Budget

[OneRedArmy]

So FF promise that the good times will continue to roll and the spellbound electorate return them to power, then all of a sudden, its bread and water time and we have to tighten our belts :rolleyes:

To add insult to injury, the property classes are clamouring for a change to stamp duty in todays budget as some kind of magic pill to solve our woes. Talk about re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic!

The stormclouds gathering on the horizon will affect the global economy and regardless of our recent economic performance, we are a bit part player and will have to go with the flow.

Todays budget is a non-event, but expect lots of stealth tax rises to save Cowan's bacon over the ridiculous projections for 2007-2008.

[Clifford]

Right what time is he kicking off? I assume the first belts to be tightened will be them rejecting their ridiculous pay rises?

Excellent. I don't mind the rest as long as they play fair with us.

Ha ha like that's going to happen.

[OneRedArmy]

3.20 I think.

The payrises were a slap in the face to an electorate that probably deserves it for electing them again.

[pete]

The stormclouds gathering on the horizon will affect the global economy and regardless of our recent economic performance, we are a bit part player and will have to go with the flow.

Indeed. There is very little in todays Budget that will create boom or recession, the US economy largely decides that for us.

[Clifford]

update:


Economy to grow at more 'modest' rate next year.

All spending and revenue measures to be announced today.

1.7 billion increase in spending in 2008

Government deficit of 0.9 % in 2008

GDP to increase by 3% in 2008

24,000 jobs to be created in 2008

Growth in capital spending of 12%

Growth in total spending of 8.6%

2.7bn to be spent on transport, 1.7bn allocated for roads and motorways.

Additional 95m allocated for the Schools Building Programme

1.7bn to be allocated for social housing measures

Environment / Climate Change

Fundamental reform of VRT - VRT rate to be determined by the co2 emissions and not the engine size. Co2 labelling system to be introduced. VRT changes to be revenue-neutral. VRT to range with 7 bands, from 7% to 36%.

Motor Tax unchanged since 2004. Increase in motor tax by 9.5% for cars under 2.5L, and 11% for cars over 2.5L.

13.2 million to be spent on energy research.

[Clifford]

20 per cent standard rate band widened by €1,400 to €35,400

Stamp duty changes: no duty up to €125,000 - 7% on remainder up to 1million, and 9% duty for the balance above 1m.

[pete]

Fundamental reform of VRT - VRT rate to be determined by the co2 emissions and not the engine size. Co2 labelling system to be introduced. VRT changes to be revenue-neutral. VRT to range with 7 bands, from 7% to 36%.

This has been promised for some time. Interested to see the detail in that.

It is not time to slow Capital spending so good to see that continuing although some value for money would be nice.

Total Spending increase of 8.6% seems too high. Any mention of current spending increases?

[Clifford]

No idea Pete, but it might be here..

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1012021.shtml

[dahamsta]

Right what time is he kicking off? I assume the first belts to be tightened will be them rejecting their ridiculous pay rises? Speculation from The Phoenix this week that Bertie'll magnanimously turn down his rise during the pay talks next year. Personally I think he won't, I think it was his last go off the country, simply to see would he get away with it.

[OneRedArmy]

So they changed VRT to reflect CO2 emissions, but didn't change motor tax to do the same (UK motor tax has been based on emissions for the last 4 or 5 years).

Thats joined up thinking.....

[cheifo]

Come on lets get onto the big issues.Another 30c on ciggies.:(:)

[pete]

No idea Pete, but it might be here..

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1012021.shtml



To complement the changes in the VRT system, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government also intends to bring forward proposals that will link motor tax to CO2 emissions for new cars from 1 July 2008. These measures will allow consumers to act in an environmentally responsible way.


This was due originally by Jan 2008 so I predict little chance this will implemented before Jan 2009 especially as proposals not ready yet.

[Lionel Ritchie]

So they changed VRT to reflect CO2 emissions, but didn't change motor tax to do the same (UK motor tax has been based on emissions for the last 4 or 5 years).

Thats joined up thinking.....

I think I just heard them saying on radio one that the tax system will follow suit from May next year.

[OneRedArmy]

I think I just heard them saying on radio one that the tax system will follow suit from May next year.See Pete's post above. In fairness, by going through the bother of doing it for VRT it would take an extra 10mins to extend it to motor tax.

Even if it is announced by May it probably won't come into effect until 2009.

[onceahoop]

There's a tax coming in on electricity. It's been driven by the EU. Won't affect householders and very little on business either.

But watch this space. Out of little acorns...............

[Macy]

Slight increase for PAYE workers compared to inflation (increasing the bands & credits doesn't quite equate to inflation in nett pay).

Considering the way the economy's going, quite bold expectations for growth and inflation.

Total U turn on Stamp Duty - twice in a few months he's tried to change it.

The supposed "Green" taxes are nothing but revenue raising. It gives them an out on illegal VRT with the EU by saying it's a green tax, and motor tax does nothing about consumption. Has to be fuel based to be effective and to be a truly green tax. More you use, more you pay.

He could've borrowed more for infrastructure projects. Would've done two things - would've improved our competitive and given the construction industry a boost. Sort out the nations roads, rail, and public transport once and for all, with both short term and long term benefit.

[Lionel Ritchie]

See Pete's post above. In fairness, by going through the bother of doing it for VRT it would take an extra 10mins to extend it to motor tax.

I'm inclined to agree. RTEs environment correspondent just said on Morning Ireland that any new tax system will also only apply to new cars as "it'd be too hard to work out the emissions on existing cars":confused:

Use the feckin NCT system. Sure isn't it one of the things they measure?

This may well drive up demand for second hand, less efficient motors if you're not going to whipped for driving around in a traditional guzzler. It may also swell the ranks of the chavs selling cars, of sometimes dubious provenance, on the side of the road that they've brought back on the ferry.

[pete]

As mentioned above new VRT system would seem to contradict the increases in Motor taxes for large engines (diesels cars would be an perfect example). I don't for one minutes believe new car prices will drop for even the most fuel efficient vehicles. I think all that will happen is that more inefficient cars will increase in price.

Stamp Duty changes will have little affect. Apparently would reduce average house price by 5k which is hardly worthwhile.

The government have borrowed a lot of money to fund 8% increase in public current spending. If this is required in 2007 will only be worse in 2008 with much lower 3% growth rate predicted. Unless current spending controlled will be more obvious tax increases next year.

Most budgets a non event now we have the Euro with no control over Interest rates or Money supply. I don't think it is obvious what the big issue in this budget was as money spread across the table...

[shedite]

Nice little tool here to get a quick look at how your income will be affected.

http://www.deloitte.ie/TC/

An extra €11.66 a month for me according to that. What's the craic with drink? Any increase? Don't smoke, have car, children, wife or mortgage so not much else affects me really

[pete]

While some items have been labeled Green it is difficult to see much if any Green Party input into this years Budget. The much hyped VRT changes have been scheduled for some time so would have been announced whether the Greens in government or not.

Have the Greens sold their souls for seat at the table?

[John83]

Have the Greens sold their soles for seat at the table?
They won't be needing them now that they're sitting down.

[Macy]

Have the Greens sold their souls for seat at the table?
They did that a long time before this budget... They're a prime example of the weakness of going in to a coalition when there's actually no need for you.

[OneRedArmy]

Can we at least wait a year to 18 months to judge their performance?! Also worth bearing in mind all the Green detractors in this thread had their mind made up before they even went into coalition.

The fact that Bertie is becoming a bigger lame duck each passing day within his own party isn't particularly helpful to a minority partner.

[dahamsta]

Can we at least wait a year to 18 months to judge their performance?!We don't need to, they've already gone back on enough campaign promises - and general promises - to prove that they're just Fianna Fail under a different coloured banner. The speed with which they turned should be embarassing to anyone that voted Green.

[Macy]

Can we at least wait a year to 18 months to judge their performance?! Also worth bearing in mind all the Green detractors in this thread had their mind made up before they even went into coalition.
Rubbish. Even ignoring their U turns on tara, civil unions, poolbeg etc, the fact that they are still in their with Bertie following the total falling apart of his pre election bs means they've ditched their core principle of ethics in public office. Live on Planet Bertie, you seem to pick up the virus that infects FF, effects the eyes and ears from seeing the obvious.

[OneRedArmy]

Coalitions are based squarely on compromise.

By all means criticise the Greens on their net balance of what they have given up versus what they have achieved, but to criticise them for not adhering to all their manifesto issues and policies is frankly naive in the extreme.

We're back to whether its better to be on the inside chipping away or on the outside lobbing stones in. And again (Macy) you stated your view on this before the election.

[Macy]

It was hypocritcal then, it's hypocritical now. For what? A few new taxes that were going to be brought in anyway, and a free trip to Bali?

[dahamsta]

Coalitions are based squarely on compromise.Take off the blinkers boy, describing what the greens have done as "compromise" is roughly equivalent to saying that what Fianna Fail has done to this country is "mildly damaging". They've done a complete u-turn on their policies and ethics, if you can't see that you need new glasses.

[pete]

While FF may not actually need the Greens to enter government it would be very difficult for FF to survive all the recent scandals & the future ones relying on Independents. By this logic the Green Party are keeping this government together. In coalitions the smaller members always carry influence than their numbers.

So far I have yet to see a single significant contribution by the Greens that a FF Minister would not have done.

I am skeptical & I believe the VRT & motor tax changes will not mean a tax reduction of any significance to any one but just higher taxes for others.

[OneRedArmy]

Take off the blinkers boy, describing what the greens have done as "compromise" is roughly equivalent to saying that what Fianna Fail has done to this country is "mildly damaging". They've done a complete u-turn on their policies and ethics, if you can't see that you need new glasses.I think its evident from my posts how much I detest FF, but on balance I supported the Green decision to go into coalition in this Government (and accept the fact that that meant going in with FF) because the core platform on which the Greens operate is around improving the environment and that is a particularly time sensitive one (ie waiting 5 years wasn't a viable option).

As a Greens supporter I personally am unhappy at the net effect the party has had in Government after 6 or so months. I am however willing to wait for a while longer before I ram the nails into Gormley and Sergeant for dancing with the devil.

I think most Greens supporters, including myself, are well aware that the party will be decimated unless their influence and impact on the direction of Government improves soon.

[OneRedArmy]

I am skeptical & I believe the VRT & motor tax changes will not mean a tax reduction of any significance to any one but just higher taxes for others.Read the detail. Overall they are designed to be tax neutral (in the base year at least).

The failure to apply retrospectively is a HUGE mistake towards achieving an objective of reducing CO2 emmissions.

[Macy]

The VRT proposals have been flagged for years as the way around the illegality of VRT as a registration tax that restricts cross border competition. They get around that as it being a "green" tax. It was Mr Green himself Charlie McCreevy that first indicated that it would go that way.