Why is it wrong to support foreign teams as well?

[Titan]

Reading the bertie thread got me thinking.

I 'support' a lot of clubs in different countries. I go to a few foreign games a year and have a ball. I've been to lots of Liverpool games,Real Madrid,Aberdeen (dont ask!) Bayern, Hamburg, Ajax, Glentoran and a few other random games in europe. I keep an eye on the results of these clubs and watch them on TV and go to the odd game.

When I was a kid I supported Pats cos I lived in Inchicore, I moved to Crumlin and started alternating (each week) between Pats and Rovers. As I got older I lost interest in football (beer,women the usual!). Then in my mid twenties I started going to random league of Ireland games and a few foreign games. My work over the last few years saw me going to at least 50 games per calendar year. (At least 40 of which on the Island of Ireland).

I now support UCD (not just because they pay my wages. if I moved on in the morning I'd buy a season ticket).

So my question is this: Is my (and others like me) support of football not valid cos I havent supported 1 team all my life and because I like several clubs? ( Note I say clubs and not teams as I 'support' them regardless of how theyre doing)

If not Why?

[jebus]

It is valid, but it doesn't count as much as a one club man, because you probably don't care about them as much as someone who has only ever supported one club in this league.

Plus do you really support, I mean actually support, all those teams in all those countries? I have my favourites in other leagues, but I wouldn't say I support them

[niallsparky]

In my opinion, your support is perfectly valid. Personally, I have no problem with people who choose to support foreign teams aswell as maintaining a level of interest in their own league. In your situation, you have mantained this degree of support to you national league.

I think the big problem is those who choose to slate and undermine the national league at every opportunity, most of whom who have never bothered to go along to a game - (Irish or foreign in many cases). Yet these football supporters feel that they have the infallible ability to criticise whatever, whenever they want.

[Titan]

It is valid, but it doesn't count as much as a one club man, because you probably don't care about them as much as someone who has only ever supported one club in this league.

Plus do you really support, I mean actually support, all those teams in all those countries? I have my favourites in other leagues, but I wouldn't say I support them

Support is in inverted commas!

Fair point I suppose

[Titan]

In my opinion, your support is perfectly valid. Personally, I have no problem with people who choose to support foreign teams aswell as maintaining a level of interest in their own league. In your situation, you have mantained this degree of support to you national league.

I think the big problem is those who choose to slate and undermine the national league at every opportunity, most of whom who have never bothered to go along to a game - (Irish or foreign in many cases). Yet these football supporters feel that they have the infallible ability to criticise whatever, whenever they want.

There are lots of people who critiscise our league who have never been to a game here. They drive me nuts BUT I dont think the attitude of people who support one club here and berate people for only supporting Man U, Celtic etc helps the cause of trying to convince them to support an Irish team as well.

[Tony_Montana]

The World is Yours but remember who made you ! ;)

[Titan]

The World is Yours but remember who made you ! ;)

Whos doin wot now?:confused:

[Tis-smeee]

Imho you can follow many teams but support only one

[BohDiddley]

I follow Leeds. It doesn't feel wrong. :o

[Poor Student]

There's a lot of nonsense talked on this subject. It's a bit like social science, plenty of varying definitions of the one term. A lot of people have appointed themsevles as sole deciders of terms such as supporter, support, follow, consumer etc. Tis-mee, you're just splitting hairs above. One person could ask me who do I follow, another who do I support, they mean the same thing. When I go to Befield, I'm a follower, supporter and consumer of UCD AFC. We invent and attach pejorative meanings to words to belittle or castigate others for their choices.

One thing that also annoys me is it is sometimes suggested by some that it's ok or at least better to support a foreign team who isn't from Britain.

[Tis-smeee]

I support Waterford united in many ways but I follow Celtic Milan Stuttgart, does that make it easier smarty pants

[Poor Student]

I support Waterford united in many ways but I follow Celtic Milan Stuttgart, does that make it easier smarty pants

Nope, you could say you follow Waterford and support the others. You've just decided that one means less than the other so you can create tiers of support.

[kingdomkerry]

IMO it is retarded to support a team you have no affiliation with and quite hypocritical as well. In saying that I respect people freedom to do what they want

[Poor Student]

IMO it is retarded to support a team you have no affiliation with and quite hypocritical as well. In saying that I respect people freedom to do what they want

Surely your support is the affiliation. How is it hypocritical?

[spaceghost]

i've loved/supported/followed longford town and liverpool equally , all my life,nothing wrong with it.

[OneRedArmy]

Surely your support is the affiliation. How is it hypocritical?Through the creation and stimulation of an artificial bond perhaps?

[Sam_Heggy]

I follow Leeds. It doesn't feel wrong. :o

Thats just wrong on so many levels the bandwith of this forum couldn't handle them all spelled out. :eek:

[OneRedArmy]

i've loved/supported/followed longford town and liverpool equally , all my life,nothing wrong with it.Who would you support if they played each other in a competitive game?

I still get a giggle out of all the Liverpool/Celtic supporters (people who "supported" both, mostly Irish funny enough......) who didn't know who to cheer for in the Battle of Britain a few years ago and sat there cheering both teams in their half and half scarves.

Pathetic. You can't serve two masters (IMHO).

[Tony_Montana]

Who would you support if they played each other in a competitive game?

I still get a giggle out of all the Liverpool/Celtic supporters (people who "supported" both, mostly Irish funny enough......) who didn't know who to cheer for in the Battle of Britain a few years ago and sat there cheering both teams in their half and half scarves.

Pathetic. You can't serve two masters (IMHO).

I am the only Master of my destiny, to me this makes little sense no offence unless you are into something i don't understand !

[bohsRap]

So my question is this: Is my (and others like me) support of football not valid cos I havent supported 1 team all my life and because I like several clubs? ( Note I say clubs and not teams as I 'support' them regardless of how theyre doing)

If not Why?

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with you following a team abroad. The problem is when people prefer foreign teams and completely disregard their league at home.

[Sam_Heggy]

Reading the bertie thread got me thinking.

I 'support' a lot of clubs in different countries. I go to a few foreign games a year and have a ball. I've been to lots of Liverpool games,Real Madrid,Aberdeen (dont ask!) Bayern, Hamburg, Ajax, Glentoran and a few other random games in europe. I keep an eye on the results of these clubs and watch them on TV and go to the odd game.

When I was a kid I supported Pats cos I lived in Inchicore, I moved to Crumlin and started alternating (each week) between Pats and Rovers. As I got older I lost interest in football (beer,women the usual!). Then in my mid twenties I started going to random league of Ireland games and a few foreign games. My work over the last few years saw me going to at least 50 games per calendar year. (At least 40 of which on the Island of Ireland).

I now support UCD (not just because they pay my wages. if I moved on in the morning I'd buy a season ticket).

So my question is this: Is my (and others like me) support of football not valid cos I havent supported 1 team all my life and because I like several clubs? ( Note I say clubs and not teams as I 'support' them regardless of how theyre doing)

If not Why?

In all honesty I used to be an avid Liverpool fan first and foremost followed by Harps. Back then I couldn't travel to as many games and the only team I could see was Liverpool on the box. I got a car and started travelling to more Harps games. I now rarely miss a Harps game and if I have nothing better to be doing then I will sit down and watch Liverpool. I am now going to get ready for astro, it starts at 7.30. I will check the champs league result when I get back.

It was the togetherness of the Harps fans, the sheer pleasure I get from supporting my local team that got me hooked on Harps. To say I support Liverpool would be a lie, to say I look out for their results would be closer to the mark.

[kingdomkerry]

Surely your support is the affiliation. How is it hypocritical?

I'll give you an example of how some liverpool supporters are hypocritical. Say they are watching their beloved "pool" and they worship steve gerrard one week.

It is not uncommon to despise the same player when he plays for england?

[Sam_Heggy]

I'll give you an example of how some liverpool supporters are hypocritical. Say they are watching their beloved "pool" and they worship steve gerrard one week.

It is not uncommon to despise the same player when he plays for england?


This is a prime example of fickle Irish folk.

We had Celtic in Finn Park in august, the ground was packed (around 6,ooo) the majority of which was "Celtic fans".
The tickets were sold inside the ground the previous 2/3 games. Each game had over 2000 inside the ground up until half time, when the Celtic fans got their tickets, they left promptly after. We won both games at a canter as far as I remember.
During the Harps - Celtic game they started to boo some of "their players" as "the brutal" Harps team were coasting 3 nil at HT.
FICKLE FANS, none of which forked out the €50 each to go to the gala dinner with the Celtic players afterwards. It was all Harps fans in attendance.

[Poor Student]

I'll give you an example of how some liverpool supporters are hypocritical. Say they are watching their beloved "pool" and they worship steve gerrard one week.

It is not uncommon to despise the same player when he plays for england?


Aren't there a fair few English Liverpool fans who have no fondness for the English national team? There's a few eL fans here who care little for our own national team. All hypocrites?

[don ramo]

its easy to say you follow a team, i can follow a team in every league in the world, but to actually support a team and be there through the hard times and good times and havin the players acknowledge you on the streeet, is what it means to be true supporter,
in all honsety id say liverpool would loose a lot of there "followers" if they were relegated, and all they would have left is there true supporters, there the peopel you know love the club so many irish follow a winning team its easy to follow man u, liverpool, arsenal and chelski there always gonna be winnin stuff, but i have more respect for some one that follows leeds or aston villa as they didnt pick there club, there club picked them,
you can follow all you want but how do you call yourself a fan when you contribute notin the the actual support the team needs on match day

[jbyrne]

Pathetic. You can't serve two masters (IMHO).

is this still sport we are discussing? who makes these rules?

[kingdomkerry]

Aren't there a fair few English Liverpool fans who have no fondness for the English national team? There's a few eL fans here who care little for our own national team. All hypocrites?

No i never said that

[superfrank]

I think you are free to have a significant interest in any team you want as I do. I enjoy to see Bray, Chelsea and Marseille to do well. I wear all three jerseys around the place and I do check up on their scores.

My problem with the Irish Celtic and English team fans is that an awful lot of them ignore the product that's on their doorstep. If they like football they can avail of it for a fraction of the price but they insist on going abroad and then knocking the league when asked why they don't support it.

However, I HATE the approach of most el fans who attack all no-el fans for not supporting the league, see the treatment of Ciaran in a recent thread as a prime example. That will never win people over and, imo, is going to worsen their view of the league and they'll probably tell their friend s of the experiences.

[Paddyfield]

I don't want to swing this off topic, but I support all Irish teams in Europe.

How many non-Shels fans supported them in Lansdowne a few years ago?
I was proud of St Pat's when they got a point in Parkhead. I was delighted when Bohs beat Aberdeen and Cork won in Sweden.

Other than that, I hope Shels stay down and Pat's, Bohs and Cork are relegated next season while Galway United win the League:D

[micls]

I dont care if you support even foreign team there is once you support your local EL team.

Its people who support other teams at the expense of an EL team that are killing our league. Everyone else, enjoy yourself

[OneRedArmy]

is this still sport we are discussing? who makes these rules?Can you read? IMHO.......

[Red&White Rover]

I follow Leeds. It doesn't feel wrong. :o

Ditto.

I love Sligo Rovers, but follow Leeds fairly closely...

[don ramo]

but the problem is when you ask someine why they dont suport the EL they say its ****, and you ask them what there comparing it to, and the say the EPL, clubs that have billion pound budgets and the likes, you can not compare the EL with the EPL it makes no sense, that is why these people are annoying, football is football, its always 11 VS 11,
if you think the EPL is so good why dont you go to more games instead of havin your fotballin knowledge limited to the magic box, sorry but people whos football expierience is limited to the magic box is no fan of the sport,
if you travel over a few times a year to watch your team its right to say you support them, i actually know peopel who have never gone to a game abroad and say they follow a team all there lives, and say there fans, they play it in a gym every single week, but they wouldnt go to a local game,
these people are just weird, no reson you cant follow a foreign team but no point (i think) in sayin you a fan of football when all you watch is a box in the corner

[Tis-smeee]

its easy to say you follow a team, i can follow a team in every league in the world, but to actually support a team and be there through the hard times and good times and havin the players acknowledge you on the streeet, is what it means to be true supporter,
in all honsety id say liverpool would loose a lot of there "followers" if they were relegated, and all they would have left is there true supporters, there the peopel you know love the club so many irish follow a winning team its easy to follow man u, liverpool, arsenal and chelski there always gonna be winnin stuff, but i have more respect for some one that follows leeds or aston villa as they didnt pick there club, there club picked them,
you can follow all you want but how do you call yourself a fan when you contribute notin the the actual support the team needs on match day


Exactly what I meant but could not be bothered to type it out for anal UCD supporters Thanks Mr Ramo

[osarusan]

A lot of people have appointed themsevles as sole deciders of terms such as supporter, support, follow, consumer etc......... they mean the same thing.
And you are one of those people.


You've just decided that one means less than the other so you can create tiers of support.
And you have decided that they have equal meaning. Just as arbitrarily and with no more evidence.

[KoemansCC]

I'll give you an example of how some liverpool supporters are hypocritical. Say they are watching their beloved "pool" and they worship steve gerrard one week.

It is not uncommon to despise the same player when he plays for england?


This statement annoys the hell out me whenever someone sprouts it out, people 'adore' and support Steven Gerrard because he plays for Liverpool, not because he's Steven Gerrard...if he packed his bags in the morning and left the club the adoration/support would cease for the most part as it would for the likes of Rooney (Everton), Lampard (West Ham), Anelka (insert any previous club), etc...people may still respect the players if they returned but would they worship them...of course there are some exceptions, Fowler, Larrson, etc...

People adore players for the jersey they wear not of who they are in most cases...you can worship a player when he wears your jersey, but when he doesn't?

The English example you have used isn't valid as the majority of Irish fans would boo the Pope if he wore an England jersey...

[Calcio Jack]

This IMO is like having a debate about where one should go on holidays... I like to holiday in Ireland and I also like to travel to locations abroad... no one has a right to tell me I should only holiday in Ireland... so IMO there is nothing wrong with supporting a foreign team.. what is 'wrong' is when people slag off the LOI who haven't actually ever been to a game...but hey that's democracy, so like holidays and attracting punters, it's up to the LOI to convince people that the local product is worth trying... regretfully the FAI when compared to the tourist board has failed miserably

[drummerboy]

I prefer to put my time into grass roots football, being involved with my local intermediate club and the local schoolboy club. I bring my young lad along to a few random EL games every season. Maybe 4 or 5. I do get a sense of inverted snobbery coming from a lot of Eircom League supporters. Its like slagging off somebody because they are wearing an Armani suit instead of one made by McGees of Donegal.

[Dodge]

Went to Old Trafford with friends of mine last week. As a kid I'd have had Liverpool as my second team but I grew out of it. I went to manchester for beers with mates and to see world class footballers. I've yet to meet a LOI fan that doesn't watch Match of the day or the live sunday game most of the time. Whether we allign themselves with one of the British sides or not we all have an interest in it.

However there's a world of difference between taking an interest in something and the ridiculous devotion to a team you arbitrarily decide to "follow".

On some of the points raised earlier
1) Did any of the people who said they follow two teams answer who they'd pick in a competitive game. I know plenty of Pats/Celtic people who were gutted when we lost to them in europe.
2) Where are people getting the idea that LOI fans are against premiership fans, anywhere but on internet forums? If any of the people who claim they won't go to LOI games because of the attitudes here actually went to games they'd realise people have better things to do than bitch or moan about people's "other" teams. Can you give examples of how this snobbery manifested itself? Was it all in your mind or was it one or two people making comments?

[gustavo]

2) Where are people getting the idea that LOI fans are against premiership fans, anywhere but on internet forums? If any of the people who claim they won't go to LOI games because of the attitudes here actually went to games they'd realise people have better things to do than bitch or moan about people's "other" teams. Can you give examples of how this snobbery manifested itself? Was it all in your mind or was it one or two people making comments?

I suppose those who refer to the Premiership as the Premier**** can come across as being fairly bitter

[Titan]

IMO it is retarded to support a team you have no affiliation with and quite hypocritical as well. In saying that I respect people freedom to do what they want

In another thread you said that as you were living in south Dublin now you would probably support Rovers. Now that they are staying northside who will you support? Youve dismissed UCD who are now youre only local team so what criteria will you use to pick the team you 'Support'?

By your own logic you are a retard if you support anyone but UCD.
I dont agree with your logic by the way so I dont think youre a retard:)

Seriously though give UCD a go We are your local team and when you see the mayhem we have planned for our home games next season you will be missing out if you dont come along!

[Dodge]

I suppose those who refer to the Premiership as the Premier**** can come across as being fairly bitter

I agree. I just haven’t heard that phrase outside of LOI message boards

[SunderlandBohs]

You can support an Irish team aswell as a foreign team. I had this arguement the other week with my brother in law. He can't understand why people do this because the standard of the league is so bad in his opinion. My response was no matter how bad our league or your local team is you still should follow them. He claims to be a 'proper' football fan because he only follows Manchester Utd, (Even though he only been to Old Trafford once this season ) unlike someone like me.

[BohDiddley]

Where are people getting the idea that LOI fans are against premiership fans, anywhere but on internet forums? If any of the people who claim they won't go to LOI games because of the attitudes here actually went to games they'd realise people have better things to do than bitch or moan about people's "other" teams. Can you give examples of how this snobbery manifested itself? Was it all in your mind or was it one or two people making comments?
Precisely.
This is one of the several excuses that some people latch onto for not actually liking football, other than massively hyped events that they connect to through television.
eL fans are bound to challenge the sneering remarks made by those who big themselves up by saying Irish football isn't good enough for them. The only other option is to agree with them, and that's not going to persuade people to come either, now is it?

[scottish_bohs]

I wrote about this in my blog back at the start of the season...

http://bohsman.blogspot.com/2007/04/yer-hame-team-is-yer-ain-team.html

Shameless plug over... :o

It's a strange phenomenon. There seems to be a facination with the premiership in ireland. I can understand the celtic link to an extent, but the English one baffles me.

There's guys in my work here who claim to be "massive" man united fans "cos they've followed them since the 60s" but they look at me as if i have 2 heads when i mention the eircom league.

I love watching football, but i could never support a team if i didn't have a link to them. I watch the Premiership cos i like watching football, but mainly cos of fantasy football. At times it bores the arse off me. Some of the **** offered up by the top english league is awful.

There's no doubt some of the eircom league games are crap, but at least it means something to me. At least there's a connection.

[Titan]

So in a nutshell we should be pushing the local aspect of our game. Donramo said earlier about being acknowledged by players in the street. I think thats one of the biggest factors in supporting an EL team.
I remember being in Edinburgh years ago with a Hibs fan friend. We walked into his local shop and Alan Sneddon (who played for Hibs at the time) was in there buying bread.
He knew my mate from going to matches and we chatted for a few minutes when he was leaving he thanked him for his support. Apparently according to the same mate the current batch of Hibs players would call the cops if you tried to engage them in conversation!
Thankfully thats not the story here (in my experience anyway) so maybe we should be promoting the players as down to earth types that appreciate your support?

[kingdomkerry]

In another thread you said that as you were living in south Dublin now you would probably support Rovers. Now that they are staying northside who will you support? Youve dismissed UCD who are now youre only local team so what criteria will you use to pick the team you 'Support'?

By your own logic you are a retard if you support anyone but UCD.
I dont agree with your logic by the way so I dont think youre a retard:)

Seriously though give UCD a go We are your local team and when you see the mayhem we have planned for our home games next season you will be missing out if you dont come along!

Thanks for the offer and maybe i might go to a game of two in the bowl but i just dont think a college team in a countrys premier league are going to go anywhere.

Anyway when i mention supporting a team you are not affililiated with, that rules out every irish team.

[kingdomkerry]

I should of used the word "silly" rather than "retarded".

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Probably should move this here from the Bertie thread, so. Didn't see this one.


In reference to the elitist and zealots points raised in respect of EL supporters, bear in mind that hardcore fans of any club in any league dislike the sunshiner/bandwagon variety of their own support.

Those who "follow" English sides and make it over to a game once in a while might like to think the die hards love the effort you make to attend the odd game, but really, as far as they're concerned, there's no difference between you and the Japanese or Norwegian guy who makes it to a match every once in a while.

They look down their nose at sunshiners of any variety. Fact.
Oh I don't doubt that for a second.

Not many of the hardcore Liverpool or Man. Utd. support grew up in a society where the vast majority of people supported French football and only became elitist and zealous about their local teams later on, though, so their feelings would be pretty straightforward and could never be suspected as being contrived.

Our situation is not as simple as that and it's disingenuous to the extreme to suggest that it is.

I have only ever watched live football in Ireland. That's where I'm used to doing it and that's what the bus and the legs are for. The telly is for the faraway leagues and I've only watched Bohs about three times in my lifetime on it. But fair fecks to the people who do go over to England to see the team they obsess about the whole rest of the time, if that's what they want. And if the locals look down their noses at them, then that's their own problem. It's not a problem that we have here, despite the implications that we're just a normal league with normal prejudices.

Like it or not, the emotional investment that the daytripping barstoolers put in to following the fortunes of their English team (whilst not touching the tribal buzz of local football in terms of 'authentic' pull, as we all smugly know) is genuine; for better or for worse, everyday life in this country provides a forum for defending/exalting the team they align themselves with against/over plenty of other teams from the same league with whom plenty of other people in everyday life have similarly aligned themselves. (For example, I know your heart will bleed for them and all, but United fans in the '80s or Liverpool fans in the '90s in Dublin were about as far from 'sunshine' as it gets in this regard.)

The emotional investment, I repeat, is genuine -- and in some cases, it's massive. It's radically different to the emotional investment of the eircom league fan (and it's fecking egregious that the situation exists whereby a gang of Irish lads who are that mad about football can go from one end of the week, one end of the month even, to the other talking avidly about nothing else but ball and the native league not be mentioned once) but it is real.

To dismiss these people -- as certain League of Ireland supporters tend to do -- as if they were capricious gobdaws, with the drama-queen pretence that the situation is just all too incomprehensible, is unfair and unrealistic.

Not to mention the fact that some of the people who feel genuine attachments to English clubs do go to (.i. up off their bums and pay good money in to see) plenty of League of Ireland matches as well -- what of them? What's the zealots' consensus on dual support, in these heady summer-league days? (Are the Bohs mug and the Liverpool duvet incompatible items of merchandise? ... :eek: )

[Tony_Montana]

It is not wrong and don't let anybody else tell you different.