U21s v England

[Dan K]

Anyone going to the U21s match against England at St Mary's in February?

Living in Southampton (and having a season ticket there) I'd love to go, but I'm not sure if there's segregation or anything, as if there is I'd rather be in with our fans than take my normal seat which I imagine would be in the England end.

Anyone going or know how it's arranged?

[stiofain]

Yeah i'll definitely be going to it. Has St Mary's been confirmed as the venue then?

[stiofain]

Oh yes, it has indeed. I'd been keeping an eye out for this.

http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2007/11/EngU21svIre_StMarys.htm

I've sent an email to the FAI asking what the story is for Irish fans so i'll let you know what they say.

[boovidge]

what did they say, stiofain?

[Sligo Hornet]

what did they say, stiofain?

I would like to know also.....thinking of going along to watch

[boovidge]

yeah i'd be keen to go but with the Brazil game next day it's a question of money really.

[stiofain]

Sorry for the late reply. Surprisingly, the FAI didnt reply to my email. I spoke to the Southampton ticket office the other day who said there will be no segregation in the ground. I ordered a couple over the phone but i cant imagine you'll have any problems at all paying on the day.
Really hope to see a few fans from the south of England come along to support our boys.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm going to try and make it.

[cheifo]

Hope we dont end up pillaging U21 squad(which looks strong atm) to replace withdrawls for Brazil Game.Be a shame for say Andy Keogh to be sitting on the bench v Brazil instead of playing against England.We could suprise them if we send out a strong team.

[eirebhoy]

It's pretty much the same squad that played England last time with Gibson and Keogh in. Gibson should replace O'Brien but I who would Keogh replace? Stokes and Rooney have an excellent understanding and Clarke played really well on the left of a front 3.

In fairness though, Gibson in for O'Brien should make a huge difference. O'Brien is an attacking winger and not suited to midfield in a 4-3-3.

/edit - forgot all about JJ O'Toole. We're certainly not lacking in central midfielders at this level.

[Stuttgart88]

Central midfield at U21 level looks very promising alright. Too many good players to choose from, tough to decide who is best.

I think that Andrew Keogh is a much better player than Adam Rooney, despite Rooney's good goalscoring record at all other underage levels. One is playing well for Wolves, the other is just ticking along at Chesterfield.

Keogh and Stokes could be a good pairing if he goes 4-4-2.

Left to right: S. Quinn - Garvan - Gibson - O'Brien (or maybe O'Toole CM, Gibson RHM).

O'Toole from the bench maybe, also Clarke.

[eirebhoy]

Yeh fair point about Keogh. It would allow Stokes to play more as an out and out striker too.

[tetsujin1979]

Rooney and Stokes are both out and out strikers, and could get in each other's way. Keogh is accustomed to playing the target man role and as such offers something different up front.


Left to right: S. Quinn - Garvan - Gibson - O'Brien
I'd go along with that. Playing players in their natural club positions?? It'll never work!

[Stuttgart88]

Playing players in their natural club positions?? It'll never work!
Yep, revolutionary thinking!

[cheifo]

Sorry lads but my unfortunate quirk of wanting a more defensive midfielder to partner the creative one has reared its ugly head again.I was watching c McCann against Arsenal and thinking what a midfield combo him and Garvan would make at u21 level.All academic because McCanns not in squad but it should'nt be.Anytime I have seen O Brien-which admittedly has'nt being much he has been a little disapointing.Stokes and Keogh up front would be very interesting imo.Good to see Quinn play against Man City.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, I too have been underwhelmed by Jim O'Brien's U21 performances. I'm not sure whether it's because the wide forward role in the 4-3-3 didn't suit him or maybe he's just not that good.

O'Toole would probably be a steelier option than Gibson and you could put O'Toole in with Garvan and play Gibson RHM, but although that's where he has played most for Wolves, is it really where we'd get the best out of him? I'd be of a mind to go with O'Brien because, as Tets says, it's where he plays.

It really is a tough call picking our best midfield from this lot, but unlike the senior team it's because most of them are good!

Is Gleeson even in the squad? Cregg doesn't even make it.

[eirebhoy]

Garvan, Gibson, O'Toole, McCann, Cregg, S.Ireland, J.O'Brien and McCarthy all 21 or under playing regular first team football. I'm sure there's a few more in the LOI too but haven't been following it.

[cheifo]

Did'nt know Cregg was still eligible.An embarresment of riches.:)
JJ o Toole seems to have a handy knack of scoring in his favour.I presume it will be O Dea and Keogh as CBs.Nolan at rb? and I cant remember option on other side.
I actually find this game more interesting than the senior one in lots of ways.

[eirebhoy]

O'Halloran.

[Stuttgart88]

O'Halloran I think.

[Stuttgart88]

I see Joe O'Cearuill has signed for Pats. I thought he played well against Bulgaria. Interesting to see how he gets on.

[cheifo]

Martin O Neill was very unhappy at Southampton not playing O Halloran in their last game as several clubs were looking fo him on loan.

[Risteard]

We could suprise them if we send out a strong team.

Not a chance in hell.
The quality isn't there in the first pace, Ireland u-21s play with no direction at all and the english team is full of premiership starters.

[eirebhoy]

Ireland u-21s play with no direction at all and the english team is full of premiership starters.
I raelly thought our U21s did really well on the ball in the 1st half against England. The best passing and link up I've seen from them at that level in a long time. We really looked the classier side imho. As soon as we lost the ball though they easily caught us on the break with our team of 4 attackers and a disorganised defence.

[Dr. Ogba]

I raelly thought our U21s did really well on the ball in the 1st half against England. The best passing and link up I've seen from them at that level in a long time. We really looked the classier side imho. As soon as we lost the ball though they easily caught us on the break with our team of 4 attackers and a disorganised defence.

would agree with that. there was some shocking poor defending (as well as goalkeeping errors) that night. Would also say that an effectively 3 man midfield with Stephen Quinn as one of the 3 was a pretty poor decision by Don Givens,was easily overrun when we didn't have the ball and didn't protect the defence enough.
I like Quinn as a player but, like his older brother, I think he's just far too lightweight to be playing as a CM.

[eirebhoy]

Probably true. He's more suited to the centre than Jim O'Brien though who was also part of the 3 man midfield against England. Crazy decision by Givens.

[Risteard]

Jayz, I can't believe ye lads.
The game at Turners Cross?
Ireland were completely over-run imo.

[eirebhoy]

Definitely not imo. 2nd half was poor but I thought we looked excellent on the ball in the 1st half.

Givens:
"It's never happened to me before, going 3-0 down and feeling like the better team."

I'd have to agree with that. I really did think we looked the classier team. As strange as that sounds going 3 nil down after half an hour. We just dominated possession in the first half and played decent football. England had 3 breaks and they took them.

That was their gameplan though. If they took the game to Ireland it they might have outplayed us obviously.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Brian Marwood was co-commentating for SKY. He pretty much said the same. 3 English attacks, 3 goals. They barely had to work for any of them.

First goal was an absolute howler by Randolph after 5 minutes. England's next attack was Noble capitalising on sloppy defending and even worse was Noble's shot which was deflected by O'Dea I think.

We played well enough but Hart played well in goal for England and most of our attacks were very laboured I thought. Stokes took too much out of the ball at times and was careless with his passing.

There were good parts in our performance but I thought the age gap showed. England were at least a year older than us in almost every position.

[NeilMcD]

Yeah I was at the game and I thought that Ireland played well but the system exposed the weakness down the right side on the defence. Agree with Stuttgart and Eirebhoy on this. I was impressed with a good few of the lads but the game could easily have been 3-3 at half time.

[jmurphyc]

I was hoping to go but I definitely won't be now. Will the game be on tv? I thought sky showed all England U21 games but may be wrong.

[deecay]

I thought sky showed all England U21 games but may be wrong.
They usally do,tuesday or friday night they were on

[boovidge]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12942,00.html

it's down on the schedule as U19

[Paddy Garcia]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12942,00.html

it's down on the schedule as U19

Yeah, that will be the Irish lads.

[eirebhoy]

Tommy Burns today:
“That meant he had to be patient again, but he’s not the only young player who has impressed. Jim O’Brien has been sensational in training with the first-team and was all set to play in a big game that got cancelled over Christmas."

I have to say he's never stuck out to me as a player with great potential. He's out of contract in the summer and will probably leave Celtic.

[GavinZac]

Definitely not imo. 2nd half was poor but I thought we looked excellent on the ball in the 1st half.

Givens:
"It's never happened to me before, going 3-0 down and feeling like the better team."

I'd have to agree with that. I really did think we looked the classier team. As strange as that sounds going 3 nil down after half an hour. We just dominated possession in the first half and played decent football. England had 3 breaks and they took them.
Delusional. That kind of statement was enough to call for his resignation tbh.

[RogerMilla]

Delusional. That kind of statement was enough to call for his resignation tbh.

classic , sounds like something stan would say

[Stuttgart88]

Just checking the trains from London to Southampton for Tuesday's game.

Getting there in time after work should be easy enough for me, getting home trickier.

Where in Southampton is St. Mary's?

Is Southampton Central the best station? How far is it from the ground?

The last train from Southampton Central back to London is 10.00pm (unless you take the slower train which takes 2.5 hours).

Is anyone driving back to London?

[GavinZac]

classic , sounds like something stan would say

I was embarressed to be honest. Its one thing that I wasted €50 to go to 2 games where Givens' team had not the slightest idea how to contain their opposition, another that myself and Micls were seemingly the only people in our stand who paid to get in, but to have that kind of drivel spouted flying in the face of the people whodid turn up and who did witness how pathetic the team was, its an insult.

though I did enjoy watching Portugal and had a good chat with some of their fans. Gave them discount tickets for the City game a few days later and the ones staying in the country seemed enthusiastic

[Stuttgart88]

I just find it irritating that our U21 team has long since ceased to be a team representative of our best U21 talent. Results have been crap as a consequence and it's demoralising. Furthermore it gives the likes of Roy Keane and Frank the Plank a reason to point that there's nothing coming through and that there's no reason to think the future is decent. It also gives Givens a tailor made excuse for poor results (ah sure my job is to develop individuals for the senior team not to actually beat Montenegro).

I'd like this team to be taken seriously again as I think being competitive at this level is probably a better way of building for the future than ad hoc promotions to the senior team. When U21 players are ready it should be obvious.

I read Andy Keogh saying that training with Robbie Keane was a big help to him so that's clearly the flipside.

[cheifo]

Italy,Portugal and France always seem to take underage tournaments very seriously(i.e. results do matter!).I would rather have someone like Shane Long gaining int experience and helping the u21 rather than sitting on the bench when someone like Clinton is as good if not better option.

[stiofain]

Just checking the trains from London to Southampton for Tuesday's game.

Getting there in time after work should be easy enough for me, getting home trickier.

Where in Southampton is St. Mary's?

Is Southampton Central the best station? How far is it from the ground?

The last train from Southampton Central back to London is 10.00pm (unless you take the slower train which takes 2.5 hours).

Is anyone driving back to London?

It does look a bit tricky alright. Apparently, its a half hour walk to the ground from Southampton Central station. The match tickets actuctally come with return bus tickets attached, presumably for the shuttle bus that takes fans from the station to the ground.

More info here; http://www.footballgroundguide.co.uk/

[jmurphyc]

I just find it irritating that our U21 team has long since ceased to be a team representative of our best U21 talent. Results have been crap as a consequence and it's demoralising. Furthermore it gives the likes of Roy Keane and Frank the Plank a reason to point that there's nothing coming through and that there's no reason to think the future is decent. It also gives Givens a tailor made excuse for poor results (ah sure my job is to develop individuals for the senior team not to actually beat Montenegro).

I'd like this team to be taken seriously again as I think being competitive at this level is probably a better way of building for the future than ad hoc promotions to the senior team. When U21 players are ready it should be obvious.

I read Andy Keogh saying that training with Robbie Keane was a big help to him so that's clearly the flipside.

I agree with you there. If we want our younger players to take the senior games seriously then surely getting good results the whole way down is the best way. If winning games is driven into them from the Under 15s upwards then they'll know that they can't just doss about when they represent Ireland.

Also, while training with Robbie Keane et al is beneficial to the younger players surely this should be a reward for good form and getting selected for your club and not just given to players with little or no experience at club level. If they know it's difficult to get into the senior set up then they'll surely work harder and strive to get into it and be more committed when they do arrive. The only reason a younger player with very little experience (unless there's no other option in his position) should be called up is for him to see what it's like training with the top players once and then the manager can explain to him that if he wants to make his squad place permanent then he needs to start getting games and putting in top performances for his club first and then he'll be considered.

[Deckydee]

Just checking the trains from London to Southampton for Tuesday's game.

Getting there in time after work should be easy enough for me, getting home trickier.

Where in Southampton is St. Mary's?

Is Southampton Central the best station? How far is it from the ground?

The last train from Southampton Central back to London is 10.00pm (unless you take the slower train which takes 2.5 hours).

Is anyone driving back to London?

Is this on TV? Sky Sports???

[jmurphyc]

Is this on TV? Sky Sports???

The question was already asked earlier in the thread. Yes, it will be.

[olegunnar]

If we want our younger players to take the senior games seriously then surely getting good results the whole way down is the best way. If winning games is driven into them from the Under 15s upwards then they'll know that they can't just doss about when they represent Ireland.

Also, while training with Robbie Keane et al is beneficial to the younger players surely this should be a reward for good form and getting selected for your club and not just given to players with little or no experience at club level. If they know it's difficult to get into the senior set up then they'll surely work harder and strive to get into it and be more committed when they do arrive. The only reason a younger player with very little experience (unless there's no other option in his position) should be called up is for him to see what it's like training with the top players once and then the manager can explain to him that if he wants to make his squad place permanent then he needs to start getting games and putting in top performances for his club first and then he'll be copnsidered.


After England failed to qualify, I read Trevor Brooking say that he felt U21-U18 squads should be picked as strong as possible, to develop the winning habit in players and the winning mentality in the International Squads. If the top players grew up qualifying for latter stages of Euro U18 comp, they'd have the belief they could beat the teams in later years.

So I agree with the last statement. Someone like Clinton is a seasoned pro, and a Shane Long type is often a bencher for Reading, so Shane could get 10 caps at u21 level, as a key player, and Clinton is an experienced option to spring from bench when needed, or start when needed.

[Closed Account]

Goalkeepers
Joe Hart Manchester City Darren Randolph - Charlton Athletic
Tom Heaton Manchester United Shane Supple - Ipswich Town
Joe Lewis Peterborough United
Defenders
Craig Gardner Aston Villa Eddie Nolan - Blackburn Rovers
Michael Mancienne QPR Richard Keogh - Bristol City
Joe Mattock Leicester City Joe O’Cearuill - Barnet
Nedum Onuoha Manchester City Darren O’Dea - Celtic
Ryan Shawcross Stoke City Stephen O’Halloran – Aston Villa
Steven Taylor Newcastle United Darren Dennehy - Everton
David Wheater Middlesbrough
Midfielders
Lee Cattermole Middlesbrough Stephen Quinn - Sheffield United
Tom Huddlestone Tottenham Hotspur Darron Gibson – Manchester United
Adam Johnson Middlesbrough Owen Garvan - Ipswich Town
Aaron Lennon Tottenham Hotspur Jim O’Brien - Celtic
James Milner Newcastle United John-Joe O’Toole - Watford
Fabrice Muamba Birmingham City Chris McCann – Burnley
Mark NobleWest Ham United
Jamie O'Hara Tottenham Hotspur
Andrew Surman Southampton
Forwards
Cameron Jerome Birmingham City Billy Clarke - Ipswich Town
Luke Moore Aston Villa Andy Keogh - Wolverhampton Wanderers
James Vaughan Everton Adam Rooney - Stoke City
Theo Walcott Arsenal Anthony Stokes - Sunderland

Likely lineups
Randolph Hart
Nolan Onouha
Keogh Wheater
O'Dea Taylor
O'Halloran Mattock
O'Brien Lennon
Garvan O'Hara
O'Toole Noble
Quinn Milner
Keogh Walcott
Stokes Jerome

Not much between those teams. I'd say Ireland have a good chance. However the fact that there are no recognised wide players(O'Brien, striker, Quinn, CM) in the Irish squad, I'd fear Ireland will play that gimp Givens's 4-3-3(4-5-1) defending formation which has been largely unsuccessful at this level.

[tetsujin1979]

Likely lineups
Randolph Hart
Nolan Onouha
Keogh Wheater
O'Dea Taylor
O'Halloran Mattock
O'Brien Lennon
Garvan O'Hara
O'Toole Noble
Quinn Milner
Keogh Walcott
Stokes Jerome

Not much between those teams. I'd say Ireland have a good chance.

Randolph is on the bench in the Championship. Hart has forced out the Swedish number one in the Premiership

Nolan was out on loan in League 1. Onuoha is in and out of the Man City starting XI recently
Keogh has been on loan at 2 League One clubs this season. Wheater plays regularly and has scored in the Premiership
O'Dea can't get off the bench for Celtic. Taylor is a regular for Newcastle
O'Halloran just made his first appearance of the season at Southamption. Mattock is a regular for Leicester in the Championship

Jim O'Brien just got a loan deal with Dundee United. Lennon is playing well for an attacking Spurs team
Tough call between Garvan and O'Hara, O'Toole and Noble, Quinn and Milner

I'd have Keogh ahead of Walcott at the moment, tough call between Stokes and Jerome.

Basically if we're going to get anything out of this game, it'll be down to the midfield. I'd rate England's defence ahead of our own, and the strike force is about the same.

[eekers]

haha there no way huddlestone wont be in that starting 11 posted above. he is englands u21 captain after all. interesting to see o hara playing against ireland :p

[Closed Account]

Steven Taylor is England U-21 Captain. Huddlestone and Cattermole started in midfield in the last England U-21 game, I just picked O'Hara and Noble in my own opinion based on form. O'Hara had been started ahead of Huddlestone who got drafted in as emergency centre half at Spurs. I agree with Tets view that the game will be won and lost in midfield. Players like Garvan and O'Toole should have something to prove against premiership players.