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eekers
26/11/2007, 8:57 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7114148.stm


Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland have agreed "in principle" to play a series of three biennial "Celtic Cup" tournaments. An agreement signed on Monday commits the countries to arranging the tournaments on a league basis.
Home and away games will be rotated from one tournament to the next with each team playing three matches in each of the competitions.
Commercial arrangements and fixture dates are now being finalised.

Fergie's Son
26/11/2007, 9:05 PM
Very surprising. Not sure if it is worth it. We should be playing continental competition.

Bottle of Tonic
26/11/2007, 9:12 PM
I think there is more use in this format than a couple of low key end of season friendly a la the tour to America.

End of season games are riddled with withdrawals and while the idea of a get together in the summer is right, in practice it doesn't seem to work.

At least there might be some sort of competitive edge, and it being in this part of the world a few more of the lads might be arsed to turn up.

eekers
26/11/2007, 9:16 PM
At least there might be some sort of competitive edge

Northern Ireland v Ireland in Belfast in July!!!

DmanDmythDledge
26/11/2007, 9:19 PM
Very surprising. Not sure if it is worth it. We should be playing continental competition.
Agree with that. We should be using friendly games to get more match practice playing against teams of that style of play, especially as we seem to always have difficulties against it.

gwhite
26/11/2007, 9:33 PM
It seems nice in principal but I think they should play the thing every 2nd year when there's no tournament on, e.g 2009, 2011 and also play the games in the space of 10 days or so. This lark of playing some of it in February and November is a load of sh*te.

eekers
26/11/2007, 9:49 PM
It seems nice in principal but I think they should play the thing every 2nd year when there's no tournament on, e.g 2009, 2011


"have agreed "in principle" to play a series of three biennial "Celtic Cup" tournaments"

pineapple stu
26/11/2007, 9:53 PM
I think there is more use in this format than a couple of low key end of season friendly a la the tour to America.

End of season games are riddled with withdrawals and while the idea of a get together in the summer is right, in practice it doesn't seem to work.

At least there might be some sort of competitive edge, and it being in this part of the world a few more of the lads might be arsed to turn up.
Agree with that. Sooner play Scotland in Britain than Ecuador in New York.

eekers
26/11/2007, 10:01 PM
Agree with that. Sooner play Scotland in Britain than Ecuador in New York.

it'll help our fifa rankings too, all 3 sides have higher fifa rankings than than recent summer friendly opponents

pineapple stu
26/11/2007, 10:04 PM
Won't help us if we lose though!

eekers
26/11/2007, 10:42 PM
Won't help us if we lose though!

i know but if we played ecuador or bolivia at the moment and won our fifa rankings would actually go down because their rankings are that low.

we have an average of 444 this year
a win against ecudor would be 428
a win against bolivia would be 279

at least playing scotland and northern ireland we give ourselves a fighting chance of getting some good ranking points out of friendlies

NeilMcD
26/11/2007, 11:02 PM
pointless tournament and crap trips.

shaneker
26/11/2007, 11:04 PM
I actually like the idea, its better than nothing, but will we not have enough on our plate in 2009 with Italy, Bulgaria and Cyprus et al on the horizon?

TheBoss
26/11/2007, 11:22 PM
At least we have a chance of some silverware. :D

stojkovic
26/11/2007, 11:36 PM
I would have thought that Springtime in the years 2008, 2010, 2012 etc would have been the intelligent timing of this tournament as we will all be playing meaningless friendlies having failed to qualify for that Summer's event.

But hey its the FAI and their like,so what do you expect.

Qwerty
26/11/2007, 11:50 PM
I can't see the players really getting excited about this, I think people's horizons have expanded and it will just seem too parochial and meaninglesss. We want to play Brazil, Cameroon etc not Wales FFS. It works great for rugby but not soccer. And the less times we play NI the better, I don't mind the players but the IFA and the supporters are just not very nice.

rebelarmyexile
27/11/2007, 12:06 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7114148.stm

We really need England involved to make the tournament sustainable. The Home Nations tournaments are nothing without a strong side. If the Republic ever reach previous form it should be a whitewash, but if England were involved it would make things interesting.

Does anyone know were England invited to play in it and turned it down or what? Having all the Home Nations would induce Rugby like rivalry which would be great.

LeviathanNI
27/11/2007, 12:07 AM
I can't see the players really getting excited about this, I think people's horizons have expanded and it will just seem too parochial and meaninglesss. We want to play Brazil, Cameroon etc not Wales FFS. It works great for rugby but not soccer. And the less times we play NI the better, I don't mind the players but the IFA and the supporters are just not very nice.

I can't see the players really getting excited about this, I think people's horizons have expanded and it will just seem too parochial and meaninglesss. We want to play Brazil, Cameroon etc not Wales FFS. It works great for rugby but not soccer. And the less times we play ROI the better, I don't mind the players but the FAI and the supporters are just not very nice..:rolleyes:

ifk101
27/11/2007, 8:19 AM
Interesting to note that only the FAI of the four football associations have published a press release about this "tournament" on their official website.

I personally think this tournament is a pointless exercise. What's to be gained from playing minnows such as Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales? They might as well throw Iceland and the Faroe Islands into the "tournament" and call it the "North Atlantic Minnows United by John Delaney Cup".

osarusan
27/11/2007, 8:59 AM
What's to be gained from playing minnows such as Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales?

They might well say the same about us.

You can talk about potential all you like, players in the premiership and all that, but the fact is that right now, most teams would prefer to play the Republic rather than NI or Scotland.

ifk101
27/11/2007, 9:04 AM
They might well say the same about us.

You can talk about potential all you like, players in the premiership and all that, but the fact is that right now, most teams would prefer to play the Republic rather than NI or Scotland.

Yes - we are minnows. And we'll never improve playing teams of a similar ilk.

We played Wales twice in the last year and Scotland twice in B internationals. And then we have forthcoming U23 internationals with Northern Ireland. How many times do we need to play them?

co. down green
27/11/2007, 10:23 AM
I would much rather we were playing decent continental teams. It would be much more beneficial trying to get to grips with the Eastern European styles and tactics.

Pointless tournament with no lasting benefits.

youngirish
27/11/2007, 10:30 AM
I agree that this tournament is pointless but not because of the competition as Scotland and NI have been far more impressive than us over the past year (even though I believe on paper we have far better players than both). I'd be more worried about the lack of interest our big players show for these sorts of games and the loss of confidence and embarrassment of getting hammerred by a full strength NI or Scotland team when the S Irelands, Finnans, Carsleys, Keanes and S Reids don't bother showing up for the games as on our trips to the States over the past few years.

Bondvillain
27/11/2007, 10:34 AM
Does anyone want to see us playing 3 trashy teams?

Can the average soccer fan even name 3 players between all of our competition? I doubt it.

While there would be more long term benefit in perhaps Ourselves and NornIron co-hosting a mini tournament with 2 decent Eastern European teams, I think there are several things wrong with your statement. There are SO many answers to it.... However, It's early, & think I'll just leave it at :

"No, of course it would be eminently preferable were the FAI to travel thousands of miles every year to tackle giants like the Mighty Bolivia & Equador. We would learn more, our superstars like Sean St Ledger & Joe Lapira would maintain their world famous status, our ranking would shoot through the roof, and all those South American boys are household names down in Ballyjamesduff"

Of all the moronic things that the FAI have done in the recent past, this is not the biggest crime.

Drumcondra 69er
27/11/2007, 10:39 AM
I agree that this tournament is pointless but not because of the competition as Scotland and NI have been far more impressive than us over the past year (even though I believe on paper we have far better players than both). I'd be more worried about the lack of interest our big players show for these sorts of games and the loss of confidence and embarrassment of getting hammerred by a full strength NI or Scotland team when the S Irelands, Finnans, Carsleys, Keanes and S Reids don't bother showing up for the games as on our trips to the States over the past few years.

There's the fundemental flaw in your arguemenent. They're far more likely to turn up for a game on their doorstep rather then flying off to the states for a week or 2.

I'm for the idea, be interesting and trips to Scotland and Wales are always good craic and cheap.

dynamo kerry
27/11/2007, 1:14 PM
in my office with 3 irish lads and about 6 scots (3 of whom attend all games) there is complete support for this.

we're all up for it and reckon the trips would be good craic. our players are no more likely to drop out than wales/NI/Scotland so it would balance out. Personally it would mean more to me to beat Scotland than the likes of romania or sweden.

If we have to have semi-serious friendlies, may as well be against teams we have something in common with.

anyway, I'd like the bragging rights!

youngirish
27/11/2007, 2:19 PM
There's the fundemental flaw in your arguemenent. They're far more likely to turn up for a game on their doorstep rather then flying off to the states for a week or 2.

I'm for the idea, be interesting and trips to Scotland and Wales are always good craic and cheap.

There's no need to go to the States. We could have home friendlies without the competitive edge playing better quality teams while experimenting with the lineups.

NeilMcD
27/11/2007, 2:54 PM
in my office with 3 irish lads and about 6 scots (3 of whom attend all games) there is complete support for this.

we're all up for it and reckon the trips would be good craic. our players are no more likely to drop out than wales/NI/Scotland so it would balance out. Personally it would mean more to me to beat Scotland than the likes of romania or sweden.

If we have to have semi-serious friendlies, may as well be against teams we have something in common with.

anyway, I'd like the bragging rights!



Rubbish trips rubbish matches, and rubbish players. A disaster for all concerned in my view. What is to be learned by playing other average nations who play similar systesm to us.

Who wants to go to Kips that are Belfast, Glasgow and Cardiff in non competitive games. Rubbish idea and I hope it fails.

tetsujin1979
27/11/2007, 3:01 PM
Rubbish trips rubbish matches, and rubbish players. A disaster for all concerned in my view. What is to be learned by playing other average nations who play similar systesm to us.

Who wants to go to Kips that are Belfast, Glasgow and Cardiff in non competitive games. Rubbish idea and I hope it fails.
Cardiff is not a kip.
This is only a rubbish idea if you treat it as a rubbish idea. Before the summer people were saying that the trip to the States was a rubbish idea, after it the same people were clamouring for the inclusion of O'Halloran and Potter on the basis of their performances in those games.
I don't see the likes of Dunne, Keane, Duff, etc playing in the Celtic Cup, but as a chance for the likes of Garvan, Whelan, Flood, etc to stake a claim for a squad place then it will be a worthwhile exercise.

NeilMcD
27/11/2007, 3:09 PM
Cardiff is not a kip.
This is only a rubbish idea if you treat it as a rubbish idea. Before the summer people were saying that the trip to the States was a rubbish idea, after it the same people were clamouring for the inclusion of O'Halloran and Potter on the basis of their performances in those games.
I don't see the likes of Dunne, Keane, Duff, etc playing in the Celtic Cup, but as a chance for the likes of Garvan, Whelan, Flood, etc to stake a claim for a squad place then it will be a worthwhile exercise.

I thought it was very tacky and full of hens and stag parties and tacky as hell to be honest.

Cymro
27/11/2007, 3:11 PM
Shame England aren't involved, but this idea is better than having friendlies that you get nothing from and are often terrible games. Not sure if it should be done as often as every 2 years though.

Also,


I thought it was very tacky and full of hens and stag parties and tacky as hell to be honest.

Stay at home then. I've read loads of messages on here from Irish fans saying they really enjoyed the trip to Cardiff.


Does anyone want to see us playing 3 trashy teams?

Can the average soccer fan even name 3 players between all of our competition? I doubt it.

If the average soccer fan hasn't heard of Bellamy, Keane, Gordon or (given his recent scoring exploits) Healy, I'd be surprised.

I am hearing a lot of negative comments about this. Give it a chance before you judge it. You might like it, you never know.

Bottle of Tonic
27/11/2007, 3:12 PM
There's no need to go to the States. We could have home friendlies without the competitive edge playing better quality teams while experimenting with the lineups.

Well thats the right idea to have with friendlies but I don't think it pans out that way in practice. No matter who we play the friendlies always seem to be made up of whoever hasn't pulled out, not an experimental line-up, the opposition normally don't give a hoot and we get false dawns like Sweden, Denmark and Kerr's much maligned world class friendly record at lansdowne. These days in int football friendlies are a nothing occasion, and only serve to actually get the squad together, do a bit of training, bonding etc. You learn damn all from the games.

I'd love to see us playing friendlies in Greece, Kazakstan etc too but can't imagine a situation where we'd benefit much from it for the real competitive stuff. At least playing our neighbours on our doorstep we might get a few more players showing up and I think a lot of the fans will like it too. The hardcore travellers who go to all games worldwide regardless will miss out on their trip but I think the more will benefit.

NeilMcD
27/11/2007, 3:41 PM
Shame England aren't involved, but this idea is better than having friendlies that you get nothing from and are often terrible games. Not sure if it should be done as often as every 2 years though.

Also,



Stay at home then. I've read loads of messages on here from Irish fans saying they really enjoyed the trip to Cardiff.



If the average soccer fan hasn't heard of Bellamy, Keane, Gordon or (given his recent scoring exploits) Healy, I'd be surprised.

I am hearing a lot of negative comments about this. Give it a chance before you judge it. You might like it, you never know.


Am I not entitled to my opinino on a website about my football team. I do not want to be playing other average teams who play the same sort of football as us. I also do not want to go to cities which culturally are not a million miles away from Ireland and in addition seem to be full of stag parties and hen parties and fast food joints etc.

Not my scene whatsoever, and I like travelling abroad to support Ireland. In fact I love it but I have an opinion here that is valid and I do not think there is anything to be got from this. There are only certain amount of international dates in the calender. These matches will not be in addition to what we have already but will replace, matches like the trip to Denmark in August or friendlies V Brazil in Croke Park or the friendly away to Poland a few years ago. We had an opportunity to use the renovation of Croke Park to get some good away friendlies that will help us heal our achilles heal and what do we do, we play N Ireland Scotland and Wales. There is so many reasons that this is not good for us. That is nothing against Wales, N Ireland or Scotland as, if i was a fan of theirs I would not be in support of a trip to Dublin either.

Its a close minded Cup for by a close minded organisations for close minded fans.

Drumcondra 69er
27/11/2007, 3:46 PM
I thought it was very tacky and full of hens and stag parties and tacky as hell to be honest.

You been out in Temple Bar at the weekend at any stage in the last 10 years?

Plenty of places in Cardiff that aren't full of hens and stags, it's just as a tourist you tend to end up in the same places that they do.

Bondvillain
27/11/2007, 4:14 PM
I thought it was very tacky and full of hens and stag parties and tacky as hell to be honest.

And all over Europe that's pretty much the argument for not coming to Dublin.

Pesonally, Id welcome friendlies against almost anyone in the top 75. We need all the practice we can get.

Dodge
27/11/2007, 4:23 PM
Just to confim, Cardiff is a kip.

It can't be viewed in the context of an Ireland away game though as the place is full of drunken paddies (I assume)

NeilMcD
27/11/2007, 4:27 PM
I agree its why I never would drink in Temple Bar either. I am seeing this from my point of view and I am not trying to be balanced and fair. I do not want this for personal reasons as the trips would not interest me but I also do not believe it would be good for the education of the players.

Dassa
27/11/2007, 5:28 PM
I can't see the players really getting excited about this, I think people's horizons have expanded and it will just seem too parochial and meaninglesss. We want to play Brazil, Cameroon etc not Wales FFS. It works great for rugby but not soccer. And the less times we play NI the better, I don't mind the players but the IFA and the supporters are just not very nice.



could you explain exactly what is wrong with me:mad:

Mayo_Bhoy
27/11/2007, 6:09 PM
I lokk forward to the Ranger's fans reaction to it being called the Celtic cup.:)

lopez
27/11/2007, 10:03 PM
I lokk forward to the Ranger's fans reaction to it being called the Celtic cup.:)Shouldn't this be called the 'Luton Cup'?

Isn't there a Celtic thread that this debate should be dumped in? :D

shaneker
27/11/2007, 11:55 PM
In keeping with the txt generation...the Keltic Kup?

sylvo
28/11/2007, 12:44 AM
Am I not entitled to my opinino on a website about my football team. I do not want to be playing other average teams who play the same sort of football as us. I also do not want to go to cities which culturally are not a million miles away from Ireland and in addition seem to be full of stag parties and hen parties and fast food joints etc.

Not my scene whatsoever, and I like travelling abroad to support Ireland. In fact I love it but I have an opinion here that is valid and I do not think there is anything to be got from this. There are only certain amount of international dates in the calender. These matches will not be in addition to what we have already but will replace, matches like the trip to Denmark in August or friendlies V Brazil in Croke Park or the friendly away to Poland a few years ago. We had an opportunity to use the renovation of Croke Park to get some good away friendlies that will help us heal our achilles heal and what do we do, we play N Ireland Scotland and Wales. There is so many reasons that this is not good for us. That is nothing against Wales, N Ireland or Scotland as, if i was a fan of theirs I would not be in support of a trip to Dublin either.

Its a close minded Cup for by a close minded organisations for close minded fans.

Couldn't agree more me old mucker, I thought Cardiff on that saturday afternoon was like all the chav towns outside London on a saturday night, can't say I was sorry to be on a bus at 5.30 after the match out of there and up to London, and agree can't see what the other teams will really get out of playing us end of season time also. Nobodys really going to get much out of it.

How you getting on, was looking out for you in Cardiff, but have to say was on a very quick visit there.

dcfcsteve
28/11/2007, 1:45 AM
Agree with that. Sooner play Scotland in Britain than Ecuador in New York.

Or maybe play Scotand in Scotland.......?

dcfcsteve
28/11/2007, 1:49 AM
We really need England involved to make the tournament sustainable. The Home Nations tournaments are nothing without a strong side. If the Republic ever reach previous form it should be a whitewash, but if England were involved it would make things interesting.

A bit pompous there Reb - ROI are not the be all and end all of Interbnational football ?

What if Scotland hit previous form and we don't ? Or hows' about the wee north - they're ranked higher than us at the moment. Again.....


Does anyone know were England invited to play in it and turned it down or what? Having all the Home Nations would induce Rugby like rivalry which would be great.

I can't see England - or, indeed, their fans - being interested in it. They are leaps ahead of the other 4 teams in terms of quality and would win it almost every year. Unlike the rugby, there's no French or all-island Ireland side to keep them in-check in this proposal.

Which 'Home Nation' does the Republic belong to by the way......? :o

I like the idea of this tournament. If only because it promotes Celtic solidarity.

osarusan
28/11/2007, 2:04 AM
I can't see England - or, indeed, their fans - being interested in it. They are leaps ahead of the other 4 teams in terms of quality and would win it almost every year. Unlike the rugby, there's no French or all-island Ireland side to keep them in-check in this proposal.

Agree about England team and fans not being interested, although I'm not so sure they'd be quite so dominant as you think, even thought they are the superior side. Over just 90 minutes, to use a cliche, anything can happen. Drawing at home to Macedonia would be an example of that.

One concern I'd have is a "well, we beat the English" mentality, meaning that relative success in this "Celtic Cup" could become a barometer of success instead of European / World Cup qualifying, which should be the real benchmark.

I'd be concerned about this kind of mentality even without England's participation. Bragging rights over teams marginally poorer than ourselves means little.

RogerMilla
28/11/2007, 7:47 AM
I can't see England - or, indeed, their fans - being interested in it. They are leaps ahead of the other 4 teams in terms of quality and would win it almost every year. .

yeah like they win every tournament they enter.....

Great idea , bring it on , if it does nothing but bring some pride back to our jersey i will be delighted

dcfcsteve
28/11/2007, 11:32 AM
yeah like they win every tournament they enter.....


Well - none of the 4 Celtic nations win any tournaments they enter either, and someone has to win this thing.

So who do you think would win it more often than not if England were included...? :confused:

youngirish
28/11/2007, 12:27 PM
Well - none of the 4 Celtic nations win any tournaments they enter either, and someone has to win this thing.

So who do you think would win it more often than not if England were included...? :confused:

England would struggle to win it more often than anyone else because:

a) Everyone would try harder to beat them more than than the other opposition

and perhaps more importantly:

b) They are pretty sh*te

You must be English if you think they'd walk it.

Lionel Ritchie
28/11/2007, 1:22 PM
I can't see England - or, indeed, their fans - being interested in it... I agree up to here and furthermore if I was the incoming England manager and there was even a hint their participation might be on the cards -I'd want it written into my contract that I could not be sacked, have my contract "terminated by mutual consent" or be removed from my post by any and all other methods, known and unknown, foreseen and unforeseen ....within an asses roar of a "Celtic Cup" match.

In short, an England managers head would be on the block pretty much every time a ball was kicked in this thing.

pineapple stu
28/11/2007, 1:29 PM
At least we have a chance of some silverware. :D
At present, it'd be a battle between us and Wales for the wooden spoon.


Or maybe play Scotand in Scotland.......?
Is it not going to be hosted in one country, so we could play Scotland in Wales? Thought I read that somewhere; maybe it was a pervious suggested incarnation.