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sonofstan
22/12/2007, 9:45 PM
Best Derry could do would be 4th/5th and it would be stupid for us to be throwing money away trying to compete with Drogheda.

Just over 12 months ago you finished second for the second year in a row; Drogs were richer than you both times, and you finished ahead of them, first time you finished ahead of Shels with their limitless bucket of (not real) cash - the gap between the haves and have nots isn't that wide yet.
Aaron
22/12/2007, 10:07 PM
It all depends on who comes in next season. I think if Kenny takes over he will get the team fit and playing good football again, and if reports of him looking to bring in 7 are true then I cant see why we cannot challenge
GavinZac
22/12/2007, 10:10 PM
It all depends on who comes in next season. I think if Kenny takes over he will get the team fit and playing good football again, and if reports of him looking to bring in 7 are true then I cant see why we cannot challenge

Where are those 7 coming from? are they the same 7 mathews and fenlon will be looking for?
Erstwhile Bóz
22/12/2007, 10:31 PM
Cautiously optimistic.

I'd say Heary is yopping his cacks.
lofty9
22/12/2007, 10:31 PM
Pat Fenlon could not attract the players he actually wanted to , at The Brandywell. As Estate Agents are wont to say, '' location , location, location''. Because it is expected that players who line out for The Candystripes, will live in the area and the frozen Northwest just didn't appeal to a lot of players that Pat had on his wish list.

Also another aspect is , in order to do well at Finn Harps, Derry City or any Irish League club for that matter, and not be from the area, you need to understand the mindset. I had three grandparents who were either born or raised North of the border so I speak from personal experience on this issue. Fenlon never came to terms with that principle and didn't succeed largely for that reason. Stephen Kenny seemed to have cracked that particular nut and was much more successful as a result.

Agreed. But he got rid of players ie Holmes, O Flynn, Delaney, McChrystal (players of the mindset that you argue) and spent a lot of money on replacing with duds on large signing on fees and wages (who he told to kick the ball as long as possible)
Aaron
22/12/2007, 10:43 PM
Where are those 7 coming from? are they the same 7 mathews and fenlon will be looking for?

What do you mean same 7 Matthews and Fenlon are after? Kenny wants assurances that if he comes he will have money to spend and wants to bring in 7 players as well as letting 5 senior players go. No names mentioned but he obviously feels that it will take 7 to bring the squad up to scratch
NeilMcD
22/12/2007, 10:44 PM
Cautiously optimistic.

I'd say Heary is yopping his cacks.

Yeah I would feel the same. Feel he is a bit improvement on Connor but that is not saying much. Walter Mitty and David Brent are words that my mother said to me when she heard about the sacking of Connor and she does not even read the Bohs messageboard. The football should be better anyway.
bennocelt
23/12/2007, 8:32 AM
Agree with Stu here, cant believe that Bohs gane Fenlon the job.
Can count Bohs out of the league so for next season. Can we bring up this thread when fenlon does crap, as im am 100% confident in that he wont win anything (well maybe the league cup!)
Cosmo
23/12/2007, 9:37 AM
we have the money. however, our general manager appears intent on staying under the 65% wage cap.

Do you actually believe that? :D


Btw great appointment for bohs!
Poor Student
23/12/2007, 9:45 AM
You learn from your experiences and I think his European experience will help Bohs in their Intertoto run.

While the results got better I don't feel Fenlon ever improved or adapted as a tactician. I think with his relationship with Heary he could restore a feel good factor in Bohs thatmay get him off to a good start but like Pineapple I don't rate him as that great a manager. The three clubs in the money at the moment all have managers who I wouldn't rate very highly and I doubt could win the league except for having a monumental budget.
GavinZac
23/12/2007, 10:53 AM
Do you actually believe that? :Dwhich part? that we have the money? well we're building a gym and laundry room in bishopstown even though we dont own it and are only there for another year. i think we have the money.

aidan tynan has been the one organising all these meetings between the pro clubs about what to do about the 65% cap. if he was going to ignore it, he'd keep his head down, like that property dealer of yours.
Port Saint
23/12/2007, 1:37 PM
I really couldn't see any other appointment for Bohes.

Regardless of which side you argue I think we'll know by the time he's finished with Bohes, whether that's one year or ten years from now.

The real question is how much do Bohes believe in Fenlon?
Will they throw cash at him or let him build gradually like Drogheda did?

With Rovers coming back to the land of the living Cork Derry Bohes and Pats coming into the equation next year is building up quite nicely.
Cosmo
23/12/2007, 1:50 PM
aidan tynan has been the one organising all these meetings between the pro clubs about what to do about the 65% cap. if he was going to ignore it, he'd keep his head down, like that property dealer of yours.

Cork, like drogheda and pats among others, will be looking at ways to get around the cap as theres no way they'll meet it so to say cork are intent on staying below it is quote laughable really :D - intent on getting around it like all the other clubs though
Aaron
23/12/2007, 1:55 PM
From Aertel, and courtesy of Davy on DCC:D:D

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2156/a1xx1.jpg
GavinZac
23/12/2007, 3:21 PM
Cork, like drogheda and pats among others, will be looking at ways to get around the cap as theres no way they'll meet it so to say cork are intent on staying below it is quote laughable really :D - intent on getting around it like all the other clubs though
Aidan tynan left his last job due to going public about rule breaking and corruption. If they can't meet the cap they will probably be at the forefront of the professional clubs in trying to match it. Will that mean a lack of success? Probably in the very short term.
BohsPartisan
23/12/2007, 5:46 PM
He bought the players because he's a chequebook manager, and that's how he manages. With better players, obviously he got (slightly) better results. A good manager would improve the current players; Fenlon just bought in more. You're continuing to ignore the fact that he won't have anything near the same budget at Bohs as at Shels, which is a very important factor.

Bohs won't go far in the InterToto. They'll get through one round at best (easy draws pending, obviously)

We've already got the bones of a very good squad. Best defence in the league. Best keeper in the league. Very good midfield. Need to improve up front. He'll have the money to bring in another few players. Fenlon has won 3 league titles. He knows how to be a success. So it didn't work out for him in Derry, It didn't work out for Kenny in Scotland either. Name me a manager out of what was available to us that is better than Fenlon.
pineapple stu
23/12/2007, 6:01 PM
Rico. Matthews. Both have won leagues and/or Cups spending a fraction (less than half, I'd say) of what Fenlon spent to win his leagues.
Martinho II
23/12/2007, 8:23 PM
if bohs are to win the title they will need to get into glenn crowes head. he has a very poor season for them. im pretty sure that owen heary will be delighted to see his old gaffer back. I cant see bohs challenging drogs for the title next year it will be pats again and maybe cork city as well.
Rossi
23/12/2007, 11:58 PM
We've already got the bones of a very good squad. Best defence in the league. Best keeper in the league. Very good midfield. Need to improve up front. He'll have the money to bring in another few players. Fenlon has won 3 league titles. He knows how to be a success. So it didn't work out for him in Derry, It didn't work out for Kenny in Scotland either. Name me a manager out of what was available to us that is better than Fenlon.

Sorry drogs have the best defence by a mile as proven with the team of the year.Drogs have possibly best foreward line too in Zayed,Bates and Fabio.
sonofstan
24/12/2007, 12:26 AM
Sorry drogs have the best defence by a mile as proven with the team of the year.Drogs have possibly best foreward line too in Zayed,Bates and Fabio.

Your 'best defence' let in 7 more goals than ours - tell me how you measure the worth of a defence?
Réiteoir
24/12/2007, 12:39 AM
Your 'best defence' let in 7 more goals than ours - tell me how you measure the worth of a defence?

from what i can gather here stan - rubber awards > actual goals conceded figures.

Where was this top class defence when we rolled them over in the FAI Cup this season? :D
CollegeTillIDie
26/12/2007, 8:53 AM
The less goals you concede the better your defence. End of.....
GavinZac
26/12/2007, 9:42 AM
The less goals you concede the better your defence. End of.....

Its not that black and white, nothing in football is. Suppose a great defence has no protection from midfield, or an atrocious goalkeeper behind them? Everybody has blamed our loss of alan bennett for our turn around from best defence to worst amongst the top clubs - at the same time that mick devine was gonig through the worst form of his career. Or suppose the figures are bent by one particular game where nothing on the pitch was working, again using a Cork City example where Rovers put 4 past us.
CharlesThompson
26/12/2007, 11:41 AM
Its not that black and white, nothing in football is. Suppose a great defence has no protection from midfield, or an atrocious goalkeeper behind them? Everybody has blamed our loss of alan bennett for our turn around from best defence to worst amongst the top clubs - at the same time that mick devine was gonig through the worst form of his career. Or suppose the figures are bent by one particular game where nothing on the pitch was working, again using a Cork City example where Rovers put 4 past us.

Look, that's like saying that for instance Pat's played much better football than Drogheda last year and beat them two of the three matches in the league but lost by a point because in one match three players were sent off and they were beaten by a last minute o.g. to Waterford at home, therefore Pats are a better team than Drogheda, despite the fact that Drogheda won the league. Ridiculous.

Bohs conceded less goals than any other team in the league last season, QED Bohs had the best defense last year. Don't get me wrong, I'd say that the Drogheda supporters aren't exactly cacking themselves they didn't win the 'best defence' record over the league Champions title. Of course, if they'd like to swap I think we could come to some arrangement.
GavinZac
26/12/2007, 12:06 PM
Look, that's like saying that for instance Pat's played much better football than Drogheda last year and beat them two of the three matches in the league but lost by a point because in one match three players were sent off and they were beaten by a last minute o.g. to Waterford at home, therefore Pats are a better team than Drogheda, despite the fact that Drogheda won the league. Ridiculous.What? How is that, in any way, like what I said? If 'best' is simply measured by how many goals you concede over a season, sure, Bohs had the 'best' defence. However, does that mean that Drogs would swap their back four for yours? Your unadventurous football and your strong midfield probably had more to do with it than the particular combination of centre and full backs.


Bohs conceded less goals than any other team in the league last season, QED Bohs had the best defense last year. Don't get me wrong, I'd say that the Drogheda supporters aren't exactly cacking themselves they didn't win the 'best defence' record over the league Champions title. Of course, if they'd like to swap I think we could come to some arrangement.They probably won't care that you won a 'least goals conceded' record, but they might object to your claim to having the best defence.
osarusan
26/12/2007, 1:41 PM
What would the criteria be for deciding "the best defence"? I agree with GavinZac that goals conceded alone isn't enough to call it, but what other tangible criteria are there?
superfrank
26/12/2007, 3:19 PM
Least goals conceded AND most clean sheets, pehaps?
sonofstan
26/12/2007, 7:43 PM
Least goals conceded AND most clean sheets, pehaps?

Which I think we win as well.
GavinZac
27/12/2007, 12:04 AM
What would the criteria be for deciding "the best defence"? I agree with GavinZac that goals conceded alone isn't enough to call it, but what other tangible criteria are there?

I don't even optastats-depth rankings would cover it. It simply isn't tangible, it isn't black and white. Nothing in football is. Eventually, a consensus comes together and people agree and move on. After all, more people state Maradona as the greatest player ever, despite that other south american guy with the best statistical record.

In this case also, a team-of-the-year voted in would probably be the best consensus available; I gather that Drogs outperformed Bohs in this field.
BohsPartisan
27/12/2007, 10:12 AM
In this case also, a team-of-the-year voted in would probably be the best consensus available; I gather that Drogs outperformed Bohs in this field.

Well lets compromise and call us the meanest defence (which I would classify as best at defending thus doing the job of conceding less goals but if you want to apply some metaphysical criteria go ahead)
GavinZac
27/12/2007, 2:00 PM
Well lets compromise and call us the meanest defence (which I would classify as best at defending thus doing the job of conceding less goals but if you want to apply some metaphysical criteria go ahead)

Metaphysical? If anything, your anti-football last season was very physical.
sonofstan
27/12/2007, 4:06 PM
Interview with Fenlon ( http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BOHSTV)
CharlesThompson
27/12/2007, 7:00 PM
What? How is that, in any way, like what I said? If 'best' is simply measured by how many goals you concede over a season, sure, Bohs had the 'best' defence. However, does that mean that Drogs would swap their back four for yours? Your unadventurous football and your strong midfield probably had more to do with it than the particular combination of centre and full backs.

That's probably why Drogheda would be considered a better overall side than Bohs, of course coupled with the league trophy that is. So Bohs defense is better than Drogheda's, well Drogheda simply didn't need the best defense in the country to win the league. The sum of their parts made up for the "lack of quality" in their defending whereas Bohs obviously need to add more to the overall game to bridge the gap next season.

It's not rocket science, but the best defence in the league is the one who conceded the least amount of goals. No amount of verbal games (diarrhoea) is going to change that. It's as simple as the statistic.


They probably won't care that you won a 'least goals conceded' record, but they might object to your claim to having the best defence.

I doubt it GZ. I doubt they give as much a toss as you seem to for some bizarre reason.
:rolleyes:
GavinZac
27/12/2007, 7:03 PM
I doubt it GZ. I doubt they give as much a toss as you seem to for some bizarre reason. :rolleyes:Oh yes, I'm positively fraught about this. The internet is serious business.
BohsPartisan
27/12/2007, 7:23 PM
The internet is serious business.
Apparently
blutil
30/12/2007, 7:21 PM
was this done on purpose ?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/fogra/bohs.gif

from http://www.bohemians.ie/index.php/club-news/nutsy-press-conference.htm
sonofstan
30/12/2007, 8:25 PM
was this done on purpose ?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/fogra/bohs.gif

from http://www.bohemians.ie/index.php/club-news/nutsy-press-conference.htm

even stranger - float your cursor over picture of PF holding up the scarf and see what title comes up!

edit - and the other one as well!
Erstwhile Bóz
30/12/2007, 10:12 PM
even stranger - float your cursor over picture of PF holding up the scarf and see what title comes up!

edit - and the other one as well!
Haha! That's brilliant.
CollegeTillIDie
31/12/2007, 7:07 AM
To get on to the initial issue with this thread about who has the best defense, I would ask what was the last team to win something with a sh1t defence? You'll be racking your brains trying to think of one.

France won the 1998 World Cup without a decent striker however!
cestlavie
02/01/2008, 1:13 AM
Fair play to Pat, there was alot of muppets at Derry who tried to make your life hell, as you where not "Derry through and through" Some people who had got too big for there own boots, best of luck but f**k the bohs!:ball::D
pól-dcfc
02/01/2008, 1:58 AM
It didn't exactly help that he turned a title challenging team into a mid-table side, did it?
OneRedArmy
02/01/2008, 8:01 AM
Fenlon didn't win the Derry crowd over because he played boring, unattractive football. Same as Keely.
dortie
02/01/2008, 9:12 AM
Fair play to Pat, there was alot of muppets at Derry who tried to make your life hell, as you where not "Derry through and through" Some people who had got too big for there own boots, best of luck but f**k the bohs!:ball::D


Sorry to burst your bubble/theory, Fenlon was incompetent from his formations to choice of players, not to mention bringing in utter crap and releasing perfectly good players.

Oh, forgot, watching Derry during the Fenlon era was painful.
Erstwhile Bóz
02/01/2008, 9:38 AM
Oh, forgot, watching Derry during the Fenlon era was painful.
:D Only 'painful'? Woohoo! Looking forward to it immensely.
onceahoop
02/01/2008, 9:26 PM
Fenlon didn't win the Derry crowd over because he played boring, unattractive football. Same as Keely.

Allegedly, Keely told people that the first day that he walked into the Derry dressing room he knew that he'd made a big mistake.

Some big egos in Derry. Allegedly.
Aaron
02/01/2008, 9:59 PM
Allegedly, Keely told people that the first day that he walked into the Derry dressing room he knew that he'd made a big mistake.

Some big egos in Derry. Allegedly.

Funny how some managers can manage those "big egos" and others cant. I'd rather put it down to the fact that he bought tits, and played ****e football. No wins in his time, that has nothing to do with ego's IMO.
fanatic
02/01/2008, 10:03 PM
Funny how some managers can manage those "big egos" and others cant. I'd rather put it down to the fact that he bought tits, and played ****e football. No wins in his time, that has nothing to do with ego's IMO.

and how he signed such amazing talent that just kicked the ball as far as they could, let me introduce.........Robbie Hedderman ( 1 of many i might add )
Aaron
02/01/2008, 10:42 PM
and how he signed such amazing talent that just kicked the ball as far as they could, let me introduce.........Robbie Hedderman ( 1 of many i might add )

And Gordon Simms, dear lord they were brutal!!!