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Gaz
07/06/2001, 2:14 PM
Lads, ye need to get out more....

pete
11/12/2007, 6:37 PM
Democratic & Republican Primaries start first week of January.

Race seems to be fairly open on who will get the nominations but odds firmly on Democrat winning outright.

Republicans can always be guaranteed to add some unusual candidates.

dahamsta
11/12/2007, 10:46 PM
Gobama!

pete
12/12/2007, 10:52 AM
Gobama!

Nah, sounds too much like Osama. :p

Republicans have Vietnam War prisoner, Mormon, TV actor, folksy southerner & Guiliani (too much going on there to sum in one phrase).

:eek:

dahamsta
12/12/2007, 11:33 AM
Guiliani is slowly but surely disappearing down a hole because of all the crap he's done over the years. If he keeps sinking at the same rate for about 300 years, he might meet Mike Huckabee at the bottom.

adam

pete
12/12/2007, 11:53 AM
Election Polls (http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/)

Giuliani getting Republican nomination is probably best way of getting Hilary Clinton elected. National polls may not be the most reliable at this stage as some lesser known candidates won't have the profile.

jebus
12/12/2007, 11:56 AM
Guiliani would have been better off switching Democrat and trying to get on Obama's ticket, there's no chance in hell the Republican's will put in pro-gay rights divorced man who isn't rabidly Pro-Life. He was finished before he got started. McCain wil burn himself out to, he's too much of a Hubert Humpherys type for this day and age.

On the Democrat side I'm hoping against hope that Obama gets the nod, and that he takes John Edwards with him as Vice President, the two of them together would be a dream ticket for the world. If Hilary gets the Democrat vote they will lose the 2009 election.

Anyone else find Ron Paul to be this years star turn? He was great at the first Republican debate a few months back when he said that everyone on the stage with him was a liar who would stab America in the back as soon as they get into office :D Hope to God he doesn't get anywhere near the White House though

Dodge
12/12/2007, 12:01 PM
I was in Chicago last year and they were literally going nuts for Obama. Seems a very smooth operator.

Still not sure america will vote in a black man (they definitely won't pick a woman)

Risteard
12/12/2007, 1:51 PM
Melikes Dennis Kucinich

dahamsta
12/12/2007, 1:56 PM
Melikes Dennis Kucinich's wife.

dancinpants
12/12/2007, 4:36 PM
there's no chance in hell the Republican's will put in pro-gay rights divorced man who isn't rabidly Pro-Life. He was finished before he got started.

He got Pat Robertsons endorsement.

jebus
12/12/2007, 4:38 PM
He got Pat Robertsons endorsement.

He won't get the Bible Belt votes, if he can't get those he can't be the Republican Nominee

dancinpants
12/12/2007, 8:09 PM
He won't get the Bible Belt votes, if he can't get those he can't be the Republican Nominee

I don't think he'll get the nomination...but to say he'll get no retrn from the bible belt is naieve. Pat Robertson is VERY influential amongst evangelicals. And whatever about Giulliani's past, he'ds touting himself as the "toughest on terror" and after all "those Muslims are out to destroy America and its way of life" - a very appealing trait to "Armageddon yearning" evangelicals.

GavinZac
12/12/2007, 8:12 PM
ron paul is a closet anarchist.

jebus
12/12/2007, 8:15 PM
I don't think he'll get the nomination...but to say he'll get no retrn from the bible belt is naieve. Pat Robertson is VERY influential amongst evangelicals. And whatever about Giulliani's past, he'ds touting himself as the "toughest on terror" and after all "those Muslims are out to destroy America and its way of life" - a very appealing trait to "Armageddon yearning" evangelicals.

When did I say he won't get any return from the Bible Belt, I said he won't get their vote, meaning their number one, and he won't. No matter what Robertson says Rudy is still a divorcee who is pro gay rights, that flies in the face of every hard nosed Christian in America

dahamsta
12/12/2007, 8:20 PM
ron paul is a closet anarchist.He's a libertarian. There's a subtle difference. :)

GavinZac
12/12/2007, 8:27 PM
He's a libertarian. There's a subtle difference. :)

very subtle!

dancinpants
12/12/2007, 9:02 PM
No matter what Robertson says Rudy is still a divorcee who is pro gay rights, that flies in the face of every hard nosed Christian in America

And I'm saying obviously NOT - hence Robertson's endorsement :rolleyes:

On the Ron Paul thing - he's getting a surprising amount of support :o

GavinZac
12/12/2007, 9:04 PM
On the Ron Paul thing - he's getting a surprising amount of support :o
he's been playing the internet card quite well.

jebus
12/12/2007, 9:09 PM
And I'm saying obviously NOT - hence Robertson's endorsement :rolleyes:


Robertson, more than likely, was paid to endorse Rudy, it's the way that show works.

Speaking of working the internet campaign well, I signed up for Obama Updates a few months back, and I have to say his staff are doing a great job of keeping me informed as to his every move and policy, it's gaining grassroots like that that can win you elections. Now if only I could vote :o

RogerMilla
13/12/2007, 8:00 AM
this bloody election is so important to the rest of the world, we should have a vote , whoever is in the white house has a massive influence on our lives.

Al Franken for the Senate by the way...

Newryrep
13/12/2007, 8:56 AM
I don't think he'll get the nomination...but to say he'll get no retrn from the bible belt is naieve. Pat Robertson is VERY influential amongst evangelicals. And whatever about Giulliani's past, he'ds touting himself as the "toughest on terror" and after all "those Muslims are out to destroy America and its way of life" - a very appealing trait to "Armageddon yearning" evangelicals.

The thing about the repubican nominee who may not appeal to the bible belt is that the Karl Rove types will tag on a local referendum vote along the lines of 'lower the age of sexual consent for WASP teenagers to 15/Gay marriage- delete as necessary which will rally the support base to actually go out in vote.

Jerry The Saint
13/12/2007, 12:15 PM
I heard some journalist from the Sunday Tribune reviewing the newspapers on Newstalk recently and the subject of the US elections came up. She was talking about how vicious the dirty tricks campaigns are in the US and said she couldn't believe how outrageous some of the character slurs were - Hilary Clinton having a lesbian affair or the rumours that one of the candidates was "engaged in Mormonism" :eek: :D :D

jmurphyc
13/12/2007, 1:41 PM
I have citizenship, so I'll be voting. Not sure whether I'll be voting for either a Democrat or a Republican but if I do it'll probably be Obama. Need to read up a bit more on each of the candidates though.

dancinpants
13/12/2007, 4:16 PM
Not sure whether I'll be voting for either a Democrat or a Republican

Vote for Clinton then, because with the way shes been voting in the Senate nobodys too sure whether shes a Democrat or Republican.

jmurphyc
13/12/2007, 4:27 PM
Vote for Clinton then, because with the way shes been voting in the Senate nobodys too sure whether shes a Democrat or Republican.

I didn't say what I meant properly. I may not vote for either of those two parties - which will limit my choice to almost nobody - but if I was going to vote it would be for a democrat. I intensely dislike the Republican Party and will probably never vote for them in my life.

pete
13/12/2007, 10:13 PM
He's a libertarian. There's a subtle difference. :)

Subtle but important difference. There is a lot of support for libertarian ethos is the US & not just on the Republican side.

US election possibly has more impact on our lives than Irish elections although on the other hand not much difference between the two parties.

zGqaq7asS00
Elizabeth Kucinich

Any one see the Daily Show "interview" :D

GavinZac
13/12/2007, 10:35 PM
Subtle but important difference. There is a lot of support for libertarian ethos is the US & not just on the Republican side.

US election possibly has more impact on our lives than Irish elections although on the other hand not much difference between the two parties.I should have known you'd be well up for that lot given your recent "what does the government actually do" malarky. :D

dancinpants
14/12/2007, 5:43 PM
& not just on the Republican side

There are supporters of the libertarian ethos, a surprising amount but in the overall scheme of things it wouldn't be THAT much. Ron Paul is receiving support because of his views on certain issues - I don't think people realise what his political outlook, as whole, is.

And Pete if your suggesting in the above quote that there is alot of support for the libertarian ethos on the democratic side your crazy. His outlook would have NO support whatsoever amongst hard fastened democrats. His best bet of picking up support would be amongst "independant-normally-republican-voting" people that have grown dis-illusioned by the Republican party as it stands.

pete
15/12/2007, 12:37 PM
There are supporters of the libertarian ethos, a surprising amount but in the overall scheme of things it wouldn't be THAT much. Ron Paul is receiving support because of his views on certain issues - I don't think people realise what his political outlook, as whole, is.


Ok not that much but more than is initially obvious. Democrats would be socially minded but possibly the problem in the US is the 2 party system. While the election is important to the world is there really that much difference between them on world issues?

Angus
19/12/2007, 1:18 PM
With all respect to any US citizens reading this, this election is both fascinating and depressing.

It is fascinating from a "sporting" perspective insofar as the result in unclear, there is no incumbent,the potential for the first female / African American president etc.

It is depressing because (with even more respect to our US friends) the policitcl system in the US is utterly morally bankrupt and corrupt - across the board. These people (both parties) use war and terrorist attacks as a political tool. For example, name the last US president to have avoided war / invasion / bombings in their first term.

It is straight out of the "How to get re-elected" handbook - Lesson 1 - invade somebody or blow something up.

In terms of how to deal with this, if I had a vote, I would be saying that all of the candidates are utterly self centred and ruthless and the one to do the most common good and the least harm would be the choice.

This time around the GOP options are truly awful - I have never seen a candidate as bad as Thompson and I watched the Romney car crash on MTP last Sunday.

The least worst option, in my view is Hillary - plenty of baggage and some prior form but broadly speaking, the double act with Bill is IMO the least worst option.

Noelys Guitar
20/12/2007, 1:39 PM
With all respect to any US citizens reading this, this election is both fascinating and depressing.

It is fascinating from a "sporting" perspective insofar as the result in unclear, there is no incumbent,the potential for the first female / African American president etc.

It is depressing because (with even more respect to our US friends) the policitcl system in the US is utterly morally bankrupt and corrupt - across the board. These people (both parties) use war and terrorist attacks as a political tool. For example, name the last US president to have avoided war / invasion / bombings in their first term.

It is straight out of the "How to get re-elected" handbook - Lesson 1 - invade somebody or blow something up.

In terms of how to deal with this, if I had a vote, I would be saying that all of the candidates are utterly self centred and ruthless and the one to do the most common good and the least harm would be the choice.

This time around the GOP options are truly awful - I have never seen a candidate as bad as Thompson and I watched the Romney car crash on MTP last Sunday.

The least worst option, in my view is Hillary - plenty of baggage and some prior form but broadly speaking, the double act with Bill is IMO the least worst option.

You would think that a Democratic candidate would be a cert to win the next presidental election after 8 years of Bush/Cheney/Rove/. Unfortunately that is not the case. Important primetime television news programmes like ABC's (since the death of the hugely infleuntial Canadian news anchor Peter Jennings) have swung to the right. Local "news" stations and local newspapers across the US mostly right wing. AOL right leaning in its online news coverage. I spend a lot of time in Eastern Pennsylvania and if you go into a bank or doctors office many of them have Fox news on. This was not the case 7 years ago. Proxy and blatant racism and sexism is rampant. In the workplace. On the TV. It is very similiar to how England was in the 70's. So the Democrtic candidate will ahve to overcome all that to get elected.

sonofstan
20/12/2007, 10:51 PM
Saw Kuchinich on telly in the middle of the night in a motel room in Milwaukee* - wants the US out of Iraq now, wants a free, universal health service, an end to tax breaks for big oil, he's pro-choice ......

He'd get my vote, no question





* i was in the motel room, not Denis

Noelys Guitar
20/12/2007, 11:52 PM
Saw Kuchinich on telly in the middle of the night in a motel room in Milwaukee* - wants the US out of Iraq now, wants a free, universal health service, an end to tax breaks for big oil, he's pro-choice ......

He'd get my vote, no question





* i was in the motel room, not Denis

Unfortunately has no chance on his own. I Expect Bloomberg to form an Independent party with Chuck Hagel and others. Not sure they could get elected but they will take a ton of votes away from the Republicians.

CollegeTillIDie
21/12/2007, 8:23 AM
Unfortunately has no chance on his own. I Expect Bloomberg to form an Independent party with Chuck Hagel and others. Not sure they could get elected but they will take a ton of votes away from the Republicians.

Well a third force could have a major impact on the elections for sure.
John Anderson ran as a third force in the 1980's and that billionaire eccentric whose name escapes me ran in the 1990's.

RogerMilla
21/12/2007, 9:00 AM
ross perot , nutter

jebus
21/12/2007, 9:38 AM
Anyone catch Barack on the Daily Show last night? Made a good point in response to Hilary being more experienced, and thus more capable to run the White House. He asked people who say that to look at who the two most experienced senators were this decade, Rumsfeld and Cheney, and ask themselves how they've panned out as senior figures in the Bush adminstration. Good point. Plus he came across as likeable, down to earth and with his finger on the pulse as ever. If this man isn't the next President America will have missed a great chance to set right the wrongs of the last 8 years

pete
21/12/2007, 2:04 PM
Anyone catch Barack on the Daily Show last night?

That was a re-run. The whole democrat primaries are all about limiting damage to the eventual winner so you will see little or no attacks.

Reading about Guilianis "consulting" in recent years & can't see how he could survive the scrutiny of a Presidential Election.

Ringo
04/01/2008, 8:40 AM
Invoking the civil rights struggle and his own life story and buoyed by chants of 'Obama', the senator from Illinois told the crowd that 'change is coming to America'.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0104/uselection.html?rss

Interesting to watch. Very early days. Obama is certainly the most charismatic. Would like to think he could do well. But is America really ready for a Black or Female president? He would certainly be my choice from all the candidates.

Block G Raptor
04/01/2008, 9:45 AM
From a purely Irish perspective I'd rather see Hilary elected, As Bill did amazing work on the NI peace process and I believe she would follow up on that,

dahamsta
04/01/2008, 9:57 AM
BGR, do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? "Time of the month"? What age are you, ten? :rolleyes:

Knocl the juvenile stuff on the head, now. This is your last warning.

jebus
04/01/2008, 10:01 AM
Delighted for Obama, and it's a very big step towards convincing his doubters that he is the man for the White House. If America aren't ready for a black or female president in this day and age then there really is no hope for the world with them voting as it's 'leader'


EDIT: Any chance we could move this to the Presidental Elections Thread? I think it would be interesting to keep that thread going throughout the year and not to split it into various threads

Block G Raptor
04/01/2008, 10:05 AM
BGR, do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? "Time of the month"? What age are you, ten? :rolleyes:

Knocl the juvenile stuff on the head, now. This is your last warning.

Jesus adam it was a little light humour (hence the smiley)

Dodge
04/01/2008, 11:18 AM
Delighted for Obama, and it's a very big step towards convincing his doubters that he is the man for the White House. If America aren't ready for a black or female president in this day and age then there really is no hope for the world with them voting as it's 'leader'
Well d'uh. Doesn't mean they'll vote that way and you can be guarenteed to see ads in certain places playing on his race/her gender.

Anyone read the Hillary quote about he part in NI. Basically made out that it was all her, despite most analysts believing she had a tiny superficial role.

jebus
04/01/2008, 11:35 AM
Well d'uh. Doesn't mean they'll vote that way and you can be guarenteed to see ads in certain places playing on his race/her gender.

I realise that, but as long as the black/female president angle doesn't become one of the main issues then I'll be happy no matter the result in November. One of the main reasons that I prefer Barack to Hilary is that I haven't heard a peep from Baracks camp about the black vote coming out for him, where as Hilary's people have already started in on the First Female President trip

Dodge
04/01/2008, 11:42 AM
One of the main reasons that I prefer Barack to Hilary is that I haven't heard a peep from Baracks camp about the black vote coming out for him

Thats because they realise he has that pretty much sown up. He dosn't need to campaign to Black America as he (and most obsevers) reckon he'll get 80+% of their vote

jebus
04/01/2008, 12:01 PM
Thats because they realise he has that pretty much sown up. He dosn't need to campaign to Black America as he (and most obsevers) reckon he'll get 80+% of their vote

But there's never a given in American politics, and when it comes to Hilary having Bill (who is very popular among black voters) it especially can't be taken as certain that Barack will get 80% of the black vote (what of black Republican swing voters for example).

Either way it will be seen as historic if Barack gets voted into the White House, and even though I know it will have to be touched on if he gets the Democrat's seal of approval, the fact he hasn't touched on how historic it will be during the primaries and has solely focused on his policies is the mark of someone I would want in power in Washington

Angus
04/01/2008, 12:44 PM
It was a very strong performance from Obama - interestingly, on Fox News, whose coverage was surprisingly not partisan, there was talk that turnout was key to Obama.

They had 125,000 in the Dem Iowa caucus in 2004, which was a big turnout year - they had 250,000 last night - that could be significant for future states if Obama can get out the vote.

Betting wise, I backed him at a big price a long time ago but hedged it out this morning as I think he is now underpriced - Hillary is still very formidable and an Obama win in Iowa was predicted a while out and therefore was fatored in the price. BUT the scale of his vistory wasn't - he is a class act, at least by the way he comes across.

Can't see Huckabee winning the nomination - if he does he has no chance of beating Hill or Barack - the only way the GOP can win this thing is with McCain or Rudy and cannot see the red states voting for Rudy.....

As somebody said, a fascinating race......

dancinpants
04/01/2008, 4:18 PM
It was indeed a great result for Obama, but its very early days. In 92 Bill Clinton done WORSE than Hillary did last night, but went on to run away with it in New Hampshire. So unless Obama can inspire an increase in turn out in New Hampshire I'd expect Hillary to make more of a scrap of it in "uppity" New Hampshire.

And to suggest that Obama has "sown" up the black vote is stunningly naieve - just as naieve as saying that Hillary has sown up the female vote. However its felt that alot of the black community will now have more confidence in lining in behind him now - only AFTER seeing how he done yesterday in a 95% white state. Before that alot of blacks wouldn't have "wasted" their vote on trying to elect a black president because nobody else was voting with them - eg the Sharpton, and Jackson presidential runs.

Angus
04/01/2008, 4:39 PM
now - only AFTER seeing how he done yesterday in a 95% white state.

Key point well made - leaving aside the peculiarities of the caucus system, Iowa is an unusual state in terms of ethnic demographic but also in terms of the high number of christian conservatives / evangelicals......