Finnan unhappy with 'impatient' Irish

[boovidge]

I Will admit that if we have everyone fit our first 11 is good enough to qualify after that any injury and we are fecked.

So we go from 'being good enough to qualify' to being thrashed by Cyprus and scraping past San Marino in the last minute because of injuries to a few players?

[Dr. Ogba]

Qualification for tournaments has relatively little to do with it. Irish supporters expect the team to be competetive. They expect the team to still be in contention to qualify for a tournament with three games to go. Looking around Europe at comparatively sized nations, their player pools and general standard ...that's not asking too much.

I, and I suspect the great majority on here, fully agree with you in relation to the media. We now have an element in our media that bring Kermit the Frog dolls to Irish training sessions. Now personally I'd like that element rounded up and gassed like rats but my legal advice is that, if I were to do so, my position before the courts and in the eyes of the law is at best uncertain and perhaps even actionable.

totally agree. well said

[jebus]

I, and I suspect the great majority on here, fully agree with you in relation to the media. We now have an element in our media that bring Kermit the Frog dolls to Irish training sessions. Now personally I'd like that element rounded up and gassed like rats but my legal advice is that, if I were to do so, my position before the courts and in the eyes of the law is at best uncertain and perhaps even actionable.

I doubt that, and the previous thread and the nonsense spouted against him suggest that I'm right in thinking a lot of Irish fans fully endorse the Kermit the Frog approach

[boovidge]

jebus, just because the fans are wrong doesn't make the players right. They underperformed in the last campaign.

[livehead1]

I doubt that, and the previous thread and the nonsense spouted against him suggest that I'm right in thinking a lot of Irish fans fully endorse the Kermit the Frog approach

Its doubtless that some do endorse this approach, similarly there are some in Germany who fully endorse facism, but they are the minority in the extreme. The vast majority feel that the media have a serious problem but this should not distract us from the fact that our team has underachieved in recent years.

Your problem appears to be that you cannot accept anyone's opinion but your own. Numerous posters on this board have made extremely valid and relevant points on this topic yet you have chosen to simply ignore them and continue to argue a side issue.

[jebus]

jebus, just because the fans are wrong doesn't make the players right. They underperformed in the last campaign.

Not to the point that some of you think. They came third, albeit with a lower points total then should be expected, which is their natural level in a group including the Czechs and Germany, and I'm sure the players were taken back with the absolute **** that was spouted against Staunton in particular, and them all in general, by the media and the ordinary fan. Once again some of ye seem to think that if your country wants you then it's national duty to uphold the standards the fans set for you. It isn't, you don't pay their wages, they are there by choice, and so when they don't want to be they should be allowed leave without any fuss, or in the case of footballers like Finnan, to a round of applause, not to a bunch of 'I'm more Irish than you' lunacy for a bunch of no-marks

[jebus]

Your problem appears to be that you cannot accept anyone's opinion but your own. Numerous posters on this board have made extremely valid and relevant points on this topic yet you have chosen to simply ignore them and continue to argue a side issue.

And those valid points that I haven't argued would be?

By the by The Sun has one of the highest readerships in Ireland, first or second if I remember correctly, the majority of which are males, and on an assumption, sports loving males, so they obviously found something in the Kermit the Frog nonsense that they enjoyed, so I don't think its as small a majority as you think

[jmurphyc]

Not to the point that some of you think. They came third, albeit with a lower points total then should be expected, which is their natural level in a group including the Czechs and Germany, and I'm sure the players were taken back with the absolute **** that was spouted against Staunton in particular, and them all in general, by the media and the ordinary fan. Once again some of ye seem to think that if your country wants you then it's national duty to uphold the standards the fans set for you. It isn't, you don't pay their wages, they are there by choice, and so when they don't want to be they should be allowed leave without any fuss, or in the case of footballers like Finnan, to a round of applause, not to a bunch of 'I'm more Irish than you' lunacy for a bunch of no-marks

If I took the Ireland job and did an atrocious job (which is what Staunton did) then I would be expecting abuse. What about the **** that he spouted when he was in charge of the team and the **** that he spouted to a newspaper the other day? And anyway, what exactly did the ordinary fan do to Staunton that was so bad? The team got booed a few times, big WOW, this happens in football stadiums all over the world.

[jebus]

If I took the Ireland job and did an atrocious job (which is what Staunton did) then I would be expecting abuse. What about the **** that he spouted when he was in charge of the team and the **** that he spouted to a newspaper the other day? And anyway, what exactly did the ordinary fan do to Staunton that was so bad? The team got booed a few times, big WOW, this happens in football stadiums all over the world.

You'd expect to be portrayed as mentally retarded by Today FM? As a fictional frog by the Sun? As a national disgrace by people like you ringing into Joe Duffy etc.? You sir are a liar

[jmurphyc]

You'd expect to be portrayed as mentally retarded by Today FM? As a fictional frog by the Sun? As a national disgrace by people like you ringing into Joe Duffy etc.? You sir are a liar

If I was taking the Ireland job then I would expect nothing else from the national tabloids. I suggest you go into a newsagents and have a look at the front page of the tabloids as what happened to Staunton is nothing new. Why are you blaming the ordinary fan for these things? Again, what exactly did the ordinary fan do to Staunton that was so bad?

[jebus]

If I was taking the Ireland job then I would expect nothing else from the national tabloids. I suggest you go into a newsagents and have a look at the front page of the tabloids as what happened to Staunton is nothing new. Why are you blaming the ordinary fan for these things? Again, what exactly did the ordinary fan do to Staunton that was so bad?

They verbally abused the guy from the stands, they bought the tabloids that sought to make his life a misery, and they tuned in to the show that made him seem mentally disabled. That and they talked endlessly about how much of a disgrace he is, both to each other and on the national airwaves, when he is anything but.

[Stuttgart88]

Finnan says that type of personal criticism is too much. I agree.

I think it's sad that tabloid culture has taken hold in Ireland, not to mention the hypocrisy of the likes of The Mail having an Irish edition given their utter contempt for the Irish in the parent edition.

Not having tabloids used to be one of the best things about "old Ireland". The fans' outlook has changed. They've become spoilt and think Ireland is a good substitute for a Premiership team. Shame, though there are still great fans in among the support.

[jmurphyc]

They verbally abused the guy from the stands, they bought the tabloids that sought to make his life a misery, and they tuned in to the show that made him seem mentally disabled. That and they talked endlessly about how much of a disgrace he is, both to each other and on the national airwaves, when he is anything but.

What verbal abuse? A few boos? Do you have proof that any of the people who go the games buy these tabloids or tune in to Joe Duffy or talk about him being a disgrace? Has someone on here called him disabled? You're starting to bore me...

[shanman2]

Not to the point that some of you think. They came third, albeit with a lower points total then should be expected, which is their natural level in a group including the Czechs and Germany, and I'm sure the players were taken back with the absolute **** that was spouted against Staunton in particular, and them all in general, by the media and the ordinary fan. Once again some of ye seem to think that if your country wants you then it's national duty to uphold the standards the fans set for you. It isn't, you don't pay their wages, they are there by choice, and so when they don't want to be they should be allowed leave without any fuss, or in the case of footballers like Finnan, to a round of applause, not to a bunch of 'I'm more Irish than you' lunacy for a bunch of no-marks

This is what gets to me Jebus fans come on here with the opinin they are always right, the players are always wrong, Stan was on a hiding to nothing as soon as he got the job. John Delaney being the fault of that. Why would Steve Finnan, Steven Ireland etc want to play for Ireland when as soon as they play badly the fans will slate them.

Which one of the Irish players was it that said that is easier to stay in England and play for your club and fans that love you than come over here and be shot at by the media and slated by fans...

Steve Finnan will be 34 by the time the end of the next campaign, He felt that other lads could give Ireland more. I think he is right, he is suffering with injuries. I will always remember the cross for Jayo against holland. God knows it was one of the happiest days of my life. I respect Steves decision and wish him all the best. Thank you for holding your hand up and admitting it.

[Stuttgart88]

Which one of the Irish players was it that said that is easier to stay in England and play for your club and fans that love you than come over here and be shot at by the media and slated by fans...
Whoever it was needs to take a good look at himself.

[jebus]

What verbal abuse? A few boos? Do you have proof that any of the people who go the games buy these tabloids or tune in to Joe Duffy or talk about him being a disgrace? Has someone on here called him disabled? You're starting to bore me...

Heaven forbid I bore you, I know what high standards you have in the entertainment category and all. Come back with some proper logic champ, not the nonsense you just spewed there

[jmurphyc]

Heaven forbid I bore you, I know what high standards you have in the entertainment category and all. Come back with some proper logic champ, not the nonsense you just spewed there

Again, what did the fans who attended the matches do that was so dreadful to Staunton and the players? You refuse to answer this question. I admit that the booing during the match irked me but I'd hardly call it horrible abuse.

[shanman2]

Again, what did the fans who attended the matches do that was so dreadful to Staunton and the players? You refuse to answer this question. I admit that the booing during the match irked me but I'd hardly call it horrible abuse.

Try have a good look through this thread....http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=80806

[jebus]

Again, what did the fans who attended the matches do that was so dreadful to Staunton and the players? You refuse to answer this question. I admit that the booing during the match irked me but I'd hardly call it horrible abuse.

Booing and shouting insults at him on the touchline. What else do you want me to say for the UMPTEENTH time?

[jmurphyc]

Try have a good look through this thread....http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=80806

I read that thread before. I can't seem to get past the first page at the moment but I've seen nothing so far that is really awful personal criticism. In fact a lot of people stick up for him.

[jmurphyc]

Booing and shouting insults at him on the touchline. What else do you want me to say for the UMPTEENTH time?

I didn't hear any personal insults but there was undoubtedly booing. But you can hear people booing in practically every stadium in the world if the result doesn't go their teams way. I really don't think that's enough to slaughter the crowd for or for Finnan to retire. He can hear booing after most games at Anfield these days.

[Traps Cat]

You'd expect to be portrayed as mentally retarded by Today FM? As a fictional frog by the Sun? As a national disgrace by people like you ringing into Joe Duffy etc.? You sir are a liar


"A Fictional Frog" - quote of the day!!

[boovidge]

I really don't think that's enough to slaughter the crowd for or for Finnan to retire. He can hear booing after most games at Anfield these days.

Yeah but i guess Finnan can plug his ear holes with the wads of cash he gets each game eh?

[Wolfie]

a fictional frog ........

Yeah I keep hearing mention of this bloke "Gerard Houllier" but I'm beginning to doubt he exists at all.

[OneRedArmy]

And those valid points that I haven't argued would be?
Your ridiculous assertion previously that EVERY Irish fan expected to qualify.

[Greenforever]

This is the crux of the problem. If I was going to away games to be entertained, I wouldn't go. Also you don't need to take a week off work to support the team against Andorra. Quite a lot of people fly in and out in a day.
Thats not to say the fans should appluad atrociousness, but this shyte of I've paid my money, you better entertain me is nonsense.

When is Andora, San MArino? The shortest trip realistically for this was 2 days mid week as it was a night match with no chance of a return flight same day.

[shakermaker1982]

heaven forbid and how dare us that we the fans expect our team to beat nations such as Cyprus home and away. I very much doubt that the majority of our fans demanded we qualify for Euro 2008 - we just didn't expect to be the laughing stock of international football on three occasions (Cyprus home and away, San Marino).

[jebus]

Your ridiculous assertion previously that EVERY Irish fan expected to qualify.

They do, I've talked to every single one of them in the past week and thats what I've been told

[Wangball]

Why can't we all just be friends??????????

[Colie]

Fair play Finnan, validating my point about him not playing in his position being a big factor along the way. Irish fans are moaners, pure and simple, we're a small country who's average player level seems to be high Championship or low Premiership and yet they still expect qualification each and every time (and don't give me that ****e about Cyprus etc., you all expect to qualify for the next World Cup right). Plus some of the bile spewed at Finnan over on the Finnan retires thread proves beyond doubt that Irish fans have become more personal in their attacks on players. What the media were allowed to do to an Irish playing legend like Staunton was ridiculous, whatever his shortcomings were as manager
I agree 100% Jebus. Well put.

The fans have changed drastically. Even from the McCarthy/ Kerr campaign to the Cyprus game. If the whole squad told the fans, & consequently the international scene, to fuch off they'd be well within their rights. I said it after the last campaign & I'll say it again now; shame on you booboys.


People who say FACT at the end of sentences have less sex than the rest of us, TRUE
Brilliant

[mypost]

Sorry to interrupt the Foot.ie Kama Sutra debate, but anyway here goes...

Once you see the words "Unrealistic expectations" in an Ireland article, it immediately invalidates it.

Beating Cyprus and SM before the 95th minute with a team of 9-10 PL players, is unrealistic expectations, is it?? :confused: Not when you've paid several hundred €'s to watch it, it isn't. :mad:

[eirebhoy]

It is ironic that we have the weakest Republic of Ireland team in 30 years and yet, there are more kids playing football than ever before.
It's far from the weakest in 30 years. Unless you expect our players to play to their potential under a terrible manager, defeating the purpose of a manager.

[Paddy Garcia]

They verbally abused the guy from the stands, they bought the tabloids that sought to make his life a misery, and they tuned in to the show that made him seem mentally disabled. That and they talked endlessly about how much of a disgrace he is, both to each other and on the national airwaves, when he is anything but.

A far point. However this should not invalidate the reasonable criticism that can rightly be made about Stans decision making, leadership, technical know how, selections, interviews and broken promises.

tbh in some ways the Irish fans were pretty tolerant, many on this board gave him every chance before withdrawing support.

His less than honest evaluation of his time in charge is not going to win fans over either.

[Beavis]

The treatment of Stan was a disgrace. 102 caps for your country and 100% commitment over 15 years obviously matters nothing. I find it very difficult to understand the logic these days. If you dont have natural football/management ability, like 99% of us in this country, and have the cheek to want to lead the country you love, you are abused like a rapist in the street. There was horrible things thrown at Stan during the Cyprus game at Croke Park, as well as the obligatory 'f**k off Stan ye muppet' from the stands every few minutes, morons clearly manipulated by their daily rag. I dont blame the media, they are simply businesses catering for a market. If people would refuse to use those papers as bogroll (as I would since the 'muppet' headline) they wouldnt print such filth.



There are many reasoned posters on here who think their arguments through before posting them.
You on the other hand seem to type the first thing that enters your head, and to be honest, and also frank, its complete and utter sh*te and is doing everyone's head in.

You and other 'reasoned posters' (I suspect translating as anyone who agrees with you) have been reduced to labelling the oppostion as a WUM and sh1te spewer, and to consolling yourself in your greater numbers, to conceal the fact that you have nothing left to back up your arguments.:rolleyes:

[dr_peepee]

But here's the thing lads.... His retirement wasn't about the squad or the ninety minutes. It was peripheral factors that dictated his retiremant. Fans attitudes was a factor.. Undeniably.. But why??? It's easy to say it's a sign of the times, but that's rubbish... It's because clowns like Delaney made a bold gamble with someone elses chips two years ago that's why. It was a rediculous decision to hire staunton (much as we all respected his playing contributions)... But what did we do?? Fell in behind the set up out of what in hind sight was misplaced efforts of supporting our team.. So what happens when we're proved right?? We're sheep of the media!! We're disgruntled dundalk fans!!! We've unrealistic exptectations.. All eventually cited as factors by Finnan when he retired (in so many words obviously)...

We were right when we were dissapointed at stans appointment... And proved right.. And our support of the team at the time was seen as a vindication of a crazy appointment.. And our eventual voicing of dissapointment was portrayed as anything but football support... F'kin Delaney and the FAI are the reason Steve Finnan thinks Ireland fans aren't what they are.. This isn't 20 20 vision in hind sight. This is perceptive objective football fans being proved right and being portrayed as tabloid sponges...

(I shouldn't drink read this board...It gets me going)....

[viagogo]

Anyone think that the move to Croke Park has had a negative effect on the team. I know it was probably our only option but every game we played a Croker had a big amount of fans who were probably never at a game in all their life.

[Ceirtlis]

I agree 100% Jebus. Well put.

The fans have changed drastically. Even from the McCarthy/ Kerr campaign to the Cyprus game. If the whole squad told the fans, & consequently the international scene, to fuch off they'd be well within their rights. I said it after the last campaign & I'll say it again now; shame on you booboys.


Brilliant

McCarthy was booed off in his last match in charge fella.

[jmurphyc]

There was horrible things thrown at Stan during the Cyprus game at Croke Park, as well as the obligatory 'f**k off Stan ye muppet' from the stands every few minutes, morons clearly manipulated by their daily rag. I dont blame the media, they are simply businesses catering for a market. If people would refuse to use those papers as bogroll (as I would since the 'muppet' headline) they wouldnt print such filth.


Maybe I was in the wrong section but I didn't see any personal abuse hurled at Staunton or any objects thrown. I personally don't think he was that badly treated by the fans. The tabloids did treat him badly, but I wouldn't expect any different from them. In fact, I'd say the fans were actually quite patient with him (remember the great reception the team got at the Czech home game after the Cyprus debacle a few days earlier).

[mypost]

The treatment of Stan was a disgrace. 102 caps for your country and 100% commitment over 15 years obviously matters nothing.

I'm afraid it means nothing when it comes to management. 6 wins from 17 games tells it's own story. Many PL bosses (with experience) would be sacked with that record.

If anything, his treatment of the fans, and his contempt for the media was a disgrace.

[RogerMilla]

Stan was an utterly incapable manager , Anyone who defends him is doing it out of sympathy not respect. Hopefully we get someone who can mastermind a 6 point or at least a 4 point haul off the cyprans in the next qualifiers,

[Morbo]

It's far from the weakest in 30 years. Unless you expect our players to play to their potential under a terrible manager, defeating the purpose of a manager.
True, the weakest team in 30 years IMO was probably around 1997 when McGrath, Aldridge were gone and the likes of Townsend, Houghton, Cascarino were about 35+, still managed to get to a playyoff though

[Dr. Ogba]

True, the weakest team in 30 years IMO was probably around 1997 when McGrath, Aldridge were gone and the likes of Townsend, Houghton, Cascarino were about 35+, still managed to get to a playyoff though


i'd probably go as far to say that Kerr, out of all of the managers post-Charlton, had the weakest pool of players and time and again had to rely on the likes of Gary Doherty to throw up front. Funnily enough I really think that if Kerr had all of these young lads coming through when he was in charge then we would have definitely be challenging for the playoffs....

[Stuttgart88]

One thing that surprised me about Kerr was that despite having made his name with young players he never really trusted young players in his senior teams. He was very conservative in his selection. I know you can rattle off the number of players who made their debut under Kerr but I think this disguises the reality.

That said, it's a manager's prerogative to decide whether a young player is good enough and maybe he got it right. Staunton seemed to think that anyone in his late 20s was too old and that playing promising kids before they'd even forged a meaningful club career was more appropriate.

[NeilMcD]

Yeah I think Kerr certainly did have a weak pool of players, the players we had for the qualifiers for 2004 were very weak.

[citizenerased]

Stan was one of the worst ireland managers of all time, a hapless idiot with no charisma or tactical nouse.

The fans booed him and rightly so under his almost comical tenure we manged to achieve 3 of the worst results in Irish international football history San marino, and Cyprus twice..not to mention the 4-0 capitulation to holland at home(granted it was a friendly, but worst home defeat in 70 odd years).

Do you think despite these horrendus results he should be exempt from media criticism? If I was on 400,000 grand a year, id be big and bold enough tio take it on the chin..!

I think everyone agrees the kermit thing was a disgrace..

[Morbo]

McCarthy was booed off in his last match in charge fella.

True that was an utter disgrace, the fans(I use the term loosely) who booed Mick deserved the Staunton era, not all of us wanted Mick gone though, I certainly didn't and was ****ed when all the Roy Keane sheep got their way

[Stuttgart88]

I wasn't too sad to see Mick go. I liked him but he himself had hinted that a club job was preferable at that stage and was happy for his name to be linked. Booing him was the act of total eejits and morons though. In many ways we've turned into England-lite, or certainly some amongst us have.

[citizenerased]

Mick deserved to get axed for a multitud of reasons two bad defeats in first two games..he had lost the team after the world cup..sabotaging our world cup campaign..his position was untenable...

The fans got behind the team all the way, I remember being at the czech game after the cyprus trashing, the support was unbelievable. Big difference between booing during and after the game!!

Anyway lads, stan is a big boy, if he cant handle booing he is in the wrong industry..

Sure Jebus what do you care if we boo or not, you said you dont care about Ireland anyway, you are more interested in 37 young boys in limerick.

[tetsujin1979]

Mick deserved to get axed for a multitud of reasons two bad defeats in first two games..he had lost the team after the world cup..sabotaging our world cup campaign..his position was untenable
I don't think he had lost the team, 4 months previous to the Swiss game, they were a penalty shoot out away from the last 8 in the World Cup. He had split the fans though, after the performance against Switzerland at home and the booing off the pitch it was always going to be difficult to stay on .


The fans got behind the team all the way, I remember being at the czech game after the cyprus trashing, the support was unbelievable. Big difference between booing during and after the game!!I was there too, there was a strange atmosphere before the game. Hard to describe. Almost angry. There was a big backlash against all the negativity in the press, the muppet pictures, etc and after the encouraging performance on the pitch, there was just a massive release.

[eirebhoy]

One thing that surprised me about Kerr was that despite having made his name with young players he never really trusted young players in his senior teams. He was very conservative in his selection. I know you can rattle off the number of players who made their debut under Kerr but I think this disguises the reality.

That said, it's a manager's prerogative to decide whether a young player is good enough and maybe he got it right. Staunton seemed to think that anyone in his late 20s was too old and that playing promising kids before they'd even forged a meaningful club career was more appropriate.
Typical EB has them on file. Andy Reid, Liam Miller, Alan Lee, Alan Quinn, Paddy Kenny, Martin Rowlands, Aiden McGeady, Stephen Elliot, Jon Douglas, Clive Clarke, Joe Murphy, John Thompson, Jason Byrne, Michael Doyle and the one and only Jon Macken. Off the top of my head Paddy McCarthy, Graham Stack and Kevin Doyle got their first callups under Kerr but they were only breaking through at that stage.

Joey O'Brien had started 1 game for Bolton by the time of Kerr's last game. Stephen Ireland had started 2 for City. Wayne Henderson had just started his loan spell at Brighton. Stephen Kelly had a bit of experience by then and maybe could have got a call up.