in his natural right-back position, often playing at left-back under Brian Kerr and Staunton.

"I didn't play very many games in my position" he continued.

"I mean I'm a right-back, full stop. But, under Brian, I was either right midfield, left back or didn't play at all.

"Other players like myself probably felt the same. I know at the time some people were saying I was the best right-back in the Premier League, so I definitely felt I should have played more in my position.

"It was often frustrating. I didn't feel I was getting a fair crack of the whip."

Sounds fairly ****ed off with his recent times with Ireland and seems happy to be out of it. IMO

[Torn-Ado]

Finnan unhappy with 'impatient' Irish
by Nick Royle, 23 January 2008
www.setanta.com

Liverpool defender Steve Finnan admits that the negativity and unrealistic expectations of the Irish public played at least a part in his decision to retire from international football.

Finnan told the Irish Independent "I think everyone still enjoys coming over, but it's becoming more difficult. Maybe because of the tournament finals we've got to in the past, people are impatient for us to get to more.

"I mean you know that if you don't play well, you're there to be criticised. That's fair enough. But there seems to be a feeling that we should be qualifying for most tournaments and that's difficult given the amount of players we've got to choose from compared to other countries.

"The atmosphere has definitely changed in my time with Ireland. There's a lot more negativity from the media. A lot more pressure is being put on. People are far more critical. Maybe that's just the way of the world now. It's changing. Things are becoming more pressurised now, more hyped.

"The negativity makes it more difficult, though. Some players come in and they don't really care what's said or written about them. They just play. And most of us understand criticism. If you don't play well, it's fair enough. But there are times now where it probably becomes a bit personal. It certainly did with [former manager]Steve Staunton, which was wrong."

The 31-year-old played 50 times for Ireland over seven years, under three different managers.

However, he rarely got a run out in his natural right-back position, often playing at left-back under Brian Kerr and Staunton.

"I didn't play very many games in my position" he continued.

"I mean I'm a right-back, full stop. But, under Brian, I was either right midfield, left back or didn't play at all.

"Other players like myself probably felt the same. I know at the time some people were saying I was the best right-back in the Premier League, so I definitely felt I should have played more in my position.

"It was often frustrating. I didn't feel I was getting a fair crack of the whip."

Sounds fairly ****ed off with his recent times with Ireland and seems happy to be out of it. IMO


negativity and unrealistic expectations of the Irish public


ARRGGGHHH!!!

Unrealistic Expectations!!! Negativity!!!

We got ridden sideways by Cyprus! We nearly lost to them at home! We could barely beat San Marino! We couldn't hold out for a minute against Slovakia. We were out of the competition with three games to go.

What in the name of Lord Jesus Christ do these overpaid, overrated w**kbags want us us to expect of them?

Jesus wept :mad:

[Stuttgart88]

Generally I'd agree Torn-Ado but talk about the headline misrepresenting the tone of the article.:mad: It was the journalist who came out with the unreasonable expectations bit, not Finnan.

When he says it's difficult to qualify for most tournaments he's right.

When he says that criticism is fine but when it gets personal (it did with Stan) he's right.

I initially expected another one of these "expectations are too high" or "we've no divine right to beat Czech republic" bulsh1t" quotes but what he said was measured and reasoned and more grown up than Keane and stan's outbursts. The headline makes it appear he was having a pop at the fans. Lazy and careless journalism, unless I'm misunderstanding why the "unrealitic" bit was not in quotes.

[Kingdom]

ARRGGGHHH!!!

Unrealistic Expectations!!! Negativity!!!

We got ridden sideways by Cyprus! We nearly lost to them at home! We could barely beat San Marino! We couldn't hold out for a minute against Slovakia. We were out of the competition with three games to go.

What in the name of Lord Jesus Christ do these overpaid, overrated w**kbags want us us to expect of them?

Jesus wept :mad:


In fairness, where does he say we have unrealistic expectations? He doesn't. He says the media have become more negative, and I thought all here agreed that our media are becoming more sensationalist and British like as of late.
I'd agree with his comments about being messed around, he is correct on that.

[Torn-Ado]

I only got as far as the first line and rage took over. All I have to see is the words 'Unrealistic Expectations' and I turn into the Incredible Hulk.

[Morbo]

So he admits the media played part in his retirement? thats pathetic be a man and take it, granted some of the Staunton stuff was uncalled for and the guy who handed Staunton the Kermet muppet should be severly beaten but I don't remember any article personally insulting Finnan, I think he is just streching for excuses

[Stuttgart88]

I have to see is the words 'Unrealistic Expectations' and I turn into the Incredible Hulk.I know how you feel.

[jebus]

Fair play Finnan, validating my point about him not playing in his position being a big factor along the way. Irish fans are moaners, pure and simple, we're a small country who's average player level seems to be high Championship or low Premiership and yet they still expect qualification each and every time (and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right). Plus some of the bile spewed at Finnan over on the Finnan retires thread proves beyond doubt that Irish fans have become more personal in their attacks on players. What the media were allowed to do to an Irish playing legend like Staunton was ridiculous, whatever his shortcomings were as manager

[Stuttgart88]

So he admits the media played part in his retirement? Does he? He just says that criticism is fine but personal insults are a step too far.

[livehead1]

Fair play Finnan, validating my point about him not playing in his position being a big factor along the way. Irish fans are moaners, pure and simple, we're a small country who's average player level seems to be high Championship or low Premiership and yet they still expect qualification each and every time (and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right). Plus some of the bile spewed at Finnan over on the Finnan retires thread proves beyond doubt that Irish fans have become more personal in their attacks on players. What the media were allowed to do to an Irish playing legend like Staunton was ridiculous, whatever his shortcomings were as manager

Your talking out your hole...Regardless of whether we expected to qualify or not, Cyprus should be 6 points, not 1, and with that, would have come qualification

[Morbo]

you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right
Wrong idiot,what are you basing that opinion on? most fans I've talked to don't expect qualifation but they do expect the players to give it a good shot and retiring early doesn't give us the best shot of qualifying

[jebus]

whinge whinge whinge is all I'm hearing lads, enjoy rotting in pot 3 for the foreseeable future after you drive off the handful of half decent players Ireland has.

[Paulie]

and yet they still expect qualification each and every time (and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right).

That's complete rubbish. There's a big difference between hoping an expecting. Nobody is going to convince me that the Irish team have played even near to the best of their capabilities over the last 5 years. This does not mean that I expected to qualify each time. It means that I know they are capable of playing better for us than they actually have been. I just expect us to be competitive. If they play as well as they can and ultimately fail then I will accept that. What I won't accept is seeing far too many of our players playing consistently at a very high level for their clubs and then, when they stick on a green jersey, having to watch them serve up the dross we have been subjected to over the last 5 years, and in particular the last 2 years.

Having said all this, as long as they keep playing, I'll keep going.

[Torn-Ado]

Fair play Finnan, validating my point about him not playing in his position being a big factor along the way. Irish fans are moaners, pure and simple, we're a small country who's average player level seems to be high Championship or low Premiership and yet they still expect qualification each and every time (and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right). Plus some of the bile spewed at Finnan over on the Finnan retires thread proves beyond doubt that Irish fans have become more personal in their attacks on players. What the media were allowed to do to an Irish playing legend like Staunton was ridiculous, whatever his shortcomings were as manager

Your attention seeking is getting annoying now. What evidence do you have to say that all Irish fans expect to qualify for the next world cup. Are you a mind reader or the worlds greatest authority on the expectations of Irish supporters.

[Thunderblaster]

If we want Ireland to qualify for every single tournament, I think we should examine our own domestic game first, at grassroots level. If we coach our kids right rather than teaching them to hoof the ball and to win at all costs, it would be a start. It is ironic that we have the weakest Republic of Ireland team in 30 years and yet, there are more kids playing football than ever before. Before we slag off Mr. Finnan, go out on Saturday morning to an U.12 game and check out the future of our national team and then post.

[jebus]

That's complete rubbish. There's a big difference between hoping an expecting. Nobody is going to convince me that the Irish team have played even near to the best of their capabilities over the last 5 years. This does not mean that I expected to qualify each time. It means that I know they are capable of playing better for us than they actually have been. I just expect us to be competitive. If they play as well as they can and ultimately fail then I will accept that.

And if they decide they don't want to play for you anymore?

Oh and yes Tornado I am in fact a mind reader and speak for not only Irish football fans, but Ireland as a nation

[shanman2]

Fair play Finnan, validating my point about him not playing in his position being a big factor along the way. Irish fans are moaners, pure and simple, we're a small country who's average player level seems to be high Championship or low Premiership and yet they still expect qualification each and every time (and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right). Plus some of the bile spewed at Finnan over on the Finnan retires thread proves beyond doubt that Irish fans have become more personal in their attacks on players. What the media were allowed to do to an Irish playing legend like Staunton was ridiculous, whatever his shortcomings were as manager

Here here Jebus. Your so right on this one. We are at a point now in Irish soccer where we the fans need to have a good look at ourselves. We have not got the players anymore simple as that. Our national league is ranked among the lowest in Europe as is our population where for years we have punched above our weight at all sports. Lads get behind the team suppport and the next manager whoever he may be. Most of all leave the players alone. Thread softly for you thread on my dreams.

[OneRedArmy]

and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup rightI and most of the people I regularly attend international games with don't. Also, when we drew at home with the Czechs (a result that did nothin for our qualification prospects) most people left the ground reasonably happy.

But I do expect to regularly beat teams of the quality of Cyprus, San Marino and the like.

Awaits next grandstanding reply.....

[Stuttgart88]

Jebus WUMs frequently on the Irish section but apart from the "we expect to qualify" tone I think he's right in some of his points. He does himself no favours with the way he makes his points though.

As said above, we don't expect to qualify, we expect to give it a good shot and avoid pathetic performances like Cyprus and San Marino. That's not "****e" and it's abundantly obvious.

Not all Irish fans are moaners but many are. Not just fans of the national team. Look at the reaction in the eLOI section of this forum to Ray Houghton's comments that rich Irish should invest in their own league. Almost impossible to moan about that but almost every post was a moan. Unbelievable.

Our average player is low Premiership / high Chamionship. I think that's true.

The nature of some of the response to Finnan was OTT.

[Morbo]

Does he? He just says that criticism is fine but personal insults are a step too far.

Well, according to the author of the article he did, does sound like thats what Finnan is implying even if he didn't say so directly.

[citizenerased]

Here here Jebus. Your so right on this one. We are at a point now in Irish soccer where we the fans need to have a good look at ourselves. We have not got the players anymore simple as that. Our national league is ranked among the lowest in Europe as is our population where for years we have punched above our weight at all sports. Lads get behind the team suppport and the next manager whoever he may be. Most of all leave the players alone. Thread softly for you thread on my dreams.

Talkin ****e mate.. we dont have the players...so Poland, Greece, Sweden have better players than us? do they? it doesnt matter that our domestic league is poor, as none of our international players come from that league.

I think fans have a right to criticise,,the performance more so than the results is the bottom line...if we had failed to qualify in the manner that scotland did, there would be no complaints..but we didnt we were humiliated twice by cyprus, once against san marino.

when your taking a week off work and paying big money in febuary to go to san marino to support the irish team...that is unacceptable...We have every right to have high expectations..we have a good squad..

[superfrank]

Finnan's right. The media are piling the pressure on the lads these days and unfairly imo. I think some of this stems from Irish fans expectations, after all these journos are Ireland fans too and they'll have their own expectations which will influence their writing style.

But imo the "regular" fans do have high expectations. I believe Noelys Guitar came up with a "realisitic" projected points total for the WC qualifying group which in fairness was very kind. The most people on here seem to expect Ireland to finish second, despite them being third seeds for the last two qualifying campaigns, meaning the team was going downhill BEFORE Staunton took over.

[Metrostars]

I blame the so called Celtic Tiger myself, whoever he is. Ireland has now become accustomed to having whatever you want, right now. A lot of fans(not all) and a lot of people in the media are that way about our team, expecting them to play at their best 100% of the time. When things don't go their way, they cry like a big baby and abuse those involved.

It wasnt that way 20 or 30 years ago. Even though we didnt qualify for much, people had more respect and didnt hound out the people involved at a whim.

[Hibernian]

ARRGGGHHH!!!

Unrealistic Expectations!!! Negativity!!!

We got ridden sideways by Cyprus! We nearly lost to them at home! We could barely beat San Marino! We couldn't hold out for a minute against Slovakia. We were out of the competition with three games to go.

What in the name of Lord Jesus Christ do these overpaid, overrated w**kbags want us us to expect of them?

Jesus wept :mad:

100000000000000000% agree

[jebus]

One man's WUM is another man's sense talking....guy. Anyway I didn't realise posting on this thread, and the other one on Steve Finnan makes me a constant WUM in the Irish section. Heaven knows what you would have thought of me back in the days I was allowed on the Galway forum

Anyway Irish fans don't pay Finnan's wages so Finnan doesn't owe Irish fans a thing. If he feels the weather is slightly colder in Dublin than it is in Liverpool, if he feels the media is too harsh, if he dislikes the snot nosed kid who sits behind one of the goals each game and decides to retire for any of these reasons then it is his choice.

[Kingdom]

when your taking a week off work and paying big money in febuary to go to san marino to support the irish team...that is unacceptable...We have every right to have high expectations..we have a good squad..

This is the crux of the problem. If I was going to away games to be entertained, I wouldn't go. Also you don't need to take a week off work to support the team against Andorra. Quite a lot of people fly in and out in a day.
Thats not to say the fans should appluad atrociousness, but this shyte of I've paid my money, you better entertain me is nonsense.

[OneRedArmy]

Anyway Irish fans don't pay Finnan's wages so Finnan doesn't owe Irish fans a thing. If he feels the weather is slightly colder in Dublin than it is in Liverpool, if he feels the media is too harsh, if he dislikes the snot nosed kid who sits behind one of the goals each game and decides to retire for any of these reasons then it is his choice.Absolutely correct but the flip side of this coin is that he will be judged on the basis of this decision.

And thats exactly what you are complaining about....

[jmurphyc]

This is the crux of the problem. If I was going to away games to be entertained, I wouldn't go. Also you don't need to take a week off work to support the team against Andorra. Quite a lot of people fly in and out in a day.
Thats not to say the fans should appluad atrociousness, but this shyte of I've paid my money, you better entertain me is nonsense.

When people are paying a lot of money they deserve a return on their money spent. When I have gone to games I don't necessarily expect to be entertained, as I know we're not Brazil, but I do expect competency combined with effort and this campaign certainly lacked the former, and often the latter. I don't think this is nonsense.

[Kingdom]

When people are paying a lot of money they deserve a return on their money spent. When I have gone to games I don't necessarily expect to be entertained, as I know we're not Brazil, but I do expect competency combined with effort and this campaign certainly lacked the former, and often the latter. I don't think this is nonsense.

I go to games because I love watching football and I love watching my country. Half the purpose of the away trips, are to enjoy the local country, the other half is to watch Ireland. Regardless of how well they do, its a talking point till the next away trip, or stories to rattle off in my winter years, thats my return from going to the matches.

[citizenerased]

This is the crux of the problem. If I was going to away games to be entertained, I wouldn't go. Also you don't need to take a week off work to support the team against Andorra. Quite a lot of people fly in and out in a day.
Thats not to say the fans should appluad atrociousness, but this shyte of I've paid my money, you better entertain me is nonsense.

did i mention entertain? no dont think i did...i said support...if you cant distinguish the difference then thats your ignorance!! God fobid I expected a solid performance against one of the worst internationl teams in the world..if that is the crux of the problem in respect to high expectations, we have some serious problems ahead so.

On another point, some of us can fly 'in and out' as we cannot afford it, so we have to go round about ways using our compatriots' Michael O'Learys destination points...

[citizenerased]

I go to games because I love watching football and I love watching my country. Half the purpose of the away trips, are to enjoy the local country, the other half is to watch Ireland. Regardless of how well they do, its a talking point till the next away trip, or stories to rattle off in my winter years, thats my return from going to the matches.


I think you will find that this is the crux of the problem to many leprechauns too busy dressing up as st patrick and gettin sauced up to even care about the team...
'Sure lads, arnt we only paddies sure what business have we at the world cup at all at all,,,get the drinks in Finbarr and lets do the riverdance, becasue us irish are great craic'

[shanman2]

Point 1= Talkin ****e mate.. we dont have the players...so Poland, Greece, Sweden have better players than us? do they? it doesnt matter that our domestic league is poor, as none of our international players come from that league.

Point 2= I think fans have a right to criticise,,the performance more so than the results is the bottom line...if we had failed to qualify in the manner that scotland did, there would be no complaints..but we didnt we were humiliated twice by cyprus, once against san marino.

Point 3= when your taking a week off work and paying big money in febuary to go to san marino to support the irish team...that is unacceptable...We have every right to have high expectations..we have a good squad..

Point 1= Poland, Greece and Sweden all have teams who compete regularly in the champions league So yes they do they have strength in depth in the most important point here, a much bigger selection pool.

Point 2= Ya grand you deserve your say we all do as fans. Did we have the manager and players Scotland had -NO. Pro footballers know they have played muck they don't need the fans to turn on them and abuse them your no better than those English yobos. Supporters stand by their team in their hour of need. If your not happy don't go.

Point 3= Someone payed for the performances namely Stephen Staunton. By god did pay dearly publically humiliated and broken down as a man. We have a good 15 players thats all. If we have a few injuries we are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. The Irish team need your support not your abuse.

[jmurphyc]

I go to games because I love watching football and I love watching my country. Half the purpose of the away trips, are to enjoy the local country, the other half is to watch Ireland. Regardless of how well they do, its a talking point till the next away trip, or stories to rattle off in my winter years, thats my return from going to the matches.

I agree. The match is only half the entertainment on away trips, but the reason I go is because of the games and therefore I want a competent set up coupled with effort. Results or entertainment don't necessarily have to follow but if we aren't doing as well as we are capable of then it will depress me.

[jmurphyc]

The Irish team need your support not your abuse.

But he didn't mention anything about abuse in his post. You seem to make out as though we were being unreasonable during the last campaign. Were the crowd just supposed to sit back and let Staunton stay in charge for another two years when we have every right to expect better.

[Torn-Ado]

Point 1= Poland, Greece and Sweden all have teams who compete regularly in the champions league So yes they do they have strength in depth in the most important point here, a much bigger selection pool.



Eh? :confused:

Greece yes, as for the other two, No.

[NeilMcD]

One man's WUM is another man's sense talking....guy. Anyway I didn't realise posting on this thread, and the other one on Steve Finnan makes me a constant WUM in the Irish section. Heaven knows what you would have thought of me back in the days I was allowed on the Galway forum

Anyway Irish fans don't pay Finnan's wages so Finnan doesn't owe Irish fans a thing. If he feels the weather is slightly colder in Dublin than it is in Liverpool, if he feels the media is too harsh, if he dislikes the snot nosed kid who sits behind one of the goals each game and decides to retire for any of these reasons then it is his choice.

Yeah and its our choice to slag him for it.

[gustavo]

We got ridden sideways by Cyprus! We nearly lost to them at home! We could barely beat San Marino! We couldn't hold out for a minute against Slovakia. We were out of the competition with three games to go.

What in the name of Lord Jesus Christ do these overpaid, overrated w**kbags want us us to expect of them?

Jesus wept :mad:

Why should we expect to beat Slovakia?

[jebus]

Point 1= Poland, Greece and Sweden all have teams who compete regularly in the champions league So yes they do they have strength in depth in the most important point here, a much bigger selection pool.

Point 2= Ya grand you deserve your say we all do as fans. Did we have the manager and players Scotland had -NO. Pro footballers know they have played muck they don't need the fans to turn on them and abuse them your no better than those English yobos. Supporters stand by their team in their hour of need. If your not happy don't go.

Point 3= Someone payed for the performances namely Stephen Staunton. By god did pay dearly publically humiliated and broken down as a man. We have a good 15 players thats all. If we have a few injuries we are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. The Irish team need your support not your abuse.

In A Nutshell time people


Yeah and its our choice to slag him for it.

Then it's my choice to call you a whingbag, see how that works. Plus people saying 'he's a ****ing national disgrace *white noise*' are gone beyond slagging

[shanman2]

But he didn't mention anything about abuse in his post. You seem to make out as though we were being unreasonable during the last campaign. Were the crowd just supposed to sit back and let Staunton stay in charge for another two years when we have every right to expect better.

You obviously switched off your tv after the game!!! Cause I remember more than a few fans roaring abuse at them.

[Beavis]

I blame the so called Celtic Tiger myself, whoever he is. Ireland has now become accustomed to having whatever you want, right now. A lot of fans(not all) and a lot of people in the media are that way about our team, expecting them to play at their best 100% of the time. When things don't go their way, they cry like a big baby and abuse those involved.

It wasnt that way 20 or 30 years ago. Even though we didnt qualify for much, people had more respect and didnt hound out the people involved at a whim.

I agree totally, the Celtic Tiger has really changed the people here.

[shanman2]

Eh? :confused:

Greece yes, as for the other two, No.

No point answering to your comments, you don't seem to understand.

[citizenerased]

Point 1= Poland, Greece and Sweden all have teams who compete regularly in the champions league So yes they do they have strength in depth in the most important point here, a much bigger selection pool..

Yeah what swedish and polish teams have qualified for the group stages of the champions league in the last 4 years. How many of their squads play in the supposed best league in the world compared to ours? Have they got better squads than us? yes or no


Point 2= Ya grand you deserve your say we all do as fans. Did we have the manager and players Scotland had -NO. Pro footballers know they have played muck they don't need the fans to turn on them and abuse them your no better than those English yobos. Supporters stand by their team in theirour of need. If your not happy don't go... Oh...sorry you mean top quality scottish players like darren fletcher, stephen McManus, Kenny Miller, and James McFadden and barry ferguson...what was i thinking? We didnt have the manager, but isnt that half the point!! to get the best possible preformance from the group of players at their disposal.!!

Also i dont shout abuse at them, but iam entitled to be unhappy and jump around like a leprachaun when we lose...I wont stop goin, and i wont stop complaining either..because ill follow the team through Thick and thin..unlike alot of other irish fans!!

Point 3= Someone payed for the performances namely Stephen Staunton. By god did pay dearly publically humiliated and broken down as a man. We have a good 15 players thats all. If we have a few injuries we are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. The Irish team need your support not your abuse.[/QUOTE] I think youl find it was the fai who paid, 800,000 to be exact..he was on 400,000 grand a year, no one forced him to take the job,,the abuse was harsh and over the top..but he made a hash of it...plus stan is the most over-rate player ever he was never a 'great' player for us!

[jmurphyc]

You obviously switched off your tv after the game!!! Cause I remember more than a few fans roaring abuse at them.

I was at the game. :confused: I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying that the poster didn't mention anything about abuse.

[RogerMilla]

Steve finnan has now retired , served us pretty well and so deserves his chance to give out to the media. But the fact is that we were utter toilet in the last campaign and everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves except Hunt , Doyle , Given and Dunne , maybe andy reid( apologies if i have left anyone out but thats about it for me , S. Ireland outwith grannygate and carsely for turning up but not for his play). We need committed individuals. if the players dont like going on international duty then get lost. retire if you like. we will support the eleven lads who are on the pitch. If we dotn agree with the management then we will let them know. With a decent manager we could be close to challenging regardless of who we get in the group with and we could be going to every second or third tournament. we have been to 1 in the last 7 tournaments. i think we should have gone to more , certainly the year we were seeded first was a poor performance. we have outstanding fans , committed in a way that the french bandwagon jumpers and the germans who expect to win every game will never know.

Impatient? My arse!

[Torn-Ado]

No point answering to your comments, you don't seem to understand.

Brilliant.

Now do please tell me what Polish and Swedish sides have qualified regularly for the champions league like you said earlier.

Because I don't seem to understand, like. :eek:

[Lionel Ritchie]

Fair play Finnan, validating my point about him not playing in his position being a big factor along the way. Irish fans are moaners, pure and simple, we're a small country who's average player level seems to be high Championship or low Premiership and yet they still expect qualification each and every time (and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right). Plus some of the bile spewed at Finnan over on the Finnan retires thread proves beyond doubt that Irish fans have become more personal in their attacks on players. What the media were allowed to do to an Irish playing legend like Staunton was ridiculous, whatever his shortcomings were as manager

Qualification for tournaments has relatively little to do with it. Irish supporters expect the team to be competetive. They expect the team to still be in contention to qualify for a tournament with three games to go. Looking around Europe at comparatively sized nations, their player pools and general standard ...that's not asking too much.

I, and I suspect the great majority on here, fully agree with you in relation to the media. We now have an element in our media that bring Kermit the Frog dolls to Irish training sessions. Now personally I'd like that element rounded up and gassed like rats but my legal advice is that, if I were to do so, my position before the courts and in the eyes of the law is at best uncertain and perhaps even actionable.

[shanman2]

Yeah what swedish and polish teams have qualified for the group stages of the champions league in the last 4 years. How many of their squads play in the supposed best league in the world compared to ours? Have they got better squads than us? yes or no

Oh...sorry you mean top quality scottish players like darren fletcher, stephen McManus, Kenny Miller, and James McFadden and barry ferguson...what was i thinking? We didnt have the manager, but isnt that half the point!! to get the best possible preformance from the group of players at their disposal.!!

Also i dont shout abuse at them, but iam entitled to be unhappy and jump around like a leprachaun when we lose...I wont stop goin, and i wont stop complaining either..because ill follow the team through Thick and thin..unlike alot of other irish fans!!

Point 3= Someone payed for the performances namely Stephen Staunton. By god did pay dearly publically humiliated and broken down as a man. We have a good 15 players thats all. If we have a few injuries we are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. The Irish team need your support not your abuse. I think youl find it was the fai who paid, 800,000 to be exact..he was on 400,000 grand a year, no one forced him to take the job,,the abuse was harsh and over the top..but he made a hash of it...plus stan is the most over-rate player ever he was never a 'great' player for us![/QUOTE]

102 caps seem to say otherwise. No he wasn't forced to do the job. But he got it he had to go grand i can except that. Humiliating him publically is not exceptable.

Scotlands first 11 was far ahead of ours throughout the qualifying campaign. I Will admit that if we have everyone fit our first 11 is good enough to qualify after that any injury and we are fecked. Scotland had their preferred first 11 available most of the time in the qualifying.

[citizenerased]

agree 100% Roger well said...

[Torn-Ado]

Why should we expect to beat Slovakia?

We should expect to beat them with 60 seconds left on the clock. But as usual we folded.

Thats my point.

[Stuttgart88]

And maybe because Wales beat them 5-2 the same week, same place.