Common Travel Area

[Thunderblaster]

What's your thoughts on the proposed ending of the Common Travel Area between Ireland and Britain next year by the British government? Discuss. I mentioned it to a mate here in Liverpool last night and he never heard a thing about it.

[OneRedArmy]

I thought the reason Ireland was staying out of the widened Schengen Area was because the British don't want in and therefore the CTA has to be maintained?

I don't understand how the CTA can be ended without a border being re-established between the North and South? How ironic that that would happen now, given the current political climate.

[Block G Raptor]

How ironic that that would happen now, given the current political climate.

Not just Ironic but down right dangerous, there is plenty of hardliners up there who "Haven't gone away you know" who'd be pretty pee'd off if this where to happen and god knows what they'd be capable of.

[Thunderblaster]

On 24 October 2007 it was reported that the UK intended to introduce passport checks between Britain and Ireland from 2009 onwards, as part of a proposed electronic border control system, thus putting the future of the Common Travel Area in doubt.[23][24] It is not clear how this will affect the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands, or Northern Ireland. The Irish Minister of Justice, Brian Lenihan has said that he believes the Travel Area may in fact be strengthened as the result the adoption of electronic border control system in both countries.[25] The Irish Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, assured Dáil Éireann that there are no plans to introduce passport controls on the land border between the Republic and Northern Ireland.[26] Reaction from Unionists in Northern Ireland was angry. Jim Allister, a former Democratic Unionist and Member of the European Parliament told The Times that it would be "intolerable and preposterous if citizens of the UK had to present a passport to enter another part of the UK".[23]

Found this posted on Wikipedia.

[anto1208]

I dont see the problem if im travelling to the UK i bring my passport anyway .

[OneRedArmy]

The most sensible option would be to agree common standards and implement them where ID checks are already required, ie for crossing the Irish sea by air or boat, whether it be from Northern or Republic of Ireland. Unfortunately due to the perceived "united Ireland" vibes this gives off this is unacceptable to many northern Unionists.

Yet again, its case of principal over substance.

[BohsPartisan]

Its unenforceable given how easy it is to travel up north with the motorway and all that. I mean I shop in Sainsbury's in Newry once a month.

[Thunderblaster]

I dont see the problem if im travelling to the UK i bring my passport anyway .

We all need ID to fly over anyway.

[Bluebeard]

We all need ID to fly over anyway.

I am regularly "randomly" stopped at the ferry ports on the Welsh side and my passport is required in such situations. CTA my @rse.

[OneRedArmy]

I am regularly "randomly" stopped at the ferry ports on the Welsh side and my passport is required in such situations. CTA my @rse.
Technically incorrect. Official ID is required. Passport is not the only form of acceptable official ID.

But agree in practice its no real difference other than for non-passport holders.

[superfrank]

I'm not too sure of the differences between the CTA and the Schengen Agreement but I know that I've crossed borders on mainland Europe without being stopped for ID. I went from Germany to France along the motorway and we weren't stopped. I went from Germany to Austria on a train and again we weren't asked for passports, so why isn't this adopted for travelling to the UK?

If you fly or sail to any country you need a passport anyway, so it wouldn't be hard to bring your passport to the UK everytime you go.

[Block G Raptor]

If you fly or sail to any country you need a passport anyway, so it wouldn't be hard to bring your passport to the UK everytime you go.

Unless of course your driving across the border which I think is the real sticking point here

[OneRedArmy]

I'm not too sure of the differences between the CTA and the Schengen Agreement but I know that I've crossed borders on mainland Europe without being stopped for idea. I went from Germany to France along the motorway and we weren't stopped. I went from Germany to Austria on a train and again we weren't asked for passports, so why isn't this adopted for travelling to the UK?

If you fly or sail to any country you need a passport anyway, so it wouldn't be hard to bring your passport to the UK everytime you go.This is where it gets somewhat complicated.

Schengen is effectively a CTA for mainland Europe and the EEA. But many of these nations require you to carry official national ID cards at all times anyway regardless of where you are, so it isn't true to say you don't need to carry ID.

As Block G Raptor says, it is, in practice, the same here. You are not checked on the land border between UK (N.I.) and Ireland. Airports and ferries require you to have ID for their own security reasons (nothing to do with the CTA, you need to carry this on a flight between Manchester and London for example), but, and I stand to be corrected, if you sailed your own yacht between Ireland and Britain, you wouldn't need to carry ID (yachting ID maybe?).

[superfrank]

Like I said, from my own experiences I've never been stopped for ID crossing borders on land in Europe, this includes driving from Germany into France and back again without being stopped for ID.

That is the main hypothetical problem for people on this island, yet it doesn't appear to be a problem on the mainland.

So why isn't the Schengen Agreement put into effect here if it's just a small matter of carrying your ID with you even though you mightn't be asked to show it?

[noby]

Some people don't see carrying id with you as a small matter, I guess.


if you sailed your own yacht between Ireland and Britain, you wouldn't need to carry ID (yachting ID maybe?).

Strictly speaking I don't /think/ so, but these days you're more likely to be asked to show id, and the boat's paperwork.

[OneRedArmy]

So why isn't the Schengen Agreement put into effect here if it's just a small matter of carrying your ID with you even though you mightn't be asked to show it?Because the Brits don't trust them Yuropeuns (innit) and the flipside of having no borders inside Schengen countries is that you are required to have very strict controls around the Schengen area perimeter. Were Ireland to go in without the UK the border between North and South would have to be re-established.

[SÓC]

Well tbh I can see why they want to tighten up arrangements.

At the moment its a farce, you can travel between Ireland and Wales by plane using a student card with a blurry picture under a different name to that which you booked the flight under. Done it too many times!

Last night I landed in Bristol off a Ryanair flight, I was first off the plane. Handling staff ask me where have we come from? Germany (Ryanair dont fly to Germany from Bristol, Easyjet do!)? I say no Ireland and with that he guides use through the "domestic" path where there are no passports/ids required. High security indeed

[KevB76]

if you sailed your own yacht between Ireland and Britain, you wouldn't need to carry ID

I'd suggest your typical person sailing their own boat between the countries would rather not be identified :D

[GavinZac]

using a student card with a blurry picture under a different name to that which you booked the flight under. Done it too many times!
Which name does your ID use, JC? :D

[noby]

I'd suggest your typical person sailing their own boat between the countries would rather not be identified :D
I don't follow.

[sullanefc]

I don't follow.

Drug trafficking(sp?) maybe. As well as that, how do they know where the boat came from? You could be a refugee for all they know, so I'm sure ID would be required in that situation.

[noby]

That's what I assumed, but they're hardly your typical person.

[KevB76]

I don't follow.

thats probably the way a lot of drugs get into the country

[noby]

thats probably the way a lot of drugs get into the country
So I'll repeat, that's hardly 'your typical person sailing their own boat between the countries'.

[KevB76]

That's what I assumed, but they're hardly your typical person.


I meant your typical person who would be using a private boat to go between the countries, not your typical person out of everybody.

Its only drug-smugglers or the extremely rich who would typically be making their own way across the sea.

[noby]

Look, I don't want to drag this thread any more off topic. Neither of us have statistics to back up our claims. So let's just say I disagree with your post, and leave it at that.

[KevB76]

Look, I don't want to drag this thread any more off topic. Neither of us have statistics to back up our claims. So let's just say I disagree with your post, and leave it at that.

Grand.

By the way, are you one of these wealthy people with your own yacht ?

Sorry if my little joke offended you ;) :)

[noby]

I own a boat (I'm neither wealthy enough, or vain enough, or it's not big enough, to call it a yacht). I'm not offended, but I do know a lot of average Joes, and Jos, who would be nowhere near any 'extremely rich' category who regularly sail to the UK and beyond.

*thinks* Mmm, perhaps they are all drug runners.

[onceahoop]

May I heard it wrong, but will Northern Ireland residents have to produce I.D. when landing on the "mainland".

Thought I heard a few Unionists getting exercised about it