Laptop Recommendations

[dcfcsteve]

I want to buy a new laptop.

I spoke to Dell, and my head was left spinning.

I like their XPS, but it's getting a bit daft when it costs you £670, and then they want another £100 to put the feckin software on it. Then you can't have Outlook and Powerpoint together, as they're different packages....!

Anyone able to recommend a good laptop ?

[Sligo Hornet]

Spearmint Rhinos...:D

[Block G Raptor]

The Dell Latitude Series are class. I use a Latitude D620 in work. No Idea of the cost

[Magicme]

My brother recently bought the XPS and its a brill little yoke. When I start making millions at my new Job am gonna treat myself!

[dcfc_1928]

Steve

I have an Acer Travelmate laptop. I found their range to be very good.

Also have a look at this crowd, their laptops are getting rave reviews at the moment:

http://www.rockdirect.com/

[paul_oshea]

ill install every single piece of software ye want for £75 :)

Ill also install vista for ye in that too! ;)

[Ash]

For every good deed ....


ill install every single piece of software ye want for £75 :)

Theres a bad deed ...


Ill also install vista for ye in that too! ;)

:D

[GavinZac]

Get a dell vostro, they are phenomenal value. Dont pay for MS's rubbish software, openoffice and thunderbird are better anyway.

[willymccann]

Steve, I'd go with the Dell's as well, we use them in work and no hassles.

It depends what your after it for, for what model to go with, it work, I'd go along with the Latitudes as well, we use the D630's now.

In regards to Office, your can get PowerPoint and Outlook in the MS Office Small Business Edition.

[jmurphyc]

Don't get a Toshiba. I got one and it's useless (despite being very pricey). I would have thought Dell would be best. Also, although macs are difficult to navigate once you get used to them they're meant to be excellent and they don't get viruses (I think it's a Microsoft conspiracy).

[Block G Raptor]

macs are difficult to navigate once you get used to them they're meant to be excellent and they don't get viruses (I think it's a Microsoft conspiracy).

Don't be going around saying things like that. MAC OSX is the easiest operating system ive ever used and MAC's do get viruses just not as many as most are written in a language that is only PC relevant

[jmurphyc]

Don't be going around saying things like that. MAC OSX is the easiest operating system ive ever used and MAC's do get viruses just not as many as most are written in a language that is only PC relevant

My mistake. Just going by what I was told by a good few people.

[Block G Raptor]

My mistake. Just going by what I was told by a good few people.

No Bother just wouldn't want steve dishing out a few grand on a MACbook and a course to learn how to use it only for it to die after a week cause he'd no anti-virus software installed

[paul_oshea]

that is only PC relevant

ha?! .

[lofty9]

Just get a mac. So easy to use. Never had a virus and never slows up. Its great. If your at work all day on a PC its great to look at something different. Only downside is you cant seem to watch online footie. But that's what I use the crappy fujitsu siemans desktop for.

[endabob1]

Mac. Only way to go

[OneRedArmy]

Mac. Only way to goConcur. And now with Intel based Macs and Bootcamp you can run dual OS's if you feel the need.

I wouldn't go back to PC after 3 years of Mac. Also, the Macbook and Pro are seriously nice pieces of kit.

Although seeing Steve's recently updated user status, maybe he doesn't need the new laptop for a while :p

[SÓC]

Should one take Vista or opt for XP? Dell are giving the choice

[tetsujin1979]

In regards to Office, your can get PowerPoint and Outlook in the MS Office Small Business Edition.
go with openoffice - http://www.openoffice.org - offers everything that Office has, except an email client, and it's free.


Should one take Vista or opt for XP? Dell are giving the choice
Go with XP, my dad bought a new Acer laptop lately with Vista installed, 3 weeks later he downgraded it to XP and there was an immediate speed increase. Vista is an awful resource hog.

[MojoPin]

no other option but a mac......

[Troy.McClure]

I've gone Mac and Im not going back!

[GavinZac]

I cant believe so many people are recommending macs - buy an overpriced system running on underpowered hardware and suffer all the incompatibility problems as if you just installed linux?

I've been using ubuntu for nearly a year now, and I've never used anti-virus. Rather than using some 3rd party software that bloats up and uses memory, I just install the update that comes any time a security hole is found - there is a reason most web servers run on linux.

[OneRedArmy]

I cant believe so many people are recommending macs - buy an overpriced system running on underpowered hardware and suffer all the incompatibility problems as if you just installed linux?Overpriced I'll give you, they are still pricey but you pay for the look, but underpowered? No point comparing clock speed with a PC, its apples and oranges.

Also, incompatibility? What incompatibility?

Have you ever owned one? Bear in mind most of the above Mac recommenders have owned PCs in the past (myself included) so we have a basis for comparison.

Fine, you like being different (umbongo?) but come back with real comparisons!

[GavinZac]

Overpriced I'll give you, they are still pricey but you pay for the look, but underpowered? No point comparing clock speed with a PC, its apples and oranges.Underpowered, for what you're paying. They're 2 sides of the same coin really. Pay for the look? Pay hundreds extra for some white plastic casing? really? People buy Mac for the same reason they pay over the odds for an iPod over a generic mp3 player: brand loyalty and buying into a way of feeling good about themselves. Personally I prefer to get what I pay for in terms of components rather than whatever Steve Job's turtleneck has blessed.


Also, incompatibility? What incompatibility?Mac has the unique position of not being able to run windows applications (which both linux and, unsurprisingly, windows can) and not having the support of an open source developer community working for it.


Have you ever owned one? Bear in mind most of the above Mac recommenders have owned PCs in the past (myself included) so we have a basis for comparison.I've used every type of computer, from an Amstrad to Alienware, from Unix to Vista. In college I'm one of the few people who knew how to turn on the Mac in the corner so got to skip the queue for public internet pc's. If anything, not having wasted my money on one means I dont feel the need to defend it.


Fine, you like being different (umbongo?) but come back with real comparisons!
Ok.

Cost:
............................. Windows Vista $80, OSX $129, Ubuntu $0
% Compatible s/w:
.....................................90%, 5%, 30%
Current time to boot on this laptop:
....................................2 mins, Doesnt Boot, 45 seconds (inc 3D desktop, optional)
Security:
...................................Poor, Obscure, Unparalleled.
Time to fix holes/bugs:
...............................2 years per service pack & tuesday patches, 2 years per OS release and random updates, 2-3 days on average, 6 month release cycle.
Bootable from CD:
.................................No, No, Yes
Privacy:
.....................................DRM riddled & poor deletion, Good, Good
Open Source support:
.................................Ok, Non existant, Integral


You say I can't make comparisons then make yourself look ignorant by mocking the name of the most installed operating system (non OEM) this year. Well done.

[pete]

Should one take Vista or opt for XP? Dell are giving the choice

I am still on XP & no plans to change. Hearing a lot of bad things about Vista & some people at work who have Vista have enabled the which back to XP Classic because of Vista pain. Seems 2GB is minimum RAM for Vista. Maybe will be better after SP1...

Dell quality not so great but can't be beaten on price. Then again I have one for over 2 years without problems.

[OneRedArmy]

Mac has the unique position of not being able to run windows applications Bootcamp?

Also, in the last 3 years a huge array of apps have had Mac releases. Its reasonably rare now that I either can't get a Mac version of software or there's some kind of Mac clone.

You're obviously a fairly specialised user, but for the vast majority of normal home or small business users a Mac is easier, quicker and more intuitive and reliable than a PC.

[GavinZac]

Bootcamp? Bootcamp is just dual booting, i.e, you need to own and install a copy of windows XP ASWELL as your mac, and then restart the computer any time you want to use a different system's programs. Aswell has having supported that for nigh on a decade, linux has 2 nice little tools called Wine and DOSBox - at first I was using it for any program I missed from windows, but having found free (in all senses of the word) alternatives, I've narrowed it down to games like Half Life 2 for which there are no equivalents, on Linux OR Mac.


Also, in the last 3 years a huge array of apps have had Mac releases. Its reasonably rare now that I either can't get a Mac version of software or there's some kind of Mac clone.

You're obviously a fairly specialised user, but for the vast majority of normal home or small business users a Mac is easier, quicker and more intuitive and reliable than a PC.I'd love to see some qualification for that. After all, if the vast majority of normal home or small business users would have such an advantage on the mac, why does it enjoy such a tiny, tiny minority? At least Linux has the excuse of being new to the desktop and not having a mega-corp pushing it on people. Macs, in some ways, introduced the desktop 25 years ago - before plummeting and being in the words of Michael Dell only fit for "wrapping things up and giving the cash back to stockholders" pre-iPod. They're enjoying something of an Indian summer with the brand recognition that has given them, and yet they're unable to break the 5% of home users ceiling and even that is having conceded some pricing, selling Microsoft software and using Intel chips. Right now, its just a white label branded version of BSD.

[OneRedArmy]

Gavin you strike me as the kind of person who deserted Linux when it became too mainstream and "sold out". Thats fair enough. There are always people who want to be on the cutting edge.

Most users don't push the boundaries with their computer and I think the fact that all the Mac owners in this thread so far aren't going back to PCs is telling.

Yes Apple are as much a marketing machine as anyone else, but their products work very well for the target audience.

Horses for courses etc.

[GavinZac]

Most users don't push the boundaries with their computer and I think the fact that all the Mac owners in this thread so far aren't going back to PCs is telling.

Yes Apple are as much a marketing machine as anyone else, but their products work very well for the target audience.

Horses for courses etc.
I agree that the average bebo, ebay and word processing user will probably have far less hassle and problems if they used a Mac over Windows Vista. Mind you, the same would be true of Windows 2000.

What annoys me is the over-pricing. If you're getting a computer that will just do the very basics well, why pay so much over the odds? Its like people are paying extra for less complexity.

That wont last long, and the advent of Linux machines being sold in places like Walmart for as low as $150, like these recent ubuntu machines (http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/11/02/download-gos-the-operating-system-of-wal-marts-199-pc/) which go as far as to build the internet services people want right into the desktop.

In fact, I challenge anyone, using a PC or indeed a Mac, to download gOSp (http://www.thinkgos.com/) or its daddy version, Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com), burn them to a CD, pop it in the drive and reboot. Check out how well the LiveCD works, and then realise the entire OS is running from the cd drive and would be 10 times better from hard drive.

Works fine? Does the job? Perfect for someone just looking for everyday use? and free - What have people been paying hundreds of euros for?!

[kingdom hoop]

Aren't Macs better at running multiple programs, and have some more tailored programs for music and videos, so more film director people and the likes use them? Maybe that's just the PowerMacs. I only say as a friend of mine is into film-making and said that to me!

Personally, I've now had a Dell laptop for over 4 years. A fantastic testament to my fathering skills. :p

Actually, just thought of it that nearly all DJ's that use computers when DJing use Apples. Gav?!

[GavinZac]

Aren't Macs better at running multiple programser, no. "running multiple programs" is determined by the factors of available RAM and multi-threading for processors. Mac would actually be the weakest on this front - there is a reason why servers (computers dedicated to running multiple users aswell as multiple programs) are usually Linux based and sometimes Windows based but never Mac based.

and have some more tailored programs for music and videos, so more film director people and the likes use them? Maybe that's just the PowerMacs. I only say as a friend of mine is into film-making and said that to me!There is a product available for Mac called iMovie which is pretty much the same as Windows Movie Maker - drag and drop clips, etc. This isn't free, however. Very much also non-free is Final Cut Pro which is of course a very good (and very expensive) product and would be fairly popular along with the multi-platform Adobe Premiere. As for having more of these tailored programs, that of course simply isnt true as anyone attempting to create such a program for Mac has to not only contend with the tiny market but also with the existence of the heavy-weights listed above. The plethora of products available for Windows and Linux (for different reasons - one being the most profitable market, the other for being the quickest to develop on) including an entire free "studio" operating system (http://ubuntustudio.org/) included some very good products but Final Cut Pro would be recognised as the best. However, it would want to be when priced at $1,300 and it would be irrelevant to all but the most dedicated of film students/real world dodgers.

Actually, just thought of it that nearly all DJ's that use computers when DJing use Apples. Gav?!I havent observed that but then I tend to avoid DJs. I cant imagine any reason for that other than to flash-the-cash so to speak. Im pretty certain my toaster can play MP3s with a little modification so I dont see what difference the hardware involved would make to any DJ.

[kingdom hoop]

I havent observed that but then I tend to avoid DJs. I cant imagine any reason for that other than to flash-the-cash so to speak. Im pretty certain my toaster can play MP3s with a little modification so I dont see what difference the hardware involved would make to any DJ.

Sorry I was talking about proper professional DJs, not the ones who just pick a song and double click. They would often tend to make their music live as they go, using a program called Ableton, and invariably such DJs have Apples. I'm sure there's a reason for it beyond the Apple at the back looking cool in the dark, though that in itself is probably reason enough. Probably to do with more logistically friendly hot-keys, if, as you say, non-Macs are smoother operators.

[GavinZac]

Sorry I was talking about proper professional DJs, not the ones who just pick a song and double click. They would often tend to make their music live as they go, using a program called Ableton, and invariably such DJs have Apples.Never heard of it but a quick google shows it being quite good for both windows and mac.


I'm sure there's a reason for it beyond the Apple at the back looking cool in the dark, though that in itself is probably reason enough. Probably to do with more logistically friendly hot-keys, if, as you say, non-Macs are smoother operators.They have virtually identical keyboards though, so I cant see that having an effect. What I would say, attempting not to sound like some conspiracy theorist, is that if it is artists like Sasha (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Sasha3.jpg/350px-Sasha3.jpg) then its quite likely a freebie from Apple - ever noticed the sheer number of Apple products in tv, movies and music videos? An important part of any small market share company with high revenue is keeping its product relevant - apple do this by handing out MacBooks. (see here (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/04/14/3590) and here (http://tinyurl.com/24bsyv)).

Of course, even Linux is getting one or two product placements these days, featuring on Heroes :D

[kingdom hoop]

Fair enough, I'll ask some of my DJ friends and see if there are any good reasons.

Apple really has been a remarkable branding success story. Fair fcuks to Steve Jobs, clever guy. Looks like Gavin is on a crusade to put an end to it all though. :p

[GavinZac]

Apple really has been a remarkable branding success story. Fair fcuks to Steve Jobs, clever guy. Looks like Gavin is on a crusade to put an end to it all though. :p
I totally agree. As a marketing student, this guy is like a god. He really knows how to increase a product's perceived value. Im writing a glowing report on him as part of my masters course on business strategy.

However, as a life long geek, it frustrates me no end that people through sheer ignorance continue to line the pockets of companies who do very little to further the advance of technology's usefulness or value. When you have computers on sale for $150 and people are instead choosing to spend $1500 on something to do the exact same thing, it breeds laziness in the corporations and furthers the fear/begrudging people have towards these machines which cost the earth and are liable to break down with no point in repair.

Funnily, Microsoft tried to be Apple with its Zune's and Vista, and Apple is trying to be Microsoft by turning away from hardware and whoring its software to the highest bidders. In the midst of all this, computers are no more easy to use than 5 or even 10 years ago, it is the internet that is driving adoption.

[kingdom hoop]

Im writing a glowing report on him as part of my masters course on business strategy.



Make sure to mention how his charismatic personality permeated the organisation and its products. Such intangible factors have powered Apple's success. To the point where they only offer a derisory ten days credit. :eek:

Also, how ironic in the so-called Information Age that people will pay ten times the price for what apparently are very similar machines. The adage of sex sells is never far away I guess.

[GavinZac]

Make sure to mention how his charismatic personality permeated the organisation and its products. Such intangible factors have powered Apple's success. To the point where they only offer a derisory ten days credit. :eek:

I must admit though, that for all Jobs' demonic mind control market savie, I much more readily identify with Steve Ballmer. The idea that this lunatic super-nerd is one of the richest men in the world fills me with hope, even if he is working for the enemy :D
wvsboPUjrGc
bhUAr-P_39U
tGvHNNOLnCk

[kingdom hoop]

:D Remember seeing that first one before, fcukin priceless.

I think I'll try do that every morning after gettin out of bed, it's gotta be a great way to start the day. :D

[Block G Raptor]

I do a lot of graphic design and Digital art and have to say the MAC is far superior. It's been the industry standard for Donkeys years anyway

[GavinZac]

I do a lot of graphic design and Digital art and have to say the MAC is far superior. It's been the industry standard for Donkeys years anyway

What exactly is superior about it?

[geysir]

I got a Mac Book Pro 17" last year, the equivalent laptop from Dell with the same proc, memory, hard drive, graphics card and screen would have cost $300 more.
I run a windows on it as well, no prob. So far I haven't come across a windows laptop that can boot faster.
What makes it easy to maintain is that the software drivers/support for all the components/software are incorporated into the OS. I haven't had trouble with an incompatable driver since Mac OS 8 1997?
A beta version of Adobe CS3 was up and running on the Mac, instantly stable and compatable with everything, not one glitch, I can´t say the same with setting it up on Windows, took months.
In 12 years of using Macs on the internet I have never once used anti virus software nor had any reason to do so.
Up to OS9, it was a doddle to manage the extensions, drivers, software support whereas finding troublesome things in the Windows registry was a feckin nightmare.
Since OS X I haven´t had one reason to even have a look where the drivers are on the OS.
I got a white Mac Book for my daughter to use at her school. For school she uses the Windows side, for everything else she is on the Mac side.

Boot Camp is an absolute doddle
I haven´t tried Paralells (supposedly even easier) because at the time Paralells didn´t support 3D.

Nowadays Mac OS can installed on a PC (with some extra effort) so brand name doesn't matter. I´d be interested to piece together my own now.

[Block G Raptor]

What exactly is superior about it?

Speed, Stability, ease of navigation and the colours on screen are much closer to actual colours when processed. the last being the main reason they are used in the Graphic and Print industries

[OneRedArmy]

I agree that the average bebo, ebay and word processing user will probably have far less hassle and problems if they used a Mac over Windows Vista. Is that an air of superiority I detect Gavin?

I don't use social networking and rarely use word processing on my Mac.

I orginally bought my Imac for design reasons, as I live in the standard Dublin small one bed apartment and wanted something I could stick in the corner of my bedroom.

The reason I'd continue buying Macs is probably now more about stability and the vastly superior user interface (vs vista or especially XP).

[GavinZac]

Speed, Stability, ease of navigation and the colours on screen are much closer to actual colours when processed. the last being the main reason they are used in the Graphic and Print industries
I don't know about speed, but stability over windows is an advantage - however, I can't see that being a reason for graphics works choosing it since the average IT worker on windows NT has a lot more to lose should their machine go, than an artist. not sure about the last one; isnt it just a case of selecting the right deisplay settings for the right monitor? Its that way in linux anyway.

None of that seems to give any advantage over linux, however.

Is that an air of superiority I detect Gavin?No! I dont see how saying that people having different needs for their PC implies any kind of superiority. What I am saying is that the stability and lack of maintenance required makes it perfect for a home user - but again, you can get the same thing for free...


I orginally bought my Imac for design reasons, as I live in the standard Dublin small one bed apartment and wanted something I could stick in the corner of my bedroom.You wanted the shiny fruit coloured backside of it, in other words, and you paid the extra dosh for it. If I may start generating that air of superiority now, thats pretty much like selecting books for your library because they've got nice covers. if someone is happy to do that, fair play, but I'd see it as nonsensical.


The reason I'd continue buying Macs is probably now more about stability and the vastly superior user interface (vs vista or especially XP).Again, I'll give you stability but then the same is true of linux, at zero cost. UI vastly superior? I don't know. Really? I mean, it does look pretty out of the box but then with a little effort its pretty easy to exactly replicate the mac look - after all, its pretty much just a theme and an iconset.

Windows: http://www.teknobites.com/wp-content/images/tekno/osx.jpg
Linux: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4842/286861wq6.png

Personally I prefer my set up, aero's glossiness can be a bit distracting while trying to code.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8635/screenshotxa7.png
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8322/screenshot1hk0.png

[geysir]

You wanted the shiny fruit coloured backside of it, in other words, and you paid the extra dosh for it. If I may start generating that air of superiority now, thats pretty much like selecting books for your library because they've got nice covers. if you're happy to do that, fair play, but I'd see it as nonsensical.
Don't expect to be taken serious with this hogwash of slyly refusing to take ORA's reply as it was stated. This type of debating tactic is low standard.
ORA wrote clearly what his original reason was and what his reason is now.

The original reason why I bought a mac is radically different to why I would continue to do so.

[GavinZac]

Don't expect to be taken serious with this hogwash of slyly refusing to take ORA's reply as it was stated. This type of debating tactic is low standard.
ORA wrote clearly what his original reason was and what his reason is now.

The original reason why I bought a mac is radically different to why I would continue to do so.

the "you" in question was generalised, the rest of my post answered the rest of his. I don't use "youse" :rolleyes: . If thats unclear, I'll edit "if you're happy" to "if someone is happy".

[geysir]

the "you" in question was generalised, the rest of my post answered the rest of his. I don't use "youse" :rolleyes: . If thats unclear, I'll edit "if you're happy" to "if someone is happy".
Pull the other one.
Sound even more corny now.

[GavinZac]

Pull the other one.
Sound even more corny now.

What? Elaborate or go spam another thread.

[OneRedArmy]

You wanted the shiny fruit coloured backside of it, in other words, and you paid the extra dosh for it. If I may start generating that air of superiority now, thats pretty much like selecting books for your library because they've got nice covers. if someone is happy to do that, fair play, but I'd see it as nonsensical.1. Its white. All white.
2. It has an integrated one box design which has a smaller footprint than any desktop I'm aware of.
3. Its actually more akin to selecting a paperback because you haven't got room for the hardback...

[GavinZac]

1. Its white. All white.
2. It has an integrated one box design which has a smaller footprint than any desktop I'm aware of.
3. Its actually more akin to selecting a paperback because you haven't got room for the hardback...
oh ok, by imac, i assumed you meant one of these old monsters (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/IMac_Bondi_Blue.jpg/544px-IMac_Bondi_Blue.jpg) because we were talking past tense. Thats fair enough if the new slimmer "reconfigured laptop" size ones made more sense.

The rest stands, however.