IFA lifts ban on Sunday Football

[dcfcsteve]

The IFA finally voted last night to lift their own 'Rule 42' - the sectarian ban on Sunday football that pandered to the religious interests of a minority of protestant faiths.

Shame it took them 60 years to catch up with the rest of the world, but at least it's happened.

[Not Brazil]

Delighted that this "rule of exclusion" has been removed.

[Lionel Ritchie]

boola bas.

Long overdue. :cool:

[EalingGreen]

A welcome and long overdue move, if for no other reason than that it has been increasingly "more honoured in the breech than the observance", with the Senior International team(!), senior Irish League Clubs, junior Leagues etc all playing on Sundays in recent years.
In fact, afaik, any NI footballer who played anywhere in the world on a Sunday (e.g. English Premiership) was technically ineligible for selection by the IFA for any of its representative teams!
Which means we had the ridiculous situation whereby the overwhelming majority who opposed the ban were castigated for its still being in the Rule Book, whilst the tiny minority who supported it weren't even seeing it enforced!
And how richly ironic that the "Never On a Sunday Brigade" were supporting a ban which is now only imposed in one other place in the whole of Europe - the Vatican!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20955768-5003460,00.html

[OneRedArmy]

Will anyone play regularly on a Sunday?

[Not Brazil]

Will anyone play regularly on a Sunday?

IL teams? I doubt it.

The fact is that the opportunity/choice to do so is now available.

Maybe some of the Junior Leagues will move games to a Sunday, thus allowing many who hitherto have been unable to attend IL games on a Saturday to do so?

[MyTown]

UTV carried a report last night suggesting Donegal Celtic and Newry Town were looking at a possible fixture on Jan 27 2008.

Anyone else feel this is related to a possible All Ireland League?

[dcfcsteve]

UTV carried a report last night suggesting Donegal Celtic and Newry Town were looking at a possible fixture on Jan 27 2008.

Anyone else feel this is related to a possible All Ireland League?

Errr..., no !!!

Why would it be ?? :confused:

It was just a long overdue change that the IFA tried to make a year ago as well. You're putting 1 and 1 together and getting the twelve times table.

I suspect the IFA are against an all-island league anyway, as it would most probably erode their posiiton and possibly begin their demise.

[Mr A]

UTV carried a report last night suggesting Donegal Celtic and Newry Town were looking at a possible fixture on Jan 27 2008.

Anyone else feel this is related to a possible All Ireland League?

Frankly, no.

[dcfcsteve]

A welcome and long overdue move, if for no other reason than that it has been increasingly "more honoured in the breech than the observance", with the Senior International team(!), senior Irish League Clubs, junior Leagues etc all playing on Sundays in recent years.
In fact, afaik, any NI footballer who played anywhere in the world on a Sunday (e.g. English Premiership) was technically ineligible for selection by the IFA for any of its representative teams!
Which means we had the ridiculous situation whereby the overwhelming majority who opposed the ban were castigated for its still being in the Rule Book, whilst the tiny minority who supported it weren't even seeing it enforced!
And how richly ironic that the "Never On a Sunday Brigade" were supporting a ban which is now only imposed in one other place in the whole of Europe - the Vatican!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20955768-5003460,00.html

Which senior IL teams have played on a Sunday EG ?

Interestingly, the IL still has to give its approval to any proposed Sunday games. Why they bothered to cling onto that one last vestige of the old rule I just don't know. Even if they don't say 'no' they shouldn't have to be asked in the first place if they don't have to anoint games on any other weekday.

There's a decent publicity opportunity here for whichever IL team decides to host the first Sunday fixture. They'll get much more media coverage than they'd otherwise get, and it should add a few curious spectators onto the gate to be part of an 'historic' event.

I suspect first-up would be rthe likes of DC or Newry - i.e. not a team with a protestant support-base, or in an area where the Free P's might turn up to breathe fire and brimstone like they did when Ulster rugby did their first Sunday fixture about 2 years ago.

[geysir]

It looks like it is a difficult task to make any change the IFA constitution, it requires a 75% vote in favour in order for any proposal to be accepted.

It can be a very long climb from the usual 2/3 to achieve a 3/4 majority no matter what Association is involved

[Mr A]

Which senior IL teams have played on a Sunday EG ?


Cliftonville played an away Intertoto game on a Sunday, I think Ballymena did as well. I think the NI team played an exhibition on a Sunday too.

[dcfcsteve]

It looks like it is a difficult task to make any change the IFA constitution, it requires a 75% vote in favour in order for any proposal to be accepted.

It can be a very long climb from the usual 2/3 to achieve a 3/4 majority no matter what Association is involved

Doesn't matter.

Even the GAA managed to let "crown forces" participate in their games and, shock horror, garrison games be played on their hallowed turf before the IFA stopped pandering to the whims of a minority within protestantism. They shot themselves in the foot by allowing themselves to be the last major sporting body on the island to modernise.

It just shows that there are still a significant number of dinosaurs involved in Northern Irish football ! Anyone who thinks that lot would vote for an all-island league any time soon are living on a different planet.

[dcfcsteve]

Cliftonville played an away Intertoto game on a Sunday, I think Ballymena did as well. I think the NI team played an exhibition on a Sunday too.

I know NI played in the US on a Sunday recently.

UEFA could've come down on the IFA if they had stopped an IL team playign an away Euro fixture on a Sunday. It was expected to be only a matter of time before FIFA 'had a word' with the IFA on the issue anyway, and they had the threat of court action from disgruntled individuals/clubs in the north hanging over their heads as well.

But there hasn't been a domestic fixture on a Sunday before, as far as I'm aware ?

[Not Brazil]

It just shows that there are still a significant number of dinosaurs involved in Northern Irish football

The vote to bin the Sunday ban was 91 to 14 in favour.

A "significant" majority.

[Not Brazil]

....and, shock horror, garrison games be played on their hallowed turf

I think you'll find that Rule (of exclusion) 42 is still, very much, in place.

[dcfcsteve]

The vote to bin the Sunday ban was 91 to 14 in favour.

A "significant" majority.

I agree with you.

But that still leaves 15% of the decision makers in the IFA being part of the 'never on a Sunday' brigade. Willing to let the views of a religious minority hold council over the sporting pursuits of the majority. Which is worrying.

Is it any wonder the likes of Belfast Celtic, Derry City, Lurgan Celtic etc have felt the need to raise issues re the IFA in the past, if even under current more favourable climate in the province a sizeable minority of the IFA are still stuck in the old days ?

For the record the GAA are no better, but I don't care much for them either.

[dcfcsteve]

I think you'll find that Rule (of exclusion) 42 is still, very much, in place.

Indeed.

And I think you'll find any proposal for soccer games on a Sunday in the north still need to meet the IFA's approval. So neither have been fully addressed.

I care not for the GAA anyway. My point was that even those dinosaurs made moves on their issues before the IFA did on it's.

[Not Brazil]

I agree with you.
But that still leaves 15% of the decision makers in the IFA being part of the 'never on a Sunday' brigade. Willing to let the views of a religious minority hold council over the sporting pursuits of the majority. Which is worrying.


The inescapable fact is that the religious dinasaurs were roundly defeated last night on the "never on a Sunday" issue.

85% of the decision makers within the IFA told them their day is over.

That represents progression and a move forward.

That, IMO, is to be wholeheartedly welcomed.

[waide]

Errr..., no !!!

Why would it be ?? :confused:

It was just a long overdue change that the IFA tried to make a year ago as well. You're putting 1 and 1 together and getting the twelve times table.

I suspect the IFA are against an all-island league anyway, as it would most probably erode their posiiton and possibly begin their demise.

It is long overdue that Sunday football has come to N i it was a ludicrous rule.It is my personal opinion that there will be an all ireland league of sorts in the not too distant future be it only a larger version of the setanta.The stumbling block to a proper all Ireland league would be the ifa and the fai would also be very much against it.

[Not Brazil]

Indeed.
And I think you'll find any proposal for soccer games on a Sunday in the north still need to meet the IFA's approval.


That is correct.

It also requires the approval of the two clubs involved.

Were the two clubs agree to play on a Sunday, the IFA will not stand in their way.

[geysir]

Doesn't matter.

Even the GAA managed to let "crown forces" participate in their games and, shock horror, garrison games be played on their hallowed turf before the IFA stopped pandering to the whims of a minority within protestantism. They shot themselves in the foot by allowing themselves to be the last major sporting body on the island to modernise.
It just shows that there are still a significant number of dinosaurs involved in Northern Irish football ! .
There are dinasaurs opposed to change in all walks of life.
Yes it does matter if the requirement is 2/3 or 3/4.
The GAA's vote scraped passed the constitutional requirement of 2/3, how long would we have had to wait for a 3/4 majority?
The IFA last time they had voted came whisker close to the 3/4 requirement.

[EalingGreen]

Indeed.

And I think you'll find any proposal for soccer games on a Sunday in the north still need to meet the IFA's approval. So neither have been fully addressed.


This need for "approval" to which you refer may be a technicality, on the basis that the fixture list, and any deviation from it (e.g. postponements etc) need to be "approved" by the IFA.

But in any case, there is no doubt that approval will be forthcoming as a matter of course. Otherwise, you wouldn't have had the Chairman of Donegal Celtic publicly stating this evening on BBC News that his club is looking to reschedule their January fixture with Newry City to the following Sunday - 7 months before the previous evening's Rule Change officially comes into effect!

P.S. The ban would have been lifted at a previous vote, only there was a spat on some entirely unrelated matters between a section of the delegates and the IFA Executive, which caused this disaffected rump to vote in protest against everything which the Executive had proposed, including the Sunday Ban, thereby causing them to miss the 75% of the vote needed by a bare handful of votes.

[EalingGreen]

I know NI played in the US on a Sunday recently.


Never mind our friendly in the USA last year, we were playing Sunday internationals as long as 25 years ago.

Then again, we were never going to fail to show up for one of our Group games in the 1982 World Cup Finals, were we? ;)



UEFA could've come down on the IFA if they had stopped an IL team playign an away Euro fixture on a Sunday.

There was never any question of the IFA even attempting to stop one of its IL teams from fulfilling a fixture. You compared the IFA dinosaurs unfavourably with their GAA counterparts in an earlier post, but in their defence, faced with the difficulty of securing a 75% majority for change (as opposed to the GAA's 66%?), at least the IFA was prepared to ignore frequent breeches of the ban as a pragmatic response, unlike the GAA, who were much more active in enforcing their respective bans - as the likes of Liam Brady could testify!

[dcfcsteve]

There was never any question of the IFA even attempting to stop one of its IL teams from fulfilling a fixture. You compared the IFA dinosaurs unfavourably with their GAA counterparts in an earlier post, but in their defence, faced with the difficulty of securing a 75% majority for change (as opposed to the GAA's 66%?), at least the IFA was prepared to ignore frequent breeches of the ban as a pragmatic response, unlike the GAA, who were much more active in enforcing their respective bans - as the likes of Liam Brady could testify!

As previously stated - i care not for the GAA. I'm happy to exclude them form any comparisons.

Botttom line is that it's good that the IFA has finally made this change, but absurd that it took them so long - regardless of the percentage required to secure the change.

Now hopefully they'll tackle the use of a divisive UK anthem for a team that is supposed to be representing Northern Ireland alone.

[Macy]

The GAA's vote scraped passed the constitutional requirement of 2/3, how long would we have had to wait for a 3/4 majority?
For a temp removal, at one ground only. They make the IFA look progressive.


It is my personal opinion that there will be an all ireland league of sorts in the not too distant future be it only a larger version of the setanta.The stumbling block to a proper all Ireland league would be the ifa and the fai would also be very much against it.
Obviously the Blazers are the main stumbling block, but the most obvious one that lets them off the hook is the different season calendar.

[Not Brazil]

Now hopefully they'll tackle the use of a divisive UK anthem for a team that is supposed to be representing Northern Ireland alone.

That'll be a matter for Northern Ireland fans.;)

[dcfcsteve]

That'll be a matter for Northern Ireland fans.;)

Yeah right.....! :eek:

[Lionel Ritchie]

Never mind our friendly in the USA last year, we were playing Sunday internationals as long as 25 years ago.

Then again, we were never going to fail to show up for one of our Group games in the 1982 World Cup Finals, were we? ;)
!

Did NI not play one of their games at Sweden 58 on a Sunday? I remember reading (possibly in a biography) that Big Ian wanted the team withdrawn from the tournament.

[EalingGreen]

Did NI not play one of their games at Sweden 58 on a Sunday? I remember reading (possibly in a biography) that Big Ian wanted the team withdrawn from the tournament.

How remiss of me! You are quite correct, LR. In fact, on their way to the Quarter Finals, they played their first two Group games on a Sunday - a 1-0 victory over Czechoslovakia (08/06/58) and a 2-2 draw with reigning World Champions, W.Germany (15/06/58)

[Dodge]

Don't get into the anthem/flag debate again lads.

BTW while we're on the GAA/IFA debate, fairly ironic that the Ulster delegates within the GAA were most vehemently against opening up croke park to anythign other than boxing, concerts and american football

[Not Brazil]

BTW while we're on the GAA/IFA debate, fairly ironic that the Ulster delegates within the GAA were most vehemently against opening up croke park to anythign other than boxing, concerts and american football

Indeed Dodge.

Even more stark, was the overwhelming rejection of all but one of the Northern Irish counties (Down, i think?) of the move to recind Rule 21 - a rule which procluded participation in Gaelic Games on account of ones occupation.:eek:

Of course, by comparison, the 14 dinasaurs (15%) at the IFA who voted to retain the Sunday ban is "worrying":rolleyes:

[dcfcsteve]

Indeed Dodge.

Even more stark, was the overwhelming rejection of all but one of the Northern Irish counties (Down, i think?) of the move to recind Rule 21 - a rule which procluded participation in Gaelic Games on account of ones occupation.:eek:

Of course, by comparison, the 14 dinasaurs (15%) at the IFA who voted to retain the Sunday ban is "worrying":rolleyes:

Stop trying to play a zero sum game NB. Both are wrong and both are worrying. I'm no sure how I could be any clearer in stating that I have no time for the attitude if the GAA either ?

The GAA being fcukwits doesn't stop the IFA from justifiably being labelled in the same way. The wrongs of one code in the 'sporting divide' do not negate, justify or over-rule the wrongs of the other.

[Not Brazil]

Stop trying to play a zero sum game NB. Both are wrong and both are worrying.

On the contrary, I find the fact that the dinasaurs at the IFA were roundly beaten on the Sunday ban issue - 85%/15% approx - to be a cause for celebration, not to worry.

By any measurement, that is an overwhelming majority.

It is a progressive step - no ifs, no buts about it.

Begrudgers will be saddened that they have one less stick to beat the IFA with.

[dcfcsteve]

Begrudgers will be saddened that they have one less stick to beat the IFA with.

Yawn.....

Get with the 21st Century fella.... :rolleyes:

[Gather round]

Now hopefully they'll tackle the use of a divisive UK anthem for a team that is supposed to be representing Northern Ireland alone

Congratulations for not including this in your opening post Steve ;)

PS credit to the dinosaurs, but look out for that meteo...

[Not Brazil]

Get with the 21st Century fella.... :rolleyes:

I'm delighted that the IFA has taken another step into the 21st Century with the removal of the Sunday ban.

I am very encouraged by the size of the majority to do so.

End of.

[Thunderblaster]

Did NI not play one of their games at Sweden 58 on a Sunday? I remember reading (possibly in a biography) that Big Ian wanted the team withdrawn from the tournament.

An Ian Paisley biography??:eek:

[dcfcsteve]

[B]
Congratulations for not including this in your opening post Steve ;)

.

:confused:

Congratulations on a thoroughly pointless post....

[janeymac]

There was never any question of the IFA even attempting to stop one of its IL teams from fulfilling a fixture. You compared the IFA dinosaurs unfavourably with their GAA counterparts in an earlier post, but in their defence, faced with the difficulty of securing a 75% majority for change (as opposed to the GAA's 66%?), at least the IFA was prepared to ignore frequent breeches of the ban as a pragmatic response, unlike the GAA, who were much more active in enforcing their respective bans - as the likes of Liam Brady could testify!

That was 30+ years ago :)

[David]

Now hopefully they'll tackle the use of a divisive UK anthem for a team that is supposed to be representing Northern Ireland alone.

Will ROI stop playing their national anthem at games? Will Italy and Germany and France etc stop playing theirs? If not why should NI stop playing what cannot be denied is their national anthem?

[Dodge]

Will ROI stop playing their national anthem at games? Will Italy and Germany and France etc stop playing theirs? If not why should NI stop playing what cannot be denied is their national anthem?

I know you didn't bring it up david so this is a general warning to others. The topic of anthems/flags at NI games has been done over and over on this forum.

Anyone who posts about it on this thread will be banned.

[David]

I know you didn't bring it up david so this is a general warning to others. The topic of anthems/flags at NI games has been done over and over on this forum.

Anyone who posts about it on this thread will be banned.

Interesting that dcfcsteve's post that I quoted went unchallenged yet when I responded then this warning comes out. :rolleyes: Can I suggest the removal of his post and I am happy for mine to be deleted?

[Dodge]

Interesting that dcfcsteve's post that I quoted went unchallenged yet when I responded then this warning comes out. :rolleyes:
The first thing I posted on this thread is leave the anthem/flag issue out of it. Which everybody did, bar yourself. To make sure no one felt persecuted I issued another warning. But you felt persecuted anyway. You might want to check a few things before you start rrolling your eyes


Can I suggest the removal of his post and I am happy for mine to be deleted?
Both posts, and both warnings stay.

[David]

The first thing I posted on this thread is leave the anthem/flag issue out of it. Which everybody did, bar yourself. To make sure no one felt persecuted I issued another warning. But you felt persecuted anyway. You might want to check a few things before you start rrolling your eyes


Both posts, and both warnings stay.

Not sure what your point is here. dcfcsteve complained about NI playing their own national anthem like other countries do and this went unchallenged by admin/mods yet when I respond there is a warning threatening bans. Can you not see the problem with that?

[geysir]

I can´t because I read post 31.

[gustavo]

Not sure what your point is here. dcfcsteve complained about NI playing their own national anthem like other countries do and this went unchallenged by admin/mods yet when I respond there is a warning threatening bans. Can you not see the problem with that?

Post 31 came after Post 25 ,I dont see your problem

[dcfcsteve]

Interesting that dcfcsteve's post that I quoted went unchallenged yet when I responded then this warning comes out. :rolleyes: Can I suggest the removal of his post and I am happy for mine to be deleted?

Can I suggest you overdose on a packet of Extra Strong Wise-Ups.....? :rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

Can I suggest you overdose on a packet of Extra Strong Wise-Ups.....? :rolleyes:

Coming from the poster who first brought up the subject of anthems on this thread, that's a bit rich!

Care for a Humbug, Steve? ;)

[dcfcsteve]

Coming from the poster who first brought up the subject of anthems on this thread, that's a bit rich!

Care for a Humbug, Steve? ;)

B'ah Humbug to your post...! :p

Still - you gotta laugh at David for crying to teacher like a big girl.....! :D